Yea, I understand there are many people who learn these 3d programs mostly by hands-on experience, trial and error, and tutorials. However that was sort of the point of my initial description :-)
For people who either dont bother to delve into the theory to some extend, or who simply dont get their head around the theory as easily as they get their head around things by seeing them in action, it's really difficult to learn top-end few-thousand-dollar-price-tagged 3d applications in a relatively normal amount of time, or for them to reach a skill level in those applications that justifies the price tag.
There is cheaper, easier to learn, less technical software out there that will probably more then satisfy anyone who prefers not to get too technical.

Ray! Are you having a pop at me? I was a Marine(as in water not army) Engineer. I can do technical! :glare:

I have been a long time Bryce user, and would like to see Bryce continued to be upgraded and be a viable program for 3d in the future. Bryce has it's faults, just like any program does....none of them are perfect! But Bryce comes close. I use Bryce 5 on the Mac and it has always been incrediblely stable, except for a few operations that I have learned to stay away from....like when I am importing a Poser character into a scene and I get a message asking where a particular texture is. I tried to locate the asked for tex at first, but Bryce would always lock-up trying to bring it in during the process of importing the Poser character. Now I wait until the import is in the scene and apply the needed textures then. But this is a small workaround when you consider all the things that Bryce can do successfully. Bryce can be a very powerful 3d app....if you know how to harness that power, and are willing to work a little harder to get what you want. Bryce will deliver! One thing that I have marveled at is Bryces ability to work without a hich on both system 9 and system 10. System 10 is vastly different from system 9, and most apps have had to be updated when users have gone from 9 to 10. But not Bryce! The same version I bought when I was running system 9 works just fine now that I have upgraded to system 10. No matter what system I have running as the start-up system, Bryce doesn't seem to miss a beat. I say this because one app that I still use on a regular basis is Ray Dream Studio. It's an old 3d prog that I just can't seem to part with and unfortunately will only work with system 9 as the start-up system. Which means that I have to choose system 9 as the start-up system, reboot my computer, and then start-up RDS. This would be really inconvienent if after finishing with RDS, I had to go back to system 10, restart my computer again and then go to Bryce. But I don't as Bryce is multi-lingual so to speak. I only bring this up to illustrate how versatile and flexable Bryce is. One thing that I would like to see the people at DAZ do, is dump the tree lab. Get rid of all the useless code this lab takes up and devote the space to something that really works and produces something that will make Bryce more competible with other 3d progs like Vue and Carrara.

Quote - Ray! Are you having a pop at me? I was a Marine(as in water not army) Engineer. I can do technical! :glare:

er.. no.. :-/ all i did was point out that a $3000 app is most likely not going to be worth its money unless you're willing to get into some techy details.

For example try trial-and-error learning;

• a program with 3, 10 channel material shaders.
  Then compare it to trial-and-error learning;
• a program with multi-layer node-based  100+ shaders, 20 channels per shader + extensions for various render engines material system...

The simpler one will probably allow to learn it faster, give you better quality in less time, and only reach annoying limitations in exceptional cases.
The more complex one will probably take longer to learn, and longer to get any good results at all.

you have a point there Ray. the complexity in Bryce is there, just way down inside. you hit the options rather sooner in C4D.

Quote - Why is it that every popular 3D app out there is being updated and improved on a timely, regular basis except Bryce?

Programs like Vue and Carrara and modo and TrueSpace still have the same programmers who have been around since their version 1.0's almost.  So they know their own code and can update it easily.

But that doesn't ensure the program is all that great either.  Bryce 6.1 does better rendering than TrueSpace 7.5.  But if rendering isn't important to you, TrueSpace 7.5 is a way much better modeler than Bryce 6.1.

"    ..... But if rendering isn't important to you, TrueSpace 7.5 is a way much better modeler than Bryce 6.1."

At this point I don't even care about modeling in Bryce since I model all my meshes in another modeler.   I just want a fast, modern rendering/lighting engine and instancing.

Quote - I just want a fast, modern rendering/lighting engine and instancing.

I'm with you.

Hi, I'm new in this forum
I'm using Bryce 5.5  and really like it a lot
I only wish that when using Leo, that it wouldn't be just a rectangle that you can see

Ilo- At the bottom right of the Bryce interface is a cube gadget (right above the "+" ), click and hold your LMB on the gadget and select "Texture Shaded". This should display the image instead of the 2D rectangle.

Quote - I just want a fast, modern rendering/lighting engine and instancing.

Vue's engine does instancing and most basic modern lighting techniques :-) However, just like bryce, its not fast :-/

Call me crazy but i think unbiased renderers have the future in providing easy to use powerful rendering solutions... Once processing power catches up with the technology anyways. There are extremely interesting progresses being made. Too bad Maxwell Render for bryce seems to have been discontinued :-( Maybe we should start begging Fryrender to develop a bryce engine. The makers of Fryrender are well known for their tight bond with their client base. There's a real sense that they truely listen to users suggestions. Maybe if enough of us start asking for a bryce fryrender plugin, they'll actually make one! :-D

@ Rayraz

It struck me today the point I think you have been making.  I was fortunate to see Trans-Siberian Ochrestra last night.  What they have accomplished musically is the same as you have  pursued graphically. 

A person can pick up a musical instrument  take a couple lessons, practice and experiment then  perhaps play some respectable tunes.  But it is generally the person who has a deep rooted knowledge in music theory who can produce a beautiful, emotion provoking symphony of sounds.

The former individual may accomplish it eventually but it would be a lot harder road to travel.

Same goes for visual art.  (computer produced or not)

Thanks dan, I'm gonna try this

Quote - @ Rayraz

It struck me today the point I think you have been making.  I was fortunate to see Trans-Siberian Ochrestra last night.  What they have accomplished musically is the same as you have  pursued graphically. 

A person can pick up a musical instrument  take a couple lessons, practice and experiment then  perhaps play some respectable tunes.  But it is generally the person who has a deep rooted knowledge in music theory who can produce a beautiful, emotion provoking symphony of sounds.

The former individual may accomplish it eventually but it would be a lot harder road to travel.

Same goes for visual art.  (computer produced or not)

wow yea thats exactly it! u found the words i couldnt find! thanx dude!

And wow u saw the Trans Siberian Orchestra live???? I'm jealous! Which pieces did they play???

@Rayraz

I've seen them three times now.  They do the "Christmas Eve and Other Stories"  from start to finish including the narration found in the CD cover.  Then the second half of concert is a mix of all their other music.  It is hands down the most awesome production I have ever attended. They basically do the same show each year so they have the whole thing perfected. Rock and blues guitarist'; opera, rock, and blues voices; orchrestra string section;  world class percussion;  two classically trained  keyboard players,  etc... blended PERFECTLY.  I'll go again next year.

oooh ok then i think iv seen it on television before....

Quote - *"proper documentation manual to point out where the features are.."

Indeed that would really help a lot as I've spent a fair bit of time lost since coming back to the fold.. ...

Let's fix that...
see your IM...

BT