I have Bryce 6.1 which I got for a real good price. I am not crazy about the interface, finding it difficult to select objects...etc.

I started  working with the Vue PLE using VUE 6 REVEALED by Richard Schrand and I am impressed. I also use Rhino and find the interface similar and easier to use than Bryce.

On the other hand I have read things about "memory leaks" and LONG render times with Vue. And how is the support?

I would like to make prints up to 11x14 inches and I am concerned about tying up my computer for days rendering an image.

I assume it is somewhat related to hardware. I have a P4, 3GHz, 2 GB RAM, NVIDIA  GeForce 
7600 GS.

All things considered...I would appreciate any opinions. I would like to decide while the current sale is going on.
TIA
Jim Barbieri

I have been usig Bryce since version 2.1 and now have Bryce 6.1. I have recently purchased Vue 6 Infinite,  convinced  by the demo reels and images I saw. I delayed this decision for a long time as I have tested Vue 1.2 and Vue 3 and was not convinced at the time.

Bryce has had a long time without developments in it and it lacks a lot of features that are vital, especially if you render views of outside scenes.

• ground vegetation and the fantastic ecosystem feature. There is currently no practical way to
• advanced render modes (global illumination and radiosity). It does have IBL and renders pretty well with it
• realistic atmosphere models. Though you can get good results with Bryce, but nothing close to the spectral atmosphere of Vue. Bryce clouds do not seem to have changed since V3!

Vue (especially Pro Studio and Infinite) has a lot more features.

As for the interfaces, I am more a fan of the Bryce one, but I think it is a matter of taste and habits. I have got used to it and find it easier to use than the Vue one and more esthetic. It also has less display glitches (no disappearing objects). Object geometry adjusts automatically when you move them, in Wireframe mode the lines are all antialiased, etc.
And the interface of some modules in Vue (terrain editor) is a pity when you compare it to Bryce, though it offers .

As for render times, Bryce has long been known for being very slow, especially compared to Vue. I think the render speeds are comparable at equivalent quality. Bryce default render quality is higher than in Vue with very accurate antialiasing and no graininess. If you want to get the same quality in Vue that Bryce offers by default, you have to push render settings and it gets slow. Funnily, the programs have the same issues with some options (DOF is equally unuseable in both of them)

And yes, I personnally find that Vue 6.5 is buggier than Bryce 6.1, but it handles a lot more things in its scenes. It is also way more expensive and needs a beefier machine to handle it. I have a dual core Athlon and 2 gigs of RAM and have had resource problems with Vue I have never had with Bryce.

I was a huge lover of Bryce, but Vue blows it away :)
Yup Vue has bugs, ugh, but that's par for the course, apps that have better renderers are grossly more expensive/or have crap interfaces. ALso even mos tof those, doing complex radiosity renders takes a long time.

I also use Rhino! :)

IMHO it really boils down to two things, what are your needs, and what will you do to meet them.  You want to make large prints (11x14) that can be done with any imaging software.  I think you need to ask youself: do you need powerful rendering abilities?  do you need to have a program to create and render hundreds of thousands of plants? do you need powerful material editing functions?  If so, then Vue will be a great step in that direction.  As far as the second issue, you might find yourself wanting to upgrade your computer if you begin running into memory issues wiht your current computer.  But I tell you, once you get Vue you will keep expanding your scenes, putting more stuff in them, making them more complex simply because it has that power--so you will ultimately need to upgrade.

The interface is slick, but like anything else, it takes familiarization.  If all you want to do is render glass spheres over bodies of water then Bryce will suite you needs just fine--but if awesome realism is what your after then Vue might be the direction you may want to head.

Well I will add a bit about the hardware.  The P4 is not a dual processor, a Pentium D would be far better.  I run the same setup as you do except I have a Pentium D 3.7 gig.  The render times are twice as fast as a P4. 

That said, it all depends of the setting you want to render to, and the complexity of the scene, that make the render times long.  Typically my renders for a 1200 x usually take about 2 to 6 hours.  I have Photoshop CS2 and Genuine Fractals 5.1 and can easily resize to 1000%.  All in all I do finals of 16 x 22 prints on average, and it takes a very good quality loop and a very knowledgeable person to see any difference. 

I have Bryce, Carrara Pro, and Vue, the other two sit on the self.

Vue6 Infinite is the state of the art pf 3d world or enviroment software. Its also the same software used for many fature films now as well.

That said, when you run it on consumer level hardware, it does bog down and has some limitations, but if you have a decent rubust system, it runs fine, and produces outstanding results.

Just get Vue...then you'll have both and won't have to choose lol......:)

Hey, I like Monsoons suggestion best ;)

I switched to Vue just before Vue 4 came out - the material editor sold me.

I was trying to get a particular material in Bryce and failed miserably using the Bryce mat editor.
I tried a demo of Vue and got the material I wanted in less than an hour.

I still have Bryce for compatibility reason with some of my older scenes, but you know what I use primarily now :)

Thanks for all the input...one more question please.

I am considering Esprit, mainly because of the cost.  Is Infinite really worth the extra $$$? I also have Photoshop CS3 and am able to do a lot with it. In addtition -  Rhino 3.0/Flamingo.

That depends. I think Infinite is worth it....but I also use it as my end stage renderer for animating. If you go with Esprit, you can buy the add on modules as $$$ permits; when you get done, you wind up with Pro Studio (You won't have Python script support, and the ecosystems module is basically the one for Vue -5- Infinite.....but othter than that, you would have a pretty robust solution). And the best part is that if you decided to move up to Infinite, you could wait for the next version and take advantage of the upgrade pricing that e-on usually offers to early adopters.

Eco painting alone made V6I worthwhile to me.

A bigger preview window is also available in Vue-Infinite. I find when working in Esprit, the preview is way too small for me.

I had Esprit, until the price drop a few weeks, which is on until the end of Dec, and now have Pro Studio.  I find that to do Lanscapes and conserve resources I need DeepAccess, Ecosystem, and the Botanica Modules, without the modules you are getting a version of Easel on steroids.  

Which ever way you go it is worth the money, and if you are good at Bryce then you can still use the modeler.  Vue is a bit difficult when creating models.

"Easel on steroids" - LOL - good one =D

i have to say, though... learning a program using one of the "scaled down" versions is easier than starting with the mondo-uber version (in my opinion)... besides, if finances are a concern, and you buy infinite, then decide you reallllllly don't like it - you're out a LOT more than if you'd gone with the next step down (or further.... i have esprit, and i wouldnt recommend going lower than pro studio - i WANT those MODULES!   LOL) - its all personal preference & finances.... personally, i found vue easier to learn "out of the box" than bryce.

*goes back to laughing about easel on steroids and wanders off

I started with Vue 5 Esprit and slowly added the other modules to make it into Pro Studio. Then I finally made the jump to Infinite because I needed ecosystems. Since you can now get the old ecosystems as a module for Vue 6 Esprit, I would start there and see what else you need. The beautiful thing about e-on is that your investment is preserved. They give you very competitive upgrade prices so you can scale up gradually and not spend any more that if you had bought the whole thing at once.

~jr

I did exactly what you are proposing to do: moved from Bryce 6.1 to Vue (in my case, Vue.65 Infinite). Was it worth it?

Absolutely!!

I spent about 18 very happy and fruitful months with Bryce, starting at 5.5 before splashing out on V6i. Why? The quality of the renders and the way it handled natural environments were the main reasons. I loved Bryce from the moment I first used it because its so intuitive to use. Vue, on the other hand, does require you to work a bit harder at the beginning. At the start I didn't find Vue to be artistically inspiring (at all) in the way Bryce is, but, after spending about 2 months with it now, its been well worth the effort.

Vue is a very different user-interface to Bryce of course and does take a bit of getting used to, but thats true of most new programs you'll learn. Its worth the effort as you have so much more control over objects than in Bryce. Not only manipulating objects, but even more importantly, organising them.

The breakthrough for me was figuring out how to display only a single one of the 3D views at a time in Vue, just how it is in Bryce - its beyond me how anyone could work with all four 3D views open at the same time! I have a 24" widescreen monitor and even then each view was far too small to work with. Having a single view open at a time should be the default setting I think! Anyway, that was a huge step forward. Its hard to say what else is better in Vue than Bryce because practically all of it is (I sitll love Bryce though!). One look at the render quality in Vue should convince you though - after a basic bit of experimentation with a scene in about 20 mins I had a render that was far better than anything I'd ever get out of Bryce, no matter how long I spent tweaking HDRIs and so on in Byce. There is simply no comparison whatsoever...and neither should there be because V6i is an expensive bit of software, whereas Bryce isn't..

So, price is a downside (though Infinite is definitely the way to go if your budget stretches that far - the ability to 'paint' eco-systems is an absolute joy: very intuitive). As others have mentioned, Vue requires better hardware, however, my setup is pretty much identical to yours, so no problems there for you. I think the main downside though is the number of crashes I have had. More crashes in a week and a half with Vue compared to a year and a half with Bryce. I'm not exaggerating on that either - Vue is not a stable program whereas Bryce has always been very robust. Considering that V6i is pitched at the professional market, this is not good....but, despite all of that, I'm a confirmed Vue convert and wouldn't use anything else at all now!

Only a few days to Christmas, so go and buy yourself a Christmas present from e-on software! :-)

Would it be possible for those who have Bryce and Vue to load the same Poser/Daz file and render a few images?  I'm presently using D|S so Bryce fits nicely, but I am considering moving to Vue6.  Does Vue6 require Poser in order to import PZ3 files?

Thanks

Yes, you need Poser in order to use a pz3 file.  

The best way to test Vue is to try it out on your computer.  The free PLE version is not time limited or "cripple" software.  It is locked to your computer (files can not be opened in any other version of Vue or other people who have the PLE version) and the render has a watermark.  other than that - it's a full version of Infinite or xStream if you want to test how is works with programs like 3D Studio or Maya, etc.  

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/?page=try  Link is at the top of the page.

Thanks to all that have responded to my initial post. I am continuing to work with the PLE of Vue using the VUE 6 Revealed book. I am finding Vue much easier to use than Bryce. I like the 4 views and the ability to maximize one view when necessary. Very similar to Rhino which I also use. I'm looking forward to bringing in models from Rhino and incorporating them into Vue scenes.

Speed44,

As said, I use Rhino. I find for complex models (my Spelljammer ships have vast amount of parts), is to export each area/layer in Rhino out as a seperate .obj, 
I keep each area, say DECKS, or WEAPONS on it's own layer to help with ease of export amongst other things.

Then I Import each set, but do NOT touch anything until the whole thing is imported successfully, and I've checked its ok, as once you move it, you won't be able to realign it perfeclty again from import.

Simpler objects you don't need to do that. :)

This is my Rhino work:
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/rhino/rhino3d.htm

silverblade...

Thanks for the info..that will be a great help.

Great Rhino models on your website...I especially like Stormflanker as I am working on my first plane and hope to bring it into Vue when it is finished.

Speed44,
NPB mate, glad to help :)

Had fun building that, I loved all the groovy scifi stuff of the 70s, like Buck Rogers, Chris Foss's superb art work etc! ;)

Ah, so glad I found this thread and so appreciative of the input .  I do like Bryce for some things, but as I'm thinking about downloading the trial version of  Vue 6 Esprit.

I remember when I tried a trial verson of Bryce y-e-a-r-s ago and it was way too advanced for me.  Then when Corel owned it, I purchased it at a much lower price.  Than I said I would never want to do human models so Poser was of no interete, but now I'm using DAZ Studio, and loving 3D, Funny how time changes things. I guess we never lose the quest for the perfect software(s). 

patpaws,
is there an Espirit only demo now? far as I know there's only a demo of the FULL Vue6 Infinite :)

Yes - there are trial version of Easel, Esprit, and Pro.  There are also the PLE versions of Infinite and Ozone3.  If you know you can only afford Esprit, then it's probably a good idea to try that on your computer.  Otherwise you will be lusting for Infinite and never happy ;-)

There seems to be several trial version.  Wonder if you can try all?  Some features disbled, but it's 60 day trial!  :thumbupboth: I much perfer to try before I buy! 

Here is the link.   I thought I'd wait a week or so, while I clean up some other stuff so I can really focus on it.  If someone tries it out before... please let me know how it goes.   

[secure.e-onsoftware.com/try/vue_6_esprit/index.php

](https://secure.e-onsoftware.com/try/vue_6_esprit/index.php)

The PLE (Personal Learning Edition) is Infinite and does not expire.
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/try/vue_6_ple/

I am using it in conjunction with VUE 6 Revealed by Richard Schrand and it seems to be an excellent way to learn the program. There are differences between the versions and the book focuses on Infinite but I think it would still be very useful. I find it usually frustrating to just dive into an unfamiliar  and difficult program without some guidance so this is working for me.

From another former Brycer - yes, make the switch to the highest version you can afford.
It's Bryce on steroids.
-Lew ;-)

**"t's Bryce on steroids." **   I love that!!!  Sorry If I mispell anything, but I'm having my 'happy hour" while I play!  

When I first saw Bryce I was not familiar with 3D, so the concept took a while.  Now I have a better grasp.  As I see art I like I try and ask, "how did you do that",  hopefully to find something that suits me and my level, plus my desires. 

It wasn't until I saw a piece called Comsumption, and the artist said he used Vue, that I became interested in this software. 

Be careful. I downloaded the Vue 6 PLE and two days later I bought Vue 6 Infinite!

I find the ecosystems very addictive. Make a terrain, place your key elements, assign an ecosystem material to the terrain, and you have an outdoor scene. Add atmosphere and lighting to taste.

Attached Link: Canyon

I am a Bryce and Vue user from the first versions on (I even wrote a detailed comparative review about the early versions). With the present versions, there is no doubt for me that Vue is a must for the serious landscape designer. Even though Bryce 6 is a bargain, I think you should switch to Vue. The ecosystem has been mentioned before as an argument, the function editor is great for terrain and materials editing, and the options are virtually endless (at least if you use Vue Infinite, and you can upgrade later to this version). Even though Vue (like all other 3D programs) eats a lot of ressources, you should give it a try. The size of your images, however, is very big. You should think about upscaling with another program (photoshop plugin or whatever is available).

For an example what can be done with the ecosystem, take a look at the link attached.

BTW: For nice and free Vue tutorials you should visit http://www.geekatplay.com/tutorials.php

Oh, my that is so real looking!!  I'm been suduced by Vue and we haven't even met yet.