Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=2646

Now I've just been over to RDNA and they have a head morph pack for Sydney [see link], now IMVHO this girl looks like she can take on V4 and beat the hell out of her!

Anyone who has both care to comment!!!

Right now when Sydney arrives here I might not even bother with V4!!!

Sydney has old school creasing problems at the shoulders even with basic posing.  V4 is tremendously smoother in the mesh.  Not a looks thing, a function thing.  V4 with the basic morph pack is also extremely customizable compared to Sydney (at least out of the box, and I'm not really interested in spending money on a figure already left on the floor by the much superior V4 imho)

edit: 'ere I'll post a comparison of the two in the same pose in a couple of minutes.

Is what you say from personal experience of both figures? If it is then I value your opinion!

Have you tried both figures in extreme poses?

I'm not having a go, just want to know if it's worth shelling out even more cash for a figure who hasn't exactly had  a lot of good press round here lately!!

Experience with both.  Sydney's shoulders crease just putting her hand on her hip.  Plus so much for "universal poses", I can't write a V4 pose and read it into Sydney.  hang on a bit.

Thanx, appreciated!

I've used both.  They're both excellent figures with a lot of potential.  I didn't like Judy or Jessi, but Sydney really does seem able to give V4 some decent competition.  They both use similar tech (inbuild magnets instead of morphs).  V4 does seem to have smoother joints, but Sydney's face seems to be capable of more expression, at least without an add on morph pack.

Thanx Ajax, appreciated!!

Unbelievable, SYDNEY will not take a damn universal pose cleanly, that came with P7 FOR SYDNEY!  >.<

sorry, finally got some sorta-apples-to-apples... but it's distressing that a freshly loaded default Sydney does not seem to take "universal poses" that were packed with P7 all that well.

I'll tell you this for free, V4 is born for ballet imho.

ps: those are two exact same poses, one designed for V4 (the ballet pose) and the other a "universal" pose that was packaged with Poser 7.  as you can see I have Universal Poses enabled...

Hmm, That is really scary!!

what is really scary is that my V4, heavily morphed, took the universal poses much better than the default Sydney.

ps: one more extreme pose from my gallery
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1343887

"Sydney has old school creasing problems at the shoulders even with basic posing." I don;t think so.

http://www.contentparadise.com/forums/contentparadise/index.php?showtopic=2665&st=20&p=19415&

There's some camparisons in this thread and a few others. However maybe not exactly what you are looking for as I am not sure what "old school creases" are. 
Sydneys Shoulders are every bit as good if not better. Try a combination of the ABC's, and the dials, and don't pose with the translate tool. Use the rotation tool in Poser to pose any figure, you'll get much better results.

Hmm that looks pretty good!!

Those are really wonderful from RDNA, like I said before, I am going to give Syd a shot first.  I will have my poser sometime this next week.  The price for the morphs are in my range from RDNA and well I get Syd in my Box, just up my price ally for now.  If I need or want V4, I will go get her after I experiment.  I really want to see some better textures for Syd though, anyone know if they have been created?  Sharen

Do you mean the textures? Or Materials? I have some AO based mat sets that I use a lot I could probably post. With some precedural things added in. Like on the cover of the P6 CE box. I really like Syd's default textures and they're very hi-res  with plenty of anomalies and I think 8 material sets, but yes variety is the spice of life. I like my women like I like my coffee, and no, not hot and cheap, just a little darker.

I also use those Kaori Blossom textures a lot for Miki which I really like. Mostly I think because of the gloss painted on the lips. I also use some custom lights I made and get some good results with the aforementioned mat sets. I sent a mail to TamelaJ asking what she was up to for Syd but haven't hear anything. I'll try to put the mats on the CP forums for download but while I did set them up for Sydney, they have literally hundreds of orphaned nodes and nodes that proabaly don't do anything. I really need to clean them up first.

The only problem is that to get Sidney you have to buy Poser 7. If then you have to add morphs to be bought separately, it becomes rather expensive just for one character ( I use interPoser Pro in Cinema4D, so I don't need Poser anymore).
Sidney's face looks much better than V4.

Guess I'll wait a bit longer...

CLSteve, could you show Sidney's knies and elbows fully bent?

Yes there's a bunch of images of some extreme bending on the CP/G2Females forum. In several threads. 
 
http://www.contentparadise.com/forums/contentparadise/index.php?showforum=55  

It's not necessary to buy the RDNA morph packs. She has FBM's included that are quite versatile, but yes it is necessary to buy P7.
 

Hmm, Buying P7 isn't the issue for me as I am waiting for the box to arrive [lol].
I've seen a lot of negative comments about V4 though so I'm not so sure just yet!!
Guess I'll have to wait to try Sydney out myself first!

V4 is hands down better.  Her default face is a little cartoony, but with a few turns of the dial, she comes out looking pretty good.  V4 has a lot more morphs and bends better than Sydney.  V4's breasts are better too.  However, Sydney's genitals are better defined...

shrug -- I'll be happy to try both of them.  Why not?  The more the merrier.

If Sydney's a good figure, then I'll use her.  V4, too.  Perhaps I'll even have a Sydney character, a V4 character, and a V3 character together in the same scene.  I might even throw in S3.  And Laura somewhere in the background.  With P7 and my new PC, it should be easy.

vilters:
V4's back bending above seems fine to me, although I'm not an anatomy guru.  Backs vary from person to person, and sometimes they even crease (which I suppose Sydney can be let off the hook for):
http://www.globalyogasf.com/images/Ivy3.jpg
^^ yikes, bad creasing problem!!
http://www.limbermen.com/Piedra/an.JPG
^^ a flexy sexy man

I don't see the issue you're pointing out with the left V4's hip/thigh.  The right side V4 actually has her thigh bent at a shaper angle and I see no kink there either.

The chest bending wierdness I'm just going to blame on the "universal pose" that doesn't work well on either character, although imo V4's back and chest are visibly more resistant to kinks and creases.

Neither figure has perfect feet bending, although imo V4s ankles look a lot more realistic than the giant, meaty tendon with the huge kink in it illustrated above in clsteve's image.  On a human body, that tendon does not bend regardless of where the foot is.  The crease at the back of the heel is exaggerated by the by the lighting, it's not really that bad.  It isn't right, but it's unusual for it to show at all in my experience so far.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1343887

Sydney's upcrawling buttock is one of the most unappealing and unnatural thing's I've seen lately.

What's an upcrawling buttock?

the buttock that is crawling up and turning into a giant spherical bubble, instead of flexing like muscle does.  Human bodies just don't do that.

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=50&hl=en&lr=lang_en&q=yoga+backward

V4 wins "hands-down."  

Sydney's hands are huge and I can't find a way to reduce their size (I've tried scaling and magnets) without messing up the JP's.  If I could, I would use both.    

Sydney is still necessary in Wardrobe Wizard to convert her clothes to V4.

not without silicone..;)

Quote - the buttock that is crawling up and turning into a giant spherical bubble, instead of flexing like muscle does.  Human bodies just don't do that.

Again, just not true, try splitting the rotation over the Thigh and Buttock.

not trying to sell you V4 ^_^ if you prefer sydney, use sydney.  that thigh is not rotated one degree.

edit: well, not quite true, it's rotated about 4 degrees.

clsteve,

V4 has no buttocks.  And her butt does look unnatural when her thighs are bent more than 45 degrees, so "splitting the rotation" is not possible.

point was the thigh/buttock area is not significantly rotated in either model, for that pose.

I like Sydney's looks. I HATED Jessi.

Sorry all but I am on a rant tonight.  After reading all of the above comments and having loaded up Sydney and attempted to do anything with her out of the box, I can not see where people are saying she looks good.  Are we all using the same figure, did those that downloaded P7 get an improved mesh.  The Sydney that can in the boxed version is IMVHO even uglier that Vicky 2.  Again my apologies but I feel EF is laughing all the way to the bank on this one.

Quote - Yes there's a bunch of images of some extreme bending on the CP/G2Females forum. In several threads. 
 
http://www.contentparadise.com/forums/contentparadise/index.php?showforum=55  

It's not necessary to buy the RDNA morph packs. She has FBM's included that are quite versatile, but yes it is necessary to buy P7.
 

You mean the (total) 6 FBMs?  Or am I missing something? I don't count the ABC (easypose) pseudo-morphs.  I see:

Ectomorph
Endomorph
Mesomorph
BreastsNatural
Genital
FeetFlat

...and while the head does come with phoneme morphs (a plus), along with some 'expression' morphs, there aren't any morphs to 'shape' head/facial features.  Of course some (rough) shaping can be done in the Face Room, so that's a plus, but not the same degree of control you get with a dozen lip -shape morphs, or a dozen nose-shape morphs, etc.

Again, maybe (hopefully) I'm just missing something, but there doesn't really seem to be a lot of versatility built in to the included, out-of-the-box figure.  Any kind of wide-spread use of this figure is going to rely on 3rd-party add-on morph packs.  This is the same situation Jessi was (and still is) in (except that Sydney is definately a step-up from Jessi, comparing base figures).

...to be fair, the 'chest' does have  handfull of additional control morphs for moving the breasts around.

But aren't EXTRA morph packs needed for V4 as well??

I'm nit trying to start anything, just trying to see the difference and deciding if spending even more cash on another figure is the way to go!

I mean presently I have V3, Judy, Jessie, Dorkess and soon Sydney!

Is V4 worth the money? From the forum posts so far there seems to be a lot of complaints about her!!

Quote - But aren't EXTRA morph packs needed for V4 as well??

Yes, extra morph packs are needed for V4 (and other Vx figures) as well.  So the question becomes one of "which figure am I going to invest in?".

For some people, they'll have enough spare cash to just buy whatever they want, for however many figures they have.  For people on a more limited budget, the quesiton gets tougher and maybe they can only really afford to invest in one new figure (if that).

Currently, Daz is the leader in producing Poser figures.  V3 was (still is, I think) given away for free, so you you can start drinking the Daz kool-aid by just buying the morph packs.  This (among other things) has given Daz and thier Victoria line of figures an overwhelming market-share for 3rd-party development and support for those figures (How much content was ever developed for Jessi?  by comparison, very little).  This leaves any other Poser figure maker/seller (including e-Frontier) at a disadvantage, from the get-go.

You can pretty much bet that market-savy 3rd-party developers will be supporting V4 with textures, character packs and all sorts of clothing and other add-ons - that's pretty much a no-brainer.    Will those same developers be making Sydney products?  Maybe.  Some will, for sure.  But let's look at some of the issues...

Pro:

• The base Sydney comes free with P7, so a large user-base will exist.
• Sydney has a 'unique/exotic/ethnic' look, that some folks will prefer.
• Sydney might pose better in some situations than V4, maybe worse in others (arguable point, probably shouldn't be included in either Pro or Con lists, unless you have your own opinion on it).
  - Sydney works in the Face Room (not a substitute for good shaping morphs, but definately adds some variety)
• Sydney comes with phoneme morphs.

Con:

• The base Sydney is not particularly versatile (without purchasing additional 3rd-party morph add-on packs).
• Sydney has a 'unique/exotic/ethnic' look, that some folks will find hard to get rid of.
• While still amazonian in proportion, V4's base body may be prefered over Sydneys (aguable - form your own opinion).
• 3rd-party developers have a known set of body morphs to target when they make clothing (the ones sold by Daz, for thier Daz character).  Which morph pack should Sydney developers shoot for?  Do you base that on who you like?  The morph pack you like? What you think will be the most popular?  How do you second-guess the market?

...maybe the answer to the last question above is: "I'll target the morph pack XXXX, because it's the first one available and I'm betting a lot of people will buy it".  As a 3rd-party developer, I personally prefer less 'fluffy' reasoning :) .

So this all boils down to a situation where figures with the most 3rd-party support will have the biggest market-share, which in turn gets them the most 3rd-party support - it's a viscous cycle :) .  Currently, (for female figures, at least), that would be Daz figures.  From a developer's perspective, I know (or at least it's a very safe bet) that V4 will sell well and so there will be a large market for add-on products.

What I don't know is how many people will actually want to use the free Sydney base figure, and then spend the cash investing in morph packs, clothing, textures and other add-on content normally needed for wide general usage of a figure.

This all leads back to the initial point/question... "But aren't EXTRA morph packs needed for V4 as well??".  So yes, extra morph packs are needed for both figures.  Sydney has an advantage in this case, because the base figure is 'free' for P7 owners (similar to V3).

The problem/difference is that V4 has the Daz legacy/track-record going for them (along with the other issues mentioned above) and so e-Frontier needs to 'sweeten the pot' to get some market-share back...

They could have done this by including some (standard) shaping morphs with the base figure.  This would have:

1. Made the P7 customers greatfull/happy.
2. Promoted wider-spread use of the figure (no immediate need to buy additional morph packs from 3rd-parties).
3. Given the 3rd-party clothing developers a defined/known set of morphs to develop for.  All of which leading to...
4. More 3rd-party support for the figure due to the confidence generated by the items above.

Personally, I'd love to see more competition and variation/options of figures to choose from, but figures will live or die based on 3rd-party content and support of those figures.  I suspect that Sydney will get more support than Jessi did, but e-F could have (and should, IMO) improved the situation by including more morphs.

Quote - Is V4 worth the money?

I've mostly been addressing issues revolving around whether or not each figure will have healthy 3rd-party content support.  My bet is that the situation will be slightly improved for Sydney vs Jessi, but still very similar to the V3 vs Jessi situation, overall.  So if support is important for you, then that's something to consider.

As far as the V4 figure goes, from my experience so far, I don't have any/many complaints - she's a nice step up from V3 in proportions, looks, joints, etc. (similarly, Sydney is a nice step up from Jessi).

I guess my advice would be that the base Sydney is free, so use her a while and determine whether she suits your needs and try to get some feel for the level of support (if that's important to you).

Wow! many thanx for that comprehensive answer, really, really appreciated!
I just seem to be in an endless cycle of buying at the minute, Just bought Vue6Inf, Poser7 and now "maybe" V4, where will it all end!!

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1344891

The attached is the default Sydney materials and hair, no postwork except gamma correction.

She bends very well in the lower torso in the poser I tried on her. 

But you do have to consider that she will probably not get as much support from vendors, so less clothing and add-ons will be available. Although RDNA will probably support her quite well since they make the morph packs. 

I am debating whether to get the morph packs since the morph tool really does make it very easy to make your own morphs. If you have ever used a modeller wih soft selection then you'll find it incredibly easy. If you haven't, well, you'll still find it easy once you get going!

For me, in about four thousand five hundred dollars US once I finish my hardware upgrade (although I'm sure that won't be the END of it, just the beginning).

People looking at the default face of character X or Y imo really have their head in the wrong place, unless you are just doing this to amuse yourself.  I'm not looking to make money off of my efforts but I am trying to design a good comic, and for that I can't have it filled with a dozen characters who all have the same face (or even remotely similar faces for that matter).

One advantage that the G2 females have is that clothes made for one will fit them all. So you get 3 times the bang for one outfit. As soon as the other G2 females come out of course.

There is no comparision in my eyes.  V4 is great in all ways. Ease of use, posing, and face are much better than Sydney.  Sydney is too oriental looking and even with the Morps at EF she still looks oriental.   

If you like that look than Sydnay may be your girl but she is not for me.

Quote - ... Couldn't change the face much unless I get more morph packs (unless I find where the magnets are ) but this is the body I created while playing.

You should give the Face Room a try.

Spanki, yes, the face room. I had forgotten that. Thanks for reminding me :) I like both Sydney and V4. But V4 does seem to pose a bit better. So I guess since I have both, I'll use both and have tons of fun.grin

"except her elbows bug me". That's why god created Photoshop, LOL!

I have not touched a Daz product in several years. I need a model that has limbs that can be mistaken for normal, and I cannot fix abnormal limbs in postwork, because this is for animation.

I had to abandon Daz and Vickie years ago, because there was no forthcoming solution for her abnormal shoulders, inward-curving upper arm, pipe-cleaner arms overall and the bent drinking-straw inner elbow deformation. I could see no way to make a serious drama animation with such conditions.

But sadly, Jessi and to only slightly lesser a degree Miki, share this trait. We all know it is because of the limits imposed by the simplistic Poser rigging and bones. Jessi and Miki also have hands that do not work for me, outsized knuckle joints that resist work-around. Ok.

I have been verbal with both Dan Farr, who called me as a courtesy once, and CLSteve, about the issue. Not only could Poser/Studio become the workshop for short films should this problem be solved, but the model would go on to high fame and fortune in projects in Vue, Max, etc.

My reaction to this situation was to take a year off from animation and 3D to write a screenplay and compose a piano concerto. The only bright spot when I departed was Apollo, or the option of moving up to Max/Maya/Xsi with models from Turbo Squid.

Now that I am back I discover that Anton has departed due to some byzantine struggle that I do not wish to understand. All I know is that he is gone and Apollo is orphaned.

Now, with the release of Poser 7 and its short (but sweet) list of animation improvements, I am ready to go again. I held out hopes Sydney would have normal limbs, but frankly, from playing with the base model and looking at the promos of Colm's morphs...I agree she is a step up from Jessie, but not enought to make my day. Some artists are working on a female version of Apollo called Apollina. That project actually has significant promise. I hope it continues.

But then, there is V4. I don't call her Vickie, ever. She is Miss 4 to me. Daz has attacked and solved some of the problems that vex me.  Even the default arms, shoulders and deformations at the elbow are a vast improvement. If you dial in some fitness, definition, bodybuilder and play around with thin (negative) and forearm thickness and biceps bulge, you get the payoff...

Lovely, shapely arms and shoulders.

Is it perfect? No. We now have a new critter, the too-high-cut of the armpit. Already some are working on deformers to attack it; it may be addressable with these tools. When you lift her arms well above the head, the underarm area looks too deep/substantial. Also, the deformation of flesh at the inner elbow when the arm is bent up does not completely convince. But compared to that other v-girl, it is a large improvement.

I know not to what function others put these models. I am not concerned about extreme bending poses. I want them as actors on a stage in costume for opera virtual performances, and actors in stories. Sometimes nude, but mostly clothed. But did you ever notice, even in such mundane circumstances, nude or not, the shoulders and bare arms of a woman are...................important.

I am just beginning my work with V4 and Poser 7. I lost 15 hours of work poured into an animation because of the bug that V4 is not compatable with Poser unless you turn off external morphs (no .pmds). But so far, I am ecstatic. I have a female model that works for me, at long last.

::::: Opera :::::

I agree with you, Opera. I was very reluctant to get V4 but, seen the fact that Sidney only comes with P7, I decided to take the risk, and I'm very pleased.

As far as the armpits are concerned, I suggested long ago that it would be better to start from different arm poses. The way the arm is attached to the body is, apart from one joint on the sternum (!) completely done with muscles. It'ss very difficult to model such an area. But when you start from arm down, arm forward, arm upwards, arm sidewards and iarm in front of the body, you can adjust anatomy.
The only thing that changes is finally the location of points in space, so it should also work in animation by setting keys.
In all cases: as, for example, arm upwards and sidewards have their own armpit settings, both should only move to halfway to met the other. And be taken over by that other. This way extreme movement would be limited.

interesting gongyla, I've saved that out and when the moment comes I will parse it down. might have to write to you at the time to grasp it more deeply. Thanks.

:: og ::