How how few posts in the forum and pictures in the Gallery, thinks it must be the frustration from using this software, mind you Poser is not any better

As far as the forum goes, I think people are taking good advantage of the search function to find answers to questions which is a good thing. I'm seeing fewer and fewer repeat questions.  For the Vue gallery, it seems to be flowing at about the same amount of posts. 

Forums are quieter yes, but I thought the Vue gallery was busier!!

Yes, and there is some absolutely superb, stunning work in the Gallery.

I would agree the pics are very good, which tales a lot of work. I posted a pic about a week ago. Which is a work in progress. I am still working on it but spending way to much time in poser building my characters, fitting clothes is hard work

I think its dreadful software. I have battled with Easel and upgraded to Esprit in the hope things would be better.

I have 4Gb Memory and a Core 2 Duo processor (I forget which one but a reasonable one). Nuff said.

I load darling Victoria in poser, add one outfit of clothes (White Rose from Aery Soul) and save. 

Load Vue 6 Esprit, no scenery - blank canvas, just Victoria. Load another copy of Victoria but this time say I want to use Poser shader tree (to compare colours). IT RUNS LIKE A DOG. SLOOOOOOWWWWWW. Render (Final quality). It crashes. Not every time, but often enough to make me go "Hey, I don't trust this software".

When it doesn't crash, the textures on one of the Victoria's clothes are replaced by the ones from inside her mouth. Not all the time, only when i render - they look fine otherwise. And it crashes again.

The colours of Vue's internal shaders are awful compared to Poser's. A render in Poser looks lovely, export it into Vue, position lights similarly and use Vue's shaders. Yuk. User Poser's shaders (if you can, without it crashing) - great. But try loading any scenery of moderate complexity and you run out of memory.

Okay, you say, "render externally". It works - sort of - I get two DOS windows, one with the renderer woking in it... fine, the other one opens and closes every 3 seconds for th duration of the render, making the computer unusable for anything since it steals the focus.

All in all, its nice software... limited I suspect by the OS (probably would be bettor on a 64bit OS)so I shouldn't be to harsh on it, but it runs badly on a fully spec'd 32bit machine, crashes often (it tries to recover but fails every time) and the shader tree is not good. The renderer is slow compared to firefly too.

A rant, I know, but I spent quite a bit of money on this software and all it seems to be good for is generating nice 2D backgrounds to import into Poser and I really hoped to be able to do more with it than that.

:((   <- my satisfaction with this software

Some evidence... attached screenshot of the two (identical Victorias). The one on the left (with the odd textures in her clothes) has nicely toned skin, almost identical to how it looked in Poser (this uses the poser shader tree). The one on the left uses Vue's shader tree.. now, I dont expect it to be identical, but it is AWFUL really, isn't it?? (Unless, you like green skin, of course).

Oh, final thing, notice how the right hand Victoria doesn't display properly in the orthogonal views either. 

STOP PRESS.. For no reason, other than I have not touched the program for a while, the orthogonal views just updated to look fine on bit Vs.

What is with that then?

oops forgot the screenshot

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1460007&member

In the picture linked above, i used PoserShaderTree for both the skin (SSS) and the dress fabric.

You may have another issue here, I know there are problems with resources and stuff, I've bitched about them enough myself.
However, if you care to look at the Vue images in my gallery here, every single one uses the Poser Shader Tree and is reasonably complex with lots of materials and Poser items, yes I had to purge memory a lot to get them done but I did get them done, not ideal I know but it can be done.
If you look at the threads here, you'll see me pop up quite regularly slagging off the resource issue of this software, that said i have also said this: It's the best bit of software I use, period [resource issue aside].
Maybe look for another reason for your issues, I don't have as much RAM as you [2 Gig] and I'm still sunning on a Pentium 4 HT 3.4 GHz and I use Vue6Inf.

A question: Are you running Vista as your operating system??

One of the big resource issues with using the Poser shader tree inside of Vue is the the Poser API is not multithreaded which causes Vue (or any program for that matter relying on the Poser API) to really bog down.  I've never been able to get decent results using the Poser shader tree inside of Vue but I've seen Fixer's and VinceBagnas images and they really are quite good, so it can be done.  

ahudson, why don't you post some screen shots so we can see what the problem is.

Quite Good???  

Quite Good???   :tt2:

ROFL!!

héhé!

Okay , I meant terrific - superb whatever superlative you want to use (LOL).  One of these days I need to really try and figure out how to use that Poser shader inside of Vue.  I don't ever get results nearly as good as you guys do.  Perhaps my lack of knowledge on the Poser shader tree.  Every time I render something in Poser, I want to run screaming from the room.  Is there some magic required to setting up the Poser nodes correctly? I have exactly the opposite problem that ahudson has.  Although I would of course always use Vue for Skin Shading, it sure would be nice to mix in the Poser clothing shaders.  It would be a huge time savings versus screwing around with Vue nodes to get clothing to look right. 

For my part, i almost use HDRI lighting. I know Posershadertree doesn't look the same with other lightings (i don't know them good though...)
HDRI lighting doesn't give highlights, so the strange highlights from Poser don't occur then. You have to play with reflections.

Try a Poser cloth shading with HDRI.

Nothing special here, just tick the boxes and bring 'em in [LOL].
maybe it's how I do the lighting, I honestly don't know!!

Quote - For my part, i almost use HDRI lighting. I know Posershadertree doesn't look the same with other lightings (i don't know them good though...)
HDRI lighting doesn't give highlights, so the strange highlights from Poser don't occur then. You have to play with reflections.

Try a Poser cloth shading with HDRI.

Hmm.  That's Interesting.  I thought that Vue was supposed to ignore Poser lighting altogether and just use the Poser shader treee in combination with whatever atmo/lighting setup used in Vue.  Why in the world would the the Vue render engine also add in Poser scene lighting on top of the Vue scene lighting?  If this indeed is what's occuring then this would surely explain the problems I have had using the Poser shader tree. 

Well I don't actually bother with the Poser lights at all, If I know I'm taking the pz3 into Vue I'll just use the standard 3 lights that Poser loads with because my understanding is the same as yours dburdick, in that Vue doesn't do anything regarding the poser lights!!

Quote -> *Quote -**For my part, i almost use HDRI lighting. I know Posershadertree doesn't look the same with other lightings (i don't know them good though...)

HDRI lighting doesn't give highlights, so the strange highlights from Poser don't occur then. You have to play with reflections.

Try a Poser cloth shading with HDRI.*

* 

Hmm.  That's Interesting.  I thought that Vue was supposed to ignore Poser lighting altogether and just use the Poser shader treee in combination with whatever atmo/lighting setup used in Vue.  Why in the world would the the Vue render engine also add in Poser scene lighting on top of the Vue scene lighting?  If this indeed is what's occuring then this would surely explain the problems I have had using the Poser shader tree. *

I talked about HDRI in Vue. I use P6, so no HDRI in Poser.

I load the DAZ Mil Cat in Poser and apply the free "Travis" texture fom Lyne. Download here you have to register

I apply to the Fur material channel the shader you see on the pic above. I add a fur map for the bump.

Remember, you have to greatly increase the bump value in Poser due to Vue conversion.

edit:
oups, i just saw i set up the bump just a little too high though...

There's another difference, I reset the bumps coming into Vue not within Poser!! [LOL].

How could you edit the bump into Vue without loosing the Poser Shader Tree?

Well there's 2 ways to alter the bump map, one is when you import you get an option to convert the bump, the default is something like -0.0008 or some such, so I up that by quite a lot depending on what I'm bringing in, [I could be wrong with how that bit works though] and the second way is inside the material editor inside Vue, there are options in there to alter the bump mapping, none of which affects the poser shader tree.
I'd be more specific but I'm at work now until 9 p.m. UK time so no access to my Vue [boohoo!!]

Wow, this is incredibly useful information.  Thanks to both of you. Agiel, if you are around and see this thread you should put this in the backroom under Poser-Vue Integration.  

VinceBagna, I see that in your Poser node setup you have applied an Edge blend to the Ambient and Alternate Diffuse nodes.  I think this might be the key. I generally just ignore those nodes, but I think it makes a huge difference in the quality of the Vue render you created.  It looks terrific.  Thanks again for the tips.

Straight Poser Import using the Poser shader with no edge blending in Poser

Observations:

The edge blending in the ambient and specular channels for Poser really helps.  I still think the skin is a bit too muted in the Poser import but it's a huge improvement over using non-edge blended shader.

I did not edge blend the clothes although I think it would also help quite a lot if I did so.

This is a very useful thread - all looking good guys & gals :)

dburdick, here is the screenshot I meant to post. The left hand Victoria is imported without specifying Poser shader the right hand is with Poser shader.  You can also see the display problem I mentioned.

As for the rest of the discussion, you have all lost me a bit I am afraid :)

Cheers

that display you are getting is quite common - I believe it is Vue trying to reduce the display complexity to avoid running out of resources

As FrankT says, the degradation of the object is down to Vue trying to adjust itself with resources to avoid a crash [AFAIK], whenever I see that, I stop what I'm doing and purge the memory and also something else inside options, clear history or something like that, I'm at work now so can't look for the exact but it's something like that!! That brings it back to normal.

As for Vista, the reason I asked is because I'd seen some other threads where there was problems with Vista in some way, I'd need to looka t the other threads to know for sure!
Does Vista have the same run in compatability mode that XP had, if it does you might want to try running it under XP compatability mode, worth a try maybe!

ahudson - Your problem is about the vue shader? Tell me if i'm wrong. You want to have the same skin with vue shader as with Poser shader tree? 
As you are running Esprit, you can't access to the advanced material editor (as me), so the vue shader you could construct may be limited compared to the Poser shader you could do into Poser.
For the display you get, i use the compatibiltty mode as i have only 512 memory. Sometimes the render get veeeeeeeeeery slowly, but hu... Vue capabilities worth the time, no?   ;)

vincebagna, Yes, I am not terribly demanding of my requirements, I simply want a good approximation to skin tones as in Poser. I can access the advanced material editor so there may be hope yet. :)

Cheers 

Quote - Thefixer, yes, Vista. Is this a problem?

dburdick, here is the screenshot I meant to post. The left hand Victoria is imported without specifying Poser shader the right hand is with Poser shader.  You can also see the display problem I mentioned.

As for the rest of the discussion, you have all lost me a bit I am afraid :)

Cheers

AHUDSON, Well I can see  clearly what the problem is with your Poser import using the Vue shader.  The diffuse color of your Poser skin is not set to white.  It's set to a shade of light blue or light green.  I've see this before when some Poser texture makers (e.g. Genesis, 3D Celebrity) use a slightly off-white color in the diffuse channel becuase they may also be using the alternate diffuse channel.  The problem isn't Vue, the problem is Poser, or more accurately the way the nodes were set up in Poser.  You can fix this by selecting the entire character and changing the color correction back to white in Vue, or goinf back into Poser and setting the diffuse color in each material to white (as it should be).

ahudson - As you said, Vue only gives an approximation of the Poser shader trough the PoserShaderTree. I mean that it's the Poser nodes TROUGH Vue eyes. It could NOT be the same, 'cause Vue is Vue, and Poser is Poser (i know, it looks silly, is'nt it? ;) And i agree with David, it seems to be the diffuse color the problem. Have a try with that.

edit:
It could be useful for you to download these shader Agiel posted some time ago. Agiel Material Experiments.

Just another question:

I am just not able to figure out why transparence map are badly converted by Vue trough the Poser Shader Tree. Have you noticed that? It's a pity, because this technique could grandly improve hair look too.

I load the attached pose into Poser (note hair and cloak poses). Save. Load into Vue... (see next post for that picture.. this forum wont let me attach more than one file to a post).

Note cloak position. Same file. Cloak just hangs. None of the morphs take effect in Vue.

Oh, and also, when the figure has the hair Vue CPU use sits at 50-80% while doing nothing. Remove the haire and reimport and Vue sits idle... Sorry guys Vue is awful! really awful. Does the same in a Windows XP machine too.

:((

I have never asked for my money back on a piece of software yet, I am getting close with this one!

Cheers

Quote - Just another question:

I am just not able to figure out why transparence map are badly converted by Vue trough the Poser Shader Tree. Have you noticed that? It's a pity, because this technique could grandly improve hair look too.

Wow Vince.  Very useful comparison.  I am already using your Hybrid technique for using the Poser Shader to render the clothes and Vue to render the skin.  It works beautifuly so far and is a huge time saver.

On the transmap issue, maybe try using superior render mode.  I sometimes have problems with jagged transmap edges but superior rendering usually fixes this.

ahudson: i'm glad you brought this up about the hair, there are a number of hair objects that don't import into Vue properly and I have ahd similar issues with poses in poser not transferring correctly to Vue.
You need to raise this on a ticket at e-on, you really do!

That almost looks like what happens when I import either the wrong frame from an animation or not enough of it when I'm using dynamic cloth but I don't believe that cloak is dynamic so I have no idea why that's happening.  I'll have to do a few experiments when I get a minute and see what's what. 

I don't usually import the poser shader tree - there's only one figure I've needed to do that on 'cos the diffuse colour of the skin was a sort of light greenish colour and I couldn't be bothered to reset it in Vue.  That being said, I often use SkinVue on poser figures so that changes the texture considerably anyway

Aha! I sussed it! Poser writes two files. I believe one of them is the morph info. If you go into Edit/General preferences/Misc (in poser) and UN-check "Use external binary morph targets"  it writes everything to one file. If you import that into Vue... all is sweetness and light. Whooo Hooo! The cloak looks fine - same as in poser.

Why does it have that option of writing one or two files? Anyone know?

Oh! wow, yes you never ever use those external binary morphs, more trouble than their worth, hadn't realized you were using those!! [LOL].

oh boy yes.  External binary morphs are the spawn of the devil !!
Glad you have that bit figured out :)