This is a question that I think a few if not many of us here have. I've been curious to find the answer and figured perhaps it's best to post it up at the top here and see if it gets any attention. "CAN someone who owns poser 3 or 4 or Bryce 3 or 4 make money selling original images created with the software?" Can I go to my local webhost, set up a site and offer models CREATED from the base models in Poser 3 or 4? Bryce 3 or 4? IF not from the 'people' models then what about the 'primitives?' The basic squares, cones, and spheres that no one REALLY can copyright as they are just basic shapes that any child can create with a crayon? I have heard there are "restrictions" to the uses of the zygote models. Does this apply to the uses with the ones in Poser...which I would assume has nothing to do with zygote but Meta since they hired zygote for their creation. Or does it simply apply to the cds they sell so often on their main site (zygotes). This is something I think would prove VERY informative for many of us here since we are basically all trying to in one way or another "make a living" from our art and talents. Any answers would be greatly appreciated. PAN~ Graphic/Visual/underpaid/Artist in a corporate america environment.

Don't take what I say as gospel coz I'm no lawyer, but at the moment I'm preparing the Poserworld Cd so I've looked into this stuff...Any images created with poser are 100% yours unless you used a none zygote or metacreations download in which case you need to contact the artist...selling a mesh that contains even the smallest part of a poser or zygote (same thing really) model isn't permitted without permission and I would imagine a share of the profits (thats fair).....Steve

Ok I'm clear on the "using another artists" stuff so credit must be given...I agree with that most definitely. And I'm almost pretty sure that selling even the slightest part of a mesh that was not created by me would constitute some compensation to the original creator even if it's sold in Poser 4, but that would mean then that we are restricted to only selling "images" and not props we created in poser or bryce. If that's the case then anyone selling props or textures created in bryce, poser, or even in Raydream would be liable since they are using the original tools and models from these softwares. I don't own Raydream but my friend does and he makes spheres and other such things from what I've seen by clicking on a button (correct me if I'm wrong I've only seen it once). If he makes a sphere in Raydream and then simply adds a texture to it and calls it a Basketball...can he sell this prop? IS he liable because it's the default sphere in Raydream? If so what if you made a mace and while you may have scaled down the size of the sphere to fit on the end of the handle...you are basically still using their cylindar, triangles, and the sphere..can you now sell this? Or will a company that makes thousands on software be so petty as to sue you? This is ALL very confusing and I think it really needs to be defined. Perhaps a section here would TRULY help if it had clear defined legal explanations of what we CAN and can't do with the softwares. PAN~ (by the way thanks for the quick response Steve!)

I'd like to know more about this, too. Steve, could you tell me this, if I create an image (i.e., a picture of two people in Poser) can I publish that picture in a novel? Either as a cover design or as a grayscale image on the inside of the book. The picture, not the 3D meshes. I merely used Poser and Bryce as the tools by which I created it. Would I still have to contact MetaCreations to get permission to use my own image, just because I used their figures in it? In other words, would I own the entire copyright on that image? I'm planning ot give Meta a credit on the copyright page as the art media I worked in. Or as PANdaRUS is enquiring, does getting permission only apply to the actual 3D object meshes? Melanie

Free phone calls at the weekend Pan I'm always logged on LOL...you could sell the basket ball with no problem as you made it, the difference being you loaded a primitive not imported a model...now if you took the basket ball in bryce and exported it and retextured it then your selling a model made by someone else (even though its still just a sphere)...am I making sense :o) to be safe the best thing is never sell anything unless it was made from scratch or you make a deal with the original maker...Steve

No you don't need permission Melanie the image and all rights are all 100% yours, the only exeption is if your image included a download not from zygote or metacreations...for example if you used a download from the forum you'd need to ask the maker for permission. Steve If I'm wrong about any of this no suing please :o)

Thanks, Steve. You've helped a lot. I guess pictures would be like saying that if I wrote the story in WordPerfect, the story is all mine and Corel can't take a piece of my profit just because I used WordPerfect as the tool to write it in. Thanks again. Melanie

Ok, it would appear you are the answer man today Steve, lol, how about THIS one... What if you created a line of textures? Say like my PAN.WARE...and suddenly the demand was so great..that you figured what the heck let me sell them on a cd for a good price and offer up a nice collection of them. Do you get in trouble for using the basic template? Or do you have to create the texture maps from scratch in order to sell your textures? Fear not PAN.WARE is not going corporate, but I was just curious.... PAN~ Nothing better to do on a saturday but MAKE new textures...

BTW where do I send my consulting fee LOL(only kidding :o) I'm 99% sure that you'd be OK to do that as your allowed to post the textures freely on web sites...BUT you know your jeans texture (Awesome BTW)you may need permision from the maker of the jeans, or if it was a pic from a book then there permission or even both (I don't know)...hey if it was cheap enough I'd buy it :o)....Steve

I think that the basic rule of thumb to follow is this: After you "create" something and want to distribute OR sell it, consider this: Did you base your work on something else that someone else is selling? If someone downloaded your thing, would they be able to remove the parts that you created or in some way reverse engineer the thing and just have the thing that someone else is selling? If you can answer no to that then you're safe. That's why distributing textures is safe... No matter how you made them, you can't build an object just from knowing what the texture template was shaped like, so your not giving away something that someone would normally have to buy elsewhere. That's why you can sell objects constructed of primatives.. Nobody sells primatives, so you're not stealing the "sphere" profits from anybody else. That's also why you can't sell Zygote models with your own morphs applied. If people start buying your model and just removing your morphs, they've got Zygote's product, and never had to pay them for it. Anyway... I think that as long as you keep this in mind, the copyright issue will never give you a problem.

Acording to my lawyer, you have rights to do with as you will in relation to your own images created with the software. I have made a number of "Rave flyers" over this past summer, and the only thing that the lawyer told me to do is put some referance letting people know what sofwhere to use. (Logo's work) Hope that helps, -Gabe-

If you run the OBJ through, say Steve's UVMapper, you an create an all new template for the "new" object, since you have to save the object as a new object for the new template to work. On the subject of selling your OWN images- Yes you can. You created the scenery and the art. The materials you use to create the image are no different than buying a box of crayons to color a picture and sell it. Because that's all Zygote and MetaCreations is in regards to your art- Materials. BUT don't try to sell the materials themselves!!! THAT is where the legal snag is, because you aren't an authorized dealer to sell their materials. IF you make your own models and "morph" them up, you can sell those.

Wonderful information. I think this answers EVERYTHING for all of us. Thanks so much to all who contributed their information. All of us who were interested now know exactly what we can and can't do. We appreciate it so much. You've all been a great help. Melanie

Well, I'd definitely say Melanie just spoke for me too, hehehe...but I'm a bit worried on the prop issue though...I mean if you make a prop from their "primitives" do you then use their geometries which then gets you in trouble? I dunno...I'm totally for the "link" on the right side there. It would answer so many questions and since not everyone can consult their lawyers (as above...) if it was in plain english why even BETTER! PAN~ hoping to buy my baby a big house...

That's why they're called primitives, they are meant as building blocks to create new geometries. Anyone trying to hold a patent on such a basic geometric form would be laughed directly out of court. Geometries like these are generated with simple math. The fact is that software engineers can't even prosecute hackers for stealing entire programs. Don't steal anyone else's livelyhood and you'll be fine. I found some good primatives somewhere on the net, rounded cubes, squares etc... If you email me I'll let you know when I locate the site again. Be encouraged to make new stuff that way, I have been and it's lots of fun.