After working with her all day I think I've had enough trying to figure out what dial moves what part of her body. Thinking I've got a semi decent character created until I do a final render and each and every time she looks like some stinking anime doll. Most times the textured shaded version looks 10 times better than the final render! Each time I can't help but think Judy when I see her on the screen and I never even worked with Judy! 

I'm trying very hard to stay optimistic with V4, but I love how V3 just molds into what you want in a matter of a few minutes to maybe a handful or two more. For instance, V3 has the inner thigh morph that as you know allows you to change the look of only the inner thigh portion...but it's nonexistant on V4, and I think you have to expand the thighs/hips and then use another to reduce the whole inner thigh/hip area so that's like going from one simple dial to 2 dials that move a far greater portion of mesh...isn't that like taking a giant leap backwards?? Plus it doesn't work the same way as V3's dial, you'll probably end up with hips the size of barn doors when you're done. I just don't feel that all the morphs are there for V4 I bought the extra package for it. Some of the morphs are restricted, you can only go positive on some, never negative and again I don't care for the pre made character dials, the Monica, the Eva etc. Let those be extras, but give me the dials V3 had in sense of control over the facial features.

Then comes the texturing, what the was DAZ thinking when they chopped up Vic like some maniac with an axe? Trying to make textures for her, and I kept getting dark lines around the arm pits and upper thighs, which only caused incredible amount of unneeded work to fix. Figured out that I needed to carefully use the color dodge tool around the seams to lessen the color as they over lapped and created that line. Only then if the limbs are a shade darker you generally will not see the difference but you try to do a fantasy texture...good luck! Your limbs are going to look 10 degrees darker than the torso, then I'm getting a white line on the brow since the back of the skull is one template and the face is on another....you can't see it when you have a one of the texture kits on, but give her a blue or green hue and you'll see it. 

The word is on the tip of my tongue and I try hard to not say it each time I try to produce a decent figure, I keep telling myself, keep working on it, you'll get it...but my headache is reminding me how it came to be in the first place, so as of today...I'm gonna say that word that I've held back each time I've brought V4 out to mess with and that is I think V4 is a load of crap. That's my word of the day for V4...it might change, as I'm stubborn enough to keep trying.

As a whole figure she's better than V3 in sense of movement and look, she can do facial expressions...but for the fine details I feel like I've been given half the product of what V3 was. Granted DAZ did say V4 was a new product in sense of how they built her, but someone at one point made a good comment, they should have named her something completely different if she's that "new" meaning she's got to get better with time right? Isn't V3 better than V1? And working with her since she came out, almost a month now, I can't help but shake my head in disappointment, she's not an improvement to V3, she's a new figure, complicated one at that. Signing off to go take some well needed asprin and drag myself to bed in defeat, V4 won again!! Dang it!

Well you'l get both positive and negative responses to your post soon enough, so let me just quickly say that i agree with you on the UVs at least. I havent ever seen such badly designed UV maps.

Not only are they setup in insane ways (Ears the size of the torso ?) they have severe stretching issues in some places like behind the shoulders and on the hands/feet. And a bloody seam right in the middle of the thighs as well as at the shoulders. It's like some newbie modeller found a crappy pelting tool for the first time and went nuts with it while drunk. Which is why the people doing textures for her have my utmost admiration.

DAZ though, should be ashamed of themselves.

The concept behind V4 was not to make the most versaitle and realistic Poser figure possible, but to make her easier to handle for beginners and also to make cloth creation easier for less adept merchants.

So, while she's a godsend for new users who can get better results faster than what they could get with V3, for those of us who create our own characters and strive for greater realism and accuracy, she's a big letdown.

She's more "user friendly", but the added tech in her cr2 (30 JCM's and 69 magnets), as well as her limited/restricted morphs  quickly become a problem when you use her in ways besides dialing the native FBM's or injecting a premade character.

:blink:

And while her arms/shoulder joints are great, her legs and thighs still have A LOT of problems to bend like a human being.
Not to mention the missing bodydetail. (Kneecaps and shoulders)

After I'm finished transferring her excellent (Although not quite as good as MIKI's) expression morphs over to V3 and other meshes, I doubt I'll bother to ever use her again.
I get far more realistic results by using V3 based characters.

So while V4 is easier to use than V3, she's also a lot more stubborn than V3 if you try to push her beyond your average toony big boobed cheesecake render.
(Nothing against cheesecake and big boobs. I infact love cheesecake and big boobs. But I prefer realistic big boobed cheesecake and I don't need DAZ to hold my hand while posing and morphing.) :laugh:

So always remember:

WAR is PEACE,
Vicky 4 doesn't look toonish. You look too average.
4000x4000 textures = Mandatory for 1200x800 gallery renders.
Kneecaps ? We don't need no stnkn kneecaps
It's not a bug, it's a feature

 :biggrin:

'make-art-button' anyone?

I'm still waiting impatiently for the extra morphs, I need to create!!!

how about creating some extra morphs?

"how about creating some extra morphs?"

amacord - If I lived in a world where I didn't have to go to work for 12 hours a day & I could spend all day in Poser, then maybe yes I would. All I ask is that the new figure have similar morphs as V3 then I can continue to create my characters. So much of my free time is now spent in Vue that Poser is getting neglected.

You can have my earless morph...  :tt2:

@ stormchaser excellent! propably the only answer to silence my offending tongue...:) still, dialing a couple of morphs is one thing, 'creating' your own morphs ('if you try to push her beyond your average toony big boobed cheesecake render' - as joe said) is the completely different. apart from that, no matter how many prefab morphs you buy, they will never be enough, imho. give it a try!;) wasn't it edison who said this thing about 10% inspiration and 90% transpiration? A. ps: if you are good with vue, pls take a look at this thread: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=2871780&ebot_calc_page#message_2871780 this one is driving me crazy!!!

*The concept behind V4 was not to make the most versaitle and realistic Poser figure possible

*Well, according to DAZ descriptions of V4 their goal was to create the most versatile and realistic poser figure possible, so I'm not sure what you base your statement on, but if you read all of DAZ's promotions and descriptions of V4 she sure was created to be the most most versatile and realistic poser figure available anywhere..... she's supposed to be the best of the best.

I know how to use Wings3D, Poser Magnets, Silo and Z-Brush, so I'm able to morph any mesh into any shape I want.
(See pic)

But why would I want to I waste my time re-creating basic morphs ?

And why should I deny those people who don't have the talent or time to learn a modeling programm the chance to create something new by mixing premade morphs ?

Look at moggadeet's characters:
http://moggadeet.ellpro.com/

All made by dial spinning stock DAZ morphs only.
I doubt you find many completely custom made morphs for M3 or V3 of that quality.

And I doubt something like that will be possible with M4 if he's similarly short on head morphs as V4 is.
(Unless you buy the M4 head morph extention pack.
And the REALLY COMPLETE M4 head morph extension extension pack.
And the super special M4 head morph extension pack PRO)
:tt2:  :tt2:  :tt2:

@ailkema: Read this thread:
http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=51385

In the very last post on page 3 Will Dupre says that some of V4's bending problems could have been fixed, but the necessary JCM morphs would have made clothing creation harder and thus more expensive.

So DAZ sacrificed realistic bending in favor of a greater/faster output of cheap clothing.

At least that's my interpretation of his words, but please read for yourselve.

What keeps my puzzled, though, is why V4 has more than twice as many JCM's than V3, and how top end merchants like Wusamah and AerySoul who put quality above all can make a living ?

And why V4 products are more expensive than V3's ?

Quote -
And why V4 products are more expensive than V3's ?

Oh the answer is more than easy. A new cow has to be slaughtered.

At the moment i am also very disappointed because V4 is not a better figure than V3. She is better at posing and at doing expressions. Yep that is really nice but from beeing realistic she is whole galaxies away from. At the moment i will stick to V3, SP3 and especially Aiko 3, who has become a favorite of mine a few months ago, although i have her since her release. In case of V4, i wait till she is updatet "soon".

Cheers from Germany

Marko

For me the jury is still out. I am waiting to see what textures and characters my favorite merchants will come up with to make V4 come alive and of course this is a subjective view as I can't make realistic textures, and a good character base helps as a foundation for my own thing, sadly I am not a brilliant artist no matter how hard I try.

I am also waiting for the extra V4 body morphs that are supposed to be arriving sometime in January, until these things happen I will not buy V4.

My main concern at present is that the enthusiasm for merchants to create new things for V3 will fly out of the window and if I am left with the choice of V4 as she currently stands, then buying anything for this product is over for me.

As I said previously in another post:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2678319

V4 has no charisma and this view is entirly subjective. I am waiting patiently to see if my view gets changed - I hope it does.

I also agree with a previous poster who said that DAZ3d should not have called her V4, V4 is not a continuation of V3 as far as I am concerned.

Here's a bit of info, did you know that you can change the restricted negative morph settings via the morph's properties? Simply add a higher value for the min/max values!

Examp: Min value= -0.2000 (Default) to -1.0000, or even -20.0000 if ya want!

THIS!

TO THIS!

Hope that helps!

Here's a couple of examples that I posted in earlier threads!

JoePublic

Quote - V2LO made to look like Emma for V4

For somebody who was on about realism, you could have picked a better mascot.

Quote - JoePublic

Quote - V2LO made to look like Emma for V4

 

For somebody who was on about realism, you could have picked a better mascot.

:thumbupboth: A.

@ JoePublic i know, curiosity killed the cat, still there' one thing i would really like to know: which of the applications you call your own allows you to transfer v4-morphs to v3?

Quote - What keeps my puzzled, though, is why V4 has more than twice as many JCM's than V3, and how top end merchants like Wusamah and AerySoul who put quality above all can make a living ?

Because they have no morphs. Well they have lots of morphs to open them, etc., but nothing to fit them on something other than the default figure or the stylized form that AerySoul has (Not sure of the name of the character).

I have to agree, there's something definately "lacking" in the V4 department.

I was given V4 as a christmas present by a friend who purchased it for me.  They, (as well as I) found that for their money, what they "thought" they were getting, was pretty much an incomplete version.  Let me see if I can clarify this:

I purchased myself, V3 and her accoutriments.  V3, Body Inj's, Head inj's and high res textures.  Once purchased, that was about it.  The textures were great and rendered well, and there was a virtual pandora's box of injections   I could make a norse goddess, an African queen, or a navajo maiden, litterally, right out of the box.  All took work, but the tools were definately there.  I could also actually use a lot of v3's clothes on her with some adjustment, and the poses seemed to work pretty okay too.

Granted, I have the basic v4 package, standard res, which my friend was not aware of, but the "standard res" is horrible.   The idea that "wait, we're not finished yet, spend more money for expansive morphs....... when we make 'em" really annoys me.  They also took something i knew how to do, make body textures, and chopped it up into some seriously hard work.  Have they not figured out simplicity is bliss?   She doesn't play nice with any clothes I can find (except specifically for v4) and poses? forget it.

Yes, perhaps  i could learn wings, and whathave you, and make my own clothes for her.  I could get on the learning curve to create v4 some textures on my own, make my own pose sets....... so on so fourth.

Actually, those aren't my issues, specifically as I can paint clothes and so fourth..... but why would I go through all new schooling for textures and so fourth, when V3 works fine, and I don't have to BUY more?

I've been working with her for a while now, since i got her, and I have YET to create anything that renders out with any kind of clean look, that i'd even want to show my husband LOL.

Its possible in time more might come out for her to make her more versitile.  But, if i have to BUY it, then it looses its lustre for me.  Its hard to want to spend money on some of the fabulous textures and poses in the marketplace, when this figure may, or may not have a lot of support.  Its too "iffy" yet.  I'll just wait and see how it goes in popularity and support.

Well, I know this thread is about venting but personally for my needs she is really pretty out of the box and doesn't take allot to get her looking perfect for super heroine or goddess looks.  My only vent or gripe is that her mapping is just atrocious.  Cutting her thighs in half as well as that nicely done seam around her shoulder on either side just makes me cringe when I know there are allot of artists out there that like to work with bump and displacement.  So far when using ANY sort of displacement on her, it's just slightly off, will show and it's just too obvious.  A real disappointment  from my perspective!!   Other than that I will wait and see what going to happen in the way of updates and additions!

Attached Link: Moving morphs between different figures

He's having some success with a Python script that Cage is working on (see link).

Still no one else but me has commented on her lower lip (earlier thread that no one responded too in this forum). It doesn't morph (unless I somehow learn to make my own). Her lower lip looks almost identical in every character I see of her. It's basic shape can't change. I tried to make her look like a V3 character that I have made, I tried so hard but I just couldn't morph the lower lip enough. I want to use V4 as I love her expressions. But this lower lip problem is horrible as it really decreases her versititlity. I was able to use the morphing pen tool to make her have a divit down the middle of the lip but I couldn't really use it well enough to change the basic shape of the lip to make it look a bit more squarish and masculine rather than that banana shape. Love esther

now that's some good news! thx a lot, spanki, for info and link! A.

**I am going to respond to JoePublic's statement, whom I wuv, and am not slamming...don't get mad at me! LOL! OK.......

JoePublic says "The concept behind V4 was not to make the most versaitle and realistic Poser figure possible, but to make her easier to handle for beginners and also to make cloth creation easier for less adept merchants"

Are you NUTS?!!! I have been doing Poser6 for a year as of last friday! TaDa!!! But, V4 is not user friendly to beginners or Experts at all! She is....

#1 Ugly, even the best vendor has not created an attractive morph, those eyes look Postal!
And the Mouth shape is not versatle like a V4 (*lip shapes and curvatures)

#2 Even the best character creators(*and we have some damn good ones!) here in ren are turning out cookie cutter looking characters! You always KNOW it's a V4! She has 0 versatillity!

#3 She is ridiculusly overpriced! And the extra morphs needed to make her look passable would break and dicourage most beginners! When I started, I balked at getting 1 morph pak! Now I can't count the pose/morph paks! :) But a beginner besides pulling their hair out, would just turn their back on poser, cause every other day Daz comes out with a "New" or "Improved" way to make her passable! Daz is just getting Bank!

#4 I pity the new Vendor trying to eek out a living doing V4 stuff! You don't have the beauty and versatillity of "Fat, Old V3" Gads I think almost all Vendors of V3 morphs create Magic!  And I gladly fork over cash to them! LOL!

#5 Personally....I don't like her (*can you tell?), and I won't use her in the forseeable future! Not when great morph builders like Rhiannon, Christal, and Serpentus...gads I could go on, are doing Beautiful V3's!

This is only my opinion. And I wonder if there isn't a V3 like mesh available to select Daz Vendors? (*I KNOW there isn't, I was just saying it for effect!) 'Cause It is near impossible,  the way that she is maniacally sliced up, to make lovely stuff for. BUT!!! It does guarentee that almost NONE of the V3 stuff will be fitting her at all! Also all of those great DM, and Rhiannon, and Others Secound Skins don't work on Her! I have heard that even with the Daz supported CC or PhilC's Clothes converter...it is a chore to work out the kinks and bends on V4.   Which brings me to the last thing...

#6 She does not pose well at all! She doesn't have nearly the morphing parameter dial settings that V3 has! Oh yeah...her mouth goes sideways. Well, I can do that with a bit of post work too.

ThanX for the opportunity to vent, discuss and bitch about the wonderful new gal in our lives!
Vendors who do V3 products...I am always buying! :)
HuggerZ!
Ariana**

I had forgotten again to mention, my least favorite v4 thing......... that sticking out lower set of ribs.  Some may like it for fantasy / unrealistic figures with overexaggerated features...... but for anything else?

Pregnant?  Big belly, concaves at top, sticking out lower rib..... eghads!
Muscular........ still inhaling to the point of implosion sticking out lower rib
Thin.......... You cant make THIN without making ANOREXIC with that rib set!

Now i was suggested to use the dials, and i have.  You can make the rib stick out MORE, but not loose the concave dent under them making them stick out away from the bod...... ugh!

Hi Tiara! You forgot the distorted Collar bones too! Those puppies are the reason nothing V3 can be molded to that frame! They poke out like 4 inches if she were Human!
Ariana

Tiari .. There is a morph called belly smooth or something that fixes that rib issue.

Yea, tear her a new one folks.  Sheesh. 

Give folks a little while to get used to her and see what she needs and I'm talkin' about the folks that have the talent and the time and make a living at this not end users that are just out to trash this mesh.   If in 6 months your not happy then bitch and complain.  She's not been out of the gate a month yet and you want it all NOW NOW NOW!!  If you look at the morphs a little more closely (as hinted to you by GoM) you will find most of what you need until subsequent morph packs are released. 

How long has V3 been out now?? 3 years or so?  Yea, she has had like 3 updates from DAZ alone and multiple morph packs released from other supporting creators. 

I guess then content creators like DAZ and eF should not release anything until they have a PERFECT mesh to release and make sure they got a trunk load of morphs, textures and clothing to release right along side it so the market is flooded, folks are confused and pissed off because they are broke!! :lol:

Quote - **Are you NUTS?!!! I have been doing Poser6 for a year as of last friday! TaDa!!! But, V4 is not user friendly to beginners or Experts at all! She is....

#1 Ugly, even the best vendor has not created an attractive morph, those eyes look Postal!
And the Mouth shape is not versatle like a V4 (*lip shapes and curvatures)

Ariana**

I have to 100% agree on that one!  Most I've seen for sale have looked ugly and those eyes make it look like the broomstick was inserted just at the last moment ;-)

I started working on making a chr soon after I purchased but I'm so underwhelmed by her facial ugliness I may just fageddit :(

belly smooth, as i've used it either flattens her stomach MORE, making it stick out more, or warping it, its still not attractive.

As for "waiting until talented people make things"....... I have no real desire to buy more and be satisfied with the "workable morphs".  She should have been complete and in a package from the get go.  If everything i need is in a seperate morph package I have to purchase, that gets a little insane after a while, IMHO.

Again new things might be made for her, but at what cost, and at what limitations?  By Daz's own touting of her, V4 is supposed to be fabulous........ but she's not.   She will need a lot of work to be fabulous.   Though there are a lot of things I do like about her, they don't outweigh the shortcomings in my opinion.  A figure should be complete, on purchase, though I realize people have to make a living, V4 to me, comes off like "bait" for future purchases of ad on's.  Considering also the difficulty now required for now simply making textures........ these ad on's will in no way be as affordable as those for V3.

ThanX for agreeing Gil! Hey I'm born in the year of the dragon, I know what you mean! :)
HuggerZ!
Ariana

Uh, V3's base comes with virtually NO morphs!  You had to purchase a morph pack and the others like GND to really make V3 workable and likeable (at least that's the consensus of many).  Personally, for me, I found V3 to be hideous coupled with bend issues and rubber band arms and football player shoulders and a pin head.  Yea, some of it could all be morphed to get rid of quite a bit of it but the bending issues were a bit turn off for me.  V4 has more than proved that she's miles ahead of V3 in this area! 

Quote - "#1 Ugly, even the best vendor has not created an attractive morph, those eyes look Postal!" "Most I've seen for sale have looked ugly and those eyes make it look like the broomstick was inserted just at the last moment ;-)" Do you consider this ugly? Just trying to get some perspective here. Coldrake

I did say most - I haven't looked at ALL new V4 chrs ;-)  Your image shows a face that is neither ugly or pretty, just plain and plain doesn't make for good sales

An example is my chr wip - OK, not 'ugly' but not the pretty face that is attainable in V3 which is a big selling point IMO. I have done nothing more with this since I posted the image.....
My WIP

Quote - ThanX for agreeing Gil! Hey I'm born in the year of the dragon, I know what you mean! :)
HuggerZ!
Ariana

I was born in the year of the pig........boy was I born at the WRONG time!!!!
:cursing:

Quote - belly smooth, as i've used it either flattens her stomach MORE, making it stick out more, or warping it, its still not attractive.

I was pretty vocal about the belly through the whole process but I did find that the belly smooth used in moderation worked pretty well to eliminate the inhaling gut thing. Set to 1 it does look a bit weird by itself but .5 works pretty well and even .75. Best of luck with it though.

Quote - Do you consider this ugly? Just trying to get some perspective here. Coldrake

Features don't look like the result of extensive plastic surgery, so many people will say yes, she's ugly or not human-looking (sarcasm).

V4 was a big disappointment for me.

The lack of some of the muscle morphs in the morphs package was a serious let-down. I posted on the DAZ Plat forums and were told they were coming. Of course they never explained 'how soon is now'.

What's worse, I've had a heck of a time creating custom morphs for her. Most of my V3 characters were heavily modified using custom Maya Morphs, but I can't seem to use the same techniques for V4 - it's as if the vertices order is messed up.

For now I would recommend any user sitting on the V4 fence to simply use V3. At the moment V4 is, in my opinion, far from the versatile character that Daz advertised.

100% money back guarantee...

Quote - "#1 Ugly, even the best vendor has not created an attractive morph, those eyes look Postal!" "Most I've seen for sale have looked ugly and those eyes make it look like the broomstick was inserted just at the last moment ;-)" Do you consider this ugly? Just trying to get some perspective here. Coldrake

Coldrake, that's a very nice looking character. She reminds me of SP3 (and I like Sp3 a lot). Looks very natural and the texture is nice too. Her eyes are among the best I've seen with V4 so far. Yes she looks quite realistic to me as well. Though, I have to admit, I am no expert when it comes to making realistic renders and characters.

ramwolf: The point i was trying to make, is although both require a morph/inj package to work, when V3 went on the market, her's were available in a larger plethora of injections.  I do agree that V3 has shoulders that look like rubber bands when bent, and other bend problems, there's no denying it.

Where I find the let down, in the boiled down version, is "out of the box" V3 came with more.  V3's layout in injections to me, was also more clear.  I understand what "native american" and "polynesian" is, I do not know what "monique" and "eve" are.  The let down comes, when to have the options available in the Original V4 morph package, we have to make another purchase.

In fact, in the release of V3 (and M3 for that matter) the buyer was fully aware that the injections for body and head were seperate, and complete.  Though V4 also makes that clear, that unless its the package, you don't have them, its less clear that there's "more to come", and its an incomplete item.

Well, because I've got nothing better to do with my time, I've taken a note of all those that have bitched and moaned about V4, and in 6 months time I'll check over at the galleries and see how much you're using V4.

To be honest, I can't see no reason to moan...you don't have to buy her and if you did just get a refund.

As for being complete at purchase....name me anything in this field that is complete at release?

Well, I've already seen some fantastic stuff done with V4...so I suppose a poor workman will always blame his tools

As for overpriced...1. I bought the Pro version for about $35 - fantastic price if you ask me. 2. Ok, you go over to TurboSquid and get a mesh of the same quality...you'll be spending a 3 to 4 figure sum!

You know why I didn't buy V3? Because they always looked like V3...for me V4 has a more neutral look, which is far better for flexible character creation.

Cheers

cheers: Hindsight is 20/20 and you are probably correct.   If I do recall correctly, I avoided V3 at first simply because of the injections to which i was unfamilliar.  Perhaps, as I am older, I have become slightly less willing to accept change, or less able to adapt to something new.

I don't expect anyone to fully agree with my opinions, and yes, I probaby will use her.  Why not, as I actually have her.  Everything has its redeeming qualities, and V4 is no acception.  I just, perhaps, in my own paradigm, have not found those qualities yet

*Well, because I've got nothing better to do with my time, I've taken a note of all those that have bitched and moaned about V4, and in 6 months time I'll check over at the galleries and see how much you're using V4.

*Okay...What?..No seriously.

Isn't discussion supposed to happen in forums such as this? Critique is not bitching or moaning. Well sometimes it is, but it's not like you modelled the damn thing (or maybe you did..I wouldn't know). Artists critique things, they examine the tools available to them and talk about them. It's a part of being an artist, I think.  If I said to my friends that :"wow this canvas really sucks", I wouldn't expect them to be insulted. Or that my new tablet is difficult to use. The pen is too sensitive for my liking. Once people stop criticising art or tools, it's when you should be worried about. The moment that happens you know the art has lost it's meaning.

 Imagine this: V4 comes out and nobody says anything. That means she would have failed miserably. Nobody cares. Discussion at least shows you people care and are intrested about her. Discussion, critique...These things happen in the world of art all the time. Sometimes critique is the only thing that makes you better and forces you to improve.

  I can't know how I will feel in 6 months time but I do know how I feel know. Am I supposed to be true to the person I am now, or to the person I may or may not be in 6 months time? My views may change but that's how my life goes. Peoples views change all the time and that's what I think makes life damned intresting. My views change all the time. Right now, I'm starting to regret I ever wrote this, but I just hate when people want to end discussion because someone is "moaning" or "bitching". My apologies.

Quote - A figure should be complete, on purchase, though I realize people have to make a living, V4 to me, comes off like "bait" for future purchases of ad on's.  Considering also the difficulty now required for now simply making textures........ these ad on's will in no way be as affordable as those for V3.

You know when V3 first came out she was such a switch from V2 that she was ripped up in these very forums for almost 6 months. People hated her, no one wanted anything to do with her... why did Daz go and change teh UV mappings, the shoulders were/are horrible... Blah blah blah.

I had to write this because well, I am one of those who is willing to wait to see what happens with V4, and recalling back to when V3 first came out, I recall that she was NOT complete.

V3 Base was $39.95  - There were NO morphs in this package at all, yeah you could turn her head and move it up and down, but that was about it.

V3 Head INJections $35.95 - Oh good, now you could make her blink, a weak smile (still weak in my opinion,) and change a few other expressions. also included a few racial morphs, though not many.

V3 Body INJections $35.95 - Great, now she could go from anorexic super model to an overtly anorexic supermodel with huge implants... Just what we needed.

If you are counting... V3 Basic Features and Capabilities were originally over $100.00. This did NOT include any clothing packs (which BTW Daz did not release until about 1 week after V3.) V4 came with these basic capabilities, withthe purchase of a couple textures, and a clothing pack, I've yet to spend close to what I've had to spend to get V3 off the ground.

So she's not the greatest thing since neither was V3 originally. It took her until service pack 2 to actually start being somethng. Heck, there are people in these forums that will still gripe about her.

So I guess the basic message is, give her some time, to be honest if she is as bad as you say, then she can't get any worse can she. She bloody HAS to get better :)

Quote - V4 was a big disappointment for me.

The lack of some of the muscle morphs in the morphs package was a serious let-down. I posted on the DAZ Plat forums and were told they were coming. Of course they never explained 'how soon is now'.

What's worse, I've had a heck of a time creating custom morphs for her. Most of my V3 characters were heavily modified using custom Maya Morphs, but I can't seem to use the same techniques for V4 - it's as if the vertices order is messed up.

For now I would recommend any user sitting on the V4 fence to simply use V3. At the moment V4 is, in my opinion, far from the versatile character that Daz advertised.

Fully agree!
Actually V3 (and the multiples add morphs) is still the most versatile character.
I'm very dissapointed by V4... sure, that's easy to do "something" with her but difficult to work with precision.

Well, I got the Victoria 4 Complete package almost a month ago, and regardless of all the problems that this cute model has, I just love the high resolution textures that this package has, here's a really quick Firefly render that I just did with one of my favorite V4 poses, lol, I didn't do anything special with the lighting, and there's absolutly NO postwork on this image, it's fresh right out of the Poser 6 oven ^__^

Attached Link: V4 nude, in the reflection studio, no sword

See link for great body/bending shots of V4 (Nudity warning)

Here's my bottom line. None of the negatives in this thread get in my way, and: she's got lovely arms.

::::: Opera :::::

Really?  I hate her arms.

I just started and got both v3 and v4.  I'm trying my best to learn the V4 as I figure thats what most new creations are going to be geared to, but it really has been a pain.  

I like the glutes, smaller, better formed than v3, hate the arms - why is there no option to just make all of her arms  bigger?  The forearm is part of the upper arm, and that's just wierd.  The calves are annoying, why can't I make them fatter, instead of just more muscular, and then what about her ankle that looks like it will break....

I like the navel belly areal alot.
I don't mind her knees, (someone else mentioned that being a bad part, but I like them ok).

I  like her feet alot.

In the end though, here's the thing - from a beginners perspective and having tried them both in the last month - For me they both have the same amount of pros and cons, so maybe some of you just need to step back for a second and wonder if your in a rut with just loving the one you're used to.

V4 doesn't have the extensor definition of V3 on the forearms (backs of forearms) But the that wouldn't stop me using her. what has stopped me using V4 is I can't morph her lower lip much enough to make her look the way I want her to look using the stock morphs, and when I look at all the characters everyone has made for her the lower lip looks almost the same in all to me. Love esther