Hi all,

We all know that the manual that comes with Poser 7 is pretty useless, being basically the same as the Poser 6 version and the Poser 5 version and... well you get the idea.

Can anyone recommend one of the commercial Poser 7 manual/guides?

Poser 7 revealed by Kelly L Murdock is one possibility but that is an Official guide and I fear it might be as useful as the manual that comes with Poser 7 (ie not very!)

Practical Poser 7 by Denise Tyler is another book I have seen online.

Does anyone have any experience of either of these books... or maybe another one?

Thanks for the help,

Isaac

I haven't seen any of them but I would suggest that if someone offers to sell you a book on Poser7 by Shamms Mortier you run a bloomin mile in the opposite direction.

I would get Practical Poser 7 by Denise Tyler over Poser7 revealed
Denise is often in this forum i believe her name is Deecee you could always chat with her about it

From my experiences in the previous books, 

Practical Poser is a tell all/be all "Here's this, here's what it does and here's how to do a few things to get you started learning" excellent book, awesome illustrations to go with it.

Poser X  Revealed is more of a text book, I actually used Poser 6 Revealed in an online class when I first started learning P6.  It's a great book, but, yeah, it's like the manual with lessons thrown in...still a good book for reference purposes, and a little more detailed then the shipped manual.

Though I like both books, I would highly recommend PP7 as a first buy.  You will probably like it better.

I was asked to do the technical editing for Practical Poser 7. I found it to be well written and covered the various topics thoroughly. I am happy to recommend it.

I received a fee for editing. I do not expect to receive any income from the sale of the book. I have not read either of the other publications mentioned above.

Lynda.com also has a new

Poser 7 Essential Training
with: Larry Mitchell =============================================================================================================

They are video trainings. I have't taken it yet but I intend to.
cheerio
lululee

Attached Link: http://www.eclecticacademy.com/classrooms.htm

WHY you want to use a button/control is not what the Poser manual is designed to do.  That's what secondary books, tutorials, and video training sites are for.  Electicacademy also offeres an on-line Poser 5 class for $25.  I took it a long time ago plus some of their other courses.  I highly recommend them for a great learning experience. 

Just got my copy of Practical Poser 7 yesterday - first flip through looks like it will be a great read - lots of goodies on the CD too!

I wholeheartedly disagree with that assessment of a software manual.  It should contain all of the functionality of the software, yes.  It should also be explanatory or tutorial in how to actually use the software either integratedly with the function or separately (more prefered).  Expecting people to rely upon third-party books, classes, and videos for such things is like selling cars without tires - that you then need to buy separately!

The manual doesn't have to be thorough in usage regards, but it must have enough information that a new user can run, configure, and use the software at at least the novice level.  And the usage/tutorials could be a separate manual or included videos or whatnot.  As long as it's not snake oil on the side.  See, otherwise I return the software and buy one that does have this. ;)

Somewhat offtopic, but reading this made me want to buy the new VUE book and a Poser book. So I go to www.indigo.ca Now I am not one for ordering books online, but every bookstore I call doesn't have these, can't order these, no idea how to get these except online.

Do any Canadian Poser or VUE artists know how I can get these books please?

I haven't tried either of the v7 books, but I have both Poser 6 Revealed and Practical Poser 6. The 'revealed' book was a disappointment to me - very simple coverage, didn't go into the more advanced aspects very much at all. Deecee's book was much better and by all accounts this edition is better still.

In the end, it depends on what you level you are looking for of course.

Warangel I don't know if it's any help but Amazon has Practical Poser 7 available for $29.47

Thanks guys for all your comments.

I do appreciate that a manual can't cover everything, but the supplied Poser 7 manual doesn't even mention some of the parameters that are part of some of the functions. Check out Roughness as a parameter of the Glossy shader node, for example.

It looks like Practical Poser 7 for me then, especially when it comes recommended by a Poser guru like PhilC ;)

Thanks again :)

Isaac

Warangel: I agree with Lucifer_The_Dark. I have seen a huge decrease in Indigo (Chapters) inventory and ordering options here in the Kitchener area. I was actually told that if I wanted an out-of stock Lightwave book that I could order it through them and they would deliver it to me for additional $7.50. So, in effect I was paying for the fact that they didn't have it on their shelf. I went to Amazon.ca and found the same book I was searching for, delivered to my door in 3 days, for $25% less than Chapter's advertised price. Indigo is a good place to have a coffee, browse or purchase if you're flexible with available titles, but it's hard to beat Amazon.

(Can I blush now?)

Wow ... I am speechless! Seriously! Thank you so much, everyone! 

(EDIT ... OK, I have to add more. This REALLY means a lot to me ... my mom passed away only a week before I started this book. I poured my heart and soul into it, thinking of her every step of the way. It means more than you know to hear the reactions, and it really brought a tear to my eye.)

And Phil, most especially thank you for your fantastic technical editing!!! You rock! 8-)

yep, one more "yes" vote from me on deecey's book. and it appears shams won't be writing one this time :lol:

Actually, Practical Poser took the place of the previous Shamms books ;-)

I didn't realize Deecey had written a new one! I gotta get my hands on it!

The Poser 6 one was fantastic. I learned a lot from that book.

Sorry to hear about your mother Deecey. I know the loss of a parent, and it's never easy. Kudos to you for pouring your love for her into the book, it can only serve to have improved on what was already a great work.

(((hugs)))) Thank ye muchly 8-)

Quote - (Can I blush now?)

Wow ... I am speechless! Seriously! Thank you so much, everyone! 

(EDIT ... OK, I have to add more. This REALLY means a lot to me ... my mom passed away only a week before I started this book. I poured my heart and soul into it, thinking of her every step of the way. It means more than you know to hear the reactions, and it really brought a tear to my eye.)

And Phil, most especially thank you for your fantastic technical editing!!! You rock! 8-)

Yes, you can blush..  Your book is awesome

I'll join the chorus of praise for Deecy's Practical Poser. Well written, specific, comprehensive. I just made the leap from P4 to P7 and have found this book to be indispensible. Should be the manual included with the software. Great job, D. Your mom would be proud.

When it comes to buying books for the 3d art packages I use there's a very short list,

1. Denise Tyler (Deecey) (Poser6)
2. Richard Schrand (Vue & PPP)
3. Susan Kitchens (Bryce)

All 3 authors are required reading for anyone how's serious about 3d art.

I must add that I haven't read Poser 7 Revealed so please don't look on this as me suggesting it isn't a good buy because I just don't know.

Quote - When it comes to buying books for the 3d art packages I use there's a very short list,

1. Denise Tyler (Deecey) (Poser6)
2. Richard Schrand (Vue & PPP)
3. Susan Kitchens (Bryce)

All 3 authors are required reading for anyone how's serious about 3d art.

I must add that I haven't read Poser 7 Revealed so please don't look on this as me suggesting it isn't a good buy because I just don't know.

A second to all three votes, though I quit buying/using Bryce a long time ago.

As for the "function" of a manual. Courtesy of MS' polite "your on your own, sucker" [sic] documentation model, manuals have become the territory of ObviousMan. A page on how to click "Ok" and when not to, a page on what "Save File" does, etc. And not a word about the visual implications of increasing/decreasing the "Bounce" feature in the Hair Room. And the Third Party books we used to rely on to give us what O'Reilly so aptly calls "The Missing Manual" oftentimes are replicas of the worthless pile of paper you might, if the vendor is willing to manage that cost of goods, provide: In other words, their primary function is to provide a "manual" to the folks to stole the software.

Real manuals, especially Third Party ones, are rare. That said, PP6 was a "real manual," and a few minutes with P6R at Barnes & Noble established that it wasn't. I ordered PP7 the moment I found out about it, and I'm looking forward to reading the manual eF should have provided.

M
PS: Daryl Wise's Poser book looks like a useful and interesting anthology. The name escapes me. It includes essays by the likes of PhilC. Worth a B&N visit.

Now there's an idea, persuade E-F or whoever owns Poser for the next version to employ Deecey to write the manual properly.

I am sorry to hear of your mom's passing.

I just ordered your book from Amazon. I can't wait to read it.

Having read Deecey's Poser 6 manual, I don't hesitate to recommend her books and will be buying the Poser 7 one.

Amazon UK don't stock it so ordered from USA today!

My condolences on the passing of your mother as well Denise. My PP7 just arrived last night and after a quick thumb-through it looks as though there is tons of great information in there. Thanks for writing it!

Quote - Amazon UK don't stock it so ordered from USA today!

yes they do they have it listed as Practical Poser X, but it's there :D

I am feeling all warm and fuzzy inside! Thanks everyone! Hope you enjoy the book!

As far as manuals ... my first love is making content and I'm focusing on that at the moment. We'll see how things go for Poser 8, whenever that may come. 8-)  Been toying with the idea of multimedia/video type training rather than a book, but not sure how that will be received.

So, I'll ask the #1 grocery store question ... paper (book) or plastic (CD or DVD)?

Paper for me, I can sit in bed reading that way :D

I don't get it. Practically every time someone has ANYTHING to say computer wise someone has to make a remark about MS.
Courtesy of MS' polite "your on your own, sucker"
micmca do you use microsoft products? If you do and you dislike them so much why use them? And if you don't why keep ragging on them. Sorry,  just sick of hearing it when it wasn't even a part of the thread. Just someone's mindless chance to slam MS. Give it a rest.
Marque

I prefer books to turtorial cds.  I plan on picking up Deecey's book as soon as I save up the money.

Actually, to an extent I agree with some of the things that Mickma and others have said in this thread.

I used to work for a software company (Sonic Foundry, now Sony Media Software). In the training department.

Training documentation and software documentation were indeed two separate departments. The reference manual went into "push this button to do this" and they kept it short and sweet. The training material went into specific examples as the user would actually apply them.

Both approaches have their place ... but unfortunately specific tutorials can get very wordy. To do something extremely detailed and thorough for all of the features in something like Poser would take many many pages. I bet at least 1000 or more. And something of that size is costly to print, so it's left to PDF or third party.

As a complete beginner myself, I have been totally lost in Poser till Lynda.com introduced the
new Poser7 tutorials. I have made light years of progress in just 1 week.

I finally GET IT. Working in Poser is a state of mind, and Lynda.com , although it  is not as in depth as PP7, provides a solid foundation to build on.
I strongly recommend it to all beginners.
Yes it costs money to subcribe, but the first sections of every tutorial are free, so you can try before you buy

And if you subscribe (I've been a member for two years) you have access to the entire Library-

Photoshop, Flash, Illus, Dreanweaver, even itunes and much more.

I grew Hair yesterday! It turned out to be so easy I may custom make hair on all my projects.

PS. now that I have a clue, I will be getting Practical Poser7 soon. I had 6, but found it difficult because it made references to the EF Ref manual that were not even remotely related to the subject at hand. I suspect it was the ref manual that was at fault, because other tuts I tried had similar conflicts with the manual (poser6). Someone suggested that EF sent me the wrong manual, since they experienced no such conflicts.
PP6 seemed well written and I am confident I will not experience the same difficulties with PP7.
If I do, you hear from me.

How much of a difference is there from practical poser 6 to practical poser 7?
Thanks,
Marque

Thanks Lucifer_the_Dark, I only searched under iPP7! Dunno why they list it as PPX.

Weirdly, perhaps becasue of the strong £, it's cheaper to buy it from the USA - $35 including p&p!

DD

Well, my copy of Practical Poser 7 has arrived and it is quite a tome... lots in here to get my teeth into.

I haven't found much on Ambient Occlusion yet, though I'm sure it's covered.

BTW Deecey... did you notice my other post about the annoying while line where a dark shadow should be? Any ideas?

In answer to your question... both hard copy and electronic version are nice, they compliment each other.
You can take the book to a comfy chair for a read while having a coffee, but the electronic version is great fro searching for specific words/phrases.

Cheers,

Isaac.

Ok, in practical poser 6 I can't find anything on the setup room other than how to set up a piece of clothing you have made. Please correct me with a page number if I am wrong. In practical poser 7 do you take a character into the setup room and show how to apply the bones and finish it out? I figure I will ask while the author is answering questions. If there is not more info on the setup room probably won't be getting the new version.
Marque

Quote - So, I'll ask the #1 grocery store question ... paper (book) or plastic (CD or DVD)?

Oh I feel faint!! :tt1:  If you put out DVD training videos...I would buy everyone you release!  So, get at it girl!!  Start the assembly line!!

Marque, to address your question, yes there is more information on the setup room and creating joint parameters. I show how to build a skeleton for a human figure, and then give basics in how to tweak the joints. I didn't cover eyes, but gave reference to some online tutorials for those.

The Materials chapter and the Texturing chapter have a lot more detail. I also added examples of the Morph Tool and there is a brief basic chapter on animation.

Hope that helps!

Thank you will probably be picking it up today then. Still have some birthday money left.  8^)

Well Happy Birthday (belated!!!) 8-D 

Thank you.

I ordered the Practical Poser 7 book yesterday.  Hopefully it will be here within the next two weeks.  I can't wait to get it.

I have PP6 and was toying around with purchasing PP7 but was wondering if they are really different or basically the same with a few new chapters on the new features?  Thanks...

i have pratical poser 6.
it was a great book with all sorts of information. very well written and extremely informative.
great job deecey!

now how about a book with all of the trade secrets that i so desperately crave for now? 
(hybrid clothing, rigging, joints, inner/outer spheres)