Exploring Lighting techniques in Greypixel's Artwork

mask2 ( ) posted Sun, 15 July 2007 at 6:34 AM · edited Wed, 27 November 2024 at 1:42 PM

Hello,
I was quite struck by a couple of Greypixel's images: ~apple of my eye~ and **~Killing Me Softly~
**expecially for the use of lighting...

...so I started tampering with lights and tutorials to understand how to get that "bright & uniform" lighting effect... and I was not even close after a week of attemps :huh:

Now:
1- I know Greypixel is using DAZStudio, while I use P7
2- I am not a professional artist, but rather a "weekend Poser geek", so my knowledge of lighting is somehow limited to "practice and heuristics"

so I'd like to ask anyone willing to start a discussion on the topic: what is the basic technique to implement that kind of lighting?
I am not asking anyone to set the whole thing for me, just plese some hint to start going in the right direction :laugh:

Thank You!
Mario

PS
For Greypixel's Gallery following the link here below
www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php

pjz99 ( ) posted Sun, 15 July 2007 at 6:58 AM

Appears to be IBL (Image Based Lighting), but DAZ|Studio can't do IBL, so it's a very good fake-radiosity job. I'd suspect a large number of point lights combined with one or more directional (Infinite in Poser terms) lights, and probably quite a bit of skillful postwork, certainly a great deal of postwork on Killing Me Softly.

Getting that kind of look is easier in Poser IMO, because it can do IBL. Be aware that a disadvantage of IBL is that by itself, it tends to produce very weak shadows. You can also decently fake a look like that with just spotlights and one or more Infinite lights, and some attention to shadow settings for the various lights. That look is easier to achieve when you're not concerned about shadows, as in the typical white-background pinup design.

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mask2 ( ) posted Sun, 15 July 2007 at 7:08 AM

Thanks for the info!
I am starting to setup something right away..

One more question: would You suggest rendering with a white background or with a white flat wall behind the figure?

pjz99 ( ) posted Sun, 15 July 2007 at 7:12 AM · edited Sun, 15 July 2007 at 7:13 AM

Personally I've developed a strong dislike for the flat no-shadow background look that many gallery images here have, but that's only my personal preference. If you care to surf my gallery you can see some examples of how I like my lighting. Generally I only use spotlights, but sometimes, very occasionally these days, I'll use a low power Infinite light to fill any very dark shadows.

Recently I've stopped using Poser completely for rendering, and am in the learning curve for Cinema 4D, because it's just so much more powerful (as one would expect, at 15 times the price). All my gallery stuff right now though was rendered in Poser, and tends to have little or no postwork, mostly because I'm no good at postwork, but can give you some ideas about lighting. I tend to leave some notes about how a scene is lit also, if you find that useful.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=472534

^^ fair amount of nudity in many of my images, fyi.

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vincebagna ( ) posted Sun, 15 July 2007 at 8:24 AM

I just agree with all that has said pjz99.
Be carefull though to take on consideration that light tends to react enormously to the shaders you use for the skin and all, especially IBL lighting. I don't know if you work with Poser fast scatter, but it could make your lighting react differently than expected.

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Acadia ( ) posted Sun, 15 July 2007 at 9:34 AM

Mario, I don't know the answer to your question, but I would suggest going over to RDNA's Poser 6&7 forum and asking Olivier. There are a number of people who are very good with lights, but Olivier is the guru IMHO.

http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/forum/messages.php?forum_id=95

I put together a thread of bookmarks especially for lighting. There are some links in there that might help you.

http://market.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2662390

Here are a few links from there that are a must read for Poser lighting:

Olivier's Making of a pomo pic
Castle Poser Tutorials
Poser 6 IBL Ins and outs by Olivier
A little tutorial about lighting by Olivier
Tutorial: GEL MAPS by Olivier
How Light Probes are Laid Out
Advanced Image Based Lighting in Poser 6
Basic OpenGL Lighting

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

pjz99 ( ) posted Sun, 15 July 2007 at 9:39 AM

One very important fact about Poser and DAZ|Studio rendering: Light in renders does not do what you think it does. It does not bounce, it does not spread and backlight a given object. You can fake this with materials (difficult imo) or a low-power Infinite light (much easier, and less convincing) but except for IBL, things that don't have a light shining directly on them will be black, which tends to give Poser renders a very hard look. This is why Greypixel's images look so great (and you'll see similar great quality also in Vince's renders), because much effort has gone into getting away from that very unrealistic hard black shadowing.

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theSea ( ) posted Sun, 15 July 2007 at 12:39 PM

Please excuse me for sticking my nose in - I ususally post at DAZ and just lurk over here.

Quote - I was quite struck by a couple of Greypixel's images: ~apple of my eye~ and ~Killing Me Softly~
expecially for the use of lighting... ...so I started tampering with lights and tutorials to understand how to get that "bright & uniform" lighting effect... and I was not even close after a week of attemps :huh:

Now:
1- I know Greypixel is using DAZStudio, while I use P7
2- I am not a professional artist, but rather a "weekend Poser geek", so my knowledge of lighting is somehow limited to "practice and heuristics"

While I won't presume to speak for Greypixel.. I do know that he (? apologies - guessing on gender) has been using Dreamlight's lighting products for D|S. You can learn more about Light Dome Pro, Studio Light Pro and Mood Master at the DAZ forums ("Nuts and Bolts" forum) if you're so inclined. Note that these are D|S only and not free.

Others have posted some links to stuff online , but if you're willing to spend some money I'd also recommend "Digital Lighting & Rendering 2ndEd" by Jeremy Birn as a lighting reference. It's accessable, platform neutral and comprehensive.

Hopefully Greypixel will stop by and and speak to specific techniques.. I continue to be amazed at his work.

Quote - Appears to be IBL (Image Based Lighting), but DAZ|Studio can't do IBL

This is not strictly true. Pendragon released a free shader and light set that includes an environmental light that does IBL, Global AO and even radiosity, although the 3Delight engine's photon mapping featires are not enabled in D|S as of yet, so the radiosity is reeeeallly slow. But the AO and IBL work nicely. Those interested can find links in the "Developer Forum" over at DAZ. There are also nice skin, hair and velvet shaders for D|S included.

Poseworks PWSurface shader also does IBL very well. of course, you have to use it on every surface in the scene to get the desired results and render time will go up to match... but the results are worth it.

I certianly don't mean to turn this into a D|S vs Poser discussion, just correcting some misperception is all.

Returning now to lurk mode.

mask2 ( ) posted Sun, 15 July 2007 at 1:04 PM

Wow, thanks folks!
That's some important info to me :)

crucibelle ( ) posted Sun, 15 July 2007 at 5:03 PM

I've got a light set for Poser, by Danae (forget what it's called, but I got it here) that gives very similar results to these (the outdoor lights, specifically). I'm with pjz99, though - I don't really like the flat look, but it's just a personal preference.

crucibelle ( ) posted Sun, 15 July 2007 at 5:06 PM

One more thing, just wanted to make it clear that I love the light set by Danae and I do find use for the outdoor lights. Just didn't want anyone to think they are bad, because they're definitely not.

mask2 ( ) posted Mon, 16 July 2007 at 12:06 PM

Quote - I've got a light set for Poser, by Danae (forget what it's called, but I got it here)

I've just bought it!
...it's Radiance Pro...
Thanks for the hint !

Now to the lighting-autopsy table!

.GreyPixel. ( ) posted Tue, 25 September 2007 at 7:02 PM · edited Tue, 25 September 2007 at 7:07 PM

Thank you for your interest mask2. TheSea is quite right - I do use Light Dome Pro in my images and I find Daz|studio much better to use than Poser. Well the additional bonus is that it is free!!

For lighting in Poser though, Radiance Pro is a fantastic set of lights but my personal favourite at the moment is 4blueyes's IBL lights available at Daz3d. It is just fantastic, if I had poser, I would use that.

http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/shop/itemdetails/-/?item=5538

TheSea - LOL, thanks for the support, I am a girl by the way
Acadia - You are a master at posting those links kitty!!