Ok, so i am thinking of doing some minor upgrades to my computer.  Thing is i have really no idea what would speed up Photoshop (the main reason of doing this).

I know some people profess "get more memory"... but that is a stock answer.  So i suppose this is a two tiered question:

1. does anyone know how to discover what exactly might be the performance bottleneck of a computer? are there any software tools or even a set of guidelines i can get hold of to find out? (i have had a look but havent found anything promising yet)

and

1. anyone offer some advice?  (i'm hoping someone else in here wanted to speed up photoshop and has been in my postion)

I have a 2.8GHz dual core processor, 1 gig of ddr2 ram and a 128mb vid card (as far as i know)...

Attached Link: geekbench

a graphics card is for showing content on the screen. It can speed up redraw, but not performance.
normally, for photoshop 128 should be enough. One thing though: is it a separate card orpart of the mainboard? In the latter case, it eats from your RAM.

And this is from my point of view the weaker point: if you're on a windows system and running XP, you can go to a maximum of 2GB ram. To get more, you need a 64bit win version. Otoh: 1gig isn't much, even less if the graphics card is included, and win itself is already eating a good part of that ram. So unless you have a 64bit system etc I'd add one gig of ram. Under start>programs>accessories>system tools you find the system information. here you can see how much ram you have, and how much is free. Launch PS and then this should give you an idea of how much you have left for work.

I'd also check whether your graphics card is separate (agp or pcie) or not (shared memory). If it's separate and you find that screen redraw isn't fast enough, try to get a faster one. Normally dualcore processors work with pcie cards, so your card cannot be that old. But as said, this is only for screen redraw, not for performance.

The processor is more than ok for photoshop.

So I would say: add 1 gig of ram and you're more than fine for ps.

Some other things you can do to speed up PS is a/ to set swap files, meaning parts of HDD space it uses when there's not enough ram, to other partitions or a second hdd and b/ to give it about 65% of your ram. Not more, to avoid problems.

Well I have a rocket ship!  AMD64 x2 4.4GHz 4 gig of Crucial DDR2 PC2-8500/DDRII-1066 ram and a NVIDIA 512mb graphics card.  Photoshop and AutoCad 3D  runs fine at the same time.

Attached Link: Desktop or Laptop, Specs, The Ultimate Artists Computer

thinking of doing some minor upgrades to [his] computer

A similar question came up recently on the Art Theory Forum -- I have
provided the link to that message thread. 

Some points to keep in mind ...

1. a 'faster' graphics card does not help photoshop -- it would probably
   be helpful only for a game redraw. 

2. Tanchelyn spoke corectly by saying that the video card must have it's
   own refresh memory.  If it doesn't have it's own refresh memory not only
   does it use some of your RAM, more importantly, it also steals processing
   time by using as much as 10% of the memory bandwidth to do screen refresh. 

3. I also note that Tanchelyn said that XP has a memory limit of 2GBy --
   OTOH, I found this page on the Crucial web site that gave the XP limit as
   4GBy.  This is an important point that needs more research.  I'll check with
   one of my software suppliers. 

4. I feel that your HDD should be a RAID-1 array or a RAID-5 array as one
   of the best ways to safeguard your data -- this concept is discussed in the
   cited message thread in the Art Theory forum ... (of course, I wouldn't mind
   discussing it all again here grin). 

5. It bears repeating that if PS is going out to the swap file, an additional
   HDD would improve performance ... but having a RAID-0 array for the PS
   swap area would give an even greater improvement. 

HTH

--
Martin

Attached Link: Memory Support and Windows Operating Systems

I found that the microsoft site had a rather confusing answer to that
question.  (in fact, I wonder if the writer's native tongue is English --
either side of the pond!). 

As I understand it, windoze XP will support 4GBy RAM.  However, 2GBy
will be used by the kernel and the maximum that an application can have
allocated is also 2GBy. 

That having been said, there is a switch called "/3GB" in boot.ini -- but I
will need to read the microsoft page a few more  times to understand what
that switch really does. 

HTH

--
Martin

Attached Link: Memory Limits for Windows Releases

--
Martin

p.s. It's not that I don't understand (comprehend) the microsoft statement(s)
-- it is that the microsoft pages that I cited lack clarity in their discussion of
the issue. 

Thanks guys for the info.  I didnt know that graphics cards were only about the redraw aspect of using a computer, which is a bonus because i now know not to upgrade it (unless i want better graphics for my games - but as i generally tend to use the PC for strategy games that isnt an issue (that is what my xbox360 is for ). Also, it is not an integrated graphics card so i wont have any memory issues with that.

One further question came to mind: does it matter what type of RAM? - i was looking at that crucial site and there are numerous price ranges.  If i can only allocate 2gigs to a program and a fair amount is used by windows anyway... is it a good idea to use high grade RAM?  the crucial site has all of these RAM cards (probably not the technical word for it but you know what i mean) "DDR2 PC2-5300" or a  "DDR2 PC2-6400" spec on it, or this "DDR2- 533/667/800" number attached to it... is that basically how fast it can process the memory and is faster necesarily better when running a program like photoshop?

I am running a backup system anyway Martin - have a WD 500Gig MyBook :)

David - it's alright for some!!

Check the manual of your mainboard to see what type of ram it supports. You can get the fastest high grade RAM and pay through the nose for it, but I doubt you'll see much much difference in PS. You're likely to see more of an advantage there in games (i.e. slightly more fps). But it's really just marginal differences.

What does help is getting a set of matching RAM sticks in terms of stability and speed. Lots of brands offer 'matching stick' packages. In other words, replace the 1GB you have with all new 2GB memory. Seems like a waste, but at least it'll keep your memory sticks from fighting eachother :P and it's not like memory is all that expensive anymore (say $90 for 2GB).

Attached Link: 18004memory

does it matter what type of RAM?
memory and is faster ... better when running ... photoshop

The motherboard and processor (CPU) determine the correct memory
speed/timing.  You'll need to know the exact motherboard model number
and that will determine the correct memory. 

That having been said, you may have a choice on one memory timing
parameter ... 'CL' (it's how fast the memory responds).  You may see,
CL2, CL2.5, or CL3 -- although the smaller number is better (faster),
you should match the speed of the existing memory stick ... or replace
it by buying 2 identical sticks. 

When you know the motherboard manufacturer and model number, use
the Memory configurator on 18004memory web site. 

I am running a backup system anyway

In a sense, RAID is not a backup system -- a RAID array seamlessly
overcomes the failure of one drive in the array ... until you can replace
that drive. 

OTOH, a backup system (or an archiving system) stores extra copies
of your information offline from the PC so that the data can not be lost.  

RAID protects you from the risk of a HDD failure -- and provides a
performance boost in some configurations.  

A UPS protects you from a short power failure (3 to 5 minutes)

A standby generator by itself protects you from a longer power outage
... but not from the loss of power. 

A standby generator with a UPS protects you from short and long power
outages. 

A backup strategy protects you from the risk of fire, theft, accidental file
deletion, virus activity, mechanical damage, etc. ... but doesn't protect
your work in process. 

have a WD 500Gig MyBook

Actually, you should have 2 of those external drives -- you could put the
same backup set on each ... or use them on a rotating basis.  "Why?" you
say ... suppose something went wrong during the backup to a single drive,
you could loose everything.  OTOH, with 2 backup drives, you would still
have the alternate backup set.  Archiving to CD (or DVD) is a partial
solution to that point ... provided that you always take the time to make
the extra and identical copies. 

HTH but always remember that YMMV

--
Martin

Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Model Dell Inc. Dimension 5000
Motherboard Dell Inc. 0W5363
Processor Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
Processor ID GenuineIntel Family 15 Model 4 Stepping 1
Logical Processors 2
Physical Processors 1
Processor Frequency 2.99 GHz
L1 Instruction Cache 0.00 B
L1 Data Cache 16.0 KB
L2 Cache 1.00 MB
L3 Cache 0.00 B
Bus Frequency 800 MHz
Memory 1022 MB
Memory Type 400 MHz
SIMD 1

that is the readout from the GeekBench program... so i am assuming that the "Memory Type" of 400MHz means that i can only get 400MHz memory... or is that just the speed of the one installed and i can go up to the 800MHz of the Bus?

I am now in completely unknown territory with my computer knowledge...

The Crucial site says this:

Each memory slot can hold DDR2 PC2-4200,DDR2 PC2-6400,DDR2 PC2-5300 with a maximum of 1GB per slot.*

With regards to my Dimension 5000. So what does the 4200 - 5300 or 6400, mean? Are they to do with speed - i would probably want to get the fastest possible for my computer/motherboard, to stave off upgrading the system for longer.

Oh - and if i have 4 slots (and i know i have two 512's in there) can i just put in the new 1gig cards to make my system 3gig... or do they all have to be the same memory type?  (i know 2gig per program was mentioned, but if i can get it so windows runs off the 1gig pair, and photoshop of the two gigs, i get more space then )

Oh, and thanks for the help guys this is great

If I read the specs right in the net, your computer has PC3200 RAM. It shouldn't be a problem just adding 2GB, just get the same type. Getting faster memory is useless since the clock will be set to the slowest parts.

You can't assign the memory yourself, the OS does that for you.

ah ok - so if i just add a pc2-6400 (i'm guessing that is faster than pc-3200) then it would only work at the pc-3200 speed, unless i take out the two 512's and just run on the two new 2gigs? Meaning either fast 2 gigs or slow 3 gigs... no?

PC6400 = DDR2.
PC3200 = DDR

So no (unless that mobo supports both types of memory, which I doubt).  PC3200 is the fastest you can get in DDR memory. If you still have the manual of the computer/mobo it should list which types of  memory it supports.

18004memory.com says that your mtherboard takes ... 
PC2-3200/4200 DDR2 SDRAM DIMMs. Supports Dual Channel DDR.

On their site, those memory sticks cost about $50 t0 $60 per 1GBy plus shipping.

-- 
Martin

There are limits to how much memory your computer can use. If you are using the standard 32-bit edition of Windows then the theoretical limit is restricted to is 2 gigs, however realistically you are looking at around 1.6 gigs due to various overheads.

That 3GB switch is not difficult to achieve, but it's a trick. I DO0 NOT advise anyone to try it or use it, and I DO NOT take responsability if something goes wrong. You do it at you own risk!!

I do not think it works in home, only in XPpro.

Right click on My Computer
Select Properties
Click the Advanced tab
Click on 'settings' within the Startup and Recovery section
Click Edit
A notepad window will appear which looks something like this

[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)WINDOW S
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect

What you need to do is add the following line:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP More Memory" /fastdetect /3GB

The result of this is that next time you reboot, you will get a menu where you can choose a regular windows boot, or a special version which gives an extra gig of memory to applications. Don't just add the /3GB option to the existing line, because if it doesn't work then you won't be able to boot at all.

Sometimes it works, sometimes not. And getting out of it is something else. In the worst of cases it means a total new install. So before y§ou venture in this: BACK There are limits to how much memory your computer can use. If you are using the standard 32-bit edition of Windows then the theoretical limit C4D is restricted to is 2 gigs, however realistically you are looking at around 1.6 gigs due to various overheads. You can actually increase this to 3 gigs (2.6 practically) by adjusting a single setting:EVERYTHING UP!  Don't forget your e-mail and your favourites!!!

hrm - i think i'll just stick to the "take old memory out, put new memory in" method... probably less complications there - dont want to be messing around too much with boot.ini's :)

BTW - just for reference... is it just a case of opening it up, sticking new memory in place of the old; booting, and windows recognises the memory or do i need to do something software/OS side of things before i do that?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge guys, it would have taken me aaaages to find all the info to answer these questions.

Yep that will do it!   The boot sequence will come up just follow the on screen instructions  I spend most of the time with no side on my pc.  Always putting new bits in and pulling other bits out!

All you wanted to know about installing memory into your Dell Dimension 5000;

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim5000/en/sm/parts0.htm

It looks like you've already gotten lots of good technical advice. Let me just add that my system is very close to what you have. I had 1 GB of RAM, and a while ago I added two more. Believe me, it made a world of difference in PhotoShop. Also, because there is now so much less swapping to disk, my disk will last longer, too.

Go for it.
Dennis

I see that inshaala asked,

but if i can get it so windows runs off the 1gig pair, and photoshop of the
two gigs, i get more space then

A I understand the microsoft documents I cited earlier, you would need to
install 4 GBy in order to allow the application (e.g. Photoshop) to have
2GBy available. 

I see that gradient gave us a link on the Dell site,

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim5000/en/sm/parts0.htm

Which specifically says,

Your computer supports a maximum of 4 GB of memory when you use four
1-GB DIMMs. Current operating systems, such as Microsoft® Windows® XP,
can only use a maximum of 4 GB of address space

I checked one of my memory suppliers CoastMemory.com (AKA 18004memory.com) ... the memory configurator for a Dell Dimension 5000
specifically says (and they guarantee it) that the maximum expansion is
4GBy ... Dell Dimension 5000 expansion configuration

The price is $50 to $60 per memory stick.  (plus shipping ... about $40 for
2 day delivery).

If you can afford it, you should install 4GBy of the (faster) DIMM PC2-4200.

--
Martin

Hi guys. I just posted this text in another thread, but is completely relevant to this thread, cause it is exactly aiming at performence: speed, memory usage and prevent crashes. Two things i did to prevent software crashes (On XP) and have faster renderings:

1- Start -> Run -> type "msconfig" -> go to "Startup" tab, and uncheck all things you absolutely know that you don't need to startup when your windows starts. In doubt, leave it there (although it can be re-checked if you lack a functionality in some other software). Then, restart and open your software directly (poser, daz, carrara, bryce...) and 50% of the crashes are resolved.

2- Get the DownRezer poser utility (small software available here at renderosity), and use it to be able to put more people and clothing in a scene without charging your RAM.

So you're saying that photographers who do nudes have less problems with the memory of their computer? ;)

First thing I'd say is look at how your memory is allocated per program and which programs take priority when they are open.

Your specs look pretty good to me, I would suggest upgrading your graphics card to some thing that has a min of 385MB of memory, 128 used to be standard, but we all know what the computer world is like...

The first thing I did was 'reallocate' my memory and PS CS2 seems to be fine now.
Also it helps to close and reopen the program after editing about 20/30 photos as this clears the RAM and virtual mem of the PS 'stored' stuff. Plus I find rebooting my system at least every 3 days goes a long way to winning the battle.

I don't know what you're free space is like but it might be something as simple as having all of your pics stored on a External HDD and run PS on your internal HDD - hence more virtual memory. I read that in Pro Photographer mag, so I did it and it def helps as well...

My 2p that's probably only worth 1p...

Quote - 1- Start -> Run -> type "msconfig" -> go to "Startup" tab, and uncheck all things you absolutely know that you don't need to startup when your windows starts. In doubt, leave it there (although it can be re-checked if you lack a functionality in some other software). Then, restart and open your software directly (poser, daz, carrara, bryce...) and 50% of the crashes are resolved.

Thans for that, I totally forgot how to do it and am so happy I won't have every program on my PC opening at startup now!!!

This is a new question, having been reading what is said so far. I am far from a geek.

Running a Gidabyte motherboard with AMD64 chip, 32 bit XP.   

I haven't researched it in a while but  how improved is the 64 bit Windows?  Is it worth the upgrade at this time with stability etc. ironed out?  Just curious.       TomDart.

This is a new question, having been reading what is said so far. I am far from a geek.

Running a Gigabyte motherboard with AMD64 chip, 32 bit XP.   

I haven't researched it in a while but  how improved is the 64 bit Windows?  Is it worth the upgrade at this time with stability etc. ironed out?  Just curious.       TomDart.

I got the 2gig ram in the end btw... Has helped a bit definitely, but my main problem at the moment is the limited space on my main drive - just need to get my act together and tranfer / backup a lot of stuff to my externals rather than go out and take more photos ;)

Thanks for the help in this thread guys - much appreciated. :)

To answer Tom Darts question, I would say don't bother - there is less driver support etc for win64 platform and all your current software would have to be updated to 64bit versions too if you want to see a change in performance. 

Stability in 64bit windows is ok now, I use 64bit XP and 64bit server 2003 at work alongside 32bit, but I really can't see any reason to change unless you have a specific 64bit app you want to use.

Windoze really hasn't cracked into 64bit properly yet, and I have a feeling it won't for a while until microsoft get drivers sorted and push companies harder to provide 32 to 64 bit upgrade paths that are realistically priced.