Alternate message header: Bryce Challenges - A thing of the past

Any other alt message headers you guys can think of?

The Oct/Nov Bryce Challenge has all but been ignored. Only a handful have voiced their concerns and been ignored. I really miss the good ole days when you could change the header and get someone's attention when posting in a thread. But instead I have to start a new thread because no one is listening in the sticky posted thread. Sigh

Can we get some closure? 

Thanks. Sorry if I seem disgruntled, but I am.

You should be.

There has certainly been a serious lack of follow through on allot of forums here lately. Regardless of the validity of their excuses, it's a simple matter. They volunteer. They don't get paid, but, there was a modicum of expectation when they signed up. If they can no longer follow through... Other's should.

Nobody take this personally. My point is strictly regarding the principles of 'moderating' a forum, and the responsibility of doing just that. This says allot about the direction of things to come unless it's addressed.  

Ok, so maybe 'real life' got in the way, but my son runs a forum (See Vertalech) and it's moderated 24/7. He and his wife bust their guts making sure things run smoothly and that's on top of running chat-nights and on-line parties.

The sensible thing to do would be to have more moderators.

I think a lot fo the most active challenge participants have moved on to other programs or other things. These were the presonalities that drove the challenges.  We need soem new people who are into the challenges.

The problem is Dann-O, that not every challenge appeals to very artist.

I agree but I have not been so active either so I am guilty . Also I have my own "other" app. Allthough it is not Carrera.

Yep I'm working much more in blender now then anything else, can't remember last time I opened bryce....

It's the clutteredness of the interface i guess... I dont understand why nobody's doing anything about it over at 'rosity... I mean sure, there's those doing this for free as Zhann stated in another post. But I sure doubt theres no financial system behind running this site. Surely no programmer would be programming a site like this for free, neither would someone host a site like this for free haha. So... why's nobody telling the webdevelopers of the page to just have a looksie at the workflow of the interface, work out some improvements, and have the programmer(s) fix it?

Now lets consider that the php switch seems to have been an in-house project. This would means there's a new crew of people on a project unlike what 'rosity's normally used to. This naturally also means you cant expect the same quality you might expect from for instance a studio specialized in building complex large websites undertaking this kind of projects on a routined basis.
This fact became clear at the relase because there were quite a few bugs and glitches. However, for a project this size, and a crew not routined at it, it was quite a decent effort!
Unlike some sites i've seen the 1st release of the php platform wasn't total bugware.

However.. having said this, a webdevelopment project of this kind of size just can not go without an iterative process of refinement. Surely some bugs have been fixed over time and requested functionalities have been added, but interface and navigation design needs to be integrated in this process as well! You cannot just keep adding features without re-thinking your navigation architecture at least once.
One just cannot think of everything with a site this size, you can just not guess all the right associations, word choises, expectations an habits of your users. You just cannot predict exactly where people will look for features and which things on the interface will grab their primary attention. If you could, you'd be a genius and you'd be terribly misplaced not working at some place developing revolutionary interactive techologies.

I think that if the site is made easier to use, people will become less frustrated and eventually less people will leave

less people leaving means more populated and active forums, means new life for things such as challenges.

The antiquated look of this site, certainly has a hand in the experience of browsing this place. 

No argument there, that's for sure. 

A re-launch with a whole new look and feel could drive up the numbers a bit, and from that, maybe more people who want to be mods. Judging from the history of Renderosity, imo, it holds it's own weight.  It's had it's niche. However, the last few years have proved a trial with so many sites, of this type, starting up. Although the user-base grows everyday, there is a finite amount of people that surf and have tendencies that keep them posting and wanting to help others. Many of those important 'tendencies' are no longer being addressed here, so people have left.

I've been here since 2002. This is my second account that's why it shows 2003. I learned allot just from browsing the forums, which were chalk-full of new questions and new content/tips/tricks every day, everywhere...  

But if nobody is here to do that...

I think that with the clamp down on nudity in Renderosity's pursuit of a "professional image" (whatever that is) has driven the fustration level of many users through the roof. And since its 'their' site and 'their' rules, many have left. Witness the explosion of new personal 3D web sites. I don't think they'll be back, nor do I blame them. shrug Challenges; what's the point now that many of the most talented, experienced, and knowledgeable people have left? Personally, after having deleted my entire gallery last night, I'm struggling for a reason to keep comming back. : (

when ur content consists of hundreds of thousands of works made my amature artists... u cant turn ur image into 'professionals'.... its simply impossible!
Also it's not as much the graphical appearence in terms of eye-candy. It's mainly the layout, the way you 'get to options', the way functionalities are placed on the screen etc.

For instance, I'll run through the page as u can see it now in this forum thread:

1st we've got a set of links at the top going:
[forums] [start thread] [mark all forums read] [make all visible] [search] [my forum options] [my forum stats]

Everyone totally looks over it, most of the functions are never used, yet they're somehow permanently there... its a waste of screen space.

Then underneith that comes the header.... which is exactly something that belongs at the top that's what it's a header for....

Then theres a list with stuff like:
[top of forum] [mark all read] [mark all before 7:33pm read] [new thread] [archive] [unsubscribe]

Now these are important functions mostly. These could be placed inside a bar of different color then the main background, pulling the users attention to them, so that we may actually notice and use them. Also I'd reconsider the name "top of forum" because you dont know what it means untill u clicked on it to see what it does. just call it "back to index" or "Bryce forum index" or maybe even just plain and simply "index".

Next follows the subject of the thread, put outside the "thread container" making it feel detached from the thread. which is probably the worst thing you can do to a thread title....

Then under the title is a list going:
[reply] [unsubscribe] [print] [save]

This list should be put at the top right above the thread. Not at the left! the left side is cluttered enough as it is!

Further down things make sense again mostly (Though the profile page is absolutely totally useless! just change the damn profile link to a link to the users 'rosity homepage. After all that's what u'd expect to find there.)

Oh and theres also some visual details, like the content area, (the part where the main content goes) its got the same color as the fill spaces at the left and the right of the site! Divided only by a 1px black line... This is not good, it makes it look like the content is floating in a void. It'd be a tremendous visual improvement if it would clearly visually 'detach' itself from the fill spaces...

ok now that i've given the example... i hope 'rosity peeps will read it and think about analizing everything on the site this way.

Rayraz you bring up some valid points, all of which would be addressed at a design meeting with the Rendo folks. You should put a proposal together for them if you that inclined. I doubt highly they are perusing the forums for website design/layout tips ;)

Hmm... Well i defenitely dont have the time to run over the entire community reviewing the interface design/layout haha. But if anyone knows who i should give this information to that i wrote in here, sure, just pass on the username and i'll send them a copy

Unfortunately, the programmers at least don't seem to be interested--they've heard very similar comments from me when they were still testing, but no one wanted to hear it.  As someone who does usability stuff all the time, attitudes like that make me want to bash my head against the wall--or someone's head anyway....  I doubt there was a dedicated designer, the whole site feels to me like it was hacked together by programmers trying to do their best on a schedule that was too tight and now they (and their managers) have no interest in going back and changing it (it works, good enough! changing things will just introduce more bugs!)

Edit: sorry, ranting a bit, but it's a pet peeve. :glare:

oi, and this from a forum coordinator! Such behaviour from programmers is a disgrace! Isn't Renderosity in a sense a client to them?
Given the short situation sketch im getting here I believe a decent webdeveloper should have said either:
"no we can not deliver a quality product in this given time frame with this few people on this current budget."
and you let them find someone else. Or, they should've said:
"we can give it our best shot, but be aware that things will take longer (and thus might become more expensive) to really deliver a proper high quality end product."

Oh, and trying to set up a thing like this without ANYONE working as designer is just stupid...

I can imagine how they might not feel like changing things now because its probably going to mean lots of previous work has to be re-done. But that's seriously just the result of the crappy workflow things started out with.
It's seriously disappointing to hear this... Sounds like irresponsible unprofessional mistakes all over the place...

Please note that I really don't know about timeframe/lack of designer problems--that's just an interpretation!  Things have the same feel as other places I've worked where that has been the case--which has been most of the web development companies I've worked for, honestly, so even if it does work like that (which I really don't know for certain, mind you) I wouldn't lay all the blame at Renderosity's doorstep--much of the industry is exactly the same.

And I say this without the coordinator hat on, although I suppose I didn't say I wouldn't complain when I signed up, lol, but this really is personaly opinion.

Yea its a shame. Usability is almost an afterthought for most people developers these days! I dont know why people keep accepting this. It's seriously stupid when you think about it...
I mean, take MSword for example, a program we all know and have used.
Try making a new document in word. You first have to click on file, then on new, and then? you'd think you'd finally get your new document right? well ofcourse not! Try it out, you'll get a toolbar or a popup screen with a whole bunch of options one of which will finally get you your new document...
Or how about opening all the toolbars at once, check out how little screenspace you'll have left to type in once you've gotten over the shock of seeing the result, try 'n figure out how many of those options you actually use! (or which of those you wish you'd known about before trying to open all the toolbars available)

And it's like that all over the place, not just 'rosity, not just word, its everywhere! How many people know how to program their vcr without using a manual? The technology has started to become obsolete and we still dont know how to use it!

This world is in need of interaction design! hahaha

So, are you a web-designer? or a web-programmer? or a flash animator?

I've done both web design and web programming, but now I'm a grad student in Human Computer Interaction.  Still don't know flash, though I'll probably get around to learning it some time before I graduate, if only for interface mock-ups.  Lately I've gotten away from web design/programming, though (but my Online Communities class might get me back into it), I might end up getting into Ubiquitous Computing... yeah, I still don't know what to be when I grow up

wow u sound like quite the smart one :biggrin: My study is of Interactive Media. It's the best i could get here in the netherlands. I doubt it'll be anything near Human Computer Interaction though... I'm currently having more trouble with Teacher Grade-administration interaction! I'm totally stuck. I'm not allowed to graduate 'cuz i miss some grades even though i did already pass the neccesary assingments... It just takes over 4 months (and counting) to receive my grades!

I'm mainly a php/mysql programmer at this point, though i do have some experience with javascript, xml and flash actionscript. I'm also somewhat into 3d graphics, 2d graphics, 2d design, and interaction design though actually interaction design is something im highly interested in, but i always have the desire to create that which i've created in my mind. Hence the programming.. hehe

I think you'll find flash interesting from the point of interaction design, but personally i think it's a programmers nightmare. The whole 'object oriented' approach is total crap, security has become a minefield over the past versions (each new version requires you program things differently to work around security settings blocking certain functionalities), css support is close to nothing and i dont even wanna try interacting with javascript and/or AJAX. I've been to an adobe convention on things like flash, dreamweaver and contribute, but really non of my answers could be answered with "yes flash can do that" or "yea we're working on that". Everything I asked for if its in the new version or planned for future versions they told me nope, flash aint (gunna be) doin that.

btw, if you still dont know what you wanna be doing a few years from now, drop by ur cv at usendes multimedia. It's where I work right now, and where I plan to work 'till at least in 2009 and probably way beyond that

So, what's Ubiquitous Computing?

Yeah, my main interest in flash is interaction design, I don't think I'd design a website in it--flash websites annoy me, to be honest, and I really like javascript.  I didn't really get into php until last year, when I found out you can do object oriented stuff with it--I didn't realize it had that before, I swear none of the sites I've seen online talk about it!  I found out that it had objects by wandering through the computer section of a bookstore and seeing a book titled "Object Oriented PHP" (which of course had to come home with me), and now I like the language much better

The idea behind ubiquitous computing is that computers are everywhere (hence "ubiquitous" ).  It's an idea that came out of Xerox PARC in...the 80s?  Mark Weiser, I think.  It's kinda like people have their cell phones and their ipods all the time, and those are computers, but people don't think of them as computers, just as little things that do useful stuff.  The research in ubiquitous computing is how to embed computers into the environment (or have people carry with them) in a way that is useful and unintrusive.  For instance, there's the "Aware Home" project, which involves a lot of things but lately has been more fucused on the elderly, and what can be done so that they can safely continue to live in their own homes longer.  This involves things like monitoring which medicines have been taken when and motion detection tracking unusual behaviors (e.g. they came into the kitchen 3 hours ago and never left).
Edit: found a page with some of the original work on ubiquitous computing: http://www.ubiq.com/hypertext/weiser/UbiHome.html www.ubiq.com/hypertext/weiser/UbiHome.html

Quote -

The sensible thing to do would be to have more moderators.

For a martain you sure are smart...I totally agree with you and i will admit like i stated to a gallery mod, why only have people that are in one timezone, maybe 2 doing the job of mod when you have members from every timezone on this site.

Ok not all the mods can be on 24/7 but i'm sure with more mods and yes i know they are given set times/days to be on then Renderosity could cover the 24/7...

god how many here don't work, have a few hours a day/week spare they could use on here if they were to be made mods..i sure have more time on my hands than most i know..

Quote - Yeah, my main interest in flash is interaction design, I don't think I'd design a website in it--flash websites annoy me, to be honest, and I really like javascript.  I didn't really get into php until last year, when I found out you can do object oriented stuff with it--I didn't realize it had that before, I swear none of the sites I've seen online talk about it!  I found out that it had objects by wandering through the computer section of a bookstore and seeing a book titled "Object Oriented PHP" (which of course had to come home with me), and now I like the language much better

oh defenitely, javascript RULES in comparison to flash. Though im sure many actionscript fans will want to ritually burn me for saying so.
yea I ran into that too! I was just readin around on php.net when i found out all kindsa cool stuff! If only I had known before that you can throw and catch in php!
My OOP-roots lay in Flash Actionscript though.... :-/ so u might understand how little quality my background education of OOP is haha. I mostly just learn through trial and error. I'm a big fan of using templates, modules, classes, and custom-made engines for stuff like easy form making, easy pdf conversion, etc. etc. Whatever i can build to speed up the repetitive programming processes in a way that's both flexible and fast to use during programming.
I guess php must be quite weird if you're comming from more of a C-background or something like that. However i love how its great for quickly making nice little scripts.
Next thing for me to get my head around: Variable variables... (ran across them in someone else's code, im clueless how they work!)

That ubiquitous computing stuff sounds interesting! I wonder where the good old pc and other products based on computer technology will merge... PC turns Mediacentre, PSP Gaming console turns mp3/movie player, phone turns pda, pda turns navigation unit, Wii turns internet browser (well... to some degree anyways, i wouldnt write long forum posts with it haha), xbox turns almost into a full-blown pc. Somewhere along the line we're going to only recognize things as a computer if they're labeled 'pc' by the store they're sold in...