I was doing great in not responding to all the rants about V4 until I caught one small quote from Tiari,  "She should have been complete and in a package from the get go."  when she/he was refering to the usabilty of V4.  Please tell me what figure released for use in Poser came out with everything from the get go?  Everyone's, including mine, beloved Vicky 3?  Not even close.  Aiko?  Nope she went through several itinerations to get where she is today.  Stephanie, fa get about it.  Any of the CL/EF figures, don't make me puke.  Most of these rants, if translated into diferent products would go something like this.  I just bought my new Ford Mustang but I hate it.  The stereo doesn't have the pull out push in radio knobs so I can memorize my favorite stations like I can in my 72 Impala.  The car doesn't have window handles that I can use to roll down, I have to figure out when to release the switch so I can get just the right amount of air in.  Guess what people, V4 is a completely new product.  If you spent as much time bitching about her as you did working with her, you would be surprised at the results you can achieve.  Is she perfect, not by a long shot.  Is she as horrible as all of these make art button people play her out to be, not even by a longer shot.  When V4 gets achieves the longevity that V3 has and she still isn't workable, then bitch.  Until then, give those that create the wonderful products you see here and other sites a chance to create some more of the great things they make.

I finally got V4 after reading many of these posts, and though I am noticing some inherent troubles, like her seams when texturing, I really like the model overall. I find it easier to morph her, and I do like her added level of realism. At least to me, she bends better.

Granted, I still prefer figures like GND and Blackhearted Irina, but as the OP said, the product is new and people are still getting a feel for her.

By reading our forums, and doing some experimentation, I think I have the hang of her now. Took all of a night.

I think M1/V1 & M2/V2 were pretty complete from the start, it's a shame they don't make 'm like that anymore.

Even though V4 is a completely new product, they've spent years developing her and honestly if this is the result after such a long time developing her, then I'm wondering what they've been doing to her all this time......

That's where the problem is, even though they seem to take more time developing, it doesn't really show, it seems like with every new figure the quality is being compromised a bit more.

But I'm glad you like her and I hope she will become as good as you want her to be, but after such a long development time, I think people have the right to complain, you'd expect more the what has been released.

Well, I'll add my rant: she should be coded properly so prop and jaw/teeth body part parenting losses don't occur when using Point_At.  Criticize my criticism if you want, but I think V4 should show the basic figure functionality we get from other commercial figures.  In my house, V4 is back in her carton until this problem is fixed.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, so telling people to shut up is rather pompous don't ya think?

Quote - By reading our forums, and doing some experimentation, I think I have the hang of her now. Took all of a night.

Glad you're having fun with her, good luck :)

*Quote - "Please tell me what figure released for use in Poser came out with everything from the get go?"

*Apollo was pretty near complete as a base figure. No clothes or hair, but then I wouldn't expect that in the base figure pack.
Along with the figure in the original release were the equivalent of something like 400 morphs (positive/negative dial values), complete phonemes, hi-res texture maps, a fully morphable bodysuit, a scalp-beard figure (for facial/head hair), innovative ADS character poses (with scaling and morphs), and loads of full and partial conventional poses.
Many folk complained about the $99 price at the time, but look at what you'll end up paying for V4 base figure, her hi-res textures, morphs++, poses and her yet to come additional morphs (including phonemes that weren't in any of the initial packs).
Even if you don't like how his mesh was optimised (too few poly's for some) he still (for those that have him) measures up very well to any figure on the market IMO.

http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=392

Quote - Everyone's entitled to an opinion, so telling people to shut up is rather pompous don't ya think?

Humanity in general is rather pompous LOL! I've been told to shut up some much in my life I don't hear it anymore hehehe it's that whole thick skin thing  I guess. Some folks ain't happy unless they are stirring  the shite. LMAO!

I thought the title of this thread was perfect.  In fact I laughed as I saw Archie Bunker sitting in his easy chair and saying that to a TV show full of bitchy, complaining folks that were out of hand.  :lol:

As I've stated before.  Give it 6 months.  You will always have folks that are going to always love V3 and all her iterations but then your going to have the majority of folks that are using and supporting this wonderful mesh.

I'm so looking forward to DAZ Studio 1.5 which introduces smoothing and will really bring out many of the features more fully in this newly designed mesh!  So looking forward to that release! 

Actually, I laughed at the title of this post too.  SInce I'm quoted, I'm compelled to respond, even though i clarified myself in the, eghads, rant post.

V3, in the whole package, was indeed complete.  You got the base figure, the textures, the body injections and the head injections, and several poses.  It was pretty clear what you were getting.  If you've seen the original V3 injections list, in the body inj and the head inj, there is absolutely no denying its got twice what V4 has on her release.

V4, on the other hand, yes, you get the base figure, textures, body morphs, head morphs and some poses, it does not have the AMOUNT of morphs available to a brand spankin new packaged v3 out of the box.  I am certainly not the only one who noticed this, which is why there were Daz responses of "more to come".

V3 certainly had "more to come", but not in a near desperate way.  Mostly due to the fact she was so versitile to begin with, and contained much more in injections.

As I stated before, these are just my personal opinions, and frankly, as a figure in itself, V4 is just fine.  The point missed, is why I am let down.

In a nutshell, unless you can afford to break out your wallet again and again (and i certainly cant), there is only so useful V4 will ever be.  At least to me.  My expectation, as it should be, and as advertised, is that V4 was better, and should at least have the versitility that V3 was packing.

People can agree to disagree, this is only how I felt about the item.  For those working currently with V3 and thinking of purchasing V4, they should be aware that they will be required to purchase more to get the versitility they are used to.

Quote - V3, in the whole package, was indeed complete.  You got the base figure, the textures, the body injections and the head injections, and several poses.  It was pretty clear what you were getting.

Actually that's not true.
I bought V3 when she was first released and the head/body morphs and decent res. textures were all separate addon packs. 

The whole kit 'n' kaboodle cost a LOT more than V4 too...

edit: Just looked up the initial V3 pricing:

Base figure - $39.95
Head Morphs: $19.95
Body Morphs: $19.95
Univ. Hi-ResTextures: $24.95

.

As I said, "in the whole package", inj's, and high rez textures were available the day of her release.  I'd have to go back and check, its been a while how i got them, but I do know they were all available on the same day of my purchase, I bought it all at once.

V3's morphs were a lot more complete than V4's right out of the box.  V3's basic morphs are ridiculously versatile.  I can make almost any shaped woman with almost any face using V3.  I can't do that with V4's basic morphs.  More morphs will come out for V4, but frankly, I don't think it's fair to have to spend extra money to get the same versatility the old figure had either.

That's my biggest complaint about V4, it didn't build on the versatility of V3 and instead took a huge step back.  Giving you more posability controls, while taking away morph control is not a step forward.  Being able to pose V4 better, but having it look like the same person in every render doesn't give me something more to work with than V3.

Also one of V3's biggest complaints was that it was shaped like an amazonian super model.  So they make V4 in the shape of a petite super model?  Again... no progress...

V3 has the absolute largest library of products that can be used with it, with a ridiculously large range of genres.  So they release V4 without even so much as a basic clothing clothing pack with shirts, skirts, pants, etc.  V3 was released with that, as have many other figures.  They were so lazy, they didn't even bother converting some of their V3 content for V4, which could have been a workable holdover until artists got their mits on V4.

Maybe V4 will surpass V3, but it doesn't even come close now.  It seems like V4 was rushed out of the shop for Christmas and a month later, they still haven't made up for it.

I, for one, am grateful for what DAZ is doing. Overall their characters provide a great deal of flexibilty to create unique characters (at the expense of having morphs loaded and what not). I tried creating a human twice and it is an enormous undertaking. Of course if you chose this path you could have exactly what you wanted.

V3's been out for years; V4, what, maybe a month? Who knows what it will look like in 6 months or so? And I'm sure we have all dis bellyachin' to go through when V5 comes out (whenever that happens...;)

Yeah, V4 has just come out... but see that's my problem.  V3 was more veratile from day one.

That's what makes V4 so disappointing.

hoppersan2000, I don't use Poser nor do i use V4 as yet..just got the pro bundle for christmas from my son.

Anyway i was only going to say after reading your post i must admit i agree with you, yes i made a comment in another thread about Daz making sure everything was perfect on V4 before releasing her....Well sorry to say it like this all, No woman is perfect..
anway hoppersan thank you for your well put words and may your renders turn into camel fleas and bite you while you render

what woman is perfect, eh?
they all need a little tweaking!!! lol!

ohhhh gawd!
(hides head  knowing the attack about to come)

I like v4 and have no complaints so far.

Same here, love the new version and much more easier to manage than V3.

By the way has anyone here encountered any crosstalk problem with V4?

"By the way has anyone here encountered any crosstalk problem with V4?"

Yes...she is always talking to other characters while I'm trying to watch the boxing match.

Incredibly annoying....and rude too.

8 )

Tom

Well..as has been said.

Nobody is perfect.

That's what makes women so endearing.

8 )

Tom

Yup, well said. Sigh.... women.   

LOL!!!

..wish I could find the INJ-morphs for my wife...

She better not read that ;-)

Quote - ..wish I could find the INJ-morphs for my wife...

Any plastic surgeon can help you with that. but I hear those kind of morphs are kind of expensive. ;)

Unfortunately there are no dials to get the results one wants, it's usually the surgeons determination while you are under the knife and your passed out, drugged up and don't care.  I had a friend that wanted a little augmentation and she asked for a full C cup.  She was getting older and wanted her boobs to sag a little less.  She walked out of there with a D cut.  She gave it 6 months, went back to ask for them to reduced to the size she asked for in the first place.  The doctor had retired but recommended her to another plastic surgeon so she had to PAY to correct something that someone did to her.  That was an expensive lesson!  She looks great now but she was not happy about the amount of money she doled out in the end!

Any woman that wants tweaking I'm quite willing to do it for you ;)

Rob W. posted "There coming" as a response in a DAZ forum topic about V4's muscle morphs.  The post was made on 12/9, and there is no word a month later. But from what I've read on the forums, there is not much interest in accurate muscle morphs anyway.  Guess that puts me in the minority, since I prefer to create muscular female characters.  V4 is pretty useless to me without the more specific muscle morphs.

I think if we don't complain about the bits we don't like no one will improve her. I really mainly want some decent lip morphs. And it's just natural to mention that V3 had lots and that i"m disappointed V4 doesn't have as many. And no, I can't make them or learn how to make them , but thanks if that's what you were going to suggest. I'm happy with all the V4 expression morphs - they are great. However in almost every render V4 lower lips look the same from one character to the next. Love esther

Ester .. what lip morphs are missing to you? Just wondering. I posted a what morphs are missing post at DAZ so I could maybe fill in the gaps but nobody really posted except one about spandex (which I am looking into).

Hi - oh thanks for writing back. well I had a v3 character and I tried to make my 4 look like her, and I was doing well until I got to the lower lip.. It's really mainly thelower lip. You can't make a divit in the middle except with the morhing brush (which I did), but altering the sides of the lower lip was impossible for me. So it always has that banana shape, which is the most comoon shape when you look around at real people. I think really just all the options that V3 had for moprhing the lower lip would be absolutely great. R u going to try and make some? I would be buying. I really want to use V4. I think her chin could use a few more morphs too. And her forehead could use a few morphs. some people have a kind of line down the middle of their foreheads or a bump at the front. Oh and her top lip. Some people have a kind of puckered look to the middle too. I hope you know what I mean. Love esther

Oh I have noticed that at least one person that sells some V3 and V4 hair have used a V3 for their promo images. I think it's hard to make V4 really pretty because of these lack of lip morphs. Love esther