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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 28 11:20 am)
Subject: Diamonds That Look Like Diamonds in Poser 6 - How?
Attached Link: Poser Diamond Model
The model uses unconnected faces, so if this is not wanted simply import the object from the geometry golder and sellect weld on the import panel. Otherwise the model loads from a prop folder.
File list:
ReadMe's
ReadMe_Diamond01.txt
RuntimetexturesDiamond01
Diamond01_Template.png
RuntimelibrariespropsDiamond01
Diamond01.png
Diamond01.pp2
Diamond01.rsr
RuntimeGeometriesDiamond01
Diamond01.OBJ
Quote - Acadia - Post a background image, and I'll have a whack...
Thanks, but I don't want a background on the image. I am making renders that are backgroundless (.png with transparent alpha channel) for my graphic group so that the image can be transposed onto any background.
I tried doing what someone suggested and placed 4 hi res balls around, but not touching the figure so that I could erase them after the render, but the result was the same as if they weren't in the scene at all.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
I don't want a background, so I tilted it up so that it was above and in front of the figure (behind the camera). Here is the screenshot from the side. The dome is 1% of it's actual size, but I reduced it to 1% so you can see how I've tilted it in order to avoid a background behind the figure when I render and save the image.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
I'm not sure that's ever going to work out right. You want any background to show, straight, through parts of the object; but in real life the light directly behind a gemstone would never shine straight threw. It would get distorted, through refraction and reflection; dozens of times, before shining clear through the front side of the object. As well as be mixed with light being reflected and refracted, from the other sides of the object, withing the gem. You'll really need to re-render the object for each environment(Sky Dome texture).
The best work around I can think of is to use a grey map on the sky dome texture. Then, with Photoshop, clear out the extreme black and white values?
just to agree with somebody above, I was reading the maxwell render manual yesterday and it looks pretty good IMVHO. they are using the terms "reflected caustics" and "refracted caustics". if one looks at carrara renders of diamonds, one also sees those concentrated areas of light that are generated when caustics are enabled. they are likely due to repeated internal reflection and consequent refraction upon exit, which forces some beams to converge, due to the radial symmetry of the diamond cut. some may use the term "brilliance" (rather than caustics) when referring to the physical phenomenon.
It's under the RDNA free downloads. It's misspelled and called "Tiera" instead of "Tiara".
I sent you a PM
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
I used the sky dome as above, only at 100% for the render. But it was angled as above. I applied a blue sky with a few clouds texture.
I also applied a shiney chrome texture to the circlet and diamond_base, and did a reflection and refraction to the diamonds.
Here is the material room set up for the diamonds:
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Acadia, the material you posted a few posts ago had diffuse color turned it - that will ruin the effect. In this last one you turned the diffuse color to black (effectively turning it off) and you noticed you're getting closer.
But you're still trying to use reflection with the Fresnel node. If you're using the Fresnel node, you should not be using the Reflection node as well. The Fresnel node includes correct calculation of reflection and refraction and by you adding another reflection you're overdoing it.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
I also see you're using the regular built-in specular on the root node. I think you'd want to use a much smaller highlight size on that. Probably closer to .2 or .1.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Ok, so lower the specular and get rid of the relection node...got it. As soon as my render is done I'll give that a try.
This is oh so frustrating...but at the same time kind of fun! I'm learning stuff, hehe
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Here is the material room
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Here is the render.
What do you think? Like diamonds?
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
That tiara doesn't have the shapes of real diamonds at all. The back is flat instead of having a cone shape made of facets. And the front of the stones only have 7 facets - a real diamond has over 50 facets on the front and without those facets any "physics" based simulation of light is not going to make them look like diamonds. They're going to look like flat pieces of bevelled glass.
I noticed that the prop actually comes with a diamond photo texture - I suggest you use it for this prop. If you like, you can still improve the original as I've done here. A proper specular highlight size, and some fresnel effect reflection helps improve them - I think this looks fine.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Although now that I see what you did on that last update, it looks pretty good! So what do I know. LOL!
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Quote - Acadia I just downloaded that prop and I'm so sorry to tell you but you're wasting your time.
That tiara doesn't have the shapes of real diamonds at all. The back is flat instead of having a cone shape made of facets. And the front of the stones only have 7 facets - a real diamond has over 50 facets on the front and without those facets any "physics" based simulation of light is not going to make them look like diamonds. They're going to look like flat pieces of bevelled glass.
I noticed that the prop actually comes with a diamond photo texture - I suggest you use it for this prop. If you like, you can still improve the original as I've done here. A proper specular highlight size, and some fresnel effect reflection helps improve them - I think this looks fine.
Yes, the one you did does look great! When I tried using the texture that came with the tiara all I got were stones that looked like ugly pearls, nothing like a diamond at all.
I'm going to use your set up and save it as a material set for future use, thanks so much :)
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Thanks :) I sent you an email.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
O.K. Check your e-mail. I ran collectsceneinventory.py, through in a Masks.PSD, and saved a Tiara Transparency.PNG file.
If you'd like to export another .PNG, with areas within the Tiara clear, take back the Opacity of the "Solid Opacity Tiara" layer. The layer above it has had it's Grey Pixels removed, but was a little thin in my opinion.
And there is an extra, Mask, .PZ3.
I'm probably OT for the main thread, here.... Ahh.... My apologies.
Angelouscuitry - the Parmatic link above leads to the seawater discussion. :( A search at RDNA for "parmatic" comes up blank. Do you have the correct link? (I hope....)
===========================sigline======================================================
Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking. He apologizes for this. He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.
Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below. His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.
That's the one! Thank you! :)
===========================sigline======================================================
Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking. He apologizes for this. He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.
Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below. His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.
regarding that tiara model, is there something wrong with my monitor, or are those diamonds flat, and the hexagonal mounts disconnected from each other? p.s. I tried doing caustics with a diamond in poser, but gave up after an overnite render that looked like a piece of window-glass. took about five minutes to render in carrara. after 50 minutes in maxwell render, I got a grainy image that showed promise, but I later learnt that caustics and especially dispersion (fire) slow maxwell down to the point of unusability.
Miss Nancy: Using dispersion with Maxwell can add further time to complete the render but nothing else I know of can create the acurate light splitting (rainbow colours) that Maxwell can. Increase the abbe value of the diamond material being used in Maxwell to speed up render times. Using caustics alone with Maxwell does not slow down the render too much.
becco - thanks for the info. I couldn't find any answer in the maxwell forum on why my default renders, whether 5 minutes or 50 minutes, are extremely grainy. I saw one render in the maxwell forum that showed dispersion in a head-on view of a diamond ring, but not caustics. I am trying maxwell studio, the stand-alone app. dispersion is apparently impossible in carrara. a good display of dispersion and caustics would be a side view of the diamond at near right angles to the light source (from above at a 15 degree angle), in which the caustics and spectral effects are projected on the plane upon which the diamond sits.
You also need to consider the environment being rendered. Closed interiors always take far longer to become noise free than outdoor ones using sunlight. Try to avoid using too many light emitters and white (rgb: 255/255/255) materials. The best defined caustics come from using small, high powered light emitter/s. Maxwell is based on physical 'real world' properties and a good photography book comes in very useful with Maxwell!
For some dielectric materials a coating layer controlled with a gradeated texture can give some nice surface colour variations withou the decrease in render times that happens when dispersion is activated. The preview image I done earlier shows a glass material with a coating.
o.k., thanks for the tips, becco. those glass rendered details look very nice. I used the default sample setting (10 I think; may have even dropped it to 5). it was an outdoor scene, probly with some lights, which I could see in the list but which I couldn't find in the 3d scene. i used an african equatorial sun setting around 11. a.m. will try it with adjustments. the graininess reminds me of a photo taken with very fast film, very brief exposure, poor lens. hence I daresay the manual may have some tips on fixing it up, in terms of camera/lens/diaphragm/film/ISO settings.
Miss Nancy: Ok - I think that's the problem - you have set the sample level much too low. Set it around 25 (or higher) with an high render time. You can then stop the render when you are happy with the quality. With those settings too low you get stuck if the render is naff and have to start all over. For my proper renders I usually do some small test renders to check lighting etc and when ok I leave a full render overnight while I sleep!
Becco_UK
Thank you for the diamond model. Might take a while but I'd be willing to put some time into seeing if I could make it sparkle in a Poser animation.
Without you going far out of your way, would you (or anyone else) say "That is not a dead-end street, you CAN make it sparkle in Poser with the right material and light and raytrace settings?"
::::: Opera :::::
You could make it sparkle nice!
Look for Ockham's Free Stuff. He has a python called LightPanel. Load a Ball prop into your scene, and make sure its x,y, and z coordinates are 0, 0, and 0. Then Parent all of your ligths to it, with the script. Make a Key frame. Skip X many frames. Rotate the ball 359 degrees. Make a key frame and render.
You'll light us up like disco night at Hooters!
I am pretty new to this type of render, but
I think the refraction is pretty damn good.
Daffodills from Transpond
Crystal/Diamond model by John Austin (Becco_UK)
John thank you for this great model.
It is a perfect 57 facet brilliant cut, right?
Four spot lights
Only one of which renders shadows (depth map)
No AO, IBL
Nodes: Reflect and Refract on GROUND
Nodes: Reflect and Refract on diamond
Made many lighting tests with weak settings,
then cranked everything up for this render.
I am highly inexperienced in raytrace render settings,
and did not really know what I was doing;
for instance, I have not the slightest idea what
"irradiance cache" is!
I would welcome feedback on these setting as
some may be too agressive and a waste of render
time for no gain.
The transparancy might be too high; don't think
you should be able to 'see through' a diamond
that clearly. Nor should the reflections be so
perfect, like a mirror, right? Or....am I wrong?
System:
AMD Athlon 3500+
4 Gig RAM
Twin Raptors in RAID0
Windows XP Pro
Poser7 sr1
RENDER TIME: 3030 seonds
I am rendering an animation now with these exact settings,
just to see how the sparkle goes as I move the camera.
Twelve hours from now I will only have 14 frames,
but that will still be 1/2 second of interesting viewing.
Will post tomorrow.
::::: Opera :::::
P.S. Needed: model maker to create beautiful jewelry finding
for this. Engagement Ring. Studs for earings. Please contact
me concerning paid commission to do so.
operaguy: Thank you for the comments about the diamond prop I made. I don't know about its 'perfect 57 facet brilliant cut' though! I made the model in Cinema4D using a plugin - my proper work with it was seperating all the faces and making a texture map.
I agree Posers' render engine (and materials) are often underated. The refraction looks great on your render.
Can't make my mind up about the reflection though - should the reflection when looking at the grazing angles be greater than when viewing a surface full on? That said if Poser doesn't support fresnel then that's probably the best it's going to get. Can the strength of reflection for individual faces be controled with a texture map (this would rule out animations though).
Most people percieve a diamond to be perfectly transparent so I think your render is spot on with that.
I look forward to seeing the animation.
Just noticed your material screen - for your test it probably is too late now but the diamond refraction value is set to low. Also, do you need to adjust the refraction value as well as the refraction value?
Gemstones (Index Of Refraction):
Agate 1.544 - 1.553
Alexandrite 1.746 - 1.755
Almandine 1.75 - 1.83
Amber 1.539 - 1.545
Amethyst 1.532 - 1.554
Ammolite 1.52 -1.68
Andalusite 1.629 - 1.650
Apatite 1.632 - 1.42
Aquamarine 1.567-1.590
Axenite 1.674 - 1.704
Beryl 1.57 - 1.60
Beryl, Red 1.570 - 1.598
Chalcedony 1.544 - 1.553
Chrome Tourmaline, 1.61 - 1.64
Citrine 1.532 - 1.554
Clinohumite 1.625 - 1.675
Coral 1.486 - 1.658
Crystal 2.000
Crysoberyl, Catseye 1.746 - 1.755
Danburite 1.627 - 1.641
Diamond 2.417
Emerald 1.560 - 1.605
Emerald Catseye 1.560 - 1.605
Flourite 1.434
Garnet, Grossular 1.72 - 1.80
Garnet, Andradite 1.88 - 1.94
Garnet, Demantiod 1.880 - 1.9
Garnet, Mandarin 1.790 - 1.8
Garnet, Pyrope 1.73 - 1.76
Garnet, Rhodolite 1.740 - 1.770
Garnet, Tsavorite 1.739 - 1.744
Garnet, Uvarovite 1.74 - 1.87
Hauyn 1.490 - 1.505
Iolite 1.522 - 1.578
Jade, Jadeite 1.64 - 1.667
Jade, Nephrite 1.600 - 1.641
Jet 1.660
Kunzite 1.660 - 1.676
Labradorite 1.560 - 1.572
Lapis Lazuli 1.50 - 1.55
Moonstone 1.518 - 1.526
Morganite 1.585 - 1.594
Obsidian 1.50
Opal, Black 1.440 - 1.460
Opal, Fire 1.430 - 1.460
Opal, White 1.440 - 1.460
Oregon Sunstone 1.560 - 1.572
Padparadja 1.760 - 1.773
Pearl 1.53 - 1.69
Peridot 1.635 - 1.690
Quartz 1.544 - 1.553
Ruby 1.757 - 1.779
Sapphire 1.757 - 1.779
Sapphire, Star 1.760 - 1.773
Spessarite 1.79 - 1.81
Spinel 1.712 - 1.717
Spinel, Blue 1.712 - 1.747
Spinel, Red 1.708 - 1.735
Star Ruby 1.76 - 1.773
Tanzanite 1.690-1.7
Tanzanite 1.692 - 1.700
Topaz 1.607 - 1.627
Topaz, Imperial 1.605-1.640
Tourmaline 1.603 - 1.655
Tourmaline, Blue 1.61 - 1.64
Tourmaline, Catseye 1.61 - 1.64
Tourmaline, Green 1.61 - 1.64
Tourmaline, Paraiba 1.61 - 1.65
Tourmaline, Red 1.61 - 1.64
Zircon 1.777 - 1.987
Zirconia, Cubic 2.173 - 2.21
Casting Shadows, may be pertinant for this render, but is intensive. I never want shadows, and always keep it off; becasue it's a hog, and am always trying to aviod shadows anyhow.
The RayTrace value is how many times a ray will bounce, and receord, between two mirrors. This scene is especially effected by Ray TRacing, but the manual reccomends 3 to start with.
Irridesence has to do with light levels, on objects. If you lower the value you become more accurate, but add render time, and vs. versa.
I doubt you're using DIssplacement, and it's kinda intenseive.
Attached Link: Fresnel Effect in Poser
Poser does support Fresnel - there is even a fresnel node! If you are doing clear glass, diamond, water, anything that doesn't color the refractions, you should be using the fresnel node.If you're doing colored glass, ruby, wine, cranberry juice, anything that does color the refractions, then you should use separate reflect and refract nodes. The refract should be colored. The reflect should NOT. Please follow the link to my discussion of the importance of the fresnel effect and how to do it for many different types of materials correctly in poser.
Also, as I said earlier, gems are cut to take advantage of total internal reflection. Under most viewing conditions and angles, you cannot see through the bottom of the gem. I suggest that if you place the gem in a ring or other jewelry setting, you will not actually directly view the bottom facets. So you should create two material zones (use the grouping tool) and put a different material on the bottom facets. They should be just perfect reflectors, like a mirror.
Operaguy, I think a lot of sparkle is due to direct reflections of the lights in your scene. This is the job of specular nodes. I like the glossy one. If you put a glossy node into your shader, it will help - as you rotate the gem, it will pick out individual facets that face the right way to catch the light and they become really bright white, while nearby facets will continue to show the reflect-refract because they miss the light.
Also, your sphere-map is connected to a solid color. Instead you should connect it to an image map with some high-contrast shapes or blobs. Or even better, surround your gem with a real environment sphere, including sky, clouds etc. or for indoor actually assemble a room around it.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
I did not use real reflections at all - I used a spheremap. The top material is doing refraction so you can see the bottom, but the bottom is just a spheremap. Both top and bottom are using glossy specular.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
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All of this is interesting, but it's not helping me with my problem :)
I am trying to use a free tiara from RDNA and have the stones look like diamonds.
I managed to find the Tiara at RDNA in the free stuff. So if someone would like to try all of this theory on that, I would appreciate it very much.
It's in the RDNA free stuff and it's called: 13Days Past - Ballerina Tieras If you search for TIERA it pops up.
"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi