I just installed P7 tonight and have been testing it out, and I just want to cry!  The whole UI is so bloody slow!  Selecting items from the drop down menu in the Preview workspace...I click to select something and wait and wait and wait for it to register.  Navigating through the libraries is slow as well, and when I try to click on an item it doesn't highlight right away and sometimes jumps to the one below.  Loading anything...figures, clothes, props, etc...takes a long time.  And the parameter dials are the worst!  Have any of you played an MMORPG?  It's like P7 has major lag!  Like when you're trying to spin around or run, and nothing happens for a few seconds, then suddely it catches up and you realize you've overcompensated and spin around way to much or go running off into wall!  For example, I try to rotate a figure and it jerks around in a sort of stuttering motion, rather than a smooth rotation.  This used to happen in P6 with the Texture Shaded Preview, but NEVER with the Smooth Shaded!

What is going on???  Is this normal for P7?

Go into preferences and reduce the number of undos.

That should speed up several functions.

By different it remembers the last 100 things you did. If that includes adding and deleting props and figures - it has to remember what was added and deleted. If it includes making morphs... well, you're going to be shooting your Ram out the window on that one...

I'm still at 100, but I've read that people are getting improvements from cutting it down, and plan to try it myself tomorrow.

There is also an option Library -> File Search -> default is Deep, set it to Shallow and drilling around is much faster.

PS I have noticed that the Posing camera does not scroll nearly as smoothly as Main and Aux and the others, I don't know what it is about Posing camera.

Thank you both!  I'm getting ready to go to bed but will try these out first thing tomorrow! 

I do agree that in most things P7 is a bit slower but this is most apparent in complex scenes. Hiding the figures you don't currently need will bring back the performance. In most cases you only work at one or two figures at the time.
There are some problems with very large runtimes, collections will help there.

It's more than just a bit for me.  :(  It's taking me about 3 times longer in P7 to do what I normally do in P6...not to mention the added frustration of the wrong things being selected because of this 'lag'.  And that's with just a single, untextured, unclothed figure with no hair, no nothing!

I've reduced the number of Undos to 10 and set the File Search to Shallow, and it doesn't seem to make any difference at all.

At the moment, the only things I've installed are the bonus Casino Pack, 4 figures and their respective morph packs, 2 character sets and 3 sets of clothing.  I'm cringing just thinking about how much P7 is going to bog down once I begin adding more.

Oh, and deleting anything from a scene takes a rediculous amount of time!  I am seriously unhappy.  Unless I can find a way to 'fix' this I'm going to have to go back to using P6.  I won't be able to use any of the new features (which I was REALLY looking forward to), but I should be able to copy over some of the content, like Syndey and Simon, etc.

If anyone else has any ideas on how to speed things up, please let me know!

I agree on the deletion being very slow. I'm very used to PP, click delete object and it's gone. P7 thinks about it.

The thinking on deletion is the undos.

It has to remove each undo from memory when you delete a figure.  That is why reducing the number of undos helps speed up some processes.

 - Noel  

Deleting V4 with Undo set to 100 = 8 seconds
Deleting V4 with Undo set to 10 = 8 seconds

There's no difference at all!  :(

reducing the undos appeared to speed up the deletion time. Much to learn about P7.

@Neyjour - I'm not blaming the messenger but I'm wondering about the configuration of the PC you're using to run P7. Processor speed? Amount of ram? Usable disk space? Paging file on a disk other then application files? Recent drivers for your graphics card? Just wondering ...

Did you try changing from Open GL to SreeD for preview (or the other way round)?

bushi:

Processor speed?
1.79 GHz

Amount of ram?
960 MB RAM

Usable disk space?
I've got P7 installed on an external drive which has 64.1 GB Free Space.  My C: drive has 112 GB Free Space.

Paging file on a disk other then application files?
I don't understand what this is.  Could you explain please?

Recent drivers for your graphics card?
I don't know.  I've done every search I can think of but can't find a site where I can check this and/or download the drivers.  I have an Integrated ATI RADEON XPRESS 200.

Dizzi: How/where do I do that?

One possibility: external drives are MUCH slower then internal drives.. maybe if you install the main app on your main system HD instead of the exxternal one?

Keep in mind P7 uses a temp folder that it references all the time for undos, and if it's constantly accessing the slwoer drive, that'll of course slow the app down.

I'm pretty sure in preferences you can manuallt change the location of the temp folder.. there might even be a preferences settinbg in poser 7 for where it's located at.

I does look like you are running a system that's at least 4-5 years old, and P7 really has been optimised to take advantage of newer hardware.

Integrated video is always REALLY BAD compared to adding a video card, and you can biuy one 2-3 years old that would be more then twice as fast as what you are currently using for very little cash.

Something many people don't consider: integrated video cards share the same ram you want to use for your applications.. and P7's opengl rendering will suck a MAJOR chunk of your available ram, because it's not a standalone card.

I have a brand new dual processor 500+ system here, and when I fired t up with th eintegrated graphics, even it was sluggish on some opengl stuff. Once I installed the new video card, the sytem perked up to be VERY useable.

One thing I REALLY hate to do though it recommend upgrading a system as old as yours.. yes, the video cards for it are cheap now, but if it were me, I'd be saving up to replace your current system in the future, instead of investing more money in it instead.

My rule of thumb is if my system is LESS then 2 years old, I'll put money into it to upgrade it. if it's around 2 years old, I really have to consider if whatever I'm putting into it wis going to be worthwhile a year from now, and If it's MORE then 2 years old, it's time to consider getting a newer system, because of tech advances, and ever dropping prices, an dusing the old system in a network just for file storage, archives, backups, or as a online system if my main system is being a workhorse.

Quote - Deleting V4 with Undo set to 100 = 8 seconds
Deleting V4 with Undo set to 10 = 8 seconds

There's no difference at all!  :(

This doesn't surprise me, though the logical answer would be disappointing. As long as there is one undo available, every delete means Poser first has to record everything about the present state. You will therefore -probably- not see notable gain until you try having no undos available.

One more suggest. Switch Preview mode away from using OpenGL. OpenGL is a resource hog on your graphics card and ram... and the benefits are only going to be seen by a select minority of the community - people who make textures and want to see the results without having to hit render.

Heck, I often work in wireframe or cartoon with lines.

For the curious, my specs:

1.79 Ghz AMD 2200+
2.5 GB Ram
geForce 440 MMX 128MB

8.79GB free C drive. 2GB Page file
75.1 GB Free on Poser drive

My performance in Poser 7 is moderately decent.

It takes me quite some time to delete figures from scenes too, I don't think there is a lot to be done about that.  I would bet that is caused by the imrpoved memory management in P7 (and honestly, that is much improved) - when you delete your figure it's taking time to cautiously clear out all the memory that it took up.

Even when I delete a large mesh from lightwave and it's accociated textures, there's a big delay there as well.

Thing is, we are adding or removing BIG files, and in some cases a LOT of them.

I imagine you could turn the undo options down to zilch, and go back to privious deletion speed, but we've all be wanting multiple undo/pedo for so many years I suspect few will want to kill the feature off in faovr of speed increases.

it's already saved my @$$ a number of times already.

Gareee:

One possibility: external drives are MUCH slower then internal drives.. maybe if you install the main app on your main system HD instead of the exxternal one?
Ah!  I didn't know that!  P6 works just fine on the external, but I guess adding P7 as well has probably clogged it up quite a bit.  I'll try installing to the C: drive and see if there's any difference.

I does look like you are running a system that's at least 4-5 years old, and P7 really has been optimised to take advantage of newer hardware.
Whaa???  I bought this comp last Christmas from Best Buy.  I looked it up and the Introduction Date is November 16th, 2005:

Compaq Presario SR1625NX

Integrated video is always REALLY BAD compared to adding a video card, and you can biuy one 2-3 years old that would be more then twice as fast as what you are currently using for very little cash.
I didn't know that either!  I have an ATI RADEON 9200 sitting in my old comp.  Would that be better?

arcady:

This doesn't surprise me, though the logical answer would be disappointing. As long as there is one undo available, every delete means Poser first has to record everything about the present state. You will therefore -probably- not see notable gain until you try having no undos available.
I'll try setting Udo to zero and see what happens.  Would have been nice to have
an Undo that actually works after almost 4 years of using Poser, but... shrug  Heh.  :P

Gareee:

**I imagine you could turn the undo options down to zilch, and go back to privious deletion speed, but we've all be wanting multiple undo/pedo for so many years I suspect few will want to kill the feature off in faovr of speed increases.**I
Actually, this laggy problem is driving me absolutely nuts, to the point where I can't stand to work in P7.  I would much rather kill Undo completely if that will help speed it up.  I've learned over the last few years to save, save, save, save constantly as I'm building a scene, so I've never had a problem with loosing anything important (except for a couple freak times when the file somehow got corrupted).  I can easily go back to the perbvious save and not have to spend much time at all getting back to where I was.

Yep, replace the onboard video with your old ATI.. make sure it's compatible with that system.

And I read your specs wrong.. I read the clock speed, but didn't keep reading it's a amd 2200+.. that should be fine for P7.

They'll be harder to hunt down, but see if you can find some of the "hot" video cards released last christmas.. they'll be dirt cheap now, and will give you an excellent perfomance/price ratio.

Doesn't seem to matter much ATI vs Nvidia.. there are proponants in each camp, and there should be plenty of comparison reviews by now.

I'm guessing the onboard video is sucking your ram, and your system is using it's HD cache to fake ram, and slowing your system down a lot in the process, since it's "ram starved".

Turning DOWN the opengl video preview resolution might also help take that burden off as well, but then of course you are turning off some of the new features you just paid to upgrade to.

Okay, I've got a lot of things I can try now!  And I have a 512 stick of RAM in my old comp that I can add as well.

Thank you SO much everyone!  Much appreciated!  And if you can think of anything else, please let me know! 

Right click the document window to change from OpenGL to SreeD, or via the menu: Render -> Render Settings -> Preview Tab (there you can adjust some other settings, too, like decrease preview texture resolution).

if she drops in even the old video card, she'll be able to use opnegl much better then currently. NEVER stick with onboard video if you can. Also, once yo uinstall your video card, see if there's a bios setting to disable the onbaord video as well.. it can be a resource hog, and also a slight power drain as well. (You could run it to drive a second monitor though)

You'd want to drive the main monitor with your video card, and the secondary monitor with your onboard video. You won;t see much of a performance hit, since games are always played on th emain monitor anyway, and P7's opengl would remain on th emain monitor, so long as you don;t stretch the preview window across both screens.

Poser and many other graphic applications can be much easier to use with dual monitors.. you move all your tools and palettes to the secondary monitor, and you then mave a much larger work panel on your main monitor.

Addin gthat extra ram stick will also help.. you might find you need to add two at a time though. If so, you can pick up another 512k for about $20 us, and it's WELL worth that value to you to do so. (Depends though on type of ram, and ram speed.. you want to try to match them if possible but you can mix speeds, but might get a slight performance hit.

Also to maximize your systems cache, uncheck "let windows do my work for me", and make the cache size a bout 1/3rd more then wondows reccomends. Select the options to make it one non changing size. if you can, defrag your HD first.. that way your cahcer will all be together, and will operate slightly faster.

Once you video card is installed, look at poser 7's setup options.. if you can turn on hardware acceleration, do so.. that way your video card will be handling a lot of the preview workkload.

and of course, let us know if this helps you!

I really doubt that the old Radeon 9200 is faster than the integrated X300...

If you read the specs on the integrated stuff, it's REALLY barebones, but more importantly in her case, they also use shared ram.. in other words it's sucking the ram she has available for the 3d display, and Poser 7 is then ram starved, which would explain why her manipulations are so slow. her system it thrashing the hard drive trying to keep up.

Especially if she has a higher res preview display set.

When you have integrated graphics, If I recall, the graphic chip also shares most the workload with your processor as well, bogging it down n the process. its really just there so a brand new system without a video card can display dirext x and opengl aplications without erroring.

If you actually look at a graphics card and an integrated graphic chip, you can see how little they must do. There are a large number of chips on my video card, it requires a separate power supply, and advanced cooling. I'd say my card weighs 1/4 of a pound.

The onboard graphics on the motherboard is one thin flat 1"x1" chip. That's it.

Framerates on the integrated chip in UT 2004 were a whopping 16 fps, 800x600.

On my current card, I can crank the res to 1600x1200 turn everything on, and still exceed 150 fps

Bear in mind I have a brand new system with brand new onboard graphics, and have replaced it with year old tech, but relreleased with a better design. (The ati radeon x1950 pro)

It ran about $200, as worth every penny. Even a graphic intensive game like Oblivion runs silky smooth on it.

I can't even imagine trying to run Oblivion with onboard graphics.

My hubby and I are both gamers, and when I bought this new comp I was thinking I would have to buy a new graphics card.  But surprisingly, EQII ran quite well with it, and I had no major problems with P6 either so I just left things as they were. 

But if the 9200 card will help with P7 then I'm definitely gonna have to switch it into my new comp.  I know EQII ran well with it, but we play WoW now and I really hope I don't run into any problems with that.  The integrated card on this comp seems to be doing an amazing job...aside from from some terrible lag the first day we played, WoW has been running flawlessly and the graphics look absolutely amazing.  I'm actually really suprised.  In the past I've always had  to buy a new graphics card to play our MMOs.

I've installed P7 on my C: drive but haven't had a chance yet to test it out.  We've got family arriving tonight so I have to clean today (Ick!) when all I want to do is tear my comp open and start tinkering.  Heh.  :P

There are notable memory differences between a video game and Poser - so it shouldn't surprise if Poser hits on bits of Ram the game is never pulling at.

Better play with the preview options (especially texture size), then update the graphics card drivers, as your onboard graphics card is better than the old 9200. Is there a lot of HD action when you do anything in Poser 7?

I have a system with a twin head lcd screens, one I am using for an extended view of the library, and what dialogue windows I can cram in too. 3 gigabytes of Ram, a relatively decent video card, 64 bit OS.
I do experience a time lag with the first time I undo a figure, but not after that. So I guess there is some intelligent disk and memory chache going on. Which the more RAM there is, the merrier.

So what I do is that as soon as I start up Poser7, I delete the default figure, wait out about 8-10 seconds, and then go on working as if nothing had happened.

My point is, Poser7 is a complex beast, and lots of RAM and a good video card will go a long way. The hard disk thing too, of course. If your budget is limited, I'ld go for more RAM, then the hard disk...

I wonder if there are any onlibne comparisons of the onboard chip to her old video card? That might help her decide the best course of action. I knwo though you can pick up a pci express x9700 pro card for under $80 now.

Maybe the best thing to do right now is to see how P7 performs on the C: drive (adjust settings, etc.), add that extra stick of RAM, and then when I can afford to (after Xmas), just get a new graphics card.  That's probably the safest bet and $80 is definitely doable...I could even go as high as $150.

I compaired some timing with poser 6 and poser 7:

startup:  poser7: 61sec,  poser6: 43sec.

loading V4:  poser 7: 31 sec, poser 6: 14 sec.

deleting v4:  poser 7:  13 sec. poser 6: immediately.

I've a system that's similar: a compaq presario, but with celeron-D processor2.8gHz, with 2gig ram and new Nvidia Geforce 6600 GT (which is a gaming-card)
I think this all has to do with the new undo-function, and I think E-frontier has to improve that, but I remember when I by accident deleted a figure and had start all over again.
It's same problem with virus-scanners, they make your system run slower but you can't without them.

If you can go $150 for a video card, save a little longer, and go $200 for the ati x1950 pro 256 meg. It's what I got and it was picked in a number of websites as best video card buy under $300. You can even install it in aa dual video card set in th efuture if you choose.

I'm really happy with mine, and it overclocks about 15-20% which is great.

@Neyjour - Sorry about not getting back to you. For some reason I didn't get a message that a reply had been posted. From reading through the posted messages I'd have to agree with the advice that Gareee has been giving you. The only thing I'd add is to stuff as much RAM as you can afford in your PC since Poser has always been a memory hog. I just got my boxed Mac version today so have only had a bit of time to tinker with it. I haven't had the slow UI problem in general. There have been a couple of instances here P7 has taken several seconds to respond when trying to move the object properties panel.

I don't think the system setup has much to do with the lag - people are always quick to assume that THAT is the problem as opposed to a train wreck of a computer. I have a quad processor, 16 gigs of Ram, a 1 gig video card (ATI) and more hard drive space than a small school and Poser 7 LAGS!!
Now the problem I seem to have is that Poser willl crash upon loading (which is something new that happened starting yesterday).
And the runtimes take forever - could someone explain how to set up different runtime liabraries?
Thanks

I has been posted here about 500 times, and I refuse to repost something when it is so easily searchable here.

Gareee - relax buddy. Simply saying that it can be found elsewhere in the forum was all that was neccessary.. Remove the stick up your butt.

I'm not being a snit but page 38 of the manual show you how to add libraries ;)

shrugs

Poser 7 is quite fast here - as fast or faster than P6.  GForce 6800 XL (512MB).

No stick, but the exact same question has been asked about 40 times in the last 2 weeks.  You can't help but fall over a post about it.

If people would use search JUST a little, they would find their answers MUCH faster.

And if people would get off their bloody pedestal and be a little more courteous they wouldn't get such a smartass response now would they?

Check a bunch of my posts here first before assuming I'm an @$$hole.

Like Im going to search the forums to make a judgement call on your personality. Your response to my email was enough to do that.
But for someone who has had 3286 posts - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Gee... thanks. Merry Christmas! ;)

No dout about it - the P7 interface is extremely slow. Shitching between rooms is slow. Hvaing the properties of selected items appear is slow. Very basic stuff is waaaaaaaay sluggish.

What in the world did E-F do to their program?

It is, indeed, very slow.

Try reducing the number of undo's from 100 to something like 20, that should give a noticeable speed increase.

Does anybody know when the first service release is coming out?

My P7 is slow in most of the aforementioned parts, but it does render MUCH faster than P6 in scenes that call for Ambient Occlusion and Ray Tracing, by about 20 times (faster) in many occasions.