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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 09 11:21 pm)
Subject: Bondage gear and moral aspects
The decision to remove bondage gear and sexually related items happened some time ago, in order to make the site across the board, more "family friendly". For example, it is far easier to equate plain simple nudity with inoffensive art than bondage wear, which, artistic or not, is generally considered overtly sexual.
Sure, everything is subjective and one man's artistic nude is another's pornography but in this case, the site owners drew their line where they drew it.
To answer your second question, Renderotica dot com is the place you should look to for selling bondage gear.
As a side note to everyone else reading this thread, I do not want this to turn into a flame war/debate on morality/attack on anyone, or arse kickings will be issued.
Right, carry on. :biggrin:
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Quote - The decision to remove bondage gear and sexually related items happened some time ago, in order to make the site across the board, more "family friendly". For example, it is far easier to equate plain simple nudity with inoffensive art than bondage wear, which, artistic or not, is generally considered overtly sexual.
I've always had issues with the whole 'family friendly' approach. I've always felt it seeks to remove responsibility for a minor's guardian responsibility to monitor and control what information/programming/exposure said minor has access to.
For family friendly, lets go to disney.com, really, nothing possibly offensive there. Though I'm fairly certain someone can find something offensive about it.
The point? Its rather vague, but, it boils down to: If you're not comfortable with it, fine. But dont' use the concept of 'family friendliness' to do it.
Its renderosity's store, and they have every right to control the content, especially if it has to deal with being in accordance with local laws.
Just be upfront and say it. But really. I'm not trying to flame or be trouble, just staing an observation : ) Either that, I've totally missed the boat : )
I honestly have no idea why the decisions were taken. I'm a staff member, not part of the board.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Quote - As a side note to everyone else reading this thread, I do not want this to turn into a flame war/debate on morality/attack on anyone, or **arse kickings will be issued.
**
Right, carry on. :biggrin:
Hmmmm, isnt that SM??
:laugh:
I am not a complete idiot, some
parts are missing :)
To go to my home page,
click the banner below.
Check my freebies on a regular base, click the banner below.
Quote - The decision to remove bondage gear and sexually related items happened some time ago, in order to make the site across the board, more "family friendly". For example, it is far easier to equate plain simple nudity with inoffensive art than bondage wear, which, artistic or not, is generally considered overtly sexual.
It's mind boggling that they won't allow bondage gear in the Freestuff, yet there are loads of images depicting bondage or figures in bondage gear in the galleries. As to "overtly sexual", there are also plenty of images that could be considered "overtly sexual" or depicting "sexual situations, or "implied sexual acts" (both of which are listed as no-no's in the TOS).
I don't have anything against such images. It just seems as if the PTB should be consistent, but the only thing they seem to be consistent with, it being inconsistent in such matters.
It's all fun and games...
Until the flying monkeys attack!!!
Quote -
The decision to remove bondage gear and sexually related items happened some time ago, in order to make the site across the board, more "family friendly".
Thanks for the answer. I had to laugh a little at the family-friendly remark. With all the nudity going on I'm sure most parents wouldn't exactly approve of Rendo or even Poser, where their kids would basically not only get nudity but also the possiblity to pose their nude models in any fashion they like. As such I'd think that if their kids were to also add bondage equipment that would only be the tip of the iceberg. Not to mention that by using Poser primitives they could easily create some low quality quick and dirty (literally) props to indulge in their puberty ;)
Quote -
To answer your second question, Renderotica dot com is the place you should look to for selling bondage gear.
Aha! Didn't even know about that, seems my market research was lacking to begin with.
Well, my problem is that at my work in Switzerland I can't even enter the Renderosity forums at all, the automatic filter installed on our PCs there considers it contains "Nudity".
As my work has nothing to do with my Poser hobby, I can't complain about it (in my pause and lunch time I'd love to log on and browse the Renderosity forums though grr).
I wish the filter would at least accept the forums, but it blocks everything starting with www.renderosity.com.
So you are definately too hard core for me lol :)
Lunedust
Quote - I think nruddock hit the nail on the head with the PayPal. Even renderotica had the same problem, since been resolved. As far as bondage items, rename them to restraints, shackles or what ever they are, don't use the word bondage.
And then I'm good to sell on Rendo? I doubt I could so easily get around this restriction. The whole thing would be a farce :)
Well I checked out Renderotica and I'm not impressed. Seems very amateurish. Chaotic design, slow as hell, no rating system etc.
Quote - But really, I don't want to hide the real purpose of this stuff with undescriptive names and be at the mercy of the Rendo team to go or not go with it.
The best you can do is to contact someone from the MP here to discuss.
The same goes for Renderotica (but there you won't have to pussyfoot around disguising the nature of the items).
Viewed from this side of the Atlantic, a lot of the rules here & at other sites (not all art-related) seem very strange. We do tend to be more relaxed about things over here (odd since the US is probably the world's largest producer of porn...), & I'm sure Sam would (at least partly) agree, being just down t' road ;)
well, Tennessee (where the servers are)is part of the Bible Belt. If you're on a moral rampage and want to shut the site down, or sue the pants off of it, they're in a state favorable to moral outrage (I'm in the state next door, and we hear stories...;) It's one of those business decisions; be 'cool' and get sued, or...such is life. I'm sure it's nothing personal...;).
Raunchy Mnds and Rendertica have some of that stuff, you'll have to google 'em yoursef...;)
Closest thing we ever had was a figure called 'Tuyuko', which came as a character, but had some o' that stuff as add-ons. But only on the link, not in free stuff, as I recall...
I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit
anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)
Disney.com............The whole thing is offensive. Snow white and seven dwarfs. hello there is so much crap in that that could happen it has actually 10 or so porno's I know of out on the market. Now who else? Chip and Dale. Their obviously "Partners". Donald and his kids or nephews whatever. he's an abusive parent. Mickey...he walks a very thin line and is still in that closet. Goofy.. Is a handicap man who sits on the yellow short bus with a helmet and drool cup. Mini and daisy. They know the street corners well. I mean Mini wears small little skirts and Daisy...SHE WEARS NO PANTS!! obviously NC-17 rateing right there. Lets see who else. Sleeping Beauty. Of course we all think its nothing more then a wonderful cartoon right. Hell I even like it. I mean the wicked fairy queen person turned to a dragon. I wish she lived I do. But we all know Ann Rice's version was the real way it all happened. At least I think so. Now how about Beauty and the Beast. WELL we all know what she's into. All they needed was to throw a horse and a donkey in and she would be set.
Seriously if you look at any cartoon ment for kids there are so many little things that really make them stand out as...Odd. Family friendly? No such thing. But if they wish not to sell the bondage gear then Renderotica.com is the place to go. Hell I'm a member!! There is also...
www.synfulmindz.com
Another good place for fetish gear. Look into it.
Don't forget to go to Planet Vixen. The Baron makes some cool stuff.
I guess that's why he isn'r at Renderousity anymore(I don't know). Bummer!
Let me say there are products here that I consider bondage wear. It's reclassified as Adventure wear which is all cool with me, I just don't like seeing nun's dressesed like whores with guns. That's me. You justify whatever, I can't stop you. Later
Go ahead kick me off Sam I need a break anyways.
Quote - Viewed from this side of the Atlantic, a lot of the rules here & at other sites (not all art-related) seem very strange. We do tend to be more relaxed about things over here (odd since the US is probably the world's largest producer of porn...), & I'm sure Sam would (at least partly) agree, being just down t' road ;)
Aye. But there you go. :)
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
sam, I hope they can keep this civil. one of my new year's resolutions was not to refer to
any of the bondage or porno sites in any way, nor to disparage them. in regard to "have"'s
tuyuko, I never learnt why he pulled it, other than possibly due to complaints from the gaijin
that the english file had kanji characters in it (since remedied by one of our members here).
Miss Nancy - I'm sure everyone will keep things civil. :biggrin:
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
snickering at Richabri and giving him the thumbs up!
I wouldn't mind seeing what you're modeling too. It's been a while since I've bought some slinky outfits. The bondage props I have, however, I have had to accummulate from all over the net since 1998.
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8
Hmmm, I must confess that I have yet to come across anyone under 21 using Poser or any other 3D modelling/rendering software. It's expensive, and generally requires a slightly more powerful computer than the average user needs for average use. Such computers are also more expensive. Because of this, I doubt very much it's an age-related issue, which is what is implied by "family-friendly": the inference is that there should be nothing on the site that parents might feel uncomfortable that their children will see. (But then there's plenty of torture devices, weapons, guns, zombies, monsters etc... but that's just harmless fantasy so it's OK right?) I think it's definitely more of a moral-based decision at heart, whoever made it. Not that I have a particular gripe about it, but I do wish they'd come clean and just say it: "My religious and/or philosophical/whatever beliefs lead me to feel more comfortable not offering bondage gear for sale on the site" or whatever, rather than hiding behind the inference that children might be upset in some way. If kids wanted to look at naughty stuff, there's plenty of places they would choose rather than a 3D modelling site.
RCT - I really believe it was the establishment of Paypal as one of the payment methods that had a lot to do with these kind of items in the MarketPlace. There used to be very nice Fetish clothing and some prop packages available in the MarketPlace before Paypal. I think I remember something about supposedly Paypal was going to classify Renderosity as an Adult Site, if those offerings in the MP were not removed. I also understand that Visa jumped on the 'no adult purchases' bandwagon.
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8
Strange, cuz for a long time I didn't have a credit card, and the ONLY way I could pay for purchases here was with PayPal. I've been a member here for 5 years, and I've only ever used PP here. My first purchase was in early 2003, using PP. But in that 5 years, I've seen some pretty racy items for sale, particularly in the area of female attire. So I'm guessing that there's no real "policing", and the rules, such as they are, are actually fairly lax. I mean, if you can have torture devices, you must be allowed to have items for tying people up, right? I guess they draw the line at sex toys, and stuff like that.
Quote - > Quote - I think nruddock hit the nail on the head with the PayPal. Even renderotica had the same problem, since been resolved. As far as bondage items, rename them to restraints, shackles or what ever they are, don't use the word bondage.
And then I'm good to sell on Rendo? I doubt I could so easily get around this restriction. The whole thing would be a farce :)
Well I checked out Renderotica and I'm not impressed. Seems very amateurish. Chaotic design, slow as hell, no rating system etc.
Well, you could change all that if you submitted some really good stuff. It would probably sell like hotcakes next to the "amateurish" stuff they have there.
Some of the animations they have there are pretty durned good...
Anyways, yeah, there is a range of quality there, some is good,some isn't. Try putting out some "good" stuff.
Well, I didn't follow the Paypal thing here at Renderosity so closely. Someone else who knows would have to tell us about that. As for Visa, I read a couple of years ago on the Net that Visa was cooperating with the US Judicary to prosecute sellers of porn and tracking purchases of adult material by their card members. I think the links to some of the aritcles were here in the forum.
"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate
Weapons of choice:
Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8
*'Well I checked out Renderotica and I'm not impressed. Seems very amateurish. Chaotic design, slow as hell, no rating system etc."
The sales are good there though because as far as I know, you can't buy props like that anywhere else. So if you have adult products you should market them there and I'm speaking from experience.
Bondage gear props used to sell very well here at Rendo until the policies allowing them were changed. It wasn't only an issue with credit card processors and Paypal though - it was also due to the fact that Rendo was being filtered out as an adult site by the firewalls of many corporate, school and institutional servers. Like it or not, that is a very serious concern so it has to be this way now.
Renderotica is a hyper-focused location for these types of products and they sell very well there fyi :)
- Rick
Quote - 'after finding it was very lacking alltogether (not much available, and what little I found was rather low quality).'
Say what??!!!!! Are you freakin' kidding me?!!!! After a blanket statement like that I'd sure like to see what you were offering.
lol :)
- Rick
I'm sorry if that offended anyone. What I meant was not only quality from a technical point of view (modelling etc.) but also in general. For example ties that actually care how the skin underneath would react like in real life. I've never once seen morphs provided with products, or even promo images where the rope would move the skin in. That alone is so important for a believable look.
To be fair though I made that comment before I knew about Renderotica. After taking a look there I have at least found some good products. Like a nicely modelled gag and also some rope that actually looked like rope for a change (instead of toruses with a rope texture on it). Also some nice devices. I think it's all from the same guy.
Quote - Hi all, I had planned to create some high quality bondage gear for the Poser community after finding it was very lacking alltogether (not much available, and what little I found was rather low quality).
Just as an aside, Renderotica is being re-worked at the moment... :)
Quote - If Paypal was really the cause for this I don't understand how Renderotica can sell all the naughty stuff.
Simple: We figured out how (basically, you're not paying for physical items, you're paying for contracted work, which is at base true in any contracted consignment arrangement... such as Poser stores :) ).
Cheers!
/P
(who is busily working to help rebuild that critter...)
Quote - > Quote - If Paypal was really the cause for this I don't understand how Renderotica can sell all the naughty stuff.
No mystery, PayPal isn't one of the payment options for buying in the store there because it's an adult site.
Completely true.
OTOH, I don't think that would be a permanent obstacle... especially since PayPal does have and issue Debit Cards upon request and confirmation of a bank account. ;)
/P
Quote - Yep, Rick is right. Bondage stuff used to sell well here. Well enough that my first bondage gear set made me Merchant of the Month the month it came out! I must say I wasn't real impressed with my sales when I had stuff at Renderotica, but in their defense, that was about six years ago.
Yup, I remember that. Bought it, too. :)
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
Quote - Is there something like "show all by this vendor", I can't seem to pull that off.
Click on the "Shop by Artist" button, then pick a vendor.
The other advantage of brokering via Renderotica, is that there is no "Clearance" section like there is here, so once the initial rush of sales is over, items remain in the store with no need to worry about them being forced out due to lack of sales.
Quote - > Quote - I've never once seen morphs provided with products, or even promo images where the rope would move the skin in.
I have a set which includes magnets to achieve that effect; it's still being sold by Davo at Renderotica.
Ah yes I found it. Davo is also the guy that has all the other stuff I like the most. Magnets don't add a morph slider right? You can't control how much skin depression there is?
Quote -
The other advantage of brokering via Renderotica, is that there is no "Clearance" section like there is here, so once the initial rush of sales is over, items remain in the store with no need to worry about them being forced out due to lack of sales.
Oh didn't know that is the case on Rendo.
Quote - well, Tennessee (where the servers are)is part of the Bible Belt. If you're on a moral rampage and want to shut the site down, or sue the pants off of it, they're in a state favorable to moral outrage (I'm in the state next door, and we hear stories...;) It's one of those business decisions; be 'cool' and get sued, or...such is life. I'm sure it's nothing personal...;).
Raunchy Mnds and Rendertica have some of that stuff, you'll have to google 'em yoursef...;)
Closest thing we ever had was a figure called 'Tuyuko', which came as a character, but had some o' that stuff as add-ons. But only on the link, not in free stuff, as I recall...
Raunchy Minds doesn't have a store though. But if you're looking for another place to sell (and no, I'm not the owner or especially affiliated other than I know the owner...) is www.poseraddicts.com - most of their stuff is perfectly family friendly, as in it's not a porn site at all - but they have no issues about certain kinds of things. And interestingly enough, with the site being based in Germany, the german/european PayPal has NO objections to what they sell, even the racy stuff, as it's not "real items"
On another note, kids and Poser. My kids have both been using Poser for as long as they could hold a mouse. Kids generally have little interest in the "nude" part of Poser. Except for the initial sniggering - I remember once my little kid - she was around 9 at the time - was browsing through my vast runtime folder and found a character that turned out to have ..er.. quite an equipment. Let's just say a horse would be envious... She burst out laughing at the bizarre sight. And that was that. Since it wasn't what she wanted for her render (it was back when Koshini was HOT!) she just deleted the figure and started over. I doubt she was ever emotionally scarred from that expirience. I mostly remember it because I didn't even know I had that particular character.
(I've always bought good computers for my kids btw. If you put them at a crappy computer while you have a hefty monster yourself.. guess where the kids will be? Not at their own computers, that's for sure... )
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You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.
I set my kid up Aiko and a bunch of the clothes and Hiro, just set up a kid friendly poser runtime. The SIMS came out and it's been all money wasted. Has all of them like the pet content, all of the different content. Never hardly uses Poser or Daz Studio anymore. The favorite program ended up Daz Studio though because it ran better on older equipment and just over all liked the program better. Still does a render or two but not so much since the SIMS came out. Has more fun with that.
Quote- "I don't know why children are being mentioned in this thread but I'm totally opposed to exposing children to bondage/fetish stuff."
I'm totally with you there Rick. It's one of the reasons the FAQ says and is what is here I think. No, it's not disneyland. I would compare it more to television. Regular television and not with the cable package. The difference would be like the difference between checking the nudity tab or not checking it. Another feature of the site made for different audiences at home or at work.
I was making a joke ealier, hope I didn't offend anyone.
While Renderotica, as a whole, is definitely an "adult" site, there's a significant amount of more generally useful stuff there, free and otherwise. You can, for instance, find models of the equipment used to shoot films and TV. Anybody who wonders why some things seem to get shoved off to an "adult" site should be careful about models of cucumbers.
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Hi all, I had planned to create some high quality bondage gear for the Poser community after finding it was very lacking alltogether (not much available, and what little I found was rather low quality). Luckily before I started I read the Renderosity FAQ and found the following listed as items that are not allowed:
"2) Items that appear "sexual in nature" or are intended for "adult audiences" (example: bondage gear)."
I'm not entirely sure why it is listed here so explicitly in brackets. Bondage of course can be sexual but in itself really isn't. Putting this in terms of usage in art I can think of a number of very none-sexual things, scenes in the genre of gothic or horror just to name a few that come to mind. Bondage in itself can be very artful and much less sexual than the majority of nude pictures in the gallery that are apparently considered none-sexual. It further confuses me that I do find a few bondage-related products on Rendo that apparently slipped by. Also the "adult audiences" comment does not make much sense to me, as pretty much everything sold here is intended for adult audiences. I would like to hear some opinions.
And another question (since I don't suppose Renderosity is going to change their rules now), what would be the next best site that allows the sale of this type of work? Thanks for any tips.