OK, so after all the "heretic" comments, I've been looking around at other packages to try and render with.
I've got Vue 5, which came as a bundle deal with Poser 6, but so far I've not got the hang of it.
I've downloaded the Demo of Cinema 4D, but that was pretty tough.
Also interested in ZBrush 3, but there's no demo for that.

Anyone know of any good packages that do a good render but yet have a user interface that does'nt require a degree?

Yup! It's called Bryce 6.1 !!!!

You know, I kinda knew that was coming LOL

Seriously though, I have 6.1, but how does it stack up against the other apps out there for rendering? It's most probable it can do a lot more than I've discovered, but what do the experts say?

Think this way: if you want high-quality renders then the learning curve is very/extremely steep, if you render for hobby then there's Bryce/Vue...I don't think there are similar lower-end render packages that can beat these two.
My only problem with Bryce is the lack of Global Illumination/Radiosity; this problem makes the renders a bit outdated...so I had to buy Vue5.

*My only problem with Bryce is the lack of Global Illumination/Radiosity; this problem makes the renders a bit outdated...so I had to buy Vue5.
*HDRI in B6.1 doesn't do it for you then?

Hi Bryster! I compared the B6 IBL results with simple GI renders in Vue; it's somehow not the same (shadows, shades etc still better in Vue); HDRI in Bryce is a great step forward but I still want GI. :-)

You can use a lightdome in Bryce with 160 lights, then you got pretty good GI but the shadows are a problem; I want the light dome GI effect without the dome using GI sliders in the Light Lab...hope DAZ can fix this in B7.   

I recommend checking out Carrara5 while you are exploring alternative renderers. Carrara has a similar interface to Bryce's ( both were originally designed by Kai Krause ) and has an excellent and fast renderer that offers GI, SS, and other advanced render options. It even has an excellent NPR renderer. Since Carrara is Bryce's cousin and is a part of the DAZ  family, I doubt that even His Eminence TheBryster could call you a heretic for using it. Check out the feature list for the soon to be released Carrara6 because it reportedly has even faster and better rendering among its other cool new features. 

*Since Carrara is Bryce's cousin and is a part of the DAZ  family, I doubt that even His Eminence TheBryster could call you a heretic for using it.
*Oh yes I could!

There are no other apps.

Okay, but seriously now... the other applications are pretty good, but I don't think any of them are as powerful as Bryce is with the ease-of-use that Bryce provides.

In terms of quality, there's a lot of artists here who can make Bryce sing. Combine Bryce with other tools.. such as Photoshop, a Wacom tablet, Painter, etc, and one can create some really stunning things.

But for me it comes down to time, and Bryce's ease-of-use means I can get up and rendering an idea quickly.

Attached Link: Wings3d

I went through the same thing a couple of years ago and I found Carrara very easy to pickup and its a good companion to Bryce.

Like D_A_M said, you add additional tools like Wacom Tablet and photoshop into the mix and you've some great tools to work with.

I second dvlenk6's recommendation of Wings as a modeler. I do this because it's my favorite modeler, and because it vexes TheBryster so.  I'll bet Analog-X is as anxious as I am to get hold of Carrara6. I still love Bryce and use it. As D_A_M says-"But for me it comes down to time, and Bryce's ease-of-use means I can get up and rendering an idea quickly." Bryce is still very hard to beat in that respect. I still use and prefer Bryces terrain editor for designing heightmaps for import into Carrara.

Thanks guys.
I had another play with vue last night, it has potential I think. Also had another go at the Cinema 4D demo. Got a bit further with it, but it's all time consuming figuring it out.
I'm going to see if there's a demo of Maya, but I'm going to check out Carrara too.

Thanks for the opinions
Chris

WOW! Went to look at Maya and you can download a PLE edition for free!

Just looked at Carrara. The system requirements are Windows with SP3. I did'nt know there was an SP3? Looks good though.

if you're using Wings 3d, there's a renderererer out there called Yafray, also free. There are several others, I just don't recall the names...

If you want only model, forget maya PLE and go for wings3d.

Bryce has a few things going for it.  The main one being the community.
No other graphics app that I've come across has such a friendly fan base.   You'll normally get sensible answers to any question within minutes.  Some of the "others" will have people who tell you to RTFM and will laugh at your stupidity and rip apart any WIP you post.

As for a learning curve.  If you know Bryce, then Carrara will seem very natural.   I'm not going to say progression, more a side step.  
But I do like Carrara since it's FAST(er than Bryce)

yafray is fun, but boy is it quirky.

I've downloaded the Carrara demo.
Will play later.
Again thanks for all the input.

If Bryce just got Ambient Occlusion, our renders would instantly look professional without the ridiculously long render times.

yes, a simple ambient occlusion like , for example Poser 6 has, will be great.

I don't claim to be an expert, but I am familiar with C4D (core, adv render and hair)(still exploring hair!)

Hrm, for a modeler I use Solidworks as my primary app, then Rhino 3D.

Quote - Hrm, for a modeler I use Solidworks as my primary app, then Rhino 3D.

You're 'the heretic cardinal' :lol:

That's all right, His Eminence, Cardinal TheBryster's regime farms out part of its functions to private contractors, and I recently won the bid for the "indulgences" franchise. I'm selling them in the MP and as a promotional kick-off I'd like to award Death_at_Midnight a get-out-of-TheBrysters's-easy-chair-free card. It's all binding and legal. Besides, I think TheBryster will "knuckle-under" and give official recognition and his blessings to Solidworks rather than lose one of his prized henchmen.;-)

Are people purchasing these indulgences allowed to cross the rainbow (sky preset) bridge and gain entry into Brycegard when their earthly time has passed?

Or sprout lattice wings and pass through the Boolean Gates, if you prefer.

Had a play with Carrara last night. All I did was put a sphere and a polygon next to each other, texture and render, but WOW! Very smart render.
It's interface is a lot like Vue, with a bit of Bryce thrown in. So far it's the one I've got on best with at first go, so I might plum for that one.

D&M: A word in your shell-like!   (Dusts off the comfy chair.)

This entire thread is now condemed as Heretical - you're ALL on the list! (And some of you twice)

Hrm, I had thought my use of Solidworks was common knowledge, as well as the reason why. To avoid repetition, please see the older posts in this forum concerning my coffee cups, coffee beans, dahlgren cannon, and Stratocaster guitar models. I'll let them, as well as the feedback comments, speak for me.

Personally i find 3dsmax to be very easy to learn on the modelling area. Much more intuitive then wings3d and such.
The Mental Ray renderer is very powerful and allows you to create some pretty neat results without much fiddling. However to really get to grips with the mental ray renderer, you would need a lot of trial and error, but thats the case with most professional engines. Still, its damn powerfull!

I also really really like the visual end results and incredible ease of use of Maxwell Render. Sadly it does come with render times that are way slower then bryce's.

well...wings 3d is still cheaper..;)

that it is indeed :) and not just by a little bit! but since maya was mentioned and ease of use seems to be important, im guessing theres some budget available if the results warrant the pricetag :-P

I think for out-of-the box ease of use and a great, simple rendering platform Bryce is impossible to beat, especially for the price!  It was my second 3D program (RayDream Studio 5 was my first, which is now Carrara) and taught me many of the basics of 3D, as well as let me "flex" artistically to some degree.

You can't really compare Bryce or Carrara to 3DS or Maya with any fairness.  Mental ray is the fastest, most versatile renderer on the market but comes with a hefty price tag and a preposterous learning curve.  Wings3D is a decent intro to modeling, but has nowhere near the power of 3DS, Maya, or the newer apps like Modo, Silo, and of course Rhino.

Which brings us to Modo.  It's an amazing modeler, has very powerful Sub-D and poly tools, and a brilliant, beautiful renderer.

http://www.luxology.com/whatismodo/

For the same price as Rhino, you get what I like to think of as the "Poly-version" of Rhino.  Only it's renderer and texture-mapping tools are quite a bit more intuitive and powerful.  I just thought I'd toss the idea of Modo into the mix, since nobody else had!

But mostly it depends on what you'll be using 3D for?  I don't think one would use Modo (for example) out of the box to do landscapes.  Bryce, Terragen, Vue, and Mojoworld can all handle that better.  On the top end, Maya and 3DS can do EVERYTHING that all of these other packages can do, combined, but with a hefty pricetag that hobbyists will be unlikely to pay.  For commercial use, of course, those pricetags aren't hefty at all.

So if you're making artwork, stick with Bryce or maybe jump up to Carrara?  If you're making money, those probably won't cut the mustard in today's competitive market, but I have yet to make "better" artwork in Maya than I used to in Bryce, by a longshot!

Just to bring you up to date.
I decided on Cinema 4D. I managed to order that along with Maxwell Render (not arrived yet), mostly based on the trial I had of the Demo, and then seeing what people had achieved in the gallery here with it. I plan to use Interposer with it (not bought yet), so we'll see what happens.

Thanks again for all the input, you guys gave me a lot of food for thought.

I love a lot of what I see in the C4D gallery, and the Maxwell renderer is probably unmatched for realism in rendering outdoor sunlit scenes, but I hope you can render on several cores and machines with it 'cause I hear that in many cases it renders more slowly than Bryce. This is the combination I've seen Rochr using most often lately though, so I think you will be happy with your output.

I really like 3ds max and have to agree I found it easy to learn. There are two downfalls to max, cost and it's booleans are rubbish.

I currently use Blender, but it's UI scares off half the people who look at it and you need three arms and a keyboard with 500 keys.

I thought c4d was great all round except for it's material handling which I hate ( I have version 6 so it may have improved!) good choice, can't wait to see what you do with it!

Quote - I love a lot of what I see in the C4D gallery, and the Maxwell renderer is probably unmatched for realism in rendering outdoor sunlit scenes, but I hope you can render on several cores and machines with it 'cause I hear that in many cases it renders more slowly than Bryce. This is the combination I've seen Rochr using most often lately though, so I think you will be happy with your output.

Yes, Maxwell will render on multiple cores. I've seen it using all 4 cores of a 4core machine so i know for sure it will handle at least 4 cores. Dont know the maxiumum amount of cores it can handle though.
Did i mention that Maxwell Materials and renders are incredibly simple to set up? only thing i find tricky is getting the camera focus right.

The painful truth is Bryce is THE BEST when it comes to ease of use!
Patience is what you need.
Trust me, Bryce 5 is a gift from the Gods to us.
Master it by understanding there is no other software that can give you the ease you require.
Learn to be patient then you'll rejoice.
Trust my words.
I once asked this question.

(-: (-: Wow! Fo3 speaks for me. :-)  :-)

I guess I don't really see fandom as a "good point" for using a piece of software?

"Master it by understanding there is no other software that can give you the ease you require."

One could say the same thing about XSI or Maya,
"Master it by understanding there are no other software out there as complex, feature-rich, or powerful."

"Patience is what you need."
Isn't this true of any software package?

I still think C4D is a wonderful middle-ground to head towards, Faraway.  Can't wait to see what you can do with it!

I have really been happy with my C4D. Looking forward to your tinkerings as well! The cinema4D forum here is a cool group too.

Quote - Did i mention that Maxwell Materials and renders are incredibly simple to set up?

 
Uhmmm...well, that´s not entirely true i´m afraid. The simplicity of setting up a scene is solely based on what type of scene you´re trying to render. 10-20 objects is one thing, but when you have a couple of thousand objects, which i consider a normal scene, Maxwell and its armada of unexplained error messages is a f'''''g nightmare, and you´ll most likely need 3-5 times the amount of time than normally to finish up the scene. 
If you´re going to use Maxwell, SAVE OFTEN and save separate backups, because anyone of those errors can corrupt the scene file.

I´m not even going into the materials part. That editor was designed by the village idiot and i really couldn´t hate it more. Probably why i always use C4D materials...

Love the lighting though. :)

wow really?? for the part where i doodled around it only crashed once, and i found it remarkably simple to set up good looking materials! have to admit i didnt use thousands of objects though..

A rule is that the more objects in a scene, the more unstable Mawell gets.
With my last scene, i ended up having to bake everything into 4 objects(all metal 1 object, all concrete 1 object etc) or Maxwell would simply crash without reason. Hence i basically terminated every possibility to further edit the objects.

As i said, working with a few objects usually works well, but if you´re going to do a larger scene, prepare yourself for problems.

Quote - A rule is that the more objects in a scene, the more unstable Mawell gets.
With my last scene, i ended up having to bake everything into 4 objects(all metal 1 object, all concrete 1 object etc) or Maxwell would simply crash without reason. Hence i basically terminated every possibility to further edit the objects.

As i said, working with a few objects usually works well, but if you´re going to do a larger scene, prepare yourself for problems.

wow.. thanx for the heads  up. defenitely going to take that into account when deciding on software usage for paid assignments on tight deadlines LOL

That´s probably a good idea. Even more if you need to do indoor scenes. :)

I´ve done some commissioned work with Maxwell, but those were untextured stuff where i did all the texturing in Photoshop. I´ve noticed that most of the problems comes with texturing, and you´ll have less issues with grey shaded stuff.

Although i understand that working that way doesn´t suit everyone.