We in the UK are shocked and appauled by recent events at the Virginia Tech University. Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and families at this difficult time.

Thank you Bryster....  What is needed is better mental health care and and better school feedback.. Educating the people about depression...   I suffer from a form of depression. I been like this most of my adult life...  I can tell you personally that most people don't understand it....

tom271 
I've suffered from clinical depression for the past 9 years and, believe me, it's totally misunderstood.  I've been on anti-depressants since I was diagnosed and they keep me from being suicidal, which would be a disaster for my family.  I hate the side-effects but I take them.

theBryster
Thanks for the post, Chris.  It means a lot to us.

Victoria:  I hear you...  

Bryster:  I forget to mention that better gun control should be added to my list of things to do....

It is a shame all those lives lost, our thoughts are with the family and friends left behind.  Sharen

I live an hour from there
my niece lives in the dorm where the shooting occurred, luckily she wasnt home at the time.

words cant express the shock and sorrow.
prayers to all involved.

BT

Shock and horror is understood. My thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends of those lost…very reminiscent of 9/11. Definitely mental illness is misunderstood not only here in the States but throughout the world. Half the battle is knowing and understanding your illness but it takes an adult attitude to take control and responsibility for that deviation once notified of it. Obviously the State courts knew about this individual’s mental shortcomings but never informed the appropriate institutions about this individual’s malady. Something like the problems the world had during 9/11 between agencies.

 As far as gun control goes, it was not 10 minutes after the incident occurred that the left wing politicals decided to exploit the situation then came out lobbying yet again the gun control issue as was expected…followed a few minutes later from the right wing partisans. As I see it, gun control laws are hovering on too stringent as I see it in this country now as it is. As I see it, and I’ve seen it from many different perspectives, stronger gun control will definitely not alleviate the problem of murder since our present gun control has not put a dent in the situation. Furthermore, other “civilized” countries that practice gun control have had no change in their murder rates due to gun control worldwide and as a matter of fact, their homicides have increased over the years from gun crimes.

With all due respects controlling guns in the U.S. which where used originally to battle King George and the British…mind you, that was why King George made the possession of guns illegal to begin with in the British Isles and it’s colonies prior since it was afraid of it’s downfall, is why America provided the 2nd amendment to the U.S. Constitution against future tyranies hopefuly including it's own.

Many would argue that if the student’s where allowed to carry their side arms onto the campus instead of having to keep them outside the campus in their vehicles as mandated by campus rules, people would have defended themselves and many would not have died in this incident and I agree.

Wasn't there a school shooting in Ohio or Utah or somewhere like that where the principal of the school had to run a half mile to his car to get the gun in it and returned to stop the person who was there shooting ppl?

Anyway, if it wasn't a gun, it would be something else that could cause someone deadly harm. When there's a will there's a way. Knife, car, explosive from house-hold items, chemical weapon from house-hold items, to a rusty nail in a baseball bat, or just the bat. I know ppl who collect swords.

@ Quest: I do agree. There was a time when a gun was known as the "great equalizer". I, for one, would feel more safe with a side arm on me at all times. If someone were to threaten my life I would at least stand a chance to equalize the situation. Personally I like my right to bear arms.

Absolutely, I totally agree! Someone would think twice about bringing harm towards another person if they knew they where fully capable of defending themselves.

Not if they are as crazy as that boy was...!  sorry to disagree with you on some points Quest...  Some people want students to be armed..!  They say that would have stop the shooter...  I say they are crazier... Ignorant

Furthermore, other “civilized” countries that practice gun control have had no change in their murder rates due to gun control worldwide and as a matter of fact, their homicides have increased over the years from gun crimes.

Apparently their attempt at gun control was a failure... I'm sure companies that defend guns like the N.R.A.'s money has a lot to do with it..   tell me of a country Who has good quality gun control and then tell me they have a gun problem..    a motorcycle owner has more rules imposed on them than guns owners do....   Go to Virginia to a gun shop and see...  M16 are on sales... hurry!    Captured guns in NYC are mostly from Virginia...  did you know that?

My broad brush solution:

• Stop the pharmaceuticals companies from trading our health for good profits.

• Increase the metal health quality of this country.. get the psychiatrist off his bottom and do some real work..

• Educate people on mental illness.. so it becomes understood..

• Stop pumping pills into people and instead use understanding and real care..

• Stop defending gun sales for reasons of " just because"...   Good gun control has lowered NYC's gun incidence "significantly"

• Stop the sales of guns without a quality background check...  and a license with as much attention on it as a valid car lincense..  the very least

I am from New Orleans, and after Katrina occured the city police went around to everyone they could find in addition to what rescues they were doing and confiscated guns from registered owners. It did nothing to lessen crime, instead the local gangs were embolden and the local, law-abiding citizens were defenseless against them, and the police did nothing unless they had significant backup.

In Finland we have very strict gun control system.... and we don't have that kind of insane mass murdering cases. Usually shooting and murdering happens between two people in their home, not in streets or public places and never in schools. And I definetely don't want that students or any civilians here carry guns... that would be very scary.

What comes to US situation... I don't know which way is better.
prayers to all involved!

I feel very sorry for the victims and their families, but plain and simple there are more gun deaths per day in the US then there are per year in the UK I know there is a difference in population, but IMHO a high percentage of the difference has to be due to gun control....

I too was horrified at the news.  I too pray for the families.  Wake up call America!

The solution:  I have no idea. 

I agree with Quest that more laws are not the answer.  It is too late to control guns.  There are too many out there now and control means "no one but the criminal will have them" 

I agree with D_A_M in that if a gun was not handy then it would be bombs constructed via instructions on the web.  Would gun control laws have stopped the massacres in Africa by warring Tutsi (sp)?  Machetti's were the weapon of choice.  Or would the Iraqi parliment's passing of a law making it illegal for a citizen to have a gun stop the suicide bombers? 

When political machines start grinding in these here United States the results are too often over complicated as to appease every money contributing pact possible and keep the campaign money coming in.  At some point the politicians have to make a choice of the source of money, right wing or left wing.  Then they start compromising the bill so not to cut their buddy completely off his/her funds and support.  The result is usually wordy, non-enforceable, illegal (because of other laws or Constitution) and winds up in courts forever.  Look at the snafu about illegal aliens in USA with the key word "illegal".   We can't figure out how or why we should give "illegals" social security and other benefits.  I love my country but it has big problems.

Is this now the "Land of the free... and run amuck"? 

BUT... the problem is not in US only.  Human race is devolving.  All humans have choices and all choices have consequences.  I am so proud of the couple here that have acknowedge affliction of clinical depression.  I am so proud that they realized the consequences of not admitting  their medical and physcological needs.  Bravo, for your choices. 

IF it was known by someone that depression was apparent in the gunman's life previously then I venture the assumption that it was not kept a secret diagnosis from the young man himself.  He made choices.

Willie steps off soap box, realizing this is not a blog site. 

PS  I do not own a handgun.  Hand guns are designed with one purpose in mind, to shot people.  I have a shot gun that belonged to my grandfather. 

Thing is, I know a lot of ppl with depression, some more serious than others, and none of them have gone on a killing spree. To me, looking at the videos shown on the News, there seems to be a factor of hate in the person.

Personally, I would say it wasn't the weapon or the depression, but the hate. Hate can manifest itself in many violent ways.

Anyway, with all the talk about gun control, it just makes me want to go out and buy one. Negative attention to something always draws attention to it, and sometimes, indirectly, promotes it.

I agree with the comments above. This is a very sad event which like so many others, could have been avoided.

The issue of gun control is a vexed one. Australia had a tragedy of very similar proportions when a gunman killed over 30 people at Port Arthur historic ruins near Hobart in Tasmania in the 1990s. Sweeping gun controls were introduced, particularly relating to semi-automatic weapons. This took guns away from law abiding people, did little to remove guns from the hands of underground criminal elements, but did make it far far harder for the average person to get their hands on any sort of gun without good reasons, and without a cooling off period and police checks.

It is one thing to allow law abiding citizens the right to have guns, quite another to allow anyone - regardless of circumstances or state of mind - to buy high powered lethal weapons with as much ammo as they can carry with little or no control...

Just my 2c worth.

As you may suspect, I started this thread without knowing that the gunman had these problems. As part of my own medical problems I experiance depression in part as paranoia and take the appropriate medication, so I understand - again in part - the thought processes that led this young man to his actions. (I should add that I have a debilitating nervous disorder so depression is not my primary condition)

I will not however add to the gun-control debate. We solved that problem - mostly - after Dunblain.

My thoughts and prayers remain as I stated in my first post.

Sorry Bryster.  I shouldn't have raved on.  The most important and really only important issue is heartfelt prayer for the survivors, friends, and families. 

My thoughts and prayers go out to the families at Virginia Tech.
I apologize if someone has already mentioned this and  I missed it. I find the main theme in these mass killings to be that of a victim of bullying finally snaps. I think that society and schools need to take a more proactive look at seeking out both bullys and victims of bullys and getting them into counseling at as early an age as possible. Both need help and at as early an age as possible. I was a wall flower in school. I tried to blend into the background as much as possible. I got voted the quietest in my class. I was small and afraid of being picked on. Once on a school bus some boys were pulling my hair. I didn't know what to do, I was sitting behing the bus driver and even that didn't get me protection and I got so upset that I snapped and turned and swung my fist at them. Luckily, one kid only had a small cut on his lip and that was the end of it. But I can totally understand the feelings of desperation when one feels unable to cope. However, there is no excuse for murdering innocent people. It is unfortunately a side effect of a mental illness and it will continue to happen until people interveen and help children who are shy get coping skills at a young age.
Thats my soap box. No amount of laws against weapons will change what happens, only getting to the root will help.

It is always terrible, seeing these kinds of things happen.
Thanks Bryster.
Thanks Riquelme8 too.
It bothers me a lot that the action is blamed on an illness. Millions, or even billions, of people suffer from mental and emotional problems, they don't go around murdering in cold blood. It's no excuse, just legal loophole to avoid justice.

As for gun ownership:
I think every U.S. citizen should own at least one hand gun. Shotguns are good too.
Possibly this should legislated, though I'm generally against government control of anything.
I was in the military, seen how they run things. The less they are involved, the better.
I'm apolitical, meaning I'm not involved in politics in any way; so I'm not turning to a political argument or commenting on anybody's political stance.
It is a question of government control, and rights of citizenship. It's not coincidental that the right to bears arms is the second amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The founders of the nation understood the importance of an armed citizenry.
Murder rates, crime rate in general, obviously will decrease as the percentage of private gun ownership rises. That's just common sense.

Tom: “Not if they are as crazy as that boy was...!  sorry to disagree with you on some points Quest...  Some people want students to be armed..!  They say that would have stop the shooter...  I say they are crazier... Ignorant”

Sorry not to have been more expressive, and it’s OK if you disagree but it is the fact that many students at Virginia Tech already have the right and do possess guns but are not allowed to carry them on campus as per campus regulations and often leave them locked up in their vehicles or dorms while at school. The logic then proceeds that if they had been allowed to carry their guns on campus, then, most definitely the number of students killed by this mad man would have been far less. Further…believe me, and I speak from personal experience, they would have used their side arms if they had been made available to defend themselves when posed with no alternative. This is without a doubt!

Broad brush solutions indeed…most of your solutions are “pie in the sky” wishful thinking which would be really nice even in an “ideal” world.

Even today a scientific poll asks could a travesty such as this be lessened by stricter gun control laws and 19% say yes while 79% say no. Many site the fact that guns can be gotten by the criminal elements.

Furthermore, no one is blaming this atrocity on mental illness to be use as an escape but it becomes readily obvious even to the untrained eye that the person ranting on the video (the murderer) and anyone viewing it would agree is exactly that…a psychopathic sociopath.

It is not lost that the murderer’s family has conceded and well understand the grief which this family member has wrought on innocent victims and are deeply moved and saddened by this person’s actions.

Quest: 

*Broad brush solutions indeed…most of your solutions are “pie in the sky” wishful thinking which would be really nice even in an “ideal” world.

Dare to Imagine.... 2008 election

guns should be banned thats obvious, in the states the gun lobby is too strong for the politicians to get this done , so they should let them pay for the damage they do. In cases like these i think 3 parties are guilty the one that uses the weapon , the one that makes it and the one that allows it. The argument that the killings could as easily be done with a knife or an stone are rediculous. authomatic weapons are designed for fast killing!
Weapon trade is all about making money , so ifyou want to stop it start making it unprofitable by sueing the companys for the harm they help creating.

I don't believe that banning guns would have stopped this or other tragedies. Even if outlawed, there would always be ways to get them. Heck how long have drugs been outlawed.

I don't believe that had the other students had their guns with them that this tragedy would have been lessened, in fact I would fear worse. I can imagine that in all the confusion of hearing gunshots, seeing people down, seeing others with guns drawn that it might have become an all out shoot out, with many innocents shooting other innocents. I can imagine the difficulty the police would have coming upon a scene such as that. So I also don't believe in carrying guns.

I believe that mental illness needs to be taken seriously and better attempts made to treat those with it. And to detect it at an earlier age. And medication without counseling is NOT an answer. Counseling and talking are the best avenues for helping people deal with problems in life.

With so many laws already in existance, crime is and always has been an issue. The times before guns were invented there still was a lot of crime recorded in history. There are many other ways to kill, a typical house or apartment is filled with bomb making materials, everywhere from chemicals to nails and pipes. All it takes are two things: the knowledge to put the weapon together and the will to do it. Banning guns only makes it inconvienent to use that type of weapon. Might as well ban crossbows too, and place barricades along sidewalks too because a car can easily kill many people as well.

Just look at Japan, a very strict country with very strict gun laws. The only civilian who can own a gun must be registered in a ligitimate hunting club and the weapon only appropriate for hunting. Yet all through the 90's when I was studying Japan one issue was the rise in crime. Knives took the place of a gun in many cases. And yes, a knife can kill/wound many, especially in a crowded place (subway, mall, etc).

Anyway, I, for one, like my right to bear arms. I tend to oppose any action of becoming a police state.

Guns should not be banned. That's just crazy talk.
Gun manufacturers aren't responsible for crime; the perpetrators are. I don't know where that kind of logic comes from. Only the person that aims the gun and pulls the trigger to commit murder is responsible for that action. No one else. People are, and should be made, accountable for their own actions.

Everything should banned by that reasoning. Milk, for instance, causes illness in a person that is lactose intolerant...ban it, outlaw dairy farming; that's the answer right?
Honeybees are deadly to someone with an allergy,.. exterminate them.
The list goes on.
A gun is a tool, nothing more. Wait, let's ban tools altogether, after all, axes have been used to kill people, hammers too... :tongue1:

It's clear to me that the same people that want to ban firearms also want to dissolve all those other annoying freedoms as well. So that a small minority of people in power can dictate every facet of daily life: What clothes you can wear, what car you can drive, what words are you allowed to say, what are you allowed to think, etc.

Fortunately, there are still many millions of Americans that value their freedom. It is a constant battle to retain freedom. There is always someone trying to take it away from you. You have to fight for it. Millions of Americans have died for it.
I would personally rather die than see the country turned into a facist police state. Everyone I served with in the military with feels the same way, as does the military as a whole.
Besides, if America becomes a facist, imperialistic state, what would that mean to the rest of the world?

let me see hammer, main use - knocking in nails
axe - main use chopping down trees,
gun - only use - killing things......

removing guns does not equate to removing all freedoms, I think you over re-act.

Half the middle east already think america is a fascist imperialistic state...... (I have friends still serving in afghanistan and in Iraq.)

just as guide I'm ex uk military and have lots of friends in the US military or retired military, and we are all proud of what we fight for and the idea of democracy, but the right to arms doesn't eqaute with democracy. This shooting is a tragedy but the capability for a mad man to perform such an attack is aided by the ease of gun availiability, with no other weapon is he likely to have created such a tragedy

"...with no other weapon is he likely to have created such a tragedy"

Tell that to the relatives of the 52 murdered (and 700 injured) by religious madmen in London on July 7th 2005, using explosives made primarily with common household ingredients. Other religious madmen attempted the same two weeks later ("allegedly"). Previously, in 1999, a political madman killed three and wounded 70 with a nail-bomb attack on a pub in London. All these mass killings (and "allegedly" attempted mass killings) occured in the UK after virtually all guns were banned here after the appalling outrage in Dunblane in 1996.

Whatever the merits or demerits of gun ownership by private citizens, these have no bearing on the desire and ability of homicidal maniacs to perpetrate mass murder. 

I wish these examples posted in here kept to the point...  to say that gun control is of no use because people can be killed with home made bombs is totally out of sink... 

Don't confuse gun control with "Total Violence Control"...   Gun control does not mean stopping all acts of crazy violence...  The gun is a method of choice for Violent outlets

Man has been killing man from the beginning of time..  and there are people who dream of a world without such violence...  I like being on that side...   I believe we can bring down world crime to new levels....  The gun, happens to be a "tool" used to commit a large part of these crimes...
Mental Health care is another Important area to address... 

But I'm just a dreamer...
one step at a time...

Quote - I wish these examples posted in here kept to the point...

100% Right.

So everybody knock off the political soap boxing and let the thread get back to what Bryster started it to be; Condolences to the familes and friends of the victims at Virginia Tech.

I'm sorry that I ever posted the comments that I did about guns, crime, etc. This is not the forum or website for those kinds of discussions. My apologies.

Don't have to kill something with a gun. They are great for target practice, the same like archery. It's even a sport.

Removing freedoms can always begin small. Like the snowflake the starts the avalanche. Start small then next time there's a precedent to build on it. It's divide and conquor. Don't have to remove freedom in one stroke, can do it gradually. For instance, put face recognition cameras in sporting events to curve crime by searching for known troublemakers. Then later put cameras at other public places, like street cornors, saying there's been success at the sporting event, so there would be greater success on the street. Or introduce tracking devices in schools then later to a larger population citing the success it has in schools. Always start small then build on it. Once there's a precedent, people are often more willing to accept more changes gradually.

Don't forget that subway gas attack thing in Japan during the 90's.

More ppl die in car accident than some madman going on a shooting spree. Anyway, no one talks about banning driving, which has also been used as a weapon.

I was listening last Sunday on the News, just flipping channels and heard someone say Europeans tend to think America is rather conservative, and the Middle East tend to think America is too liberal.

Also this week some bee researcher was on the News saying there's been a large drop in honey bee population which bee researchers believe is being caused by cell phones. That the signals are saturating and confusing the bee's ability to navigate.

And the most important point I wish to make, "Roman Holiday" is a darn good movie.

Lighten up ppl! :-)

Things like this seem to happen a lot more in the states then in other places. It's not hard to get a gun here either, but its not legal for anyone to get one and take it anywhere. U are really very much restricted in where to take your gun, and even on shooting ranges ur only allowed with 5 bullets in ur gun at once, and supervision is very strict.
Bullets barely cost anything, that not the problem, plus u can legally store thousands of them, but without a gun its hard to kill someone with them.
The crusial difference though is that u cant get a gun at young age, so u dont get young people playing around with them as easily, and the tight supervision also makes it a lot harder for someone to get their hands on one for things like this. If u make an instable impression, u can be denied ur gun.
Maybe people in the US should re-think if they want to keep guns legal. Sure its not the only reason these shootings happen, but it sure does influence how often they happen. And yea i do know the netherlands is much smaller then the us so its bound to happen more often in the states, but still, even in all of europe it doesnt happen quite as often as in the us! At least not that i remember having seen in the media.

Very simply put…once you know how to handle a gun…usually there should be no business with blowing people away. It would come naturally when you are threatened.

New study: from a general population of 100, 000 college people, 6 will be a homicide in a college setting in a year. Not all would be gun related.

Although even 1% would be way too much in senseless deaths, what”s happening now is a wakeup call which should have been long before but no body cared to listen.

Responsible people who understand gun control know what they are doing, emotionally immature people only create havoc for all civilized people.