I bought more than 100 items in this store and I am not counting all other stores. I found that items are rising for cost too fast. Textures that I start to pay for Michael and Vicky at about $10 to $12 are now $15 to $20. Poses went from $8 to $12 are now $12 to $17. This is a 30% to 50% increase. ETC>>>>>>> I think that I will relaxe my credit card. What do you think?

I agree greed

maybe the success of poserworld is making some people think they can shakedown consumers for every last penny.....

also looks like this message was moved and deleted from the poser forum, Guess they dont ant anyone starting a fuss over pricing.

Moved, not deleted.

Greed? It could well be. I must confess I don't tend to buy from the store here or elsewhere because much of what I see in the stores are things that not so long ago would have been freely given. Poses especially have traditionally been freely given. I think to be honest that there is more than one way of looking at this. There are people out there who see a store as way to make a fast buck and will sell stuff just because. Then there are others who are doing this for a living and must sell stuff in order to make ends meet, and those who sell things because they spent time on it and want something back yet still give out quality items free. What bothers me the most is those who post "free" items that are only additions to sale items. That's not free in my opinion, that's an upgrade. I can see some marketing value from this though where people look at the "freebie" addon, then go look at the original item and maybe buy it. I agree that some things for sale are overpriced and the prices are climbing faster than makes sense from an economical point of view. But, that comment detracts from those who create original items that have a lot of work in them. Natalia and SuperModel Vickie spring to mind here. Both are out of the price range I'd pay for something like that, but there is obviously a lot of work put in by the authors and I dare say they are value for money. In the end though people will charge what the market can bear. If the items don't sell the price gets reduced. I can't say that my refusal to purchase items is because I'm protesting at the cost or because they're items that last year would have been free. It's economics for me. If I can't afford it I won't buy it. If I can afford it I'll look around for something better or slightly cheaper/free first or try and make it myself. I steadfastedly refuse to buy "characters" I don't see the point to be honest. The amount of "free" morph targets and the versatility of the items sold by DAZ more than answers my need for characterisation. Same as I won't buy morphs or poses. Schlabber gives away thousands of poses all of which can be used as a base for other poses. Traveller gives away some of the best morphs around so if I need something that doesn't fit the current morph stock I know I'll find something on MorphWorld that will do the trick and won't cost me more than a few minutes on the net. Clothing is another matter. There just isn't enough clothing for Mike, and what's available for Vickie isn't versatile enough for some of the things that I want to do. However, the problem I find here is that there is a lot of "glamour" clothing available, but almost no "functional" clothing. This might suit many artists who produce "glamour" images but it fails by miles to meet my requirements. Did I purchase a subscription to Poserworld? Well yes, primarily because I know the clothing Steve produces will mostly fit the need I have for stock items as opposed to catwalk specials. :) As for the success of Poserworld making other people see an opportunity for a shakedown. I'm kinda hoping that the reverse will actually be true. Steve models primarily for Posette and Dork. But he does and will produce items for Vickie and Mike. For the cost of one item, you get a lot more from Pworld. For example, this month there has been somthing like 9 items of clothing. One for Mike and the rest for P4 M/F. If that sort of ratio continues then logically Pworld will grow with more people going there to get value rather than spending the money on a single item. The marketplace pretty much looks after itself in the long run though. People won't pay for something if they don't see that it's worth the price. The great thing about "people" as a group is that they vote with their pockets. If they don't wanna pay, they won't. It's like property. When sales are good the price of houses goes up. When people get sick of the prices they stop buying, sales drop and prices fall. Sooner or later the store prices will peak and the prices will drop as the buyers step back and start analysing "value". One thing that has amused me is the price of props in certain areas of the net. I can buy a good model of a motorcycle, some excellent cars, architecture and a whole pile of other stuff for between 10 and 15 dollars an item on Turbo Squid, there's no way on this planet I'll pay more if I know I can get it somewhere else for less. Like any market. Shop around, you'd be surprised at the variation in pricing. I've probably said more than I should have, and I reckon this will grate with a few people, but I couldn't resist my two pence worth. Flames and hatred to be directed towards the very tall man with horns on his head, a forked tail and cloven hooves. Thanks.

Poserworld and BBay have taken care of most of my Poser/Model needs for the year but, sometimes there are other items I need that I would buy here. There are some products, however, I feel I got "shafted" on. (((Flames and hatred to be directed towards the very tall man with horns on his head, a forked tail and cloven hooves. Thanks.))) Questor, please...I resigned from that department a month ago. Just didn't pay enough.

LOL. Yes Doom, but as with anything when someone retires. There's always a replacement.

Sooner or later the store prices will peak and the prices will drop as the buyers step back and start analysing "value". I hope so! You give up everything but the clothes on your back to have a good computer and the bloody expensive software you Had To Have g, then you find you have to lay out even more for the toys you plug into the software! ack! That's why we should all learn to make our own toys...

I think some of the vendors are still going through a learning process on the pricing, some items are more mass-market and will do far better at a lower price, while others are more of a "specialty" item, and really should be priced higher. For example, with 20-20 hindsight, the bicycle I put up at DAZ was priced to low, it should have been $30, not $20, as while I still sell a couple a month the low price is really a super bargain for the few who need a bicycle in Poser. On the other hand my Hollywood Hair set made me (and I'm sure most who bought it) very happy with the price, as I would guess this has been DAZ's best selling brokered item ever, and I think the price is perfect. I'm trying to make SMV mass market too, so I'll be running specials on her along with the new clothing items, my idea is to get people hooked on her, so I can sell them the clothing! ;-)

my idea is to get people hooked on her, so I can sell them the clothing! ;-) if only you used your powers for good instead of evil... muwahahahaha. you genius. :P i'm gonna start playing with my freebie amapi, watch out world (yeah, next millenium.)

What's 'too much'? It's relative. Anything more than zero is 'too much' from my perspective. Course, the 'tards will now spring up to suggest that I must either be poor or 'just jealous'...right? How otherwise, they will think, could anyone object to the obvious logic of peddling our props, meshes and textures to each other? Uh,huh. Yep, makes perfect sense. If you're a talking monkey or a gibbering houseplant, it does, anyway. Idealism fades rapidly when it comes to grubbing money. And for most people, their idealism revolves around the money-grub. Grub it up. Purchase useless consumerism items that you don't need, and whose 'value' has been artificially inflated. The 'store' at this site reminds me of the 'sports card memorabilia' industry. Moon rocks make great paper weights.

Yes, we all do think; but I often question, sir, do you? You seem fond of putting words in the mouths of "the masses," how do you qualify? You've done nothing to warrant anyone putting stock in your opinions as anything other than the "sour grapes" ranting of someone with a bug perpetually up his a**. Even your attempts at "educated writing" fail to cover the trailer park quality of what you spew. Please, continue to presume to speak for "most people" as though you'd somehow earned the wisdom and stature to do so and sound like more than the very "gibbering monkey" you use as metaphor. It's sometimes amusing, and when it's not it's only tiresome and not really a problem at all. Perhaps the price of "getting a life" is also too high for someone such as you, eh? Cheers! Mark

{If you're a talking monkey } Essentially, according to Darwin, that is what we all are... I guess you're a silicon based life form then?

(((I must either be poor or 'just jealous'...right?))) No...just obnoxious and boring like the goddam energizer bunny. Predictable as well...any post where someone brings up a "contraversial" topic we can all leave it up to you to come storming in here, roar and defecate all over the thread like a rabid gorilla.

...wow! "Get a life" Impressive! You make that up just now? Must be representative of the 'creative type' of inhabitant here. What irritates you all is that you know I'm right. About everything. You know it down deep, but will never admit it. You know it privately, amongst yourselves, in emails, but never, NEVER right out in the open, will you confess to any such heretical thoughts. You'd much rather throw feces and banana peels, and defend the herd from interlopers. 'Boring' is your mantra. Dullness and conformity are the status quo that binds you all together. I'm done for now. Go back to grooming each other.

(((What irritates you all is that you know I'm right. About everything. You know it down deep, but will never admit it. You know it privately, amongst yourselves, in emails, but never, NEVER right out in the open, will you confess to any such heretical thoughts.))) LMFAO!!!!!!!!! Oooooooh boy, we got a live one in here!! ((('Boring' is your mantra. Dullness and conformity are the status quo that binds you all together.))) Well...if one person says "you're a duck" you can tell them they're nuts....when two people say "you're a duck" you can tell them they're nuts as well...when three or more people say "you're a duck" you had better check your ass for tail feathers. And again, thanks...you reacted just as I thought you would.

{What irritates you all is that you know I'm right. } Uh, not exactly. You make valid points then drag them out to irrational conclusions. Every time. Usually with a reasonable chain of logic between point A and point B, but Point B still comes across more as the ranting of a lunatic than anything else... {You'd much rather throw feces and banana peels, and defend the herd from interlopers. } Nah. Grenades are much more effective and you don't have to wash your hands after.

It not only gibbers, it does so on command. I knew it couldn't resist coming back for another negative-reinforcement-monkey-treat. Here y'go, little one, you can run along and play now. Pavlov was a god. Cheers! Mark

Expensive, cheap- it's all relative. Compared to traditional 3D model pricing even the most expensive of the Poser market items are dirt cheap. But if your standard is based on all the freebies then even the cheapest are too expensive. A thing is worth exactly what you are willing to pay- no more, no less. I think I would have a lot more sympathy for those who demand rock bottom pricing, even free, if I thought for one moment that they would each go to their employers and offer to put in their 40 hours a week for nothing or ,at the very least, minimum wage. But somehow I do not think their passion extends quite that far. Jim: hoping to hook people on SMV so they will buy clothing for her is a standard and effective marketing tool. But you're doing it the wrong way. All drug pushers know that the first hit should always be free. Providing you can remain the primary supplier of SMV clothing you should maintain your clothing prices but make SMV dirt cheap.

Anything more than zero is 'too much' from my perspective. Course, the 'tards will now spring up to suggest that I must either be poor or 'just jealous'...right? Not I, I see you have no pics in the gallery. So, I doubt you could even use the products, since I don't see any "creations". What irritates you all is that you know I'm right About what? Not buying store stuff because you don't know how to use them? 'Boring' is your mantra. Dullness and conformity are the status quo that binds you all together. Then, why bother to even try and hang out with us? Are you beyond, boring? You haven't made any damned sense at all today. Low on Ritalin? Pop...pop...pop.

the real artists throughout history whether they were painters or writers or debators or inventors etc. never shaped their self-image or altered their behavior by counting how many people thought their views and creations were proper or acceptible *as in the ducks referrence above. then again if one cared more about being accepted by the masses by all means they should ask eveyone they meet to help them look for their tail feathers.

What is mildly amusing is that AAlhazzred's (trolling) outburst above betrays his profound ignorance of anarcho-capitalism, a belief system he purports to follow. The only thing that could be more anarcho-capitalist than the Renderosity 'market place' would be if the vendors were selling their wares directly from their own personal ecommerce servers.

Jim, I've heard people say they really like the SMV hair & wings, yet they have no need for the SMV figure itself. I think if sold separately the hair could do as well or better than the Hollywood Hair. -Jeff

I think I would have a lot more sympathy for those who demand rock bottom pricing, even free, if I thought for one moment that they would each go to their employers and offer to put in their 40 hours a week for nothing or ,at the very least, minimum wage. But somehow I do not think their passion extends quite that far.<<<< Ahah, then I must be one of the few that would get your sympathy. I do a lot of work as a volunteer for a local care service that deals with the aged and homeless/disadvantage/handicapped young. So, much of my time /is/ offered free with no recompence other than my own selfish satisfaction at having helped some unfortunate. :) And I was well known during my employed years for spending many hours unpaid working overtime on projects that needed finishing, and on top of this I do stuff on the net for nothing. Which means the rest of my time when not sleeping or eating is given freely. Wow. I'm special. I'm one of those strange fruitcakes that pops out of the woodwork once in a while and fades away just as quickly. :)

I'm one of those strange fruitcakes that pops out of the woodwork once in a while I like it when...a little of my faith in humanity is restored...:) Thank you.

Questor, >Ahah, then I must be one of the few that would get your sympathy.... Wow. I'm special. I'm one of those strange fruitcakes that pops out of the woodwork once in a while and fades away just as quickly. :) < Perhaps a sardonic reply but yes, you are special. I too contribute both money and service frequently though not nearly as much as I could. Given your habit I'll also go out on a limb and guess that you do not whine about the cost of your hobbies but simply select your expenses wisely as dictated by preference and circumstance.

Why is anyone here even trying to feed the ego of alllll whatever with a response? His true history here on the 3d/poser forums is so old and tired it is unreal....The most effective way to get rid of someone like this is simply to ignore him and all of you here already know that...What I can't figure out is why anyone here even gives him the time of day by making a response to any post that he makes...You guys are making his life too easy...Of course I do understand that this thread is about pricing in the marketplace here but, since he decided to get in on it the whole thing goes down the drain...Nice to know that we allow one person to completely destroy a thread such as this...Everyone here should simply ignore him and then maybe he will get bored again and vanish as he has done in the past....BTW, I do have items for sale in the store here but I doubt Allll would ever be a customer since I don't even think he owns any software that this forum represents.....

Hmmphh... I just read Questor's previous post so it seems the limb I climbed out on was pretty safe...

Hi Kennect, I'm not here a lot. Who is alllll? I thought I was responding to nitreug, Jim and Questor. ps. I'm Jack V and owe you an email but lost most of my addresses in a system crash. Could you send me your address privately?

Hey JV, I actually owe you an email....Kennect

Dear Kennect....because it is Thursday, as opposed to Friday, and, he made himself open to be vented upon. I am tired, cranky, still a lil sick...My post to him/her felt good. I like it when....That happens.

Economics 101 Youre well fed You have adequate shelter Youre kids are doing alright' you have money you see something you want Now comes the balancing act is it worth the cash.... if not, wait or kiss it goodbye if so, buy it... America....love it or buy a piece of it... Scarab,-(God bless John Wayne, General Motors, and Bill Gates)

(((*as in the ducks referrence above. then again if one cared more about being accepted by the masses by all means they should ask eveyone they meet to help them look for their tail feathers.))) Frodo...this is not a flame. You misinterpreted the parable, it does not mean acceptance...it has nothing to do with acceptance...it is realizing something about yourself when most, or all persons (that don't even know each other personally) tell you the same thing, time and time again. In essence there is an obvious pattern, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

{Why is anyone here even trying to feed the ego of alllll whatever with a response?} AAlhazred. Taken from H.P. Lovecraft's "Mad Arab," whom Lovecraft (showing a profound lack of knowledge of Arabic names) fully named "Abdul Alhazred," which is, IIRC, actually a title, meaning "The Slave of Hazred." Our Aalhazred is a slave as well, but to his own somewhat warped view of reality... {Nice to know that we allow one person to completely destroy a thread such as this...} It happens on all boards. Though usually it takes two to tango. I can't count the number of times I've managed to work with someone else (more often than not RadArt) - unintentionally - to completely derail a thread... ;-) {I do have items for sale in the store here but I doubt Allll would ever be a customer since I don't even think he owns any software that this forum represents..... } From comments Hazred's Slave has made here, I BELIEVE he is a retired graphic arts professional who still likes to keep a hand in on the graphics market - while stirring S**T with the other one... He also seems to be someone who got on the internet when flames were about the only interesting content, and thinks that's the way it should be...

{Why is anyone here even trying to feed the ego of alllll whatever with a response?} Speaking for myself (though obviously the rest of the herd thinks the same ;-)), I'm not responding to feed his ego, I'm responding to have a laugh. This forum has always been at least 75% hullabaloo, and the likes of AAlhazzred are part of all that. What will horrify AAl the most is that it is fast becoming an inclusive hullabaloo; he's become one of the regular crowd; part of the community. Welcome, AAl. ;-) {Nice to know that we allow one person to completely destroy a thread such as this...} Nah, it's not destroyed; it just has dual focus points. Even AAlhazzred was trying to contribute to the 'on topic'. Of course, as usual, he was so desperately insecure about making his point, he had to prime a diversionary tactic with personal abuse; and prop up his ego by declaring up front that anyone who disagrees with him will do so due to having a (re)'tarded mentality. [...but I doubt Allll would ever be a customer since I don't even think he owns any software that this forum represents..... } You're probably right on the former, and probably wrong on the latter. Unless he grabbed someone else's (pretty nifty) image for this post: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12360&Form.ShowMessage=292450&Reply=293219#9 - he at least uses the software 'represented' here.

Hear, Hear!

{he at least uses the software 'represented' here.} Yes, I bet he does. In fact, I bet he has an enormous collection of expired and used-up Kleenex tissues under his bed PROVING he "uses" Poser.

"maybe the success of poserworld is making some people think they can shakedown consumers for every last penny..... " I'm not sure how to take that :o).......Steve

jval- Yep, I thought of doing that, it is the "give away the razors and make the money on the razorblades" theory, which can work well. But she does come with other stuff, usable stuff, except I seem to be about the only one who likes the texture maps. SMV actually got started because I was so unhappy with the newly hatched Vickie, she is a great all-around figure don't get me wrong, but the first time you open her all you can think of is wow, she is butt-ugly! After I started on SMV (she took over 3 months to do) A lot of the Vickie characters started showing up (in my mind, a character gets there from morphs, Vickie and SMV and Natalia and the Posette aren't characters), some of them look very good, but the funny thing is, when I buy them they never look as good as the renders the originators get! Maybe I'm not just very good at rendering, but I don't have any problems with SMV, who looks good from any angle, even with my not-the-best texture maps. Anyway, I decided to price her as what I thought she was worth- say $45 for the modifed figure, $20 for her hair (which I am going to sell seperatly in a updated form, JeffH), $25 for her lingerie, $10 for the maps, and $10 for the shoes not to mention $10 for the wings), total $120, only that was too much, so I sell her at $59.95! ;-) Incidently, I could have never afforded 3D Max if I didn't sell stuff, so SMV would have never been hatched if I gave away everything.

'Expired'? Does Kleenex have a 'best before' date? LOL

I also notice that we really do get a lot of "thread wander" in this forum - stay on topic people, fight thread wander! (sounds like PFO! - oh no, the thread poloce are coming!) Oh no! I've just done what I was trying to stamp out!

"I can't count the number of times I've managed to work with someone else (more often than not RadArt) - unintentionally - to completely derail a thread... ;-) " Hey! What were all the times you and I derailed threads, chopped liver? Now my feelings are hurt... ;] AlHaz did an image? Brb... [opens new window] Cool. He even did a pretty damn nice job at it too. Kudos.

doom dancer no flame taken. I agree with charliebrown that aalhazzred tends to take common sense examples to ultimate extremes. but your parable was in direct response to an accusation of conformity. in the context of that discussion it seems to me conformity is all about acceptance by a group of virtual strangers. realizing something about oneself is a nice thing. just as long as the artist stays true to the muse and does not conform to anyone else or anything beyond the law/TOS. spouses of course can sometimes be exempted. could it be that the rising energy costs are driving up the price of polygon production?

Jim Burton wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand my Hollywood Hair set made me (and I'm sure most who bought it) very happy with the price, as I would guess this has been DAZ's best selling brokered item ever, and I think the price is perfect. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< So why the hell aren't you doing some more then, yer git? ;-) Honestly, hair has to be one of the most popular and needed items out there. It's difficult to compete with Kozaburo and Yamato on the price/quality combination, but there's still loads of room in the 'market' for other creators who want to sell their stuff. Regarding your point on the pricing of the 'Hollywood Hair'. It is 'right' in that there's two styles included in the pack, along with a hat. But I'd have rather the wigs had been sold separately. I think that good hair items being sold for 12 - 15 dollars apiece would go like hot cakes. It's not just the inherent value for money of items which determines popularity, it's how many of them people can afford to buy in a month. If you 'wig makers' produced one hair item each per month of the quality of the those in 'Hollywood Hair', at 12 - 15 dollars (depending on complexity), the only thing that would stop me buying any of them would be if I didn't like a particular style. 12 - 15 dollars also gets around most of the 'fear/risk' aspects of purchases. I'll have a chance at something at that price, but will balk at blowing 30 dollars on something I'm not too sure about. I even hesitated for a while on the Hollywood Hair, since DAZ's pics don't do them justice. $9.95 for DAZ's own 'Slick Mod Hair' is $9.95 too much. I can see it is total pants in their pics. $12-15 for either of your 'Hollywood Hair' wigs would be spot on (I'd prefer $12, you might prefer $15 ;-)). $29.95 for 'Wonder Wedge', a set of morphs for a hair item I wasn't too impressed with to start off with, is too much of a risk for me. BTW, any amount of extras won't entice me to buy SMV. There's nothing wrong with her, of course, I'm just not attracted to the 'hot tart' look. I'm a Star Trek perve, and you're not allowed to sell that. ;-p~

Psst, MondoFrodo, don't mention TOS to AAlhazzred. He doesn't believe there should be any that apply to art.

I'm pretty much with PJF here... I'd buy brokered items at DAZ before I'd buy most Daz items, and the "Hollywood Hair" is at the top of my list. Hair, wether freestuff or sale is one of my most shopped for items, because I hate having all of my characters have the same hair style. The more versatility built into a hair item in the way of style/legth morphs and trans and textures maps, the more attractive an item it is to me. When I look at the prices of most of the things for sale for poser items, and I look at the cost on high end models, like the ViewPoint Datalabs stuff, I don't see the prices on these things as being too exorbitant.

I bought DAZ' Hollywood Hair, and I have to say that I wasn't too impressed with it. That's not to say that I felt "cheated" somehow, because I didn't. i just had to make a few more morphs of my own in order to "fix" it. ;)

Hey Mike, be nice or he won't make anymore ;-) (Ya never can tell with the amount of artist over-sensitivity I've seen around here lately.)

Oh! i want to correct what I said: I liked the Hollywoood Hair, I just didn't "love" it, so I made it to where I DO love it--- then again, there's no way in Hell I could make something like that. I would still buy the Hollywood Hair, if I had it to do over again, even knowing about it in advance. :)

I hope you can see it in this shot: Like most hair, Jim's benefits greatly from application of that 'pseudo-nurbs' thingie that Mobius used on his hi-res figures. http://www.pfulford.dircon.co.uk/images/holhair.jpg - 64kb Unfortunately, although the plugin is free, it's for 3DStudioMax, which definitely isn't. My access to it is very infrequent these days. Be handy if one of the programming wizzos could write a standalone utility to do this trick for Poser OBJs. I know so little about programming that I don't even know if that's possible.