Some report empty or missing elements in importing when trying to import Poser 7 default characters into Vue 6 Infinite.

A Poser 7 bug - in my eyes.

Someone reported in the e-on registered user forum that he tried to import JamesCasual from Poser 7 into V6I. And got simply nothing. I tried to verify it and got the same result.

Then I opened the pz3 file in a text editor (MS Word in my case) and did a search for the geometry that is used. And ta ta, the problem is obvious.

This is what I saw there for the geometry:

figureResFile :Runtime:Libraries:Character:James:JamesCasual.obj
actor BODY:2

And this is how the correct structure should be - when I look into my installation of Poser 7:

*Runtime:Libraries:Character:**Poser 6:*James:JamesCasual.obj
actor BODY:2

I changed simply this in Word, saved the file as text only with extention pz3 and YEAH - imported this correctly into Vue 6 Infinite.

Man am I proud to find this.

And I think this is a major problem that maybe is the reason for many of the non showing up items on import.

Good catch

Just checked the JamesCasual CR2 (from P7), and the path is wrong in that, so they moved the files but didn't update the paths.
Poser's normal search routine must be finding the OBZ.
This will only affect the P6 figures, as that was the version when the geometry files got moved in with the CR2s.

Well, it depends of course what is written in other files that are installed. I will check for example some missing hair items and am sure it will be a similar problem.

It's important for all to remember that when they install Poser7 it installs in a compressed state, i.e. all geometries are OBZ and not OBJ. Vue can't see OBZ so won't import them.

When P7 arrived, the first thing I did was uncompress and delete all the OBZ which can be done with a python script already there. Everyone that uses Poser with Vue should do that simple thing first, if they have problems after that then fair enough!!

I have had no issue importing P7 items into Vue6Inf, sorry!

I had the same problem importing into Vue 6 Esprit a .pz3 created in P7.  I only wanted to import a simple scene but Vue 6 Esprit wouldn't import the pz3.  When I recreated the scene in P6 and went to import into Vue 6 there were no issues at all.  I'm hoping the upcoming sr1 for P7 will resolve these issues.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1353971

See my latest image in the gallery, Sydney imported into Vue6Inf, no problems! 
It was a test iamge I did just for this purpose!

It's not a great image but it wasn't meant to be, just an import and render test!

Oh, no problem for V6I to import the obz James geometry. When the pathname was ok. So I don't really see the need to unzip all obz files, even when I thought until today as well that this is the main reason.

Wabe: That's interesting because when I told e-on about this they thought it was likely and the reason was that I also had problems importing Poser figures from P6 into Vue6 until I uncompressed the OBZ, then they came in ok.
So when my P7 arrived I did the same thing and have had no issues, all I'm saying to anyone with this import problem is to try uncompressing the OBZ, it worked for me, it might for you, if you don't try it you won't know!!

Not trying to piss on your parade, just trying to help like we all are!

LOL - I have no problem on your remarks. They help I would say and that is what counts. So piss on, piss on.

I piss a lot since I became diabetic!! 

OK Now you guys have put a Hex on me!
Since pointing Vue at Poser7, it can't find textures for any file made in P6!  If I made the scene in Poser7, no problem but not if I made it in Poser6.
I can point it at Poser6, come out and it does find them, now is that a Vue6Inf issue or a Poser7 issue?

Any ideas???

Well, this is clear in a way. If you look into a pz3 file - i think everybody should do that maybe once in their lifes - you will see that the pathnames are not complete. They start with "Runtime:..." So a program liek Vue needs to know where this Runtime is located. This is a major reason why we all have to point Vue to the related Poser installation - so that it is clear where the Runtimes are.

Now when you point Vue to a Poser version that has not written the pz3 Vue of course will look in a wrong place - and then asks that you help a little in the work of identifying the correct elements.

Yes, but, and there's always a BUT [LOL], I have my Poser6 runtime linked in my Poser7 library so shouldn't it find it anyway??  hell I don't know!!

Also since installing Poser7 my Vue icon has changed in my saved files for vue scenes! Seems to have changed to a lo-res icon!!!

Yeah, those butts. I think there indeed is a bug - may it be Poser or Vue. That only Runtimes are identified correctly that are inside the Poser application folder.

That is why I do not have many problems i guess. I simply moved my whole Downloads/Runtime from my Poser 6 installation over to the Poser 7 one. And have no problem - beside the known ones.
 I have all my personal content in this one Runtime - Downloads. Was work of weeks to reinstall everything into that - now it seems to pay off.

Yes I did that when I moved from P5 to P6 and I plan on doing it with P7 but not before I know it works OK!!

Any ideas on the Icon thing???

Another example of my finding - why some elements do not show up in imports. I had a V3 with a Kozaburo hair and the import has lost the hair.

Now let us look into the pz3 file again. Here is the relevant part:

*prop figureHair:1
    {
    storageOffset 0 0.3487 0
    objFileGeom 0 0 :Runtime:Geometries:Kozaburo:short_bob.obj
    }
figureResFile :Downloads:Runtime:Geometries:DAZClothing:MilWom:V3:V3Teddy.obj
controlProp GoalCenterOfMass:4

And yes, you all see it - the pathname to the hair geometry is wrong. It must be "Downloads::Runtime:Geometries:Kozaburo:short_bob.obj"

*I change that and ta ta - character WITH hair! Works correctly after a manual correction!

No idea on the icon thing - I am on Mac, there everything is different anyway.

I've logged the import from P6 or P7 with e-on anyway, the thing that worries me is if I still had P5 installed I'd have to keep swapping between all 3, now it just shouldn't work like that IMO!

Also one other issue with that could be that Poser6 and down had start folders called "Curious Labs" as the start point, Poser7 has "E-frontier" as it's start folder. Don't know if that would matter except for what folder Vue looks for initially!!!

Quote - Victoria: have you ran the python script inside P7 to uncompress and delete all the OBZ???

See my latest image in the gallery, Sydney imported into Vue6Inf, no problems! 
It was a test iamge I did just for this purpose!

It's not a great image but it wasn't meant to be, just an import and render test!

I automatically de-compress all the .obz files in Poser, even though I don't use the native content.  That wasn't the problem.  This was a new .pz3 created in P7 that didn't use any .obz files at all.  Vue 6 Esprit just wouldn't import it but when I opened the same .pz3 in P6 and saved it in P6 Vue 6 didn't have any problems importing it at all.  In fact, the model is in the image I'm rendering right now.

Thanks for the thought, though.  Any idea is a good one when it might help solve an issue.  I think this will be solved with the SR1 that's due out soon for P7.

The .pz3 path problem has answered a lot of the questions I've had - why somethings will import and others won't.  I am finding that sometimes Poser includes the 'Downloads' in the .pz3 path and sometimes it doesn't.  Very inconsistent.

Well I've just confirmed one thing!
If Vue is pointing at Poser7 and I have done a scene in Poser7 with Poser6 runtime content, it will see it, inclusing the textures.

However; If I do a scene in Poser6 and my Vue is still pointing at poser7, Vue doesn't find the textures!

Now it shouldn't be that you have to keep changing what Vue looks for depending on which version of Poser you're using at any given time IMHO!
That's just crap programming isn't it???

Welcome to the world of the recursive search function. Poser has it; Vue depends on exact pathnames. And the killer is that errors in the pathing in Poser tend to slip through the cracks due to that recursive function (Poser can and =will= search the entire runtime to find a file. Of course with P7, you can now select how aggressive it is). Howard (Hogwarden) wrote an app called Correct Reference that scans the selected runtime, and identifies all the errors in syntax and pathnames....then gives you the option of either letting it fix things (NOT recommended, unless you have a backup. So much is similar that CR makes mistakes, and they are a bitch to find again), or gives you a list to make manual repairs with. The first runthrough will take a long time, and you will be....surprised...at the sheer number of errors that Poser's recursive search conceals. But once you fix your current runtime, you only have to worry about additions to it, which goes a lot faster. And the issue with which version of Poser you have selected is simply the fact that Vue depends on -exact- pathing to find resources. It has no external search capabilities. Whichever Poser executable you have selected will read the path as it stands to Vue....and if the resource doesn't exist at that exact path, then it starts its search within its own runtime. If you copied the entire texture folder to all your Poser installs, then you probably wouldn't have the number of issues....but anyone who uses Poser with an external rendering app needs to have CRPro or one of the other apps that do what it does (being familiar with CR and haveing had good success with Hogwarden's apps, that is the one I recommend. And P-Booost works just fine with P7 so far.....).

All sounds fine and dandy but I think most people want what they payed for to work as its suppose to.   I know I do and don't expect to buy other apps to make it work. :(

Poser 6 and vue work good together so why shouldnt poser 7 and vue 6 do the same.....?

Quote - All sounds fine and dandy but I think most people want what they payed for to work as its suppose to.   I know I do and don't expect to buy other apps to make it work. :(

Poser 6 and vue work good together so why shouldnt poser 7 and vue 6 do the same.....?

It was an odd thing, iloco, because I did a scene using V4 in P7 and the import worked just fine but when I did a scene using only a prop, Vue 6 wouldn't import it.  I did exactly the same thing in P6 using the same prop and Vue 6 had no problems importing it.  It may have been a path thing but, since I still have P6 on my machine, I'm not too worried about it.

I think the missing probs have the same problem - wrong path names to the geometry.

The more I think about all this the more I think it is indeed partly a Vue problem too. That it only follows the exact pathname and does not look somewhere else. As it probably was the case in Vue 5. But because this is a pre-release and because Poser 7 is brand new as well this is nothing to pull hairs out. A simple report to e-on and maybe e-Frontier is enough.

I run all my Poser files through "Poser File Organizer 2", both Poser 6 and Poser 7. Using it, I've never had any troubles loading a Poser file into Vue.

I usually use Correct Reference, a little Poser utility, when installing new Poser content. It goes through the installed content and flags stuff with incorrect references and paths. Might be a good idea to try that. I got it here, forget if it was a freebie or I paid for it. But very handy for situations like this.

After doing a little research on this issue, the fundamental problem is that when saving scene files (PZ3's) which use characters that have compressed obz (object files) and crz(chracter files), the runtime path in the scene file will only save the hardcoded runtime path inside of these files.  This is true of P6 and P7 characters when the geniuses at EF decided to distribute only compressed versions of their characters.  To make matters worse, they stuck the geometry files for these characters in the runtime:libraries:character path instead of the traditional runtime:Geometries path.

So if you installed Poser 7 onto the default standard path and have your runtime located on that standard path, you won't have any problems (except for some of the corrupted figures obz' such as James casual).  If you move your runtime to another location and change the runtime folder hierarchy, you must uncompress the crz and obz files using the uncompress Python utility program in Poser (you can find this from the Poser python menu) in order for the scene file to save the proper runtime paths.

The bug or problem that needs to be solved by EF is to save out the actual runtime path to the PZ3 when using compressed obz/crz files.  This bug is also there in P6 as well.  I'm surprised it hasn't come up until now.  Given the fact that so few Vue'ers render P6 and P7 characters versus DAZ characters, this may not be all that surprising. 

I personaly think its a Poser bug and not a Vue issue since Vue 6     works great with Poser 6.
 I hope all that are finding the bugs will report to efrontier so we can get a good patch when they release an update. :)

 My poser 7 install went to Program Files/e-frontier folder and not the Curiosu Labs folder that all my runtimes are located.
  I am wonder if I reinstall Poser 7 and put it into the same folder my poser 6 is in if that might help a little.
  I have been waiting for a fix before doing this. :)
 

Just point P7 to your P6 runtimes and they'll be fine.  It's like using external runtime folders.

Thanks,  That is what I have intended to do when poser gets the path issue patched for us. :)

Victoria: that works fine if you make a pz3 in P7 using your P6 runtime stuff. It doesn't work if you "MADE" a pz3 in P6 and your Vue install is pointing at P7.

That's how it is for me anyway!

Before importing into Vue6Inf a pz3 I made in P6, I have to first re-do my Vue to point at P6, but only if the pz3 was made in P6. If I made it in P7 with P6 stuff I don't have to!!

Quote - Victoria: that works fine if you make a pz3 in P7 using your P6 runtime stuff. It doesn't work if you "MADE" a pz3 in P6 and your Vue install is pointing at P7.

That's how it is for me anyway!

Before importing into Vue6Inf a pz3 I made in P6, I have to first re-do my Vue to point at P6, but only if the pz3 was made in P6. If I made it in P7 with P6 stuff I don't have to!!

The point of this whole thing, fixer, is that I made the pz3 in P7 and my Vue 6 is pointing to P7.  The pz3 wouldn't import.  Without changing where Vue is pointing, I redid the pz3 in P6 and it imported perfectly into Vue 6.  

Like I said, not a big deal for me since I maintain P5/6 &7 for product testing anyway.  I've reported this both to eF and e-on so we'll see.  I know that I can use a P7 pz3 with a figure in Vue 6 because I've done it.  I also know that to use a pz3 with just a prop, at least right now, I need to do this in P6.  No biggie.

Hi Victoria, I wasn't having a pop honest!!
This seems like a different issue to what I'm having then, I guess they have a few things to sort out.
As you say it's no biggie for me either except remembering which pz3 I made in which app,
Of course when I go to using P7 completely it won't be an issue, unless I need to re-do some older stuff.
Hmm There's a thought, how will it cope with stuff I made in P5?? I don't have that installed anymore but all the content is in my P6 runtime, guess I'll give it a try! [LOL] 

Quote - Hi Victoria, I wasn't having a pop honest!!
This seems like a different issue to what I'm having then, I guess they have a few things to sort out.
As you say it's no biggie for me either except remembering which pz3 I made in which app,
Of course when I go to using P7 completely it won't be an issue, unless I need to re-do some older stuff.
Hmm There's a thought, how will it cope with stuff I made in P5?? I don't have that installed anymore but all the content is in my P6 runtime, guess I'll give it a try! [LOL] 

Hey, fixer.  I know you weren't having a pop.  That's what the forum is all about, trying to figure out what's going on and if we have something to offer towards a fix.  Believe me, I love the forums here.  I get a lot of help and love it when I can offer some, as well.

Happy New Year, Bud!  I'm sure we'll talk a lot more since I've started posting more frequently.

I solved my problem of the people not coming in. I changed my name of my posertm4 folder to poser 4, but interestingly if you save a premade scene in poser 7 it doesn't fix the funny name of the P4 folder which looks different to the tm thing. But if you delete the funny symbols then all the people import okay. I still haven't got textures working but I think there's a funny texture path when I examine the poser 7 pz3 in a text editor. Love esther

no that was quite it, because after deleting all the funny sympols when I resaved the file in poser 7 it again put all the funny symbols back into the pather name with myposer 4 folder. Odd. Love esther

When I add folders for vue to check for additional textures using the vue preferences on my mac, even if I have the recursive checkbox ticked (a checkbox which incidentally isn't labelled as a recursive checkbox,nor is it shown and labelled pictorially in the manual for user interface), it does NOTHING! I doesn't work at all! That's why wabe had to amalgamate all his runtimes and put them in poser 7 as that's the only thing the mac version of vue will see no matter what you do. Love esther

Ok I'm really going to throw you now!!
As i said before I've had no issues with import from poser 6 or 7 into Vue6Inf except initially which someone suggested was due to Vue not liking OBZ whether that's true or not!!

Anyway as a result of this thread I decided to Re-compress my P6 and 7 installations and guess what!!

Yep that's right, as soon as I imported into Vue6Inf, I had missing people, props etc. etc.

So went back into P6 and 7 and Uncompressed the content again, re-saved the scene so it didn't still have compressed files in there as a precaution and Hey Presto, all peeps, props and everything else came into Vue!
Nothing missing at all!!

I am still having problems even with uncompressed files.
  I think e-fontier needs to do lots work and get the paths right for us.   I didnt buy to beta test and find the bugs.   I want to use it like I can use poser 6.
   I will not use it anymore untill a service pak is released and hope it fixes some of the problems I have with it.
  I am glad some are not having problems.  Only wish I were one of those. :)

Iloco: It's bloody weird isn't it???

Where do you think the problem lies then? With Poser or Vue??

Yes it's weird.
 I think its more a poser 7 problem than a vue problem.   Just my opinion. :)

The problem is 100% with E-Frontier.  If ita cannot save the pathnames correctly in the PZ3 scene file, then there is no way for Vue to know how to import the files.  Fixer, Vue will work with either compressed or uncompressed files.  The problem when using compresses obz/crz files, is that Poser saves the pathnames incorrectly in the PZ3.  For now, the safest thing to do is to use Poser 6 and forget Poser 7 for now.

I hear what you're saying but I'm not having a problem with P7 imports!! [unless I compress my content].
It's quite baffling!

WEll I remember a similar problem with one of the early vue versions and poser, and vue fixed it. Before that I had to put all my textures into my bitmaps folder in vue to make vue and poser work. Love esther

OK I don't want to keep banging this drum but it just happened again!!
Bought new content for P6 and forgot to uncompress the content, used it and imported into Vue6Inf as a Poser7 scene and some props didn't load!

Uncompressed my P6 and P7 again to deal with the new content and hey presto, props imported ok now!!

I know you guys don't like the idea but as far as my import problems go they are entirely due to compressed stuff in my poser runtimes, no question!!
It's happened too many times now and each time after I install new content in Poser 6 or 7 and forget to uncompress!

Fixer,

The problem is that there are Poser bugs courtesy of E-Frontier when saving scene files using compressed obz and crz files.  When a cr2 is compressed into a crz, it hardcodes the path to the obz file.  When you save out a scene into a PZ2 file using these compressed objects, Poser just dumps the hardcoded path of whatever was in the crz or obz.  So unless your runtime heirarchy exactly matches what was saved out as the path for the obz files in the PZ2, Vue has no way of knowing how to find this.  E-Frontier must fix this bug to save out the correct pathname (not the hardcoded one) in order for it to work correctly in Vue. 

dburdick: Forgive my stupidity here on this, what exactly are you saying? Is the information in a compressed file different in someway to an uncompressed one [apart from the compression] and that different information is causing this or what?

If that is the case then why don't people make sure all their runtimes are uncompressed as I have done including remembering to do new stuff you put in.
There is no question that this has solved all my import problems 100%

I'm not trying to start anything, I just don't get it, and I really want to understand why uncompressing works for me but not for others apparently, sorry!!

Poser always writes references to the OBJ file, never the OBZ.
So what Vue isn't doing that Poser does, is to look for an OBZ if the OBJ doesn't exist.

It is probably the case that the Poser SDK doesn't replicate Poser's search behaviour, or if it does, E-on have chosen not to use it.
Similarly with handling compressed geometry.

Here is a quick example which demonstrates the path problems using the Poser SimonG2 figure:

My actual Runtime path:

Runtime:libraries:Character:HUMANS:!Poser 7:SimonG2

Using the COMPRESSED crz/obz Simon, this is the path that is saved out in the PZ2:

figureResFile :Runtime:libraries:Character:Poser 7:SimonG2:SimonG2.obj
actor BODY:1

This is incorrect - as it has saved out a non-exisitent path

Using the UNCOMPRESSED cr2/obj Simon, this is the path that is saved out in the PZ2:

figureResFile Runtime:libraries:Character:HUMANS:!Poser 7:SimonG2:SimonG2.obj
actor BODY:1

This is correct

When using compressed character objects, Poser saves out the hardcoded path of the obj based on what is in the crz file. This is a bug. 

If you uncompress the crz/obz (example 2), then Poser saves out the correct runtime path. 

Most people who use the standard runtime hierarchy when installing their characters will not experience problems.  Others like me, who organize their runtimes with a different hierachy will have problems when using compressed crz/obz files.  There are two workarounds for this problem until E-Frontier fixes this bug:

1. Uncompress the crz/obz files
2. Construct your runtime hierarchy to match the default Poser hierarchy

Thanx for that very concise explanation, I understand better now, I will keep Uncompressing my content when I add it so I don't have problems then!!