Not sure if it's okay to do this or not, but I did not notice anything in the TOS forbidding it, and a search revealed that a few others have mentioned something for sale here from time to time.

So ... 

Anyway, apologies in advance if anyone finds this crass, but we (me and the ol' lady) have an ongoing auction at eBay (ends in 2 days) that may be of interest to some ... i.e., Poser 7 SE Upgrade, still factory sealed.

eFrontier forbids the sale of their products. Basically if you buy it you own it for lifed!

I thought at one time they were permitting a transfer of lisence if you wrote to get it done officially. I wonder what I am misremebering? Anyway, I would assume that anything on eBay was trayf :)

I don't believe that for a moment:

http://www.e-frontier.com/article/articleview/347/1/484?sbss=484/

3DSMax, on the other hand, forbids transfer of ownership.

http://www.e-frontier.com/article/articleview/1783/1/485?sbss=485/

Here is the link to e-Frontier.

While the seller claims that the item is new, we have no way of verifying that. Also, they did not have a link to the transfer of ownership form either, which is a requirement to selling a new product, which makes their sale technically against e-Frontiers TOS.

I agree that sale as a pseudo-distributor is prohibited.  If the person has not opened the product, they should return it for a refund.

Otherwise, it is perfectly legal to transfer a license with sale of a 'used' product.

Technically, I did not buy it. I purchased the upgrade and was sent 2 copies. I was originally charged twice. But this was all a mix-up. An e-frontier rep reversed the charges for one of the copies (I should still have a copy of that email somewhere) and told me to keep it, to give it away or something. The rep said nothing at the time about having to transfer the license, and if giving it away is okay, why is it not okay to sell it? As I did not really purchase and have never opened this particular copy, I don't see why I should be bound to the eula. But then, what do I know?

In any case, sorry to bother everyone.

I sold my Poser 5 to a mate, I downloaded a Transfer of OWnership form  from EF and sent it back filled in, in an e-mail, received confirmation of transfer back,  job done!

I did the same although I sold my copy of P4 on ebay BUT I had to fill out a transfer of Ownership form with the buyers info, my info and sent to  EF. But I think this only applies to used copies. I even inquired about it when I sold my copy of P2 I just wanted to make sure.

Software companies that include a denial of legitimate ownership transfer of their products in the applicable tos, whether by sale, trade or gift,  have violated the law. The most they can legally do is deny support on the qualification that such services are limited to the original owner by purchase contract.
Intellectual copyrights for software are currently a matter of intense debate, especially in the international courts. The Uniform Computer Information Transactions Act is not yet law, which means that the principles of "fair use" and "first sale" still apply.
One of the better known suits in this category involved Caere, the makers of Pagekeeper Pro. Caere filed suit against a customer who attempted to sell a used, legitimately purchased copy of their product on eBay, just as you have. The defendant filed a counter-complaint and won easily. So if eFrontier threatens to sue, throw a party. You've just purchased a winning ticket in the litigation lottery.

they should probly add this info to the copyright forum. the last I heard, e-frontier banned the resale of their product on e-bay, but allowed it by other means. as I ain't a lawyer, I dunno if they're aware of any case history involving caere and e-bay, nor if they still have the "no e-bay" rule.

Well, if the box hasn;t been opened and the serial number registered why would you need a change of ownership? As far as E-frontier is concerned , if it hasn;t been registered it's not yet "owned'. The problem I see is it's an UPGRADE version and should only be sold to someone who has a legitimately registered prior version of Poser.

mike

I did not realize when I listed it that e-frontier has a thing about such auctions. (I guess I don't read all these TOS and EULAs as carefully as I once did.)

I sent them an email explaining that I did not intend to cause any trouble. I have not heard anything back yet, but may tomorrow, er, later today.

Since e-frontier knows for a fact that it is not pirated and new (since they gave it to me), maybe they will make an exception for me. If not, i.e., if I have to cancel the auction, very sorry to any and all interested parties in advance.

I really don't understand why you shouldn't sell this copy at Ebay. In Germany it's legal to sell used or new software at Ebay, no matter what Efrontier or whoever might think about it or put in their EULA.

Well, I don't want to get into specifics as I don't want to get anyone into trouble, but a rep essentially told me it is up to me, that I may yet get into some trouble with the legal department, but that essentially this can be sold as such since she, er, he or she, knows I am honestly representing it as new, unregistered, and unopened. (Believe it or not; I don't really care.)

So I guess the auction is still on, at least until further notice, and I'm hoping if the legal department doesn't like it, that the advice from their own rep will kinda, sorta suffice to get me off the hook.

I once held a position at another site that enabled me to strike deals with CL (E-Frontier may be different in this case ),as well as other developers.

They would send me a dozen or so Boxed, copies to redistribute to staff or friends for promotional use. They were, for all intents and purposes NFR's (Not For Resale), and I never sold them but gave them away.

These were not upgrades, but full blown, legal, register-able copies of Poser 5.

Unless those copies serial numbers were flagged as NFR, there would be no way to tell the difference.

(Other companies may set aside a block of special serial numbers to use just for promotional copies, contest prizes,etc.and would make sure it was known,said software was NFR by flagging the serial numbers, and slapping stickers on the boxes,and manuals)

But my Poser copies had no such stickers... The recipient would register the copy as if it was purchased, and was eligible for upgrade pricing,as well as any other support that came with being a registered user.

I don't think EF minds so much the putting of legitimate copies in the hands of others in the interest of promotion...but when someone else is "profiting" from it...that is where they have a problem.

For example, If I had SOLD those copies to others,rather than giving them away...I'm sure they would been upset with me for "Profiting" from their software, that they gave me to redistribute in the interest of promotion.

Your case is different obviously...You acquired it as a result of a mistake, in which they said "Keep it".

And because there is no transfer of license involved...You have found yourself in a unique position to either find some poor artist that could really use that upgrade and give it to them, or maybe hold a mini contest and let someone win it.

Sure...you wont get the few bucks it might yield on eBay...but you would have done something that enables you to give back to the community.

Again..just some info and my opinion.

Note: I took a personal beating in shipping costs getting those NFR's to others...Be clear about who absorbs the shipping costs if you decide to give or contest it away.

Good luck.

Tom

Tom, thanks for the input.

Actually, I did consider the contest thing for a while, but a previous inquiry about holding a contest here at Renderosity elicited no response. That was a couple of years ago, and I admit I did not follow up on it like I should have. Nevertheless, I am sure that experience had a bit to do with feeling like it might be a hassle, or that I might be too much of a nobody -- from the point of view of some -- to do such a thing.

Again, the feeling was probably not justified, but there you have it. In any case, I did not pursue the idea.

Instead, I decided to let my mom sell it. She is on a fixed income. She keeps the money. Not that it matters one way or the other, but I did not profit from the sale, not in any direct sense anyway, i.e., I suspect she will bake me a cake or something ....  ;*)