I waslooking to upgrade from Windows XP Pro to Vista - can anyone tell me which version of VistaI should be going for? I use Vue 6 & Poser 6 - soon to be P7

Thanks,

John

NON .... 
Ooops that was hard ... think about it before spending money ....
Nobody noticed that MS dont say a word about being 64 bit for the cheap versions ...
I read on many places now that the cheap versions are 32 bit ..so not speed increase there...
I got myself a MAC ... so i keep XP Pro and a MAC ..
Wait for atleast a year before getting vista .. thats MHO :}
Chris

I have to agree with Bar Code, I can't really see any compelling reason to upgrade to Vista. And knowing it hasn't been tested a lot by Vue users, I can't imagine it will fare as well as XP does with Vue. I'd at least wait until a SP1 is released, unless you really like being on the Bleeding (not Leading) edge.

yeah and im checking now at MS site  ..but i realy realy cant find anything that say's Vista home and premium are 64 BIT ...and thats what it was all about was it not...
The rest of vista is a bad copy of MAC os ...

Well, for graphics I wouldn't upgrade yet. Graphic card drivers haven't been fully optimised under Vista for OpenGL as of yet. I certainly see no reason to upgrade yet....and as BAR-CODE has already mentioned, I also won't be upgrading for a year.

Now, a lot has been made about Microsofts OpenGL implimentation for Vista...most of which is total rot! Microsoft have never fully implimented OpenGL within the system and Windows has always (for the sake of argument) relied on the OpenGL from the graphic card manufacturers.

In bench marks, OpenGL within Vista has been only slightly slower than XP...but as I say, card drivers haven't been fully optimised.

Wait a year...there is no rush or benefit to upgrade yet.

Cheers 

From what I've been reading there's also a distinct possibility that Vue, Poser etc. won't even run properly on Vista due to some of the security "refinements" in it!
Don't know much about it but what I've read so far has put me right off getting it for now!
I'll prolly wait until I get a new PC which is still a good 18 months away!!

Quote - I'll prolly wait until I get a new PC which is still a good 18 months away!!

Interestingly enough, I just purchased a new rendering PC for the exact same reason...last chance to buy with XP still installed.

FYI
Vista home basic and Vista home premium are delivered only in a 32 bit version but a 64 bit version is available at minimum charge after you have bought the 32 bit version. Vista ultimate comes with both 32 and 64 versions on separate DVD's in the box.
As yet some divers are not yet available (graphic drivers are suspect). Most support software (including most anti virus programs) is in test and not yet fully released.
My advise would be to wait a few months before getting it and if you can afford it buy the ultimate version (for all the extras).

I have a duel core system waiting for a 64 bit operation system.  Right now it has XP Home.  If I buy a full version (not upgrade) of Vista Ultimate, can I donate my old copy of XP home to my daughter's school?  Not sure if once it has been activated if it can be used on another system.

What about upgrading to windows xp 64bit - and can you still get it?

What about upgrading to windows xp 64bit - and can you still get it?

Dont you think you better ask your local Computer shop ?
....

Attached Link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16832116179

Beat me to it, Deb! I just sprang for the the OEM 3 Pack of XP-64 myself; already have one liscence, so that when I rebuild my system later this year, I can do a dual boot with Xp/XP-64 (or for that matter, I might make it a triple boot with Win2k). I can't really afford to get all the liscences I need to make a 64 bit rendergarden, but I can at least get half of it! Needless to say, I have no plans to Vista-ize anything at the moment (well, maybe one of the renderboxes, so long as it doesn't invalidate the XP liscene on that box). I am not about to donate 20% of my CPU's capability to some crappy DRM scheme; I have better uses for those resources....

I'm considering dual boot myself - I do mean considering.  I'm gonna go ahead get the XP64x at EOM just to have, as I won't be "Vistaizing" anything either :)

Make sure to hit all the hardware sources for drivers; I daresay that one of the conditions of M$'s approval will be to at least hide any XP-64 drivers from casual sight. And nothing beats dual boot for compatibility issues; particularly since 32 bit software will be running in WOW (windows on windows: basically, an emulator....with the potential performance hit emulators always carry).

imho vista is a large DOWNGRADE from xp.

just bought a new dual core totally maxed out laptop. only comes with vista.

vue 6 infinite extreme runs just fine, as does poser, tg2,etc

however,

vista is so top heavy and dumbed down that after a week i simply cannot stand it anymore. everything takes twice as long even set to classic. simply rebooting computer causes grey hair.

i am installing xp  tomorrow.

my biggest  gripe:

no matter how you set power schemes laptop turns completely off with lid shut after 15 minutes.

i normally start my renders at bedtime. close the lid and leave laptops rendering all night long.

not possible with vista.

spent 45 minutes with MS tech support today. final verdict from MS : install XP. vista cannot be configured to keep running with lid closed beyond 15 minutes regardless of what powerscheme says.

simply amazing

otter

Yeah - Dale - need to discuss with my tech person.  I might ending up getting another machine just for that - not sure yet.  Hell, I might not do anything at all other than buy the OS let it sit here for those just in case type moments ;)

I decided to put Vista 32 bit Ultimate on my 2nd computer to test it out. I had XP Pro 32 and 64 in dual boot before. I have XP Pro 32 on my other computer. The tech at my computer store who builds all my computers and is super knowledgeable said that the 64-bit version is still too much in its infancy and really not ready for use.

Once Vista (32-bit) Ultimate is on, I plan to write about it on Rosity front page: how it works and how it works with various programs. Hopefully, I should be able to start this week. 

I am really doing this more as an experiment. Otherwise, I would not switch for a few years or until I had to switch.

Vista Is a nice thing to experiment with. but from what I have read about it, You Really dont want to use it for your main computer. I quite frankly am never upgrading. never. nope.

I have heard so much bad about it I would not expermient with it if it were free.

I looked around for drivers for my printer and scanner.  Both are not available for Vista.  Until at least the Epson 2200 printer is supported, I will hold off upgrading.  I've wanted a new scanner for a while, so that's not a biggie if it won't run under Vista -  I can use it with another computer.

Thanks Paula!  Looking forward to your report.

Quote - I had XP Pro 32 and 64 in dual boot before. I have XP Pro 32 on my other computer. The tech at my computer store who builds all my computers and is super knowledgeable said that the 64-bit version is still too much in its infancy and really not ready for use.

Then his knowledge does not extend into 64-bit operating systems. Or more probably he didn't want to deal with 'potential' problems that an XP64 installation could - hypothetically - create on his customer's machines (better safe than sorry :). Or he is not familiar at all with 3D rendering software, and thus does not see the need to address more than 2 GB per application.

The truth is, XP64 is not only perfectly fit to run 3D apps - and particularly Vue -  it is also lean and efficient. I use it since June 1985, in dual boot with XP32, and have done so on a dozen machines. The only problem I see with XP64 is the lack of drivers for old / exotic peripherals. As for the rest, most of the critics come from people who never tried it and repeat what they have read, or installed it without having the technical knowledge necessary to understand the implications (e.g people installing on a 2 GB system and complaining it is not faster, etc.).

As for Vista, apart from the dumbness of some functions and the DRM features, there is really one important thing that every Vue users should consider. The system itself eats several hundred megabytes of ram more than XP, so it's less memory for the apps you're running. And as a 32-bit operating system won't ever be able to allocate more than 2 GB per application, Vista 32-bit is even more restricted in this matter than XP 32-bit.

My recommendation would be : if you want to go Vista (unfortunately we will all have to go that route sooner or later, unless there is a Linux version of Vue one day), go for Vista 64-bit or wait. And if you are not afraid to try things for yourself, pick a XP64 package when you still can. Most people who did it for 3D do not regret it.

Ah ah good one, I meant 2005 obviously :) It feels like a long time anyway :))) In 1985 I seem to remember I was using an IBM PC AT, 6 MHz 80286 16-bit CPU, and an Atari ST with a 68000-8 MHz CPU. And one year later came the beloved Amiga... But I digress. :)

Hmmm
I've been using Vista for the past 2 weeks (got a release version via a Microsoft partner programme) and on the whole I find it better than XP. Just a few examples - Reasyboost allows you to use a flash drive (certain ones) as additional storage for the paging file giving you more memory to play with. The voice recognition built in is pretty cool. The search facility is a big improvement on what is in Xp (yes I know Mac users have had that for ages).
A lot of the problems can be solved by right clicking an application and selecting "Run as Administrator". not sure why you HAVE to do this if you are the only user of the machine but there you go!
As far as drivers are concerned - I put Vista on my 4 year old DELL laptop and Vista installed drivers automatically for all the hardware. Like all things one learns to live with (and maybe even forgive ) some of the 'features' when something is just out but I'm confident that as Microsoft release Service packs,  Vista WILL get better and people will actually love using it..
I moved my whole development environment over to Vista right in the middle of a project (maybe a foolhardy thing to do ) but at the minute there's nothing I haven't found a way round - yet (touch wood!)

I just changed to Administrator since I am the only one on the computer and got rid of the hassle. It works great that way. I am starting a series on the front page this coming week on Vista. I hope you will contribute some of your experiences since you seem to be one of the few who like it. I, also, like it so far.

I've been playing with Vue 6 I today and have found it to run smoothly. I have not done any long renderings yet, so I can't judge time.

Thanks for your positive comment. It was refreshing.

I bought a new PC for Xmas, with a free upgrade to Vista. I was gutted to discover it would be a 32bit Vista. So I just bought a copy of XP64 instead, and will use a dual boot when I get the time to set it up. I've never done that so I'm a bit anxious. How do you work with 2 OS? How about the desktop? Do you get 2? Anyway, will know pretty soon!

Hi Bruno -

Before I put Vista on my second machine, I had a dual boot of XP Pro 32 and XP Pro 64. Everything is sort of separate as if you almost had two computers other than the fact that you can see the files of the other operating system and all your other partitons and/or drives. When the machine boots up, you choose which operating system to use.

Vista 32bit was designed for products, software and hardware, released in the last two years 2005 or newer. Two problems that will vex you are the new security system, User Account Control, and non-digitally signed files and drivers. A third is another problem, the use of virtual directories. If the installing software does not put it where Microsoft says or tries to access permissions denied areas, Microsoft will kill the install. All of this info is in the EULA. There is little reason to go into detail. Even if your new product is Microsoft approved, that does not mean it will function as expected. Surprise! Surprise!

This is not software for the faint of heart. The 64 bit is for the Techies, and those who know their equipment and drivers, one bad driver and your in BSOD Heaven with a broken install.

Vista was designed for the high-end computer, 2 gigs of mem, a Duo Duel-Core CPU, and a PCIe Video Card. Anything else is a joke on the user. This baby is GIGs big and a resource hog. It can be fast, if you set it up correctly by shutting down all of the fluff. My 2.8 renders in 1/3 the time my 1.6 did. I am running Vue 5 32 bit without trouble, and will get the retail Vue 6 when released.  

Vista must be installed on an existing OS, or on a drive that has an existing OS in another partition, no XP CD install disc verification will work.  This is the biggest piece of paranoia I have ever seen!

AS others state, “stay away from the 64 for the present!”

Thanks, Paula.

FYI: About the installation of 32 bit and 64 bit drivers for Windows Vista; 

My parphrase; All drivers must be Vista compatible and digitally signed. If not, during install, Vista 32 bit will request you stop installation, and in some cases refuse to install the software or drivers all together. If you can ignore the warnings and install the software and or drivers, Vista 32 User Account Control will intercept the software and driver, each time you try to use the same, and ask your permission to continue using the same. 

In Vista 64 bit, all software must meet compatibility issues and drivers must be digitally signed. If they are not, the software will not install, or if you can install the software or drivers, Vista will not load the software or drivers, to maintain system stability. Once Vista has marked and disabled the software or drivers as a threat, you may find you cannot uninstall the same. 

Microsoft recommends Microsoft’s Virtual PC 2007 instead of using multi-boot configurations. This program will allow you to install any or all versions of Windows in its own Virtual Machine Environment.   “Sounds like System Commander.” 

Despite the current problems running Vista, my Plextor hard drive software is still disabled, all other issues have been settled, I would not go back to Win XP.  As one of the first users of Windows NT, many years past, I know the hassle and will wait another year for the 64 bit version to grow-up.  

I know longer have the constant crashes in Vista with Vue 5, that I had in Win XP.

Okay! Major surprises with Vista. The Administrator privileges are for the most part gone, and now the System owns many of the Legacy devices and software to stop errant programs. 

This is a serious implication for those who install and upgrade Vista over an Older Version of Windows that contains older software and devices. Older versions of Widows use a different version of Installer than Vista. Unfortunately Vista does not make a distinction when upgrading. This means that if you want to uninstall the old software after the upgrade, you cannot is some cases. 

Vista has a new Installer permission and you cannot delete the registry keys without the original installer which is to uninstall the remnants left in the Registry using the special permissions. Another surprise is that if you shutoff the Service and then try to hack the registry to delete these Keys you will not be able to do so in some cases. This will leave a lot of junk in your registry, which in my case is logging Warnings and Errors at the rate of hundreds per day, 1520 in the past 5 days. 

Therefore, if you are going to install Vista, then do a clean install and avoid all of this headache!!

I would NEVER install a brand new operating system over an old one. The reason is that any of the instabilities will be carried across. Always do a clean install. Lets face it if you got a virus you would end up re-formatting your harddrive and re-installing everything again anyway. It is also a good opportunity to do a spring-clean of your harddisk and remove the stuff you don't use.
I always keep my data on a separate partition so reinstalling the Operating system means I don't even have to back up the data.

I agree, normally I do a clean OS  install, but was very curious to see how Vista was going to treat legacy devices and software.  I never saw so many redirects in so many folders you cannot open.  And, if you delete one of these folders, you just lost the pointers to files you may need.  

Actually I found Vist did an overall good install, with the exception that it failed to flag MS programs that use the old installer.  The other bugs I encounterd were again MS drivers for the most part that are not compatible, yet.  Microsoft is aware of the problem and is working on new drivers.  

So far there is no problem with Vue 5 in Vista.  However, with the new installer and its new permissions key, I am going to do a clean install now and then see how Vue will reacte when I try to uninstall the prog.  The new MS installer/uninstaller is the only program that can install and remove these registry key. So, unless someone comes up with a reg cleaner that can take care of the junk, it's going to be a headache for most.  

I do however, backup my data with Ghost on DVD's, even though it is on another drive.  As I work my drives preyty hard and it is not uncommon for one to fail from time to time.

I know this is about vista but it looks like a good place to ask. i have xphome and a eMachine mobo. the computer has been  restarting randomly. while playing bnw2, wow, rendering. could something  be wrong with the operating system thats causeing this? i've been thinking about doing a clean install of xp media edition. any adivice or anything to correct this problem would be very apreciative.

I haven't heard of a cure, you might check the web site of the prog.  In most cases when you get reboots a Videos card, Sound Card, or Mobo driver is at fault.  Especially if you have been overclocking.  The last and most dreaded is bad memory.  You can find out if the memory is bad by using a Memory Testing Program.  Try MemTest; http://www.memtest86.com 

You can look into the Events Viewer under Administrators Tools to see what prog or drivers are causing a problem. 

Quote - I haven't heard of a cure, you might check the web site of the prog.  In most cases when you get reboots a Videos card, Sound Card, or Mobo driver is at fault.  Especially if you have been overclocking.  The last and most dreaded is bad memory.  You can find out if the memory is bad by using a Memory Testing Program.  Try MemTest; http://www.memtest86.com 

You can look into the Events Viewer under Administrators Tools to see what prog or drivers are causing a problem. 

ok i booted up on the memory testing program. how many times or how many tests does it do? i had it runing for about 3 1/2 hours. it says it passed 3-4 times. did it do the same test multiple times or what?

Yes, three passes are usually enough to give an inidcation as to whether your memory has faults.  If you did not get any errors while running the test then you can rule out memory as a problem.

Video cards and the drivers are usually the next big problem.  This is a very complex subject, since the make of the mobo and the drivers used and installed are important in relation to the driver version of your Video Card.  

Example and older board uses VIA mobo drivers 4.43.  VIA indicates that your mobo you should not use drivers above 4.45.  Your Video card maker uses Card Drivers compatible with 4.40.  You install a new game and the game manufacturer says download and then install the newest 5.6 drivers to get the best of the game.  Unfortunately, when you do you may find, the video card works, but now the system is unstable.  Catch 22.   

So comparing what your mobo, video card, and game require is important in addressing how stable the system is.  The next consideration is the BIOS setup.  VIA, and many other chip makers will tell you what to turn on and what to disable to make the system more stable.  Some cards can use Agp fast writes others cannot, etc.  

As I mentioned this is not an easy take to diagnose.  It takes a lot of time and patience.  Use email Tech support for all of your hardware to see if there is a fix.  Someone may have a remedy.

thanks also the computer just restarted and it was only doing a fishy screensaver. when it booted up i looked at the event viewer and there was no errors or anything.

About the Events Viewer.  Go back in time and look when you were using the app and see if there is a warning or error for that event, whenever it didn't work for you or crashed.  By cliking on the event you can find additonal information about which driver, or other component may have come in conflict. 

If you have ZoneAlarm it may be causing a problem with the Firewall when you start the app.  

Another problem is the incompatibility of programs with Microsfts Data Execution Prevention.  You may have to exclude the app from DEP. 

Look in Device Manager and make sure there are no disabled devices.  

Make sure there is a page file, if turned off some apps will not work. 

Another consideration is that some apps require I. E. is installed or they will not work properly.  You may have to switch browsers to use the app.  

The list of possibilities is incredible. 

I have spent several days working with Vista. I have not overclocked any of my hardware and am using Vista approved WDM drivers. 

I am using a Pentium 2.8 Mhz Duel Core 915, NVIDIA DDRII 7600 GS 8X AGP v 3., and 2 gigs of DDRII 667 Mhz PC-5300 memory, with an ACPI compatible 350 Watt Power supply.  That gives me a 5.0 Performance Rating within Vista for a 32 bit setup. Note: All of my equipment is capable of 64 bit. 

After installing VUE 5 in Vista ( the clean install of the OS ) Vue crashed when I opened the app. It took several reboots of the OS and Vue before it finally opened. I unchecked the Test the Video Card attribute, and after that Vue stopped crashing and now runs fine. 

I am still waiting on the Retail version. However, Vista takes about 600 megs of memory, and is constantly running background apps for various purposes. Since Vue requires 1 gig to operate, I would suggest a minimum of 2 gigs of memory for Vista.

It took several days to sort out all of the Warnings and Errors caused by apps and the OS. After getting rid of old software and turning off services that made the system unstable, I did not need them anyway, Vista is running much better. However, I am still logging errors and warning from the operation of the OS, code tripping over code. Microsoft has more cleaning up to do. 

So, I really like the new look, but for now, unless you really need the Vista environment? Maybe the OS and Apps will have the problems sorted out by Fall.  As far as the 64 bit versions go, maybe even longer for Third Party Apps and Hardware to catchup.

But if you buy the update version of Vista ,it seems you need to have Xp installed So how can we do a clean install with Vista Upgrade ?

You are right, Vista Upgrade will not install from the boot option. I tried installing from the boot option to a new partition without XP installed and was denied access and told to run the DVD from the OS. I then tried to run from the boot option with Win XP installed and was told the same to Install Vista from XP. So, you must run Vista Install from the existing OS.  No CD XP disk verification will work either, it has to be on the hard drive. 

However, built into the installer is an option to allow you to do a clean install, or nearly clean install, using the existing OS partition.  As one of the options, Vista will collect ALL of the software on the drive and move it into a Folder named Windows.old, which you can delete after install if you want.  By the way, you will not be able to open or recover files from the Windows.old folder once it is created.

If you are concerned about the viability of the partition as I was and wanted to make sure there were no bad sectors, after install, I did a complete Checksum Scan with all recovery options enabled. A good thing as I found five bad files which were recovered along with one bad sector.
Before you try the following I would make a partition backup incase I got it wrong!!!

You can install Vista into another clean partition, creating a multi-boot configuration.  Later you could reclaim the XP partition with repartitioning software. 

I have to correct myself concerning the Windows.old file.  After the Vista install, you can access your old files and folders, however you cannot start the old version of Windows.

Thanks for your precision

http://www.kingston.com/flash/windowsvista.asp

If your short on memory and your board is maxed out and you are thinking of upgrading to Vista, check this out.  

The use of Flash Memory and USB drives with MS ReadyBoost is of particular interest.  A card reader and some very fast flash like x133 or better could juice up the system even more.  

I do not know the maximum rate of read and write of flash in relation to USB, but figure there is a limit to the amount of data that could be transfered, which means too fast a flash would be of little use.  Maybe the photographers out there could give a read on this. 

According to MS Vista the use of SuperFetch and ReadyBoost through USB could boost the load times of apps, but do not know how that would affect rendering in Vue.

I should write a book!

I got the USB info from http://www.usb.org/developers/packaging about the data rates for High Speed USB transfer, which is up to x40. That still does not indicate whether that memory is standard or flash. I have many Jump drives which are x10 to x20 and they will now work with ReadyBoost. 

I got more info from Crucial about USB Flash Drives http://www.crucial.com/store/listmfgr.asp?cat=drives+storage that indicate the reads are twice as fast as the writes. 13 meg read x80 and and 25 meg x160 writes for Very High Speed USB 2 Flash. So, there is a big difference between USB speeds and x rates for all USB 2 memory drives. 

Microsoft says USB Flash Memory for ReadyBoost. So, that would mean a very High Speed USB 2 Flash drive or a Flash Card Reader that can read Flash memory, which is usually x40 and higher?   In fact I have several x133 2.2 gig microdrives with a Card Reader, and they will work with ReadyBoost. I also have a friend who has x300 flash memory, so the rates can go up pretty high, but are they necessary?  

If USB High Speed 2 can only transfer at a rate of x40, I am still in the dark as to why ReadyBoost needs anything higher?

Microsoft KB’s also state that many manufacturers use a small cached Flash memory at high level and then the remaining memory at low level, which is not compatible with ReadyBoost. They also indicate Kingston memory meets the specs.

Well I won’t know how all of this will effect Vue until they ship the Retail. Man my teeth are getting short!!!