I am trying to turn my mouse bodysuit into a conforming clothing item.

What I did so far ... I took the model into Poser and fit it to the mouse.  Then, I deleted the mouse and took the bodysuit into the Setup Room.

Then, I had made a note of the bones that I would need for my bodysuit in advance, so I grouped the polygons in groups with the names of the bones I would need (hip, abdomen, chest ... and so on).

Then, because the Poser manual said it could be done this way, from the Setup Room I added a new figure (the mouse again), which brought the mouse bone structure into the Setup Room.

Then, I deleted all the bones I didn't need (tail, fingers .....).

Hmmm .... well now I have my nine groups set up, and I've got my nine bones, but my NOBONES group is also full.  Apparently assigning the polys to groups with the same names as the bones was not what I needed to do to assign those polys to those bones.  NOBONES contains all of the polys of the entire bodysuit.

I've been through Dr. Geep's tutorial, which is fine, as long as you are creating the bones from scratch.  However, it doesn't address the supposed short cut of using an existing bone structure for a new character.

Is there a step I'm missing?  I've been staring at this thing for over an hour now, and I'm not making any progress.

Help??  Anyone??  I'd really like to finish up this part of the project.

Try selecting the nobones group and delete group but check after that to see if all the polygons are assigned to groups.

Try doing it in two stages. Stay in the pose room and use the grouping tool to assign the polygons to groups. Ensure that polygons are only in one group. Ensure that when all are assigned correctly you go through each group and weld group.

Now export as an OBJ. In the export options select "keep existing groups"

Delete the model in the scene. Import the grouped one and now continue in the set up room to apply the mouse bones.

I use UVMapper to do my grouping. I find it easier than using the Poser grouping tool. In my 3D modeler I "colour code" the mesh by setting the polygon's material colour. In UVMapper I can then select by matterial and assign to group.

Once the groups are assigned I can continue by assigning the finished materials and do the UV mapping.

Hello rickymaveety,

I have a couple of questions.  Do you plan on distributing this clothing item and what mouse figure are you using?  If you plan on distributing your clothing item then you will need to make a base conformer out of the mouse figure.  Before you use it in the set up room.  There is a very good tutorial on this at   http://www.morphography.uk.vu/index.php  If you are using daz's mouse then I suggest opening up the Cr2 in John Stalling's Cr2 editor ( also available at the link) and seeing if their are any lines that have geomCustom,  or alternateGeom too.

Cheers,
Patorak

P.S. Pick up morph manager while you're at morphography

Thank you Phil.  And thank you Patorak.

I will try it that way.  I already assigned the groups in Poser, although I was going to try doing it in UV Mapper.  I'm not certain that I would have been able to do it easily in Rhino since my mesh was all one piece (the arms were each one piece and the bodysuit was once piece, I mean.)

However, doing it in Poser wasn't hard ... just a little time consuming, but I had the TV on so the time went quickly.  I am certain I have the groups set up correctly with no poly in two groups (except for the NOBONE group).

I am planning on distributing this clothing item as a freebie, so I will look into the base conformer issue.  This is the first I've heard of this .... I thought you just had to zero the figure.  So, I'll check out that link today.

Eeeeesh.  Hard work for a hobby.

You're welcome,  keep up the good work. 

Read through the tutorials, but I never saw the phrase "base conformer" used.  Are you talking about the need to bring the mesh for the figure in from the Runtime directory rather than as a posed and zeroed figure from the library??

If so, then I think Phil or maybe Quest told me about that early on.  So, my body suit was modeled on the mouse mesh from Runtime.

If not, then I'm still not sure what a "base conformer" is.

Hello rickymaveety,

A base conformer is a CR2 ( Character Reference 2 ) that has all of the copyrighted morphs removed.  Material references are removed as well. 

See,  your clothing item is actually two important parts.  The OBJ file,  which is the mesh,  and the CR2 file,   which is the engine that drives the mesh.  This is the norm for all poser figures.

Now,  when you took your figure into the set up room and loaded the mouse for it's bones
( rigging ),  poser loaded both the mouses OBJ and the mouses CR2 files for you to use.  The obj is there it's just invisible.  And the CR2 is where the bones are coming from.

The mouses CR2 ,  has  many levels of embedded code with data for geometry call up,  rigging,  morphs,  and material.  Some of this data is copyrighted by the developer,  such as morphs or embedded geometry.  When you see a CR2 that has it's distribution restricted it's usually because of said morphs or embedded geometry.  ( Note because of embedded geometry universal poses and universal conformer programs and scripts,  will not work with some figures.)

Side note:    When you used posers grouping tool,  poser automatically created a new mesh for your clothing item.   You'll find it in the folder you save the clothing item to.

Now,  when you left the set up room,  the engine driving your mesh is, believe it or not,  the mouses CR2 only the OBJ ( mesh ) has changed.  Remember the two important files OBJ,  CR2.  And inside that engine ( CR2 ) is still the copyrighted data,  and if you distribute it without taking it out,  then the developer of the mouse will be asking you to please don't do that.

So this brings us back to the copyright free base conformer.  Which in essence is the mouse's CR2 file( engine ) with all the copyrighted data removed.   Making it free to distribute.

If you have any questions on how to make a base conformer feel free to ask. 

Cheers,
Patorak

Ah, ok.  Got it.  I copied the mouse CR2 into a new file called HM Bodysuit CR2 and I will remove everything that I can figure out needs to be removed.  I would hate to delete anything necessary to get the bodysuit to work properly.

Also, Phil, I see what you mean about using UV Mapper to assign the groups.  It really is a lot faster than doing it in Poser.  When I re-cut and flattened the mesh in UV Layout, it deleted all of my groups (so tediously set up in Poser), so I thought, since I had to re-do them, I would give UV Mapper a try.  Seems to be working beautifully.

Hi rickymaveety,

Back in the day we used to strip a CR2 of it's morphs and replace the geometry call with our own geometry and create an instant conforming clothing item.

BTW here is a good tutorial on rigging.    http://www.bryceworks.com/tutorial/mushbone/mushbone.html

Cheers,
Patorak

Does it matter that it's a tutorial for something called PoserPro Pack??  I don't have that.

It doesn`t matter, the propack tutorial will work in newer versions of poser.

The tutorial has been done using the mac version of poser so most of the menus look different

Oh, ok ... thanks.

Well, I've got to back up a step or two.  I thought I had modeled based on the mouse from the geometries library ... but I may have screwed up.

So, I'm going to start fresh tomorrow.

What were your results?

I should keep track of this. Tried rigging on P4, maybe P5 would be easier.

"What a filthy job!
Could be worse...
Coult be raining" - Young Frankenstein...;)

My results from using the wrong mouse as a dress dummy??  The ends of the sleeves (the wrist ends) were all screwed up.

I decided to just shorted the sleeves a bit to take care of it instead of going through the whole process again.

The problem is (and what I didn't realize), is that you can't just zero a figure and then export it from Poser.  In the case of the mouse, the zero pose has the hands at a slightly different angle than the actual mouse mesh.

An interesting size note ... the actual mouse mesh has the tail kind of "strung out" .... I've attached a picture.  It's interesting.  I suppose the mesh is like that to give the tail more flexibility??  In any event, when zeroed, it's more all of one piece.

I suppose the lesson from this is .... before you start trying to model clothing for a character, know you model, inside out and sideways.

Hi Everyone,

rickymaveety,  I'm sorry two things have slipped my mind about your figure.  The first is check your CR2 for the following line "  geomCustom  ",  if it's in there we'll walk you thru the steps to remove it.  The second is you'll need the hand and feet bones from the mouse for your figure as well. 

pakled,  if you are interested,  we are doing some rigging tests in the poser forum over at http://theartdoor.com

Cheers,
Patorak

Oh, my ..... I don't think that tail spacing is normal.  I think my House Mouse obj file may have gone berserk.

I never over wrote it, but large chunks of the geometry seem to be missing now.  I didn't overwright the CR2 file now, although I did open it and save it under another name to study it.  Oh, crap.  Not good.

Quick question .... aside from my little mouse problem.

I can see why I would need the hand bones ... but why the feet??  I would think I would just need the neck and thighs.

Do you need the feet for spacing purposes??

And, while were on the issue of geometries, if my original mesh is disappearing in chunks, is it because I somehow altered my original CR2 file?  All I did was open it, save it under a new name and that was it.

Feet?  I'm sorry I meant the shin bones.  Have you checked your CR2 for the line  
"  geomCustom  ",   yet ?  You'll need to use a text editor for that.   Also at anytime did you use poser's grouping tool?  Either in the set up room or pose room.  If so,  check the folder you saved your CR2 to and see if there is an OBJ file in there.  If there is then you will need to use that OBJ in your CR2 instead of your original OBJ.  

Anytime you use poser's grouping tool,   poser automatically creates a new mesh from your original mesh. 

Cheers,
Patorak

You certain you don't mean the thigh bones??  They are the next ones off the hip.

I created my groups (on the new bodysuit) from UV Mapper.

I've got my renamed CR2 file I can work with.  I haven't checked for the custom geometries yet, I will, I had to go walk the dogs, then I have a contract to write, then I have to make a cheesecake for a party tomorrow.

Eeeeek ..... and meanwhile, I wonder how my HM got so screwed up??

Do you have a lThigh and rThigh group?  If so then yes include the shin bone.  BTW what modelling program are you using?  As for UV Mapper I never had much use for it.  I prefer UV Mapper Pro.  It's well worth the investment.  

Cheers,
Patorak

No .... I have in the body suit part, just chest abdomen and hip.  No thigh ... which is why I thought I would only need to add the thigh bone since it is the first bone out of the loop.

I am using Rhino for my modeling.

I don't use UV Mapper ... I use UV Mapper Pro.  However, I also use UV Layout in order to flatten and rotate my UVs.  Rotating the model is too much of a pain in the rear.

I am now a little scared to alter my CR2 file.  Ever since my house mouse mesh began to disappear.  It was fine until I opened up that CR2.  

Sheesh.

Are you using DAZ's house mouse?  As for the CR2 don't ever be afraid of experimention. On my current project,  By a new grouping system,  I've created a way to get articulation in the hip i.e. yrotate(twist),  zrotate(bend),  and xrotate(side-side) without moving the whole figure.  The hip now twist bends and moves side to side without rotating the whole figure all around.  Now.poser would not weld these groups.  The mesh kept tearing,  so I opened up the CR2 in a text editor and rewrote the weld commands.  It's really easy once you get the hang of it.   BTW Here are the results.

Cheers,
Patorak

Looks nice.  But then I wonder why my mesh is disappearing??  Yes, it is the DAZ House Mouse I am using as my dress model.

It sounds like some of your normals are reversed.

Do a render and post the results