I'm a little surprised at some of the posts about Victoria 4. People are upset that they cannot use their favorite V3 textures on V4. They're annoyed that they cannot use their best V3 clothing on V4. What are they going to do with their significant investments in V3? This may seem overly simplified, but why not keep using V3?

I'm a Platinum Club member, so getting a free V4 simplified my question of when I'd pick up the figure. Eventually, I'll buy the morphs and a better texture. When clothing is at the right price, I'll get some V4 clothing. Till then, I won't be using the figure much. My workflow, for a while, has been to use the figure that has the right look and clothing for the image I'm creating. V4 has some nice new features and works well in Poser 6, so there's no question that I'll someday be using that figure more and more. V4 isn't a huge quantum leap over V3. The differences between the first Victoria and the P4 female were more dramatic. V4 is a much bigger jump over V3 than V3 was over V2. None of the improvements invalidate the earlier models. In a lot of images, the advances from one model to the other make no difference. The distance of the figure and the pose being used may be perfectly adequate for a V2 figure and doesn't require the improvements in the later figures.

For me, V4 is one more Poser figure. I have little doubt that V4 will soon have thousands of support products available before the end of 2007. I'm sure that there will be unique things available for the figure that will have me using it.

When I see all the emotional angst and frustration over V4's release, I'm kind of reminded of an old Steve Martin sketch where an escalator broke down and people were trapped on it for days because they couldn't figure out how they used to get to the second floor before there were escalators. There was a way to create Poser art without V4 and there still is. If somebody has a favorite V3 texture or clothing item, feel free to use it on V3. I promise to not snicker at anybody using an older model. After all, I've got V2 and M2 figures in my gallery and even one with the P4 male. Each was adequate for the illustration I was creating.

Try to remember that it's not the tools you use that create art--it's what you do with those tools.

It's most refreshing to see such a reasonable view in among all the frenzy.

Well said, Gagnonrich. As you said, I tend to choose the figure that best fits the bill for the image in my head. Vicky, Judy, Jessi, Mike, James, Don, Apollo (and Kelvin and Koji, as well, of course)... each fills a particular niche and style.

The thing that I find interesting is looking at the V4 Pro bundle's price. A year ago, people were up in arms about the 'high pricing' of Anton's Apollo Maximus at 90 dollars (brought down to 70 by this time last year, if memory serves) - but that single package came with morphs, textures, and even (if you picked the the 2006 bundle) clothing and some other funky stuff. Now looking at the various 'bundles' on offer (Basic, Complete and Pro), the base apollo 2006 package comes somewhere between Complete and Pro in what it offered. Pro is - or rather will be, after the introductory offer - retailing at just shy of $100. And as people on here have stated, a lot of the morphs are missing from that package. Yet no one has yet (so far as I've noticed) batted an eyelid at the price.

Have things changed so much in one year that charging (almost) twice as much money for less product is the norm now?

jonthecelt

Ha, you think this is bad, just wait till P7 comes out.  This board will be flooded with complaints, whining and freaking out as if it's the end of the world.  I've already seen the preview of it and that was even before Reason #1.

Great post, **gagnonrich! ** What is such a reasonable and moderate post doing in this forum, anyway?  :)

I suspect that when I finally get the full V4 morphs, textures, and clothes, I may still use V3 for some renders.  V4 will most likely bend better for pics requiring that, and V3 may be the choice for others based on the textures, outfits, and morphs I have for her.  Or, both might wind up in the same pic, because it will probably be easier to create 2 different faces/bodies - almost like the real world, where different people don't look like a mere morph of the same default body.  

sheesh, why not both? Does V3 turn into a pumpkin if you use V4? (I'm sure someone will make a morph for that..;) IRL, if you run a modeling agency, you hire more than one model, right?..;) Use 'em both..

'nother thing that puzzles me..at the time I'm typing this, V4 isn't even 2 days old. How do we know so much so fast? Everything has a learning curve..give it some time...

I'll avoid the money trap.  Now I've got V4...... oh great this is out, this is made for her, let me get it!  Eghads....... I'm already getting vertigo.

I have stephanie, david, M3, and other figures, grabbed them up quick so excited to have something new......... but those have precious little support.  SInce I'm not a genie, nor can see the future, I'll wait to see if V4 is supported.  Even then, V3 works fine for me, and other than a few pose problems I could fix with postwork, I dont see the need to drop more cash on the latest thing.

I was heated to say the least, when the V3 I spent through the nose for (M3 too for that matter) was then unexpectedly offered for....... you guessed it ....... FREE.  

Now I'm getting smart, and hindsight is 20/20.  I can wait, for as long as it takes until its either free, uber supported, or marked down to cut rate.

I've been doing fine so far with v3 and the gang, and with poser 6.  I'm not convinced yet (nor will I be) that I need the "new and improved".  I'll wait for ratings on poser 7, and see what the complaint list is before I even seriously take a look at it.  My money is better spent this season on presents lol., than the "latest and greatest"

**I am a PC member, but I do not see where V4 is free to PC members?  Ok I found it.
**

The V4 base is free for PC members.  You'll see the price as "free" if you login at DAZ (if you are PC member).

Quote - 'nother thing that puzzles me..at the time I'm typing this, V4 isn't even 2 days old. How do we know so much so fast? Everything has a learning curve..give it some time...

Great post Gagonrich, and Pakled :)
Reminds me of a phrase a friend of mine uses often.... Some people jump on conclusions faster then Ice-cream slides off a hot griddle!!!

It's not like we have to give up V3 or something else just because V4 is here. Unless our goal is to keep up with the Joneses, that is! ;)

I agree whole heartedly! Who said anything about giving up V3? I'm not and as far as V4 is concerned she is just another tool in the tool box like A3 and M3. For the longest time I had V1-V3 loaded up with all the trimmings. I like V3 and will continue to use her but I also am liking V4 as well. My gosh  V4, the poor thing, has only been out a few hours give the content creators time to get things rolling before you start going charlie. smiles

YOu are so right. I have no intention of not using V3. I bought V4 as an experiment and because I am a PC club member. We can use all our Vickys, Posettes and Judys. Why just use one figure?

I remember the same thing when we went from V2 to V3. E

Based on what I have from DAZ, I'd say a big part of the problem is that DAZ do a bad job of documenting their products. They bring in something new, and pretty much leave you to figure it out for yourself. There's a tutorial for V4, aimed primarily at DAZ Studio users, and it's hard to find. There's the eyebrow change, and it's reported that the people who created the first skin textures just painted eyebrows on the texture, a P4 solution. So it doesn't matter which pair of figures you point to. It doesn't matter how big the improvement is. As long as DAZ produce poor documentation of the new features, and leave content creators apparently muddling through, I'll be reluctant to upgrade. There's stuff in V4 that does look good. But if DAZ can't explain it to us when we pay them, why bother finding the answers and posting them for free? Why are we doing DAZ's job?

My V3 and A3 have become non-functional working since V4 was released!  Boo-hoo!!

M2 and V2 have made a barricade in the props folder and won't come out. Dork has disappeared. Posette and Aiko have made an alliance - they're lurking in dark corners together, wearing camouflage and carrying unfeasably large weapons...

Well it is just a matter of transition process. As far as I remembered V1 and V2 clothings don't fit on
V3 as well and I used all of them, until last year when I decided to free up my hard drive space by
deleting V1 and V2 stuff and focus on the V3 figures and stuff. It's just a matter of time before I switch from V3 to V4 because I think (even though I don't have) V4 is a better product.

I am pleased enough with V4 that I am going to convert over entirely - to me it's not a really big change as I've only been obsessed with Poser for a pretty short time and I don't have that much to un-learn anyway.  I've avoided buying much in the way of conforming clothes because generally they are too recognizable for what I want to do, and my assortment of dynamic clothing I'm comfortable with resizing and reshaping to V4.  Some important things have yet to be released, and I'm still annoyed about the name "Full Morphs++", but I have little to lose in moving away from V3 in my situation because I'm such a nub.  

V4 is just tremendously easier to work with for me.  For people just getting started with Poser I'd recommend they just start with V4 and spare themselves some learning curve.

*"V4 is just tremendously easier to work with for me.  For people just getting started with Poser I'd recommend they just start with V4 and spare themselves some learning curve."

I've been in Poser a long time, and have a fairl amount invested in V3 - but she has been totally vaporized just tonight. I put in a shiny new P7 install and took a hard look at my runtime setup and started over.

V4
Miki
Daz Dragon
A3
G2 Males
Sydney G2 (P7 female) looks to be a real winner

That about covers it for me right now. All the old dead wood is gone. Honestly V3 never worked out for me anyway. Too hard to modify, too ugly, too expensive to try and fix. A3 was better, and Miki better than that for some things.

Well, some of the V3 outfits do have useful accessories. You can use the BFGs even if the combat swimsuits don't fit V4. An interesting thought: I've used the Project Z set a few times, and it has options for V2 and V3. For V2, you have textures for the catsuit. For V3, you apply textures to V3 and use the Spandex morphs. Both approaches work. Now, I don't expect this item to be updated for V4, although if there were a UTC plugin for V4 I could try the texture method. But does the full version of V4 have anything like the V3 Spandex morphs? And there's not a catsuit yet. You can get wrist and ankle effects with displacement mapping, but you can't get the effect of fabric over the breasts so easily. That's one example that shows why I think dropping V3 is a little premature. But surely you can access your old P6 runtime from P7. (At least the Wardrobe Wizard support is there, now. And the V2 catsuit does seem to convert well. I've used it for Miki, A3, and Furrette.)

I got V4.  Like V4.  Still like V3.  Don't see any reason for an all or nothing attitude at all.  V4 may eventually replace V3 the way V3 replaced V2 but I think it will take longer than the V2 to V3 swap.  Either way, I still have a lot of use for V3 and I am sure I'll have a lot of use for V4.  While the Wardrobe Wizard is not a perfect solution, I've had really good results with it more often than not.  When I think of an outfit I'd like to see on my V4, I'll attempt to convert it.  Worse that will happen is it won't work and I'll have to think of something else. 

I really don't understand what people are getting so up in arms over though.  The drama in this community (as a whole, not confined to this site) never fails to both perplex and amuse me.

Would I be wrong in concluding that PhilC will probably release an update to his Wardrobe Wizard?  Or is V4 so different that it's impossible to use any other clothes?

Check his forums, I believe he already has it done.
www.philc.net

BTW: Has anyone noticed that V3 isn't free anymore? even for PC-members! Although it is still anounced as free, when you add it to your cart, you get charged for $29,95 (- 30% for PC-members)
I believe they did the same with V2, which isn't free either.
So if anyone wants V3 for free: you're too late! V4 is the new kid in town.

Oh, and that's right PhilC made a V4 addon for his wardrobe wizard, works fine so far...

What I meant to say with this is: Is doesn't matter if we like V4 or not, DAZ follows his own plan and why shouldn't they? They spent a lot of time and money in a new model and they will have to make some profit out of it. So I don't think there won't be much new merchandise for V3 in the DAZ-shop soon.

But despair : The wardrobe wizard also works the other way around. You can also change your V4 outifit or Hair to V3.

GREAT post, gagnonrich... I enjoyed your common sense!

Quote - ...The thing that I find interesting is looking at the V4 Pro bundle's price. A year ago, people were up in arms about the 'high pricing' of Anton's Apollo Maximus at 90 dollars (brought down to 70 by this time last year, if memory serves) - ...
Have things changed so much in one year that charging (almost) twice as much money for less product is the norm now?

jonthecelt

I approached the bundle pricing a little differently. First, as a PC member, I think it cost me only 50? (Without any vouchers, etc., just added PC member % discount). V3, when I bought her almost ?3? years ago, cost about 100 base, and another hundred for mats and morphs. YIKES!  Now, daz later made the base model free (about a year later?) and I woke up one day with $100 in vouchers. And there are a billion mats, hair figures, clothes, etc etc etc all in support of V3.  So I've got a pretty good idea of the usability of that initial investment. On the other hand, I've gotten Miki and Koji (and now Calvin). I think they are great characters with a lot of potential but overall they are a disappointment because of a lack of off the shelf add-ons. The secondary market is geared toward the Mil figures, mostly the Victoria line. So, once again, when I put out 50-100 for V4, I know there is a strong secondary market .

I thought Apollo would make a great figure, but the first thing I did was look at available wardrobe, etc. That was a deal killer. One good thing, however, P7 has universal pose ... I think that will help all the non Mil figures sell a little better ... at least all the Mil figure poses already purchased can transfer over better to the other figures now.

Stopping the Free offer on V3 isn't really so surprising. It's always been a special. But they've reorganised the categories for the store. It feels a bit confusing at the moment--the only "Millenium Figure" seems to be V4.

I paid only $13.98 for the V4 Pro Bundle, after all discounts and vouchers were applied.  And as Vremont said, you know with V4 there will be a ton of support, including many freebies. 

Well, I still like V3, will use her, will use V4 because she really does look different (she has a bit of the sweetness of Posette that I have missed with all the previous Vickies) I will continue to use David, StephPetite, Aiko, LaRoo all of the above :)

I'm an artist and the more tools at my disposal the better I like it. :)  I'm sure I will use Sydney when I get P7, she looks great and yet another tool for me ;)

It doesn't have to be an either or, but I have a feeling that most of the merchants will jump on the new bandwagon and we'll see support for V3 dwindle to almost nothing.

I hope not, but I have already heard of several well known clothing makers that now that  V4 is out, they will be supporting her only and not V3.

If we, the buying public don't want it that way, we need to speak up NOW.

Very good post gagnorich :)