Well people, I'm totally frustrated with V4. Where are all the morphs?!!
Now, I have the full morphs from Daz but there are important ones missing which V3 had. Am I blind or are there not seperate morphs for the muscle groups, ie triceps, abductors, deltoids, hamstrings, obliques etc? Now I know you could use the overall muscle dial but no, that's not the point. I need to individually morph my character!
I have V3 NG2 & she totally blows V4 away with her morphs. Damn I'm angry. Please somebody tell me I'm missing something as I'm very tired.

which version did you get ?

markschum - I have the full morphs.

Another thing which I miss are the nationality & race morphs for the face.

Did you drill around on each limb?  I also noticed that there were almost no individual muscle sliders on Body but I didn't have time to check individual body parts.

Quote - Another thing which I miss are the nationality & race morphs for the face.

I agree, although there was a branch on either Head or Body that appeared to give you a subset of the same thing, just with girl names instead of "Asian1/2/3" and a much smaller selection (like 6).  They were very ethnic-looking though, the first one was very obviously Asian of some category (looked sort of Chinese to me).

I was hoping that I could recreate my favourite character creation (she's on my avatar) onto V4. This now looks impossible beacuse I don't have the same morphs. Does anyone know how it could be possible to transfer a V3 head onto the V4 body?
Sorry folks for my negativity, it's just been one of those days.

I think the nationality & race morphs are the character presets.

12/8/06

Stormchaser:

I agree, looking at the list of morphs at:

http://www.daz3d.com/store/item_file/4781/1.html

It appears that a lot of body morphs have been left out. These were the morphs that made the V3/D3/M3/S3 figures more usable than the Poser figures and the G2 figures. Does anybody know how to recreate these morphs and inject them into a figure. V4, without the morphs I prefer, is no improvement at all. V4 cannot match the earlier figures in body diversity. Poser 7's paint brush morphs may breath new life into the older figures anyway. I see no reason to spend a dime on this figure, or her content.

LMK

Stormchaser - My understanding is that the V4 muscular morphs will follow shortly after the release of V4 and have the same controls as V3.

I thought I might have been going blind again perusing the morph list.  Seems like I wasn't, if they aren't actually there.  I'll wait until V4 morph packs are in the $1.99 price list, a year  from now. XP

12/8/06

PXP:

"Stormchaser - My understanding is that the V4 muscular morphs will follow shortly after the release of V4 and have the same controls as V3."

Hi. Do you have an idea on time frame, and cost?

LMK

lkendall - I'm glad somebody sees it the same as I do. V3 had so many morphs that I loved creating characters with her as she was so usable, so diverse. Let's hope as you say that the new morphing tools in Poser 7 can give us that little bit extra to work on the figures, I hope so as I will continue with V3.

PXP - Thank you, that is great news!!

That's not good news to me, that's really irritating.  "Full Morphs++" does not imply "A lot of morphs missing, and a separate upcoming package with what you expected in the first release, for more money."

pjz99 - Very true, it really isn't right is it, all the morphs should have been released in the initial package. This has caused unnecessary aggro.

i miss the ethnicity morphs more than anything...very frustrating, as you said, to pay for a pack that said full morphs and not get morphs that came with v3, even

Was there, or was there not a full list of the morphs published before you bought?  And even if there wasn't, surely you could have insisted on one before forking overyour money.  As it's turned out, you've all bought a pig in a poke, without throughly seeing and examining it before hand, without weighing and evaluting its innate value, BEFORE you handed over your hardearned money.

But, of course, you've got thirty days to request a refund. Maybe.  And what kind of a song and dance will THAT entail.  In ther meantime, your money is in DAZ pocket, and their inferior product is on your hard drive.  And all because you insist on running lemming-like after the newest and shiniest item to come down the turnpike.  Shame for worshiping the Golden Calf.

Now you're all lwft with half-promises and understandings.  Good luck on getting your customer satisfaction.
Dzhugashvili's Gerbille

It seems that we're back to the old DAZ bait and "more that makes it useful" comes later.

We went through this with V3 and I won't even mention DAZ|Studio where you have to fork over significant cash to get something as useful as Poser.

That said, I'm impressed with a lot of things in the package that do seem quite useful and, certainly, welcome.

I'm not impressed with the documentation, "tutorial" on DAZ's site and the lack of the morphs mentioned.

Oh, well.   So far so typically DAZ.

I'm waiting for the flood of add-ons to correct the stuff left out.

ttfn

John

Quote - Was there, or was there not a full list of the morphs published before you bought?  And even if there wasn't, surely you could have insisted on one before forking overyour money.  As it's turned out, you've all bought a pig in a poke, without throughly seeing and examining it before hand, without weighing and evaluting its innate value, BEFORE you handed over your hardearned money.

Dzhugashvili's Gerbille

Yes, there was a list....However...the morphs have character name...Sorry...but a morph called "Kerstin" doesn't tell me very much about how the face will look...and until you buy it and fool with the dials, you don't know what they do.  I don't know any other way to evaluate the product than by using it, or at least trying to. ...

The more I hear the more nervous I get simply because so many of you have much more experience then me.

I'd have to disagree about DAZ Studio  though.  It's my only software, and I can use models all the way through Poser 6 typically without problems, and the studio is not only free but so are the new versions.  It's only because someone pointed me to the DAZ site and the free studio product that I got into 3D rendering at all.

It's allowed me to spend what little money I have to play with on things like characters, clothing, etc. 

I'm pretty happy with the Studio's versitality,  and for relativily new artists who don't have alot of money to invest it's wonderfull, and they're kind enough to offer both support and upgrades to the latest versions for free.

Just thought I'd put in a good word, I may complain occasionally about the prices but I do think they have alot to offer.

Quote - > Quote - Was there, or was there not a full list of the morphs published before you bought?  And even if there wasn't, surely you could have insisted on one before forking overyour money.  As it's turned out, you've all bought a pig in a poke, without throughly seeing and examining it before hand, without weighing and evaluting its innate value, BEFORE you handed over your hardearned money.

Dzhugashvili's Gerbille

 

Yes, there was a list....However...the morphs have character name...Sorry...but a morph called "Kerstin" doesn't tell me very much about how the face will look...and until you buy it and fool with the dials, you don't know what they do.  I don't know any other way to evaluate the product than by using it, or at least trying to. ...

In other word, you're a merchants deream -a soft touch.  You really can't think of a way to evaluate a product before buying -well I can! 

Before buying, insist that they post a render of every single morph, and just how it affects the body part in questioin.  Sure it's a hassle for them, but they're the one trying to get you to part with your money, not visa-versa.  You're doing them the favor by buying, not them doing you the favor by selling.  Be hard-nosed!

REMEMBER: They want your money a lot more than you want their product (or at least that should be the  way you approach business with them.

Dzhugashvili's Gerbille

are they missing from the "pro bundle" too?

Dont know about the pro bundle but I for one will wait awhile before parting with any money. I like what I have for free as a plat member this V3 is working ok for me. I do notice a serious lack of facial morphs though. and it is hard to tweak clothes to her with the existing morphs either because they are not right or because I haven't learned to use these new morphs.

laztspark wrote; "I do notice a serious lack of facial morphs though." Actually V4 has more facial morphs than the original V3. Coldrake

stormchaser and Ikendall, y'all were both in the previous thread about this...

Quote -
**I was hoping that I could recreate my favourite character creation (she's on my avatar) onto V4. This now looks impossible beacuse I don't have the same morphs. Does anyone know how it could be possible to transfer a V3 head onto the V4 body?
**

**

Well, since you have your figure as it  is, why bother? Looks good to me as-is.
Yes, it's possible to do that, and it's actually relatively easy, though time-consuming. After you've gotten a good modeling package and learned how to create morph targets on your own (which is much easier), then you can ask how to do that...

**> **Quote -

** I see no reason to spend a dime on this figure, or her content.

As long as you are happy to have the attitude that you need everything pre-made for you, you wouldn't see a reason.

Having said that, I can say with a reasonable amount of certainty that V4 with the +++ morphs is more than enough for most anything. The improvements over V3 are numerous, in terms of joints, for one, and morphability , for another. Also, I think the UV's are alot better.
Instead of complaining though, why not learn how to make some MT's on your own? Poser's magnets aren't as good as using a good modeling package, but they do work, and they're right there in the program - all it takes is some tweaking and experimenting, and there are tutorials out there for it, as well as info in the docs.
Give it a try!
As for the vowels, maybe V4 isn't Mimic-ready (might be, for all I know - haven't tried), but pretty much any facial/mouth expression can be made with what's offered. Except for there isn't much teeth motion, but that's ridiculously easy to do with Poser's magnets, since the teeth (upper and lower jaws) are separate object groups.

**

**

(I think Daz should have made it more clear that the muscle morphs and phonemes were not included) 

..I will agree that V4 is a great character. Her mesh is better optimized than previous versions, her joints are improved (you can make them a lot better if you choose to re-rig in another 3D package), her expressions are very well done and she is very versatile. I was told on the Daz PM forums that Phonemes are coming soon. I’ve heard nothing yet regarding the muscle morphs: my guess would be soon, as they want to get people using her and buying more add-ons

If I use DAZ characters I heavily customize them anyway, but the muscle morphs do save me some time for some general shapes  I've already started to make custom morphs for her and they’re coming along quickly. The pic above is the work in progress…

Quote -
While I whole heartily disagree with MikeJ on the included morphs issue... 

(I think Daz should have made it more clear that the muscle morphs and phonemes were not included)

And I don't have any problem with you disagreeing, (though I still don't think DAZ misrepresented themselves), either, and I'll even go so far as to agree that they could have made it clearer that V4, even with the MT++, was still a base product.
But, I don't have much interest in prolonging that argument.

Quote -
..I will agree that V4 is a great character. Her mesh is better optimized than previous versions, her joints are improved (you can make them a lot better if you choose to re-rig in another 3D package)

You talking about weight maps here? IMO, the polys are arranged in a much better way - they flow better - than previous DAZ figures, for ease in grouping to bones.

12/10/06

MikeJ:

Actually, it takes a lot to get me to complain. My outlook is generally positive. I like the morphs that are not included, and if I am going to pay my money, I am going to get what I want. I can wait. DAZ will likely respond this week by some means to issues like morphs. If not, there will be plenty of others to carry the complaint banner.

I work full time at a more than 40 hour a week job, and Poser is only a hobby for me among many other interests. I don't like magnets, but morph targets sounds very interesting to me. I can only learn so much at a time, but morph targets deserve investigation. I think I want to learn more about nodes first though.

I have not bought into all the complaints that others have, I do for myself what I can do.

So far I don't like V4's eyes. They look dull and unreal to me. The eyelashes also do not look right, in fact they look awfull. I can only assume that content providers will be working on these issues as well.

LMK

Naming the morph pack "Full Morphs++" was pretty blatantly deceptive and intened to trick people who don't scrutinize labels.  I would have bought the morph pack regardless, please note, but I wouldn't make a peep if it had been called "Basic Morph Kit" or even a more neutral "Morph Pack I".  Naming it the same as the V3 morph package was simply dirty, there isn't a good defense of it.

I looked about and I couldn't locate "Full Morphs ++" at DAZ.  The closest that I can find is "Victoria 4.0 Morphs++"

dphoadley

How do you suggest one evaluates a potential purchase?

One either takes a risk, believing at least some of the vendor's publicity, and makes the purchase or one wais for feeback from others that have taken the risk, before deciding to go ahead.

If everyone adopted the second approach, nobody would ever buy aything as noone would take the first step.

But then there are always those who are happy to sit on the sideline, glaoting at the misfortune of others.

chriscox:

Quote - I looked about and I couldn't locate "Full Morphs ++" at DAZ.  The closest that I can find is "Victoria 4.0 Morphs++"

You know what, I'm looking over the staging area where I unpacked the files, and I evidently misremember.  I greatly regret making such a big deal over this in many posts now that I realize I was just mistaken.  I'm an idiot.  Thank you for correcting me.

(not a bit of sarcasm or recalcitrance there, I am genuinely regretful and I honestly appreciate you correcting me.  apologies to DAZ for my foolishness.)

pjz99 - I'm afraid I'm in the same boat as you. I too thought this was the full morphs package (even though I knew it didn't state as such, just presumed) & I  should have checked the morph list text properly before buying. We were wrong to judge Daz after our purchase, however I think we're not quilty for expecting more.

I am going to go enjoy the taste of my foot, since it's pretty squarely jammed in my mouth.  Sigh.

Well I got Pro pack with all the others included even the merchant resources which I may use now that i am beginging to get a handle on both Shade and Carrara. There is a lot missing or renamed so I don't know what i am seeing. Have to play with it for  awhile and see what i can do with it.

Quote - Was there, or was there not a full list of the morphs published before you bought?  And even if there wasn't, surely you could have insisted on one before forking overyour money.  As it's turned out, you've all bought a pig in a poke, without throughly seeing and examining it before hand, without weighing and evaluting its innate value, BEFORE you handed over your hardearned money.

But, of course, you've got thirty days to request a refund. Maybe.  And what kind of a song and dance will THAT entail.  In ther meantime, your money is in DAZ pocket, and their inferior product is on your hard drive.  And all because you insist on running lemming-like after the newest and shiniest item to come down the turnpike.  Shame for worshiping the Golden Calf.

Now you're all lwft with half-promises and understandings.  Good luck on getting your customer satisfaction.
Dzhugashvili's Gerbille

Oh DP your analysis is so true. Actually I think I'll just go throw myself off a cliff and resolve this hell I've self-created.