Hey Guys,
I havent posted in a while but I am fixing to open a photography business and was wondering if anyone had any advice. i have been working for an event photographer for the past 3-4 years and have got burnt out on it...badly. I have watched this guy underbid MANY jobs and have even let  him screw me on pay. I have learned what NOT to do, but was looking into protrait photography. Maybe even directories for churches. I have done a few weddings but am definatly not interested in those. I have a guy who is willing and going to front me the money for start up costs. This makes me nervous but I  am now in a position where I can devote 90% or my time to it. I am tossing up between the 40d and the d200. I know the d200 0has the master commander mode for flashes and  and I really like the usefullness of that feature for my outdoor photography. I guess what I'm asking though is how should I start and about how much should I really expect to make in the first year? Any advice at all would be a God send. I'm scared and nervous but excited all at the same time :D
yours,
Lonifer
a.k.a. Lon VanPelt

Best of luck with the new buisness! 

I have no experience with professional photography but a number of my friends have started out on there own and they have all said the same thing to me, get a good accountant and keep good records and if you are being fronted money or have a partner get a contract made up and have it checked by your lawyer before commiting to it.

I see that Lonifer is,

fixing to open a photography business

Maybe even directories for churches.

AFIK, it's difficult to do work for churches.  My local church has framed
pictures in the hallways of communion classes dating back to the 1940's. 
I've offered to scan those photographs and create a website.  I've talked
about this project for over a year still and don't have any aproval to start. 

OTOH, if you prepare a brochure with that specific chruch oriented focus
(church directories, baptism, communion, ...), as a loss leader, you might
get some other follow on activity. 

--
Martin

Doing work for churches usually ends up in you negotiating something just above charity pay - gotta be honest. Do work for OTHER churches you don't know - come in and do their directory photos/portraits/architectural shots, but come in AS A PHOTOGRAPHER - not a local guy who just bought a nice camera.

I'm not slamming churches - I hope NO ONE takes the above satement as that - just past experience. Chrches are a great way to get your name "known" but you won't make much money off of them.

I hated shooting weddings as well, but they pay some good bills. And if you're even a slightly decent salesman, you can get some extra print jobs from it.

As far as "starting" the biz for yourself, if there's ANY way you can use your own money,do it. At best use one of your credit cards to get some basic equipment - camera, a light or two, Photoshop, printer, etc.

I LOVE my D200 - the D40 will be useless o you as it doesn't have an AF motor built into the BODY - they have to be built into the lenses you buy, and they won't be as strong (if you're talking Nikon - if you really meant the 40D, I have no experience using Canon for my work, but they make just a good a quality product IMO - I used to SELL Canon products at a pro-shop).

Don't underbid just to get the job. They can smell that you need the work and will nickel and dime you - or worse yet, by targeting yourself to the cheap public you will be forced to negotiate every little thing. When I used to charge by the roll of film for a wedding (as well as my time) I actually had epople asking me, "...what if you only used TWO rooollllssss....?" If you're out of the bargain basemen price category, eithert they won't call, or won't call BACK, and you'll never have to argue with them (I always noticed they got twitchy as far as the finished product - figuring they could complain about the quality and negotiate even MORE off the price, or even a portion of a refund).

Another problem with underbidding is your price gets around - you get the next job by word of mouth, only the LAST mouth told them what they paid - good luck raising the price.
This is a tough gig - I'll be honest. I've found commercial work to be more to my liking, and I now do a lot of product photography ( LOTS of jewelry). I know people who do portraits and LOVE it - some just kids portraits, and some only retired age groups. Some people can do actor's head-shots all day every day and love every minute of it - find what you LOVE and concentrate on doing THAT kind of photography. You'll do a better job at it, and you'll look forward to the shoots - and if you're good at it, you'll find clients and know how to sell yourself and put together estimates based on your time and equipment needs.

I hope this helps - good luck, it's a fun ride!
-Lew ;-)

I thought of something else when I saw that thundering1 mentioned,

product photography ( LOTS of jewelry)

Here is a completely different approach ...

How about taking macro images of jewelery, estate sales, ... for listing on eBay? 

If you have the skills to do a web page, you might even manage the listings
for additional fees. 

--
Martin

That's a good idea - by handling the sales you can get a cut of the profits as your salary. You'd get a truckload of practice on images where not as high a quality is expected. This doesn't mean feel free to make them look bad - it's that no one will expect them to be magazine quality, so when you start getting really good you can use the images as a portfolio to get commercial clients.

Did that make sense...?
-Lew ;-)

I think what thundering1 has said here is some of the best advice I have read!! Well done on that...   Good luck on the new venture, and dont get burnt in the process, from what you say about the venture into the  event photography business, thats the reality of trying to make a living..  

Assemble as good a kit as you can afford, and go for gear that is not going to drop like a stone in price the moment you walk out of the shop.. The outlay on this to start off as A Pro will be considerable.. And what you decide to go into will perhaps determine what will be the best to buy..

Thanx Guys,
Loads to think on. The guy I talked to is expecting me to make money right off the bat now. Go figure. I tried to explain it to him but to no avail. Also hes tryin to get me to buy the $199.00 lenses and expects them to work just fine. I don't know what to think. I am taking up a job with a school photography company...inter state? The guy came off as a hard ass but I guess you gotta bewhen running a biz. I figure it will give me practice with posing and getting the appearance check list into my head like second nature. I dont like the pay but hey it's money. 
I personally would love to go hunt down elusive creatures in the woods and photograph them after sitting in the woods for days and tracking them down. sigh. 
As far as the macro of jewelry and estate sae items for ebay I may have to look into that. Just wonder where to get started :D Right now Im in this OMG kind of mode. The whole "man Ive got 4 kids and a wife and trying to start a new biz on top while working...." mentality.  I know noone else has ever had this feeling b4. But I know Ive got to do something cuz I cant stand working for other people anymore. I mean I know I will be working FOR people but ...anyways you know what Im saying. Oh well Im off to my dominos job.....oh yeah Im a pizza delivery expert now too :D
thanx again for the advice,
Lonifer

As for eBay shots and jewelry in particular, know that jewelry is difficult to photograph and you will need a small light tent or suitable set to keep metal reflections from ruining the images. I have seen "pro" eBay photographers try to do jewelry and wind up in a mess.  You have to have diffused light or the highlights blow out.

Also, an important aspect of auction shots, like eBay, is that the image be very true to the item for sale.  Do not make the image better than the actual item.  You can get away with having it look slightly worse(still good of course).   Nothing infuriates a "winner" more than having something come in the standard priority mail and look worse than the photos they saw.  If the item looks better, they are thrilled!   If you can get the shots just like the original item, great, otherwise, do not spend a lot of time sprucing up the shot since that will possibly disappoint the bidders who do purchase the items.

These auction photographers seem to have a fairly good little business going and it is worth looking at as an option.         Tom.      btw, glad to meet you.

As far as blowing out highlights - depending on the mood you're going for, feel free to blow out a couple of bits here and there. Don't go overboard with it, but don't be afraid of it either. The thought of not blowing the hghlights out is mostly for catalogs like Sears and the JC Penney, but many commercial retailers kinda like it (again, sparingly) if it gives any form of sparkle.
-Lew ;-)

BTW - the above image hasn't been "cleaned" yet, so it still has specs of dust on the glass, as well as a few and some marks on the ring - this is for catalog, not ebay.

I agree on the highlights..just make sure the image actually shows the item and highlights do not ruin the band of a ring, etc.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/media/folder_8/file_395440.jpg

The light tent is a plastic tea pitcher, the translucent white sort with a hole cut in the bottom for the lens. I sanded the inside a bit to give better diffusion. Still, with added light the stones will show and sparkle and there will be reflection off the metal.  Light for this one was a desktop flourescent lamp. Go figure! Down and dirty and quick.

Added thought on photos for auction sites(i.e. eBay):  The local places that offer the service offer FULL service. That means they not only photograph but list and sell and take a percent of the sale price, if it sells. That is a lot to do, including perhaps the mailorder part.  The business becomes much more than the photo and may be more than you want.

As for the camera choice, I have a Nikon D70 and a D200.  I would go with the D200 for certain.  The camera is a fine one and will do what you need.

Sorry, digressed a bit from your quest into auction site photos...I happen to see that as more than the photo part for the general consumer. Is that what you want?         TomDart.

Believe it or not, it's a silver ring with diamonds - it's actually in color.
I'll find a watch shot tomorrow to also illustrate blowing out highlights in a good way.

-Lew ;-)

Lonifer, I will give my 1 cents worth since that is about all I have on opening a new photo business.

Contribution supported operations such as volunteer fire departments, rescue squads, etc. are always looking for way to raise money.  A recue squad locally uses this once a year approach:
Door to door soliciataions  by squad members and with a minimum $20 donation you get a free 8 x 10 portrait.   

The same photo group has been doing the photos for several years and speaking to the photographer, they say it is a win/win situation.  Basically simple studio portrait and family shots are taken and when ready the folks come back to get their free print.  While there most will purchase print packages and the photographer makes the profit in those sales.

The photos are nicely shot but not corrected for eyeglass reflections, skin blemishes, etc.

The photo folks tell me they do quite well with this approach and the rescue squad does also.

Once the contacts are made and the work done the first time, if all goes well you have a job for the next year in the bag.    I am not recommending just this approach to a new business but simply bringing to light one approach which does work when handled right from the get go.

Best wishes in all. I was self employed for some years  prior to now and it can be quite rewarding and quite frustrating.  My initial problem was not reallty knowing the territory well enough to pull it off the first time.  After that, self employment worked fine with the hard knocks behind me.          
I hope you find your niche and do well at it.     Tom.

I encourage you to read the following two books:

"Photography Your Way" by Chuck DeLaney
and
"The Photographer's Guide to Marketing and Self-Promotion" by Maria Piscopo

If you've never run your own business before, I suggest you pick up the "Entrepreneur 2006 Essentials" CD set by Learn2, which I found many copies of at my nearest Half Price Books.

Frankly, if the best place you can think of to find advice on starting a photography business is a 3D rendering web community, then I doubt you're ready to give up your day job just yet. Photography is a business rife with nepotism, and the best way to get jobs is to find a community of working photographers and be useful and enjoyable company to them. There are many useful organizations for this purpose: the APA, ASMP, EP, WPPI, et al.

Alternately, I suggest finding local photographers in a variety of fields and assist them. The guy you've been working for doesn't seem like he's a good model to learn from. You don't make many in photography by acting like a good bargain.

Amul has sound advice.   I am by no means very knowledgeagle in business start-up but I can tell you some of the mistakes I made with my first try at self employment..my own business.
Sure, I got it all together but wasted some years and personal time and money by not being well enough perpared.

I did not have enough start up capital.  I did not have enough contacts in the industry, locally and nationally, including with financial institutions.  It took me a while untying the mistakes and developing good vendors resources.  I was pretty good at marketing but did not always have the product to market!   This was not a photo business, however, if I had spent a while with a similar company to mine beforehand, a good one, I could have learned enough to have spared some of the hard knocks of those first years.

Again, best wishes.       Tom.

Contact your local Small Business Association - they will either have people THERE, or have a list of people you can contact to have a sit-down talk about how you start up and run a company.

And Amul is right about assisting for more photographers - that's how you make contacts, can get overflow work, as well as learn a variety of techniques you will use (even from photographers that you can't stand to work with - they will inevitably teach you something you WILL use).

Most of the photographers I assisted for already made the deals before I even got there, so I didn't pick up much business advice from them - but I did pick up a LITTLE to have an idea how to figure out what to bid.

I know this is the last thing you want to read, but assisting doesn't pay much, if it pays at ALL, but the experience you get is invaluable. I realize it the word "invaluable" doesn't cover the rent at the moment, but it eventually will.

At most, I would cut back hours at your current job, and let photographers in the area know the days you are available to assist. this way you still have some version of regular income. You will see less of your family, yes, but when you own your own photography biz it won't stop then either - this is something to consider about starting your own company as well.

About assisting - you may go a little over a month before a photographer will pay you - commercial guys like me bill their regular clients monthly. We don't see a check until the beginning of the following month (which, yes, makes budgeting really fun sometimes...). This is why I suggest you keep a regular job and do this on the side for now - an average company takes 5 years to develop into a fourishing company.

Hope this helps - good luck-

-Lew ;-)

Okay, blowing out the occaisonal highlight isn't a bad thing - it can actually make your image "pop" if you have dark areas and blacks in limited quantity as well. For the ebay stuff, I wouldn't go this contrasty.

The thought process behind this form of product photography - for it to really pop is what the client wants! Basically, use lights around your subject (slightly behind, if not DIRECTLY behind) to give rim lighting, or little specs here and there where it just plain blows out. Note on the metal on the main part of the watches there are even parts that are blown out - there are also blacks to balance this out.

If you have no blacks, your image will look washed out. If there are too MANY black areas, it will look dark and muddy with the occaisonal blowout, and you won't have good definition of shape or characteristics.
There are plenty of catalogs where they don't want you to blow anything out, or crush anything to black - check out nice catalogs from the likes of Sundance and Tiffany's. This works for them, but not for the clients of the images attached.

Yes, what I'm getting at is that this is not for everyone, but don't be afraid to do it if the client is looking for something with a bit more "umpf!"

Hope this helps-
-Lew ;-)

Something to note - these images have also not been "cleaned" - in the bottom left image you can even still see my hand in the reflection near the 8. There is some dust and hairs - these would all be removed before making a Cd to hand over to the client - in the world of digital, there is no excuse for handing images to a client with dust on them. YES, it's a PITA, but it's better that you don't get any complaints - your reputation is all you have, no matter how good you are.

Good luck-
-Lew ;-)

Those shots work very well. Thanks.      Tom.