Bryce 6.1 has to be the biggest piece of crap I have ever seen ! Anybody have any ideas when (if ever) Daz plans to fix all of the glaring bugs that prevent it from being even a third-rate piece of software ???? Like the one where your render passes finish (on normal setting) and the anti-aliasing pass sits at 0% for 8 and 1 half hours  without moving an inch ! I might try one more image with 6.1, but I doubt it. Stick a fork in me,.........coz I'm done ! I'll be moving permanently to C4D soon.

DO you already own c4d or is it what you've tried and fancy?

I find myself using bryce less and less and blender more and more......

I often check back on my open ticket in bug tracker and the last time anyone looked at my ticket was back in April and no updates or comments since.

The ticket is for the Material Lab: dragging the Time Scrubber along the timeline wont work in 6.1 so if you try to animate water it wont work.

You know with all due respect, I keep hearing about how people are having problems with B6.1, but I've yet to encounter any of  them. Bryce plods along on my machine and does what I ask it too. The only time I do have a prob is when I try to import invalid formats like some of those created in Lightwave or Bryce slowing up due to using high rez screen settings like those in the wireframe modes.

I have to ask my self what the hell are you guys doing?

The only complaint I have with Bryce 6.1these days is the fact that it won't save when a certain amount of virtual memory has been used up but I view that as my fault in pushing my system too far.

If it hurts to think about switching to C4D and the money that will cost ya to upgrade, perhaps you might consider Carrara. Still owned by DAZ, but oh so sweet. Similar user interface, because of its common origins with Poser and Bryce and Canoma at MetaCreations (aka Mega-Cremations)

I agree with staigermanus, anyone thinking of switching from Bryce, try Carrara.

I already have C4D and have a couple of images in the C4D gallery. It's a steep learning curve but it doesn't crash at all. I'm just very frustrated with B6.1.

I've experienced the anti-aliasing issue standing still for hours. I think I could have submitted my re-rendered lantern render for the old stuff challenge if it would've gotten past the 81% in AA, but that took a day just to make it to 82% on my second dual core. Since then I moved the image to my old machine (single core) and it did increment some more a bit quicker.

It helps to have more than one machine. Even with Bryce 5, which for me doesn't like to import AutoCAD files (like what is outputted from Elefont) 90% of the time, unless I import from one of my laptops.

But all in all I don't have such problems a lot have mentioned. I don't import anything using D/S; what animation I do I don't use 6.1 for anyway (i like toggling to fullscreen using the [ctrl] + [tab] keys which 6.1 doesn't do).

But one thing, Bryce 7 better be worth it. I'm hoping the silence from DAZ is b/c it's fixed in 7. I got more thoughts on this.

Right now I'm rendering a scene on my render farm and it has been sitting at 85% for over a week!!!!!

Which I'm sure is the Anti-Aliasing.

I seem to experience the AA issue more when I have volumetrics involed. Or image based textures.

Yea, I'd try Carrara if they put a genuine Bryce interface on it.  As for Blender, Lightwave, XSI, C4D, and several others which I've used, they are cumbersome, overcomplicated, unfriendly and frustrating to use as  final scene renderers.  But that's just me... I can't stand something that's unnecessarily complex.  My motto is NO MATTER WHAT AWESOME POWER YOU HAVE IT CAN ALWAYS BE APPLIED WITH SIMPLICITY.  I think most smart programmers are totally stupid when it comes to human interface.

Smart programmers should consult an artist for the gui.

Carrara's GUI is awful!!!:blink:
It's been a major drawback, the only really major one, for me using it.
It's got some other problems for me, but does ok all around.
I guess everyone has different ideas about how a GUI should be.

My motto has always been "let the computer do the work".

"I guess everyone has different ideas about how a GUI should be."

I hear that often, and it's true in a way.  Also, people will get used to any interface that they have to get used to.  
But take a look at the automobile interface. I can hop into any car in the whole world and drive it within a matter of minutes... whether it's a 40 hp econocar or a 500 hp Ferrari.... why?  because the car interface has been perfected and adopted universally.  With 3D software, it's  like buying a new car and finding the steering wheel in the back seat and the brake on the ceiling.  There is such a thing as a GOOD and BAD interface.

Car only has couple controls.
3d softwares can have hundreds or even thousands. Lots of different ways to organize the controls.

a gui can take many forms, but I think bryce has one of the more intuitive a best gui in the market.  other more "fat" programs cannot say the same.

we need to thank  MetaCreations for that interface,  the first time I saw an interface that was neat was Kai's Power Tools for Photoshop...I cant remember which came first Bryce or Kai's Power tools but they had the same feel to them and very out there and interesting interface for its time and look at how many years has passed and the interface hasnt realy aged.

I like Max-  Car analogy, look at how many sizes shapes cars come in, but they all have wheels, engine, stereo, seats, gas, break etc..etc..  pretty much in the same place.

But with software although the quality varies, getting there is done differently with every software, the only thing that is standard is the File menu at the top.

I like the car analogy too, but I very much agree with dvlenk6. Cars are pretty much standard, but that's only one kind of vehicle. There's others out there.

When it comes to comparing Bryce's GUI, I think it's a great benefit not to have a complex UI. The power to drill in and mess about with raw numbers is there, just have to know which dot or bead or square to click, double click, alt + click to do.

What was said earlier, I have a feeling DAZ is all silent about these glaring Bryce bugs because they probably are really focused on Bryce 7. My feeling is these bugs are being addressed in Br7. At least I hope so. I'm an optimist.

The other thought, if DAZ doesn't fix these bugs, nor address them in Br7, then if I were to look at other software, why would I look at another DAZ app? If they don't keep the user base for Bryce happy, ppl will only get interested in 3D art through free Br5/5.5 and low cost Br6.1, then move on to other competing apps. And if current customers aren't happy with one DAZ product, especially in giving feedback, the arrogant attitude will haunt their other apps. If I were to look at other software, why would I look at another DAZ product if they basically ignored my bug reports, ignored complaints, etc? Maybe they do the same for the other product. I wouldn't look to moving to another DAZ app then. That's the logic in my mind.

Something I remember in Marketing classes, we were told it's easy to get a customer in the door the first time. The challenge is getting them to come back. To me it seems lots of places are focused on making the first sale instead of keeping customers happy so they return and make more sales.

But for the record, I am optimistic about Br7. Will probably buy it, install it, and I hope it's what we all want from Bryce. Else I'll be one upset cardinal ;-)

I said it in a few other posts, that if 6.1 didn't improve greatly on Bryce that it would be used ALOT less in my tools. Well,... it was hit or miss with Bryce 6.1 on my system as well, and thats not good enough. A 3D program NEEDS to be more stable, at least for professional or prolonged use it does(and I waited a looong time too). I could list bugs I've found, but I thought it easier to say I will be using it less.

Im guessing, that the people that aren't having any problems are not pushing all/some of the advanced features Bryce has, or their working around the bugs. Its just to old of code/GUI for me now, however I still use it for making my terrains and other backdrops and enjoy what does work in Bryce just fine. It is not a bad 3D app at all, and I will always have it in my tools, plus support it as a very easy app to work with. It just needs/must have, an overhaul before I put anymore money into it.

Bryce could definitely benefit from some modern updating, but it need not be any more complex.  Let's say, for example, you want to add an ultra advanced realistic physics option:  you can simply assign a material (stone, rubber, silk, water, dough, etc) to every object, then turn on the scene gravity, and with a single click everything should bounce, break, squash or spill just like it's supposed to.  Simple and clean; all you'd need is one extra option in the object property box and one in the scene render options.  Let the computer do all the dogwork... it can do 50 Billion calculations a second.

I ran a couple of images recently with layered volumetric clouds in Bryce 6.1. It took me about 4 hours for a 2400x1230 output on my quad. Didn't notice any pause at AA stage. 

Sackrat, don't toss your Bryce when you dig into C4D. It still makes a great support tool for C4D projects - I'm still using it!

Quote - ...don't toss your Bryce when you dig into C4D. It still makes a great support tool for C4D projects...

I'd second that for any other application. I read about Bryce sky domes and terrains being used all over. I personally use it as a texture generator as well.

For gravity:
That is a good example of why interfaces might be a lot different. You can have a check box for standard Earth gravity and it can work. Just don't do any renders of moon scenes, or anywhere in the universe that might have different G  force. For that, you need a strength and a directional setting too.
Where does that go?
Is it another panel? Is it part of the gravity panel? Menu?
Slider? numeric input?
That is where the GUIs diverge, when you begin to add more and more features.
Increasing User configurability of GUIs (and hotkey combos) seems to be the best route to me.

Simple: pop open the scene render box, click gravity ON, select gravity strength and direction, and VOILA... its done! 

The gravity feature. That is a neat idea.

Quote - Bryce 6.1 has to be the biggest piece of crap I have ever seen ! Anybody have any ideas when (if ever) Daz plans to fix all of the glaring bugs that prevent it from being even a third-rate piece of software ???? Like the one where your render passes finish (on normal setting) and the anti-aliasing pass sits at 0% for 8 and 1 half hours  without moving an inch ! I might try one more image with 6.1, but I doubt it. Stick a fork in me,.........coz I'm done ! I'll be moving permanently to C4D soon.

I cant say I really like Bryce - Ive only worked with it since Bryce 5 - but I have to say Bryce 6 sucks less than Bryce 5 ;-)  Ive enjoyed using Bryce 6 but it doesnt stack up compared with the competition.

I do not see a comparision between Bryce and C4D. To me, the nearest comparision is Vue Esprit. Ive been using Vue for quite some time now and its really an excellent program. I havent upgraded yet to Vue 6 (I use Vue 5 Infinite) - Im extremely satisfied with what I can do with Vue 5.

"I do not see a comparision between Bryce and C4D"

That's mostly true, I agree.   However think about this... theoretically the best features of C4D could be added to Bryce, but in a clean, user friendly interface.   Maybe in year 2107 there will only be one 3D program that everyone uses for all 3D work.... SuperBryce.

I on the other hand would like to see certain features from bryce migrated to C4D (grin).

I haven't played with C4D since a few years ago, is it still as strange as it used to be?  I've been using XSI lately, but only to build models... it's incredibly powerful;  but after more than a year  I still haven't got a clue how to make fog, or copy and save textures, or just render a scene without pulling my hair out.   Its like a Ferrari but you can't find the steering wheel.  But I'm sure that after 20 more years I'll figure it all out.  (funny, now that I think of it... when I first got Bryce it took me just 1 day to become productive with it)

Quote - Bryce could definitely benefit from some modern updating, but it need not be any more complex.  Let's say, for example, you want to add an ultra advanced realistic physics option:  you can simply assign a material (stone, rubber, silk, water, dough, etc) to every object, then turn on the scene gravity, and with a single click everything should bounce, break, squash or spill just like it's supposed to.  Simple and clean; all you'd need is one extra option in the object property box and one in the scene render options.  Let the computer do all the dogwork... it can do 50 Billion calculations a second.

Do you have any idea how many time it takes to only let a computersimulation bend a object accurate? And how many polygons are needed to get a realistic result? The material kwowledge needed (young's modulus,  density, poisson's ratio)?  A profesional software we used at school (comsol multiphysics) can simulate bending a copper bar with only gravity in 20 sec. That only one simple poly with copper. The more flexible the material, the longer the simulation needs. Liquids are cpu-killers, I did a project with a slusing tank (8x8x8 cm) and takes a night to calculate. Breaking is even harder, beceause the material can bend first, and must have a critical breaking point. 
COMSOL can do this things, but you must say manuel where a mesh have contact with someting, otherwise it drops to the floor. It is a nightmare to work with, but it can do almost anything if you know your materials. ( The only thing it can't do is raytraycing, what bryce works with LOL)

So, in my oppinion, it thakes serval years before this kinf of physics will be emmbeded in any grapical software, becauce the cpu's aren't fast enough to simulate it all.

Quote - So, in my oppinion, it thakes serval years before this kinf of physics will be emmbeded in any grapical software, becauce the cpu's aren't fast enough to simulate it all.

I'm not a physicist.
How does HAVOC do with physics in CG sims?
How about PhysX by Ageia?
Are they very accurate from a real world physics point of view?

@ boekenwuurm: Hrm, if ya'll are talking about accurate simulations of material stresses and behavior, the more accurate the simulation the longer it'll take. Solidworks uses COSMOS to generate FEA (finite element analysis) to show the effects of stress on a structure. Some variables are like.. the thickness of the materials, the type of materials, where the focus of the force being placed on the structure is located, etc. Of course Solidworks also takes into consideration the welding too. There's a lot that goes in to make something accurate.

To render one FEA, the thing takes hours. The more complex the structure the more hours, even days.

Of course we're all used to waiting for hours with Bryce.....    :-)

Games already have physics simulation... and it's REAL TIME!  And I'm not saying it has to be absolutely accurate... just accurate enough to look decent.  The accuracy can always be improved as we get faster and faster processors.  A good start would be as simple as being able to detect surface collisions( so that a hand doesn't poke through a solid wall).

Surface Collision Detection, for Bryce7.... ooooh, nice thought!

I think my main difficulties with C4D stem directly from the Bryce GUI, remembering that C4D works differently takes more consious thought than I seem capable of when going to C4D after working in Bryce for some time.  And of course the ease with which I can work in Wings3D's UI doesn't help either...

This also causes problems going from Wings to Bryce, I'm always clicking in the work area in Bryce and then left wondering why the view doesn't rotate when I move the mouse... duh!

XSI can use the PhysX card from ageia to accelerate it's physics engine - when you see it in action it's awesome

Quote - XSI can use the PhysX card from ageia to accelerate it's physics engine - when you see it in action it's awesome

I knew Max and Maya both had that. Didn't know XSI did too.

I didn't know Max and Maya had it - XSI is the only one I've seen!

My only real complaint with Bryce 6 is that it doesn't seem to save scenes for me. I save some complex scene, when I go back and open the document I created, it's the default scene. Very, [i]very[/i] annoying.

su_liam - are you using a Mac?

I liked xsi too found it easy to work with wel the cost is a bit too steep for me so I now concentrate on blender those animation tools are great.

@ FranOnTheEdge: The scene rotation via the mouse is something I've already posted to DAZ about. I'm spoiled how Solidworks makes use of the mouse and mouse wheel to navigate/zoom/rotate. It's the simplest CAD package I've ever used, and I've used several, beginning with AutoCAD since version 3. The Solidworks style is similar to the CB Modeler Pro.. not identical, but similar. Wings was similar when I tested it out, but Solidworks was still more easy to use. I really think the solidworks corporation ppl really mustive spent a lot of time in Human to computer interface (HCI) research or something when doing their GUI.

But anyway, I had brought that up to DAZ and I hope we'll see something. Personally I doubt it though because, and I'm not a Mac person, so I'm not sure how accurate I can say this, but I don't think the mouse wheel is a prominant/common feature for the Mac... So probably anything to do with the mouse wheel might not be implimented. But still, dragging the mouse around for navigation could be done.

Quote - su_liam - are you using a Mac?

Yes, I am. And I have nothing to do with the intemperate language of the thread title. It just seemed like an appropriate place to post.

Quote - @ FranOnTheEdge: The scene rotation via the mouse is something I've already posted to DAZ about. I'm spoiled how Solidworks makes use of the mouse and mouse wheel to navigate/zoom/rotate. It's the simplest CAD package I've ever used, and I've used several, beginning with AutoCAD since version 3. The Solidworks style is similar to the CB Modeler Pro.. not identical, but similar. Wings was similar when I tested it out, but Solidworks was still more easy to use. I really think the solidworks corporation ppl really mustive spent a lot of time in Human to computer interface (HCI) research or something when doing their GUI.

But anyway, I had brought that up to DAZ and I hope we'll see something. Personally I doubt it though because, and I'm not a Mac person, so I'm not sure how accurate I can say this, but I don't think the mouse wheel is a prominant/common feature for the Mac... So probably anything to do with the mouse wheel might not be implimented. But still, dragging the mouse around for navigation could be done.

I don't know. I have a four-button scroll mouse on one computer, and a three-button scroll mouse attached to my laptop. When I go back to Bryce after working with Wings3D for a while, I keep trying to rotate the camera with my mouse. Kind of frustrating that. I still want to slap Steve Jobs with a wet fish every time I see a one-button no-scroll mouse. The wizards at Cupertino do some great things, but that had to be drug-inspired.

Oh please! Bryce is a wonderful program, as long as you don't actually expect it to work as promised. The folks at DAZ are well aware of  all the problems, they do give you a 30-day money back guarantee -  so use it. (ie. return product, receive refund, and thank kindly for the prompt customer service) You could also express in detail your appreciation of the educational opportunity your purchase of the software has entailed. Hmm? If everyone expressed their feelings about the issues in an appropriate manner to DAZ (-$$$$) then the next release would be much better! I've been involved in software testing for a number of years and the solution to most problems with a company is to be polite, firm, and TAKE YOUR MONEY OUT OF THEIR ACCOUNT. I have Bryce 5 and it's worth exactly what I paid for it so I didn't  jump on the Ver. 6 train.

su_liam - you need to add the .br6 extension when you save a Mac Bryce file or when you double click or drag 'n drop the file the default scene loads instead. D@M - OSXships with 3 buttom mouse drivers and I'd say 95% of all Mac CG users have one. Not having scroll wheel support in the Sky presets drives me nuts ;-)

Quote - When I go back to Bryce after working with Wings3D for a while, I keep trying to rotate the camera with my mouse. Kind of frustrating that.

Exactly!!!! 

@Dan Whiteside - Seems to work. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Lately I've been using the free Bryce 5.5 I'd downloaded. It's nice to get some use out of the version I paid almost $40.00 for. I should have have looked at this bank of brilliance earlier. :)