Hi everyone :)

I am looking to buy a digital camera and after reading Consumer Reports, am more confused than ever.

I take high photos and digital art and blow them up for printing on art tile wall murals. Typical wall murals run about three feet by three feet and can go to eight by eight, and the resolution for printing must be 300 dpi. So it's urgent that I have a camera that can support this requirement.

Some other requirements interspersed with some questions :)

1. I like to take closeups, as well as wide shots....a good zoom and wide angle built in is important to me.

2. There is a new generation of 10 mp. Is 8 sufficient for my needs? Or should I go to ten megapixels? Is there really a difference?

3. Do I have to have the Nikon D200? Consumer reports says that the Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT is the best of its class, which includes that aforementioned Nikon. But I have heard that the Nikon is the best. Is this true? Or is the Nikon overly ballyhooed?

4. I prefer a camera that is easy to use as far as automatic settings. I do my postwork in Photoshop, so I rarely use the manual settings and easy-to-use is high on my list. Sixty eight mysterious buttons will give me cramps. ;)

Knowing these parameters (and I would ideally like to keep the purchase to 800-1000), what would you recommend for me? I greatly appreciate all responses and thank you in advance. :)

peapodgrrl

Hi peapodgrrl,

I'm barely above newbie level, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt. I'm sure some of the more knowledgable folks will chime in shortly (one thing I love about this forum, is the more experienced photographers seem to have no problem helping out).

For the 8mp vs 10mp, really I don't think there's much of a difference. Check this thread:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2668922

That has a link to a site comparing 6mp to 10mp, and even there the difference is visible, but not as much as you would think.

I was originally going to buy a Nikon D50 or D70. The D70 ended up being just out of my price range. So off to the store I went. The Nikon D50 was sitting next to the Canon Digital Rebel XT. Now, I've used Canon point and shoots for awhile now (started with the PowerShot A60, and ended with the A80) and was always very happy with the Canon cameras. Ultimately after playing with both the Nikon and Canon in the store, I changed my mind and went with the Canon, and so far I'm very happy with it! I've posted a couple times about noise, but really the shots I'm seeing noise in are very underexposed.

If you decide to go with Canon, I would say to go with the Digital Rebel XTi. I like what I see regarding the "self cleaning". Maybe it wont be perfect, but it might be a nice addition. It's not much more expensive I don't think. I would also recommend buying the body, only, and then buying a decent lens. I made the mistake of buying the "kit". I can't say the kit lens is horrible, but it's not real great either. I'm still kicking myself for not buying just the body and getting a better lens to start with.

That being said, I have no experience with the Nikon D200, but have heard good things about it. Course, I can't remember what those good things were :)

As for ease of use, I found the Rebel XT to be really easy to use. It seems to be as easy, or as complex, as you want it to be. It has a number of preset modes you can use (potrait mode, landscape mode, etc), as well as the normal P, Av, and Manual modes.

So that's my 2 cents, hope it helps at least a little. :)

-Melen

Given your price range there are a few good camera about. Ah, that in USD isn’t it;)

Also a quick note on MP's 6mp vs. 10mp might night yield greater images to the point that you sit back and go "WOW! that makes a huge difference; kind of like digital audio vs. analog. But at the sizes you want to print your images, the higher 10mp might be better because of the output/size for printing. Basically your going to get larger prints with more mp's in the consumer genre. So keep that in mind. You may want to research 6 vs. 10mp a little further before deciding.

OK....

Anyways I have a couple suggestions:

Canon EOS 400D-I actually own this camera and have nothing bad to say about it yet:) Maybe that could be classed as a bias comment considering...

Pentax K100, apparently very good for the price. Has shake reduction, very good if you have unsteady hands. I actually looked at this model before getting the Canon; I found it to be very comfortable and it is packed with all the features you would need.  The ISD, Pentax models are also worth a look if budget is a concern.

Nikon D50, I also looked at this model before getting the camera (also D70S). I was going to get this model before I heard about the Canon coming out. The build quality of the Nikons is heavy duty. Compared to my Canon, the Nikon comes out in front when it comes to durability.

My advice, like many others here will tell you, is to go down your local camera shot, drag out some models your interested in and start playing. I would also recommend you look into print sizes with the 6v's 10mp side of things. Also, don’t worry about all the extra features on an SLR. Most if not all entry level DSLR's have auto modes and your various shooting modes e.g. landscape, motion, portrait... Who knows, down the road you might want to start using those manual settings to your advantage:) Also before I finish rambling, because you prefer to do all your image adjustment in Photo Shop, its worth considering getting a camera that supports "RAW". Do a quick search on "RAW" files and post processing to get a picture of what I mean. If you already know all this stuff, don’t take offence in my presuming you might not know some of these things:)

Anyways, good luck with the purchase and hope you made sence of some of what I’ve written:)

Michael.

P.S. sorry about the overly bloated post lol.

@PPG;

Don't really know where to start with my response....but here goes;

1. If you plan on printing your images at 8 feet by 8 feet...AND absolutely require them to be at 300dpi....There is NO current digital camera that has a sensor to do this for you.  At 300 dpi and 96 X 96 inches in size, the sensor would need to be 28800 pixels by 28800 pixels in size....that is about an 829 megapixel camera!  I think what you will find is that images of that size are usually printed at 100, 72 or even less dpi....so, even at 72 dpi it would require a sensor of about 47 MP.  With up-resing software you might be able to get the 22MP Hasselblad or 16MP Canon to get you there....unfortunately at a cost in the tens of thousands of $....

2. If you decided on a 10MP camera with a sensor size of 3872 X 2592 pixels...without up-resing software, a 72dpi print will be 54 inches by 36 inches....at 300 dpi it would be 12.9 inches by 8.64 inches.....nowhere near your requirements!

So before we can go any further with your question, I think you need to re-visit your printing requirements.

@sans2012...please read the earlier thread on resolution myths....there is NOT a remarkable difference between 6MP and 10MP!

@PPG;  I just re-read your thread and perhaps I misunderstood.....do you plan to print your images at 8 feet by 8 feet...or do you plan to put up smaller prints on an 8 x 8 mural?  If the latter.....then what is the largest individual print size you plan to make?

@gradiant, please consider the fact that peapodgrrl wishes to print large images. This is where mp's come into play:)

To be honest I see a difference with 6-10mp;)

@sans2012....agreed, there is a visible difference....but it is very small.  But as I indicated in order to get twice the resolution you need four times the sensor size!  In addition, I think any visible resolution gain with the addition of 4MP is lost due to the fact that the 10MP sensor accentuates more noise because of tighter pixel spacing (remember the sensor itself is the same size).

With regard to printing....

A 6MP image at 100dpi...gives you 30 inches by 20 inches.

A 10 MP image at 100dpi...gives you 39 inches by 26 inches.

A 6MP image at 300dpi...gives you 10 inches by 6.7 inches.

A 10 MP image at 300 dpi...gives you 12.9 inches by 8.6 inches.

Only with dramatic up-resing would you gain a significant  advantage.

Thanks for the info gradiant;)

Michael.

You guys are awesome. Thank you SO much for taking the time to respond. You've given me a lot to think about.

I will answer more thoroughly when I am not passing out from lack of sleep. (Just finished an emergency website for a client).

Gradient...you are right. I use "alien skin blowup" to blow up my images for the least amount of lossy. :)

Hugs to you all,

PPG

Don't forget the excellent review site... http://www.dpreview.com/.   Some of the cameras have full reviews, in which you can view image samples at their original size. Might help for some sample prints.

 

@PPG;

I just had a look at "alienskin blow up" on their website....looks like a very interesting product.  I had heard of alienskin but had not heard that they produced up-resing software.  I will be looking into this product further.

The popular up-resing programs I have heard people use are Genuine Fractals and ACR itself.

Please tell us of your experiences using "blow up"....I'm sure many folks here would be interested in how well it performs!

Hi Gradient:-

I have Genuine Fractals, too, and used it prior to Alien Skin. But after having used both for a while, I can tell you that I prefer Alien Skin for a couple of reasons, first of which is that the image quality is better. I had some shaky images that customers ordered as murals, and Blowup came through beautifully, much to my surprised relief.

Another benefit: it automatically duplicates the image before blowing up, and you can blow up images that are layered. It also has a grain addition feature and a sharpen feature, very handy. And right before blowing it up, you can see the actual pixel preview of what your image is going to look like.

I also found that it works faster than Genuine Fractals, although both aren't going to win any marathons. Kinda ironic I would prefer Alien Skin, because "Genuine Fractals" has a name close to my heart. Most of my work is fractal-based digital art.:) (www.peapoddesign.net/gallery.html)

The advice given here has been really wonderful and very helpful. I must admit I have heard of "RAW" but don't know a thing about it. So thank you, I will be researching that. It's pretty crucial for me to learn this stuff anyway, and not for my own photography, but for others'....we do a lot of work for photographers and artists who want to print their own work on tile murals (gass, ceramic and stone) as well as coffee mugs and other gift and home decor products. I am just as anal about their work coming out perfectly as I am my own. :)

Thanks again, you guys are really wonderful. I am so glad I came here. :)

Warmly,

PPG

 

Attached Link: Kodak P880

Genuine Fractals is the one I've used, but just heard about AS's Blow Up as well. Looks good. LOL @ peapodgrrl, I read the same article as you. Not too easy to make a choice with that is it? You've gotten a lot of good advice, so now I will offer you mine. ;'P For around $300 you get a 8MP camera with good quality images, a nice wide angle lens with a manual 5.8x zoom, lots of control, easy to use, a 5cm distance super macro mode and so on... You never mentioned if portability was a factor, but with this you get an affordable quality all-in-one camera with a lens range that puts in it in a class by itself. AND it was mentioned in the consumer Reports artcle! :) http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/kodakp880/page15.asp Do your research and I'm sure you'll find the right camera for you.

Another affordable P+S one to look at is the Fuiji S9500. SLR styled looks and features similar to an SLR (in ways). Very compact and lightweight, 9 Mega pixels, 10.7x optical equivalent to say 28-300mm, 35mm equivalent,  ISO 80-1600, manual focusing, VGA, 30 frames/sec.

The list goes on...This camera feels really good in the hand. It is extremely small and lightweight and looks rather nice.

I promise that this will be the last camera I recommend:)

Michael.

@PPG;

Thanks for the info on Alienskin Blow-up.

Yes, I remember you from my fractal days ( very early in my gallery)...LOL!  I will have to have a peek at your gallery to see what I have missed.

Also, some good advice given to you from the folks here....there are many good cams out there.  Some further thoughts without getting into specific brands...as I think most of the more prominent manufacturers all have equal and very good cams ( some are Canon folks, some are Olympus folks, some are Nikon folks...LOL!);

1. I think your first thought would be to narrow down whether or not you want to go Point and shoot or DSLR.

P & S Pros; Ease of use, compact/lightweight, reasonably priced, ability to shoot video in some cases, generally good macro capability, very good depth of field, sealed fairly well so sensor dust is not generally a problem, most don't have 68 mystery buttons

P & S Cons; Most only produce JPEG images/most do NOT produce RAW images, small sensor size generally produces noisier images, generally very limited with respect to true "manual" shooting, most don't have a viewfinder...only the LCD screen to preview, most do not have the ability to change lenses or add filters.

DSLR Pros; larger sensor size generally reduces image noise, ability to shoot in different formats like RAW, ability to interchange lenses, generally they have full manual controls and much more flexibility to allow more image creativity, more sophisicated WRT focus point selection/metering mode selection/ISO selection/continuous shooting modes/flash capabilities etc

DSLR cons; Higher priced, heavy and bulky, no video capability, some have sensor dust issues, additional lenses are very expensive, much more limited depth of field, 68 (or more) mystery buttons!

I'm sure others can add to these pros and cons but once you've decided on your cam's format then you can go on to the next step and identify the best model and manufacturer to suit your needs.

Actually, there is such a broad range of P&S's that Cons are not necessarily the same for all P&S. Definitely decided wether you want to go DSLR or P&S, but remember that there is a lot of variety in the point of shoot realm as well as a lot of value for the money. And the higher end ones normally have a RAW format capability these days. Noise is nigh undetectable on my C8080 images...at the lowest ISO settings of course. AND I can go full manual and filters if need be. ;] Just know what you are getting before you buy.

@Kort....yes, agreed.  I guess really there is a model level between what I had called the P & S and the true DSLR.  Most of those would give you full manual control, ability to add filters, less noise than smaller sensored P & S, viewfinder, and 68  mystery buttons...LOL!

Yeah, but the low prices DSLR all but killed the prosumer category. A sad thing in my opinion. The Sony R1 is probably the cream of the prosumer crop sensor/lense/image quality wise. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscr1/