Problem #1:  the teeth and jaw still fly out of her head when PointAt used for eyes, a disaster for animators like me who want the model to look at the camera

Problem #2:  the weird, flattening thigh leg bend first seen in V3 is still manifest in this version of V4. 

Problem #3:  this is my opinion, of course, but I actually think she is too homely by default and despite many days of tweaking when V4.0 first came out I, at least, could never give her that je ne sais quoi of 3D model loveliness... and I had no better luck with V4.2 over the last couple days.

But best wishes to all those who buy, use, and enjoy her.  I'll just wait for V5.  At least DAZ always gets my money. 

The flying jaw is a PIA that I'd have hoped would have been fixed.

I get round it by saving the scene and reloading. It's always worked but I haven't used Poser for animation yet, only stills.

I complained about vickie's dentures the other day on DAZ, it happens to me when I use point at for her eyes. Someone said zeroing the eyes makes it go back in place, but I haven't tried it.,  and I still want control of her eyes regardless, grrr. Anyway, this is the single most irritating bug with Vickie for me, it just drives me crazy LOL.

-Sarah

What version of Poser Tguyus?

Problem #3:  this is my opinion, of course, but I actually think she is too homely by default and despite many days of tweaking when V4.0 first came out I, at least, could never give her that je ne sais quoi of 3D model loveliness... and I had no better luck with V4.2 over the last couple days.

Given that she has exactly the same appearance out of the box (not counting texture), and that the morphs are exactly the same in effect, that someone would get the same results (whatever they might happen to be) falls into the "No duh" category.

The reason you're not seeing it in that image is because you kept the hip straight and just raised the leg.  In his the hip is rotated around.

Here is a quick version with the hip rotated, the right leg posed to replicate the approximate position, and the rest of the body untouched.  Without the rest of the pose to disguise it, you can see what's happening.

what are we' talking about here?,.. 'bout her eyes being crisscrossed?

my v4.2 doesn't loose her teeth???  Pointed  the eyes at the main camera, moved the head, moved the camera moved everything but the teeth stayed where they belonged

I think the teeth thing is an intermittant problem, it's only happened a few times to me. I haven't used 4.2 yet though.

...or you can parent the teeth to the head to avoid such things.

I have tried parenting and it makes no difference, it just doesn't seem to "stick"  :-) I wonder why this happens only sometimes and to only some Vickie's?

-Sarah

eh, I'm still nto impressed with V4, I'll echo the "out of box" thought of our OP.  Still, I've seen some nice morphs for her and some gorgeous pics... on the other hand I've seen nice morphs and gorgeous pics of V3...

I hate that I keep spending money on this stuff.  I'm to old to be playing with dolls, digital or otherwise.  It keeps reminding me of that Simpsons episode where everyone ran out to buy the new Malibu Stacey doll because she had a new hat.

My biggest regret about V4 is the shrinking amount of stuff for V3... still, got to love those blow out sales!

Quote - My biggest regret about V4 is the shrinking amount of stuff for V3... still, got to love those blow out sales!

Sure, I'm really disapointed too by the marketers! Except for the hairs they all let V3 down...

Quote - What version of Poser Tguyus?

Happens in both P6 and P7.

Quote - I complained about vickie's dentures the other day on DAZ, it happens to me when I use point at for her eyes. Someone said zeroing the eyes makes it go back in place, but I haven't tried it.,  and I still want control of her eyes regardless, grrr. Anyway, this is the single most irritating bug with Vickie for me, it just drives me crazy LOL.

-Sarah

You can make the jaw jump back into her mouth IN A GIVEN FRAME several ways, the easiest to me being to switch to another camera (like the face camera) and move, zoom, or rotate that camera.  The jaw magically jumps to the position correct for that frame.  But then if you move to another animation frame, the jaw is shown to be stuck at THAT frame's position.  I have not heard of any solution which keeps the jaw in the correct position for every frame of an animation.

Quote - my v4.2 doesn't loose her teeth???  Pointed  the eyes at the main camera, moved the head, moved the camera moved everything but the teeth stayed where they belonged

The jaw usually moves with the head in a given frame, but try this: (1) create a 10 frame animation, (2) go to the last frame and pose V4 in a way which moves or rotates her head, (3) now page through (or play) the keyframes... the jaw should stay in the head.  Now go to frame 1 and invoke PointAt for each eye, designating the main camera.  Now scroll through your animation and watch the jaw remained fixed in its Frame 1 position despite the head moving away.  If that DOESN'T happen to you, you would be the first person I've heard about who did not have this issue.

Quote - ...or you can parent the teeth to the head to avoid such things.

That is incorrect.  The jaw is already parented to the head.

Quote - Problem #3:  this is my opinion, of course, but I actually think she is too homely by default and despite many days of tweaking when V4.0 first came out I, at least, could never give her that je ne sais quoi of 3D model loveliness... and I had no better luck with V4.2 over the last couple days.

Given that she has exactly the same appearance out of the box (not counting texture), and that the morphs are exactly the same in effect, that someone would get the same results (whatever they might happen to be) falls into the "No duh" category.

I believe you misinterpreted my comment.  I stated she was "too homely by default" meaning only that modifications through dialing of MTs and application of magnets is required.  Since V4.2 included new morphs and (as I understood it) changes to some of the joints, that implies to me the possibility for new results from new combinations of magnet and morph settings.  All I was saying was that I could not find any new combinations of morph and customized magnet settings which improved enough on her initial, unsatisfactory appearance.  So thanks for the comment but I, for one, wouldn't have put this in a "No Duh" category.

...erh..forgot to say that you must also lock them...!
I know this is not something one should have to do (Were lucky that DAZ stick to digital stuff
and don´t produce cars), but if it works, it works. I discovered this when using V3´s poses
on V4 and the same thing with the teeth( ???) happened. Otherwise it just worked fine!

Quote - ...erh..forgot to say that you must also lock them...!
I know this is not something one should have to do (Were lucky that DAZ stick to digital stuff
and don´t produce cars), but if it works, it works. I discovered this when using V3´s poses
on V4 and the same thing with the teeth( ???) happened. Otherwise it just worked fine!

hmmm...  I just tried locking the jaw and tongue parts as you suggested and ran the experiment I described above.  Locking the jaw actors did not eliminate the flying jaw problem, whether locking the jaw parts before or after applying PointAt for the eyes.  Did you really get it to work on V4 in an animation?

Yes...sorry if I can´t be more helpful regarding this.
If you keep her mouth shut you could always make the teeth and tongue invisible...

Here´s a GIF anim!
Loaded V4 and a ballprop, pointed both eyes to the ballprop, made the ballprop invisible,
posed V4 at frame1 and frame 30. (Suddenly I didn´t have to parent or lock anything...?!)
Must be the ghost in the machine thingie...
BTW This is V4.0 !

Quote - Here´s a GIF anim!
Loaded V4 and a ballprop, pointed both eyes to the ballprop, made the ballprop invisible,
posed V4 at frame1 and frame 30. (Suddenly I didn´t have to parent or lock anything...?!)
Must be the ghost in the machine thingie...
BTW This is V4.0 !

Interesting.  Must be unique ghosts in each of our machines since the method you outline doesn't work for me.  My normal setup for eye PointAt is to have the eyes point at an invisible ball prop parented to the main camera (so the figure looks toward --but beyond-- the main camera, eliminating the cross-eyed look).  So I had already been trying the approach you suggest without success.  I'm glad if it really works for you though!

...well I never parent the ballprop to camera.
A crosseye issue or not, depends on the distance between the ball and the character.

Yes, except the flying jaw animation issue also applies to other objects parented to the head, such as hair props, so just making troublesome parented objects invisible won't work for every manifestation of the problem.  Here's a pic with off-the-shelf Sapphire Fox Hair applied to a freshly loaded V4.2, with PointAt toward an invisible prop invoked.  This doesn't happen with V2, so there's just something fundamentally wrong, IMHO, with the way V4 is coded.

BTW what is the file limit for images here?
Tried to attach a GIF anim but it´s apparently to big!

500kb I think.

I can´t be right. My GIF is only at 278 kb.

hmm my bad it is 200KB

this is from  the faq

Attachment size when posting to a forum

Category: Forums

Viewed 451 times

Asked at 12:01 am on Wednesday, May 30, 2007

I just tried to attach a file to a forum post. The attachment was rejected with the message that it was too big. But I can't find guidelines anywhere regarding maximum size for forum attachments. Last modified 2007-05-31 12:42

Response

200 KB is the maximum file size for attachments in the forums. Answered 2007-05-31 12:42 / last modified 2007-05-31 12:42

200 kB ??? That was stingy of them :mad:

Quote - ...well I never parent the ballprop to camera.
A crosseye issue or not, depends on the distance between the ball and the character.

Well, well!  It worked!  I'm not sure what the critical element of the method is, but I did the following steps:

1.  loaded raw V4
2.  locked actor for both jaw parts and all tongue parts
3.  loaded ball prop and left unparented to anything
4.  pointed each eye at ball prop
5.  made ball prop invisible
6.  added frames to animation
7.  posed V4 in last frame

The flying jaw issue disappeared!

I then added raw Sapphire Fox Hair and it too followed the pose as it's supposed to.

Congratulations!  I think you've at least found a workaround!

It would be interesting to do some experimenting to see which element(s) of the strategy eliminate the problem.  It may well be keeping the "pointed at" object unparented, at least to a camera.  

OTOH, since I'm not enamored of V4, I probably won't use this fix much, but hopefully it will help others.

addendum:  just took the above scene and parented the ball prop to the main cam... the flying jaw and hair prop issue returned

addendum #2:  just changed the "point at" ball prop parent to another, new, unparented ball prop and the flying jaw problem disappeared again... 

Why must you guys pick things apart? It's only a 3D model. Not a real human.

What do you expect? You do this every time Daz has a new release.

And, if there's something wrong with the fig, bug report it so they can fix it.

Long live V3!!!!!

Never never give up!
Glad it works :thumbupboth:

Quote - Why must you guys pick things apart? It's only a 3D model. Not a real human.

What do you expect? You do this every time Daz has a new release.

And, if there's something wrong with the fig, bug report it so they can fix it.

Long live V3!!!!!

uhhh...  first of all, your message implies it would it be somehow more appropriate or understandable to "pick apart" a real human than a 3D computer toy.  Where does THAT come from?

Second of all, on what basis are you saying "you" (meaning, I suppose, me) "do this every time Daz has a new release"?  As a personal matter, I certainly don't criticize every Daz release.  I have lots of Daz stuff which I think is great.  But if you mean "you" as a reference to "people in this forum who criticize Daz things" I'm sure there are many here who would question the idea that I, or others with whom I've been discussing this flying jaw issue, somehow represent them or their views or forum discussion habits.

Third, the flying jaw issue has been reported many times, including by me directly to Daz, starting with release V4.0; so it's a little presumptuous of you to be giving lectures about proper channels for reporting bugs.  The simple fact is that Daz has failed to address this issue in its coding for V4.x. 

Finally, while I may be "picking apart" your message, I have no ill will for you as a "real human."  So... peace....

Quote - Never never give up!
Glad it works :thumbupboth:

Well, kudos once again for discovering a potential workaround.  Perhaps someone who uses V4.x extensively for animation will carry this further and isolate the critical elements of the workaround (e.g., does it work if the jaw parts remain unlocked?  does it work if the point at target remains visible? etc)

cheers...

I think it's a Poser bug personally(have no proof). I've had lots of problems with P7 forgetting to move half of a figure, Sometimes you can click on another figure or a different body part and in an instant everything suddenly snaps into place the way it should. It's like those funny leg twitches when doing inj's. Why does it do that? It's memory  issues probably.  Might try setting the undo's down to about five and save very often and all that, but it still comes down to some computers do better than others.

Yeah, I' think it might be more of Poser problem then a V4 problem.  Here's why I think that.  After I purchased Poser 6, I had the strangest problem with some of my pose injections with V3, Aiko and M3.

I would set up my character, conform some clothes, then inject a partial pose  (you know, from one of those pose sets that let you choose poses for arms, legs and such separately.)

Anyway, when I injected the pose, the character would strike the pose, but oftent he clothing would not, or even worse, the clothing would just go into seemingly random places.

What I found (wierdly enough) was that if I chose to 'undo', then 'redo', that the whole thing worked fine.  A real pain in Poser 6 because you only had one undo, so  Camera move or anything else, and I was screwed.

I have still had this problem intermittenedly with Poser 7, but the Undo, then Redo thing completely seems to work.

I've never had this problem with any non-Daz figs.

Anyway, Tygus, could you give that a try and tell us your results?  I'm betting you're running into the same bug, just expressed in a different way.

Good luck.

Ok, ran a few more tests just for the heck of it (and in case it helps others) since, as mentioned above, I don't plan to use V4 further so this is of limited practical value to me personally. 

Results of first tests implied that the only thing that mattered for causing the flying jaw was whether the V4 eyes were set to PointAt a camera or an object parented to a camera (any camera, not just the one used for the current display).

When I reparented the PointAt target prop to UNIVERSE, the jaw behaved properly again.  But then the flying jaw returned if I subsequently reparented to ANY prop or figure below the UNIVERSE level.

But then I followed ThrommArcadia's suggested experiment (at least as I understood it).  I applied a new V4 pose in the last frame and got the flying jaw, but switched to the Face Cam and rotated it to snap the jaw back in, then hit Undo.  Very surprisingly, the jaw then worked properly throughout the animation, even when the PointAt target prop was reparented to a camera.  That is, I could then actually run an animation with the eyes pointed at a camera and the jaw staying in place.  However, I tried to repeat the procedure and it didn't work the second time. 

Perhaps others could keep experimenting with this, though, since it's past my bedtime now and, as already stated, my motivation for exploring V4's issues is pretty limited.

In any case, thanks to ThrommArcadia and others for the thoughtful ideas and suggestions.

cheers...

ThrommArcadia

This issue with the clothing/pose occured even with Poser 4, for me!
Not always, but with some clothing.
Since then I always pose the character first and then put the clothing on.

This happens sometimes also with hair props and hair figures, so I always
reparent them to the head, as well, before start posing a character.

• Just in case...

Cheers
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