Hey all, I'm a long time Windows based PC user and I'm thinking about moving to a Mac for various reasons.  However, being able to use Poser and all the content I currently have will be a big factor in that.  I noticed that Daz3D has PC and Mac files to download for most of thier content, but I have no idea what the difference is.

So I guess what I'd like to know is does Poser 7 run well on a Mac?  Will I run into problems attempting to use my current content / runtimes?  What's the good, the bad, and the ugly?

Thanks in advance!

As far as I know, Poser 7 runs just about as well on a Mac as on a PC.

There's two drawbacks to switching to Mac, one major, and one minor.

The minor drawback is that patches are usually released earlier for PC than for Mac, due to the larger user base. I seem to remember that Poser 7 was built as a universal binary, however, which would mean that the same patches would apply to both PC and Mac. So maybe this is not an issue at all.

The major drawback is the lack of Tkinter support on Mac OSX. Which means that many, many useful Python scripts, both commercial and free, will not work. 
This is not e-frontiers fault or responsibility. Tkinter is part of the Python libraries, and the Python community simply hasn't ported Tkinter to the newest version of Mac OSX.

Poser 7 also has limited support for wxPython, an alternative to Tkinter for building user interfaces. wxPython runs fine on both PC and Mac. 
wxPython support appeared only with Poser 6, so older scripts will definitely not use it.

one advantage to using a new intel mac with leopard (next month) is that it will run both leopard (OS 10.5.x) and vista concurrently.

Frankly, I have a Mac running OSX and the only thing I can do better on it than I can on my PC is vector graphics, which is, IMHO, what Macs are best at.  

So, my only question about your consideration of switching to a Mac would be "Why?"

Quote - The major drawback is the lack of Tkinter support on Mac OSX. Which means that many, many useful Python scripts, both commercial and free, will not work. 

As of Poser 7 and Mac OS X 10.4, Tkinter is available.

So, my only question about your consideration of switching to a Mac would be "Why?"

Well I used to be big on PC gaming and I've noticed I don't do much of that any more.  I do far more 3D graphics, video, audio, and that type of creation / editing, which is where Macs shine.

The Mac Poser SR's have been released at the same time as the PC SR. (or within a few days). Strangely Daz is still using .sit files which are no longer used on the Mac, without 3rd party software. They should be zipped just like the PC. The main problem with moving to the Mac, is that a lot of people don't understand there is NO difference between the PC files and Mac files for content. Many venders still include strange and archaic instructions that you just have to learn to ignore. When in doubt follow the PC instructions. I have noticed that PC users have become very defensive of late and I have no wish to start a flame war, but to answer the why question I will use a simple Boolean test. A new Mac can run all the current Mac software AND Windows and all the Windows software. So buying a Mac you lose nothing and gain the best of both worlds. There are many many other reasons people would buy a Mac, check out apple.com for more... Also note that while the press and computer industry would like to use small % increases for Mac growth, these increases amount to millions of real life people that are now choosing a Mac for their next computer. This trail is well traveled and you will find lots of help along the way. PS Rendo has a Mac forum.

one other difference is the way files are installed into runtime DAZ stuff is cool cause of the installer they use (may be why still using .sit files?) but stuff from the MP and freebies have to be manually loaded (a bit of a pain) see the Mac Forum faq for more details on this and there a very, very few who use exe installers only and those will not run at all ; , ; but ive been using P7 since the release with very few problems so far ^ ^

Attached Link: dittoGUI

Quote - Frankly, I have a Mac running OSX and the only thing I can do better on it than I can on my PC is vector graphics, which is, IMHO, what Macs are best at.  

So, my only question about your consideration of switching to a Mac would be "Why?"

I can think of a couple reasons why my next computer will be a Mac. I'm tired of supporting a horrible company like Microsoft with their business tactics, I'd much rather support a company like Apple. Vista will never ever be installed on my machine even if I can't afford a Mac for a couple more years. And Macs are just fun and the OS is pretty to look at.

Attached Link: Parallels and Vista Blog

Macs rule. ^^ bB

I will never buy a mac PC's rule.

Marque: the question wasn't "will Marque every buy a Mac" take your trolling elsewhere please.

I have a feeling that the vista rule may change. these things are always open to negotiation.

Been a Mac user going back to a Apple II EI think was the model. In the 3d world, poser, and other apps. I run P6, P7, Shade, Cimema104d of course the office apps and the CS2 family among a whole bunch of other stuff. I have not upgraded to an intel chipped Mac yet

To be honest:
I have a windoze laptop to run a single app used for scoring go-kart races. However I do admin about 30 desktops at work and we are about 60-40, Win to Mac. There are certain main stream apps like Pro-engineering-Auto-Cad and a zillion tools and plugins designed for Poser and other 3d apps that are not available for a Mac if you are on a PPC chipped machine like me. But with the new Mac OS that is coming out in the next 60 days that changes even further as stated above in intel based Macs. Currently you can use an app called parallel to run both windoze apps and Mac apps at the same time. The current version of Boot camp by Apple you have to boot into either windoze or Mac, not run both concurrently. The one thing about running concurrently that I would verify is that you can use shared content. IE if you are running a windoze app can you get to your poser runtimes on the mac side that you might have inside the Mac applications folder, vs a document shared folder. Something like the old Virtual PC software that mac users have struggled with for years and could never do.

One thing you will notice that for whatever reason Apple keeps people like ATI, Nivada out of the market of selling aftermarket graphic cards. So if you buy via the apple online store in build to order, make sure you get the card you want up front as the upgrade paths can be done via a bunch of 3rd part hacks, not vendor supported methods. Not exactly the path I would go down if the OS changed and you needed a different driver. Other quirks are you you can't just pull a jump drive out of a USB slot, without it complaining. But you just dismiss the dialog and forget it. Same with ejecting CD's and DVD's. There is no button to push on the front of the case like on a PC. You do it from the keyboard or by dragging the Icon to the trash. Try telling a new Mac user to drag stuff to the trash to eject it and they look at you like you are nuts, thinking they will erase something. Unlike older Mac's pre OSX, you can't just move things around and place apps anywhere you like. They need to stay put where they are installed and don't rename their folders or file names or all heck breaks out when you up grade something. Just like leaving a poser item in the correct folder inside the runtime. Docs, you are free to move anywhere.

Granted a very biased user, but you get protected memory which means any app can collapse and you just relaunch and keep going. The only reason I reboot my Mac at work or at home is because of an OS upgrade. They both have been on constantly for over a year with no issues. Granted there are windoze users that will claim the same thing I am sure. The directory structure, moving between external drives etc, to me has always been quicker and easier on Mac's. I think that is because that has been my only personal OS since the 1980's. Granted I love real estate, so I have 2 23 inch flat panels displays side by side and they act was one desk top, so I just slide things out of the way to the monitor on the left. The folders when opened don't hog the full screen by default. They remember the location and the size they were the last time you opened them and where they were, even in my double panel layout.

On a Mac stay away from Nortons anything Virus or otherwise. One you don't need it. And their disk utilities cause more problems then they solve.

Just like you are going to hear people say they would never use a Mac, I am the reverse and would never run Windoze unless I absolutely had no choice. And to get my one major kick in the shins (it's a joke OK) to windoze users and based on the recent cropping of thumbnails in the store, etc here and the nudity issue....Why anyone would buy software from a company that was named after the founders personal short comings below the belt is beyond me!! (rimshot)

Macs are twice as expensive and there is hardly anything free for them. I worked on Macs and PC, and I would never buy a Mac. IMHO.

I have used them all - MSDOS, Unix (Redhat and others), Amiga (1.0-3.5), BeOS, Windows (3.0-XPPro 64-bit), MacOS, MacOSX, LegOS ;).

I have to agree in many parts with grichter.  Some things are just not available on Macs - not worth the developers' efforts to port to such a small user-base.  That's not an exemplary reason, but that's their bottom-line (how much is the effort and pain worth the support).

Personally, I find Windows PCs faster, but MacOS more reliable and less 'techie' (one reason why I moved away from Unix systems).  Both systems have their pros and cons.  With Apple's move to Intel, there is definitely a narrowing gap in performance and cost.  Macs are still more expensive, but at least you get a whole package - that works!

OT: that new Apple PC-Mac commercial is hilarious.  They are really stomping on Vista of late.  'Mac has issued a salutation. Cancel or Allow?"  Precious! ;D

I'm contemplating switching to Linux if E-F & Daz ever get their act together & release Linux versions of their software.

Mac's are not twice as expensive as PC's. Mac are the same price or cheaper than PC's IF you match them feature for feature. Do a quick check on the web there's lots of Mac - PC price comparisons out there. Mac's even with the same chips are often faster than PC's, thanks to Apples great work on Panther. Poser is one example where on the Mac Pro it now renders faster on a Mac, (would someone like to prove me wrong:-) The Mac is currently experiencing a software renaissance and as the growth in users gathers greater traction we will see this grow. I think with Vista and Leopard moving further apart in the core services we will also see more and more great software that is Mac only. But as has been pointed out if you do need all those PC only tools, there are 2 options Bootcamp with runs Windows natively, so it just thinks it's running on any other Intel computer or Parallels which uses the chip level virtualisation to allow Windows and OS X to run at the same time, this has a small performance hit. The Mac has a growing and active Shareware and Freeware community, there are lots of free or low priced software for the Mac, check version tracker for more details. I work on Mac and PC's and with the Intel Macs I will never need to buy a PC again.

When you're not living in the US, Macs ARE about twice as expensive as comparable PCs. Because of the US export fees, plus the despicable tendency of many US companies to charge non-US customers more for the same product.

Example from two years ago, when I was considtering buying a Mac G5 for its 8 GB memory support. US price: $1899.- Dutch price: € 2500,-. 
At the time, one € equaled $1.30. So a Dutch customer would have to pay over $3000 for exactly the same machine that would cost a US citizen $1900.

This kind of crap does NOT happen with PCs. I always build my own from good quality components manufactured in the Far East. A Taiwanese mainboard manufacturer doesn't care who buys his merchandise, as long as he gets his money.
For € 2000 I could buld a VERY fast PC that ran circles around the fastest Mac of those days (and in the Netherlands a Mac with more or less comparable hardware would cost over € 7000)

Mac vs PC: they're just operating systems. I use both, and I'm tending to go more and more towards the PC. When my last G4 Mac dies, it won't be replaced.

Poser content runs equally well on both, but consider the cost having to purchase Mac versions of everything you use.

Also, I can fix my PCs when they go wrong, whatever the problem. I'm pretty sure that's not always an option with Macs, and getting them serviced is expensive!

Just want to thank everyone for the input.  Good to hear both sides of things.  I've used Macs in the past so throwing things in the trash to eject them isn't that scary for me.  ;)  Just a bit odd.

As for price I'm Canadian and one of the first things I did was check the price.  Going Mac or custom build PC is going to cost me about the same price.

So it looks like going Mac might be the way to go for me.  There is also a number of programs that are only on Mac that I'd like to use as I've heard really good things about them.  And worst case for still needing to run Windows only programs I can use Bootcamp or simply keeping using my Alienware laptop.

Poser content runs equally well on both, but consider the cost having to purchase Mac versions of everything you use.

Others seemed to imply that there is no difference between the PC and Mac versions of poser content aside from a few outdated files that aren't even needed in OSX and Poser 7.  Did I misunderstand that?

I have a Mac & a PC.  

I prefer the PC much more, than I do the Mac.  The PC seems to have more competitors creating software & hardware.  This makes for better prices, selection, and options for the user.  Mac users tend to be more like a cult not realizing the power of today's PC.

Obviously, some Windows users get what they deserve :evil grin:

Once I found out about the MS DRM in Vista it killed any further interest of mine in using future PC hardware except maybe for Linux. Reactivation already is a stinker in XP. Why even go through it anymore. If M$ wants that much control over my computer then they better pay for the thing.

The more I look the more I find all the software I want for Mac. My next upgrade is into a Mac.

Some sweet Mac apps I've gotten in the last year are iPhoto, iMovie, and GarageBand. GarageBand and iPhoto are very sweet, and easy to use. Love it. I got them all free when I bought my Mac Mini. So when you get your Mac, wheel-n-deal with the sales rep and get these these little gems. I got other freebies too. Sweetness. ^^ bB

Erm, don't iPhoto, iMovie, and GarageBand come as part of MacOSX?  (Considering that my mac is about two feet to my right - I can check snap that fast!)...

Go for it jadewolfcd !! Get a kick-@ss Mac! Woo hoo !! ...and welcome to the Cult ; )

re-activation/authentication worries are a thing of the past with OS X. the software that comes free with OS X varies, depending on machine and whether one buys the OS X in a box for approx $129 U.S., hence it's somewhat less expensive for the full version than is vista, which is allegedly a copy of OS 10.2 and 10.3, and imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. can hundreds of M$ software engineers be wrong in their choice of a model? there are, however, nearly a dozen exploits of OS X, including approx. 4 "concept" exploits (e.g. the latest bluetooth thing), vs. ..... hmmmmm... I dunno .... sumpim like 650,000 against windows. I must say that I shudder at the thought of havinta worry about viruses/worms/trojans/rootkits/ spyware 24/7.

I got iLife for free with me MacMini. I've already made my first song in GarageBand! I'm tempted to buy expansion packs, if they were $20 each, I would have scooped them up already. It's a sweet little app. ^^ IPhoto is like iTunes, only it's for photos and you can make videos with it. I haven't gotten into iMovie yet. bB

Attached Link: Full Article Here

"Macs are glorified Fisher-Price activity centres for adults"

You barely see Mac people bashing on PCs - its always the other way round - some type of inferiority complex ? The reasons not to buy a mac: Only one mouse button - not true Macs are more expensive than PCs - not true Macs dont have enough free software - not true (its true if you get your free software from p2p) and so on........an endless story - hasta la vista

Attached Link: Steve Jobs about microsoft in 1996...

Quote - You barely see Mac people bashing on PCs

My personal experience is quite different. Most PC users I know (which means most of my colleagues and students) have a practical viewpoint: they use a PC for the software that they can acquire for PC, and wouldn't mind using a Mac for something that Mac shines at.

For example, we use 3D Studio Max at school for modeling. PC version.Because that's the most used 3D app in the game development world.  But we also use Final Cut Pro (Mac only) for video editing. Because that's the program that's used most in the professional film industry.

Bashing is ONLY done by a few Mac users - or should I say Mac lovers? Out of the 15 or so Mac users in my work environment, 5 have the same viewpoint as the PC users - they use what suits their work best. The others are "cultists"

Personally, I prefer PCs. Because I can build them to my own specs, I can fix them myself when something goes wrong, and because the OS suits my taste better. (On a side note, this is one of the main reasons I don't like Vista. Too much like Mac OS).

You guys are paying way too much attention to that whole "my computer is better than yours" game. It's not like you're facing an irreversible decision or something (like whether or not to get your dog neutered) - it's just a matter of taste and convenience, like "salad or soup" or "boxers or briefs". Some like one, some like the other, and that's about it. Heck, some of us (like me) don't care either way and use both equally. Since we're running mostly the same software on both anyway (Poser, Photoshop, web browser), the difference is mostly details anyway. Just because I happen to own an Apple notebook doesn't mean that I don't like Windows. I don't like it when people see my MacBook Pro, walk up to me and try to start a conversation about how bad Windows is. That's just silly. You don't need to ridicule the other platform just to feel more comfortable with your choice. (I have Windows XP installed on that notebook, and I'd install Linux and BeOS too if the hard drive wasn't overfilled already).

You get that too, huh?

People are startled that I use Windows and MacOS - how shameful?

I use both for plugin dev - which is why it's more expensive for me as I need two copies of everything - Poser 4-7, C4D 8-10, etc..  That part sucks, but it is expected.

Windows people ask how I cope with MacOS and MacOS people wonder why I still use Windows. ;)  Well, I need both for my work.  I don't particularly like MacOS Finder, but then Windows Explorer ain't so great either.  I use DirectoryOpus on Windows and it would change my life if GP Software would port it to MacOS (Crikey!  The software started on the Amiga - PPC - hint, hint).

Oh, Directory Opus :) Fond memories of my Amiga 4000 are arising (I had a 2000 before, but didn't get DirOpus until I had that 4000). My personal choice of file management tool would still be BeOS' OpenTracker, for its simplicity, speed and a wonderful plugin called "TrackerGrep".

I am one of those people that will never buy a PC and hates to use one whenever I have to but there are times that I have to. I also don't begrudge people using their PC. I just don't want to be forced to use them. At one point print layout was tremendously slanted toward Mac. Now it is much more level but you still find places that cost more to print PC stuff than Mac because they don't work. I just use what I want and don't understand the animosity. I mean I hate PCs but I don't need to bash them every time someone mentions wanting a PC or finding out what PC would be best for this or that, etc. I just use my Macs and secretly go balder and cuss a lot more every time I have to use my finacee's PC.

I have used many different types of computers/OSs over the years: 

Mac 1989-2007, Windows (DOS) 1988-2007, Quantel 1990-1999, SGI (Softwindows and UNIX) 1993-1998, Abacus 1997-1999, Chyron 1993-1997, Pinnacle 1997-1999, Infiniti  1998-1999, etc.

... but Mac is "home." It's what I prefer because it is a superior product. I have 5 Macs in my home, and my first Mac, from 1993, still runs too.  I have never needed to take a Mac in for service. I can pop in new memory cards, processors, and power supplies for myself. I've never had a virus, and I can run Disk Warrior on external drives to fix them for myself too.

I am very happy with what Apple has done in the last few years, -- iPods, iTunes, affordable MacMini, AppleTV, iPhone, switching to intel chips, BootCamp...  imho, Steve Jobs is a brillant visionary. Coolest CEO ever, imho. ^^

bB

Nothing special whatsoever about iPhone - as any Japanese person would tell you... ;)   MacMini is nothing new either.  There have been micro PCs around for ages.  The design, cost, and marketing weren't there - but that's another story.

Reminds me of an old newspaper cartoon.  When they allegedly 'discovered' cold fusion, the cartoon showed all of the other countries discovering it while Japan was coming out with the 'cold fusion car' already.

Well, okay.  MacOS, MacOSX, MSDOS, Windows, Linux, SGI, PalmOS, WindowsCE, LegOS, AmigaOS, BeOS, OS/2, C64 OS, GEOS, a couple proprietary OSs besides, even one that you could get from a book about writing your own OS (I've only gone as far as writing my own Windowed GUI for MSDOS) -  I've been around the corner more times than you think. :D

Nothing special about what MS comes out with either - they just copy and crush - XBox for instance, J++, and so on.

Jobs is a visionary salesperson - and he knows how to run his business to keep it fertile.  Yes, I like his style - actually reminds me of Commodore when the Amiga was big (for like a couple years).

I just got a new Mac. You won't regret the purchase. I like to build my own pc's too, but I've always liked the Mac. It's what I used at home and at school, so It's familiar.

I have a mac and a PC. I hardly ever use my PC, adn I've never had to reinstall all my software the way I have had to on the PC when something went wrong. Okay, I hadn't backed up. I really like comic life that comes free with the mac. I don't run any antiviral software on the mac (I know - naughty, but never been a problem) Love esther PS I use ditto for quickly installing all my poser runtimes that I buy from renderosity. It's great. Always remember that without ditto (or using terminal) a mac will not merge two folders contents, one folder will overwrite the other, so if you drop a runtime folder into your poser 7 folder it will completely replace your runtime contents. I think that would take some getting used to for a PC user.

My only beef with moving to Mac is that it was expensive, and it took a year to do it. First was re-purchaseing my Macromedia web studio, then Photoshop. Then I had to get new music programs, as Acid and FL Studio were windows only. Fortunately Carrara shipped on a hybrid disk, but poser 5 didnt. I also got stuck with P5 not working on Tiger OS, so I kept my PC box until I could upgrade to P6. (Financial situations). Now I have to deal with switching to the Intel chip, but that will be next winter. Ive been on a Mac for almost 4 years now, and I will say, I have NEVER had a system crash. (I do miss FLStudio though:) E

Have you tried GarageBand or Logic Pro or Logic Expess? I never took to FLStudio. bB