Well just as I was getting comfy with V4/V4.1, along comes V4.2 AND A4! So I have read all the Daz forum stuff. Posted questions/concerns and did not get responses on how and if V4.2 will permenantly replace my V4.1 (*because I hear the V4.2 has ucky textures and odd shoulders, not to mention the install problems). Then A4 comes along  and it seems that there are more headaches, but I read here that some like her very much(*A4). Does she overwrite A3? I know that sounds stupid, but I have to ask since no one at Daz answered this would someone here? Also can some one explain if V4.1 will be useless after the install? and if so how do I make sure she doesn't get overwritten? Why does V4.2 morphs not work on V4.1? (*I found that out with Rhi's Tanya, cause I applied the wrong morph set, so it concerns me that V4/V4.1 morph characters will not work with V4.2). Heck I don't know.

I remember how I swore I would never use any V4 a long time ago! Well I am trying to be more inquisitive about V4.2, and A4, before freakin' out. LOL! So someone out there have some info I can take to heart and know what to do next?

ThanX!!!
Hugs
Ariana

**From my understanding of it all.....V4.2 overwrites V4.1 in that she makes V4.1 become "injectable" so that in order to use your "old/previous" characters for V4.1, you need to inj ALL morphs. This is if you have a scene with V4.1 saved. She may not load back up looking right, but should once you do that. You can also load V4.2, then inject her ALL morphs (base and +++) and then click on the character you want and she'll do as she should. But you MUST inject all of her morphs before you click on the character you want to use.

A4 is an added morph to V4.2 and has nothing to do with A3. Your A3 is perfectly safe from her.

Hope that helps some.
**

ThanX so much for the help. I created 2 Rts in my poser! One with V4.2/A4 and One without in case.  So far I have not had a chance to do much with it so I will be aware of what you said.

A4 loses her face poses when you change her poses, have you rendered her? Did you get the same error too?

ThanX!
Ariana

actually thats not going to work, Poser will invariably read the wrong runtime, you need to overwrite V4.1 with V4.2 in order for everything to work correctly, both Poser and studio have a really bad habit of reading the wrong Deltas file when loading morphs. (possibly completely disconnecting the second runtime from your poser library system when you use her, and do the opposite when you use V4.1, might work, but its not recommended). as far as the joints and stuff you mention in your first post there is absolutely no difference between the two. the joints are exactly the same.

Hi there,
Actually I have them labled Runtime(1) & Runtime(V42), when I want to work with V4.2/A4 I just manually change the "Runtime(V42)" to plain Runtime, and vice versa. That way I have my regular V3-V4.1 as it was before the "Upgrade".  I will most likely change it down the road, but until I get used to V4.2 and her new quirks, I will save a V4.1 clean RT always I think. A4 is ok I suppose, I am not in love with her yet. Seems to be a really collossal waste of time. 

I appreciate the info tho and as I try her out (*cautiously) I will most likely get used to her like I did V4... :/

Hugs
Ariana 

**Ariana,

Zip up your original V4.1 and store that zip somewhere you won't lose it. Will is totally right on that you can only have one Runtime for her now. And her deltas MUST be in Poser or she won't work correctly in Poser. Could be why you are losing face poses.

I don't have her on my computer because the installers are giving me problems. Plus, I haven't bought A4. But my roommate has her and I've used her there. There's an image of her in my gallery. There were no problems with posing her. And in my opinion, V4.2 has much better bends than V4.1. Especially in the thigh area. Soon as I can get the problem with the installers worked out, I plan on getting her. I love this new version.
**

Unicornst, over at Daz they said to completely remove V4/V4.1 before installing V4.2, so the second Runtime is done that way plus adding A4 (*all Morph++ and other updates are in that runtime. What I did was name one rt with an amended name that I can switch out when I want a rt with V4.2, and one rt that is named rt, so that if I only want my old original I leave it as is, but if I want to use the New rt I just switch the name and poser ignores the odd named rt folder. So far no issues.

The folder with all the V4.2/A4 stuff does not have V4/V4.1 in it, and vice versa...   So any ideas why her face changed expressions when I tried to repose the body? I amended the A4 face by hand and created a more pixi-ish face than the standard A4 face, see pic here** ** you can see the slight difference in the face from A4. When I changed the body pose the face got a "screwed up" expression, when I tried a second render. Weird, maybe a glitch I am not used to the A4 face manipulations, I did apply the A4 & V4.2 Morphs ++, and the possibillity that I did it wrong is very feasable. So any thoughts on that are appreciated... I'll do some test renders and see if it happens again and will post the errors here later if they repeat.

Hugs
Ariana

**Wow! Talk about complicated!!

** I'll be sticking with A3 and V3!  I do have V4.1 and TBH I'm not really partial to her at all. I still use V3 and A3 the majority of the time.

Do the character addons for V4 and V4.1 even work with V4.2?

**The thing is, with the way they have redone V4, is that if you have more than one !DAZ folder anywhere on your computer, it can mess things up. At least that's what they keep saying.  Poser will refer to the very first !DAZ folder for the morphs it comes across and if that one does not have the update for V4.2 and A4, then it can mess the model up in strange ways. That's why I suggested zipping up the original and storing it. Then if you decide you do not like V4.2 or A4, you can always unzip her back and run the updater again and restore V4.1 that way.

It's not the extra runtime itself that causes the problem. It's having more than one version of the !DAZ folder with different updates in them. And apparently, the order in which you apply the morphs. I've seen it stated by Daz tech many times that you must inject the base morphs, then the ++ morphs, then the character. Why, I don't have a clue. Just going by what I've read.

The only other thing I can think of that could possibly give her strange expressions is the pose itself. It's possible if it was a pre-made pose (one you didn't do yourself), then the creator of the pose left something that shouldn't have been there and that changed her expression. Or it could be part of the pose itself and that changed her. (Used to be people included facial expressions with body poses for whatever reasons.) Another thing I have seen people say is that in Poser, you want to turn the IK off on V4.2 or she does really weird stuff.

Oh yeah...was the body pose for V4 or A3? I ask because you you do need to use V4 poses on A4. A3 poses mess her up as much as V3 poses would. Just trying to think of possibilities here.
**

Quote - **Wow! Talk about complicated!!

** I'll be sticking with A3 and V3!  I do have V4.1 and TBH I'm not really partial to her at all. I still use V3 and A3 the majority of the time.

Do the character addons for V4 and V4.1 even work with V4.2?

From all I have seen and heard, characters for V4 and V4.1 work just fine with her. The thing about this new one and the A4 added morph is there is now so much more versatility, it's amazing.

all of the character addons work fine with V4.2 the only difference is that due to direct requests from quite a few users who complained that having the morphs automatically inject on load made her more memory intensive than she had to be for their purposes, DAZ has set up V4.2 to be completely injectable. so characters that do not use injection poses will not find the morphs they use unless you inject the figure with the morphs++ morphs first. hopefully merchants will see the benifit of including Injection morph poses in the future, just as they did with V3.

**Will,

There's one thing I don't get, though. I've always made my V4 characters inject, even though I could have just made them poses. I got in the habit with V3. Now here's the thing I don't get. With V3, you could load her, inj the character of your choice and there she was. With V4.2, we're told we have to load her morphs and ++ morphs first, then inj the character's morphs. Why can't you just do with her as you did with V3? Take her straight from being loaded to character without all the extra loading of morphs that aren't being used for the character you want to load?

I hope I made that question clear enough. ** :unsure:**
**

yes you can do that, but becouse she wasn't set up to use individual injections before V4.2 Injections werent supported in character packs. character packs created before V4.2 only contained morph poses which don't inject the morphs, they need a readscript in the pose that calls the morph to actually inject them.

Ahhhh...so future characters made specifically for V4.2 (and using V4.2 in the creation) can be injected just like V3 and you don't have to use all those other ones. That's great to know! Thanks for clearing that up, Will!!

WAHHHHHHHHHHHH! I am so freakin' confused now! I already saved out my V4.1

I save every Base character in a seperate folder on a seperate drive...
Are you saying that !Daz searches my D drive and externals too! UGH! 
I got a problem with Daz becoming so invasive with thier software, it is
like you have no real choices at all! I mean whatever they create you HAVE to
use it!

*sigh....

Yeah, I am used to doing V3 like you too. So injecting isn't the issue, it is the 
IMHO, the sort of screwy way they do things anymore.

ThanX for the input !!!

Hugs
Ariana 

Inject the ++ morphs and save V4 back to the library. Everything will work exactly as before.

Coldramke

Quote - WAHHHHHHHHHHHH! I am so freakin' confused now! I already saved out my V4.1

I save every Base character in a seperate folder on a seperate drive...
Are you saying that !Daz searches my D drive and externals too! UGH! 
I got a problem with Daz becoming so invasive with thier software, it is
like you have no real choices at all! I mean whatever they create you HAVE to
use it!

*sigh....

Yeah, I am used to doing V3 like you too. So injecting isn't the issue, it is the 
IMHO, the sort of screwy way they do things anymore.

ThanX for the input !!!

Hugs
Ariana 

**Nope...not saying that. I'm saying that when you load V4 in Poser (or Studio) the character file looks for the !DAZ folder that is under Runtime/libraries. And with the way they have made V4.2, (even with V4) you need to have that (!DAZ) folder in Poser's main Runtime if you are using Poser.

You can have V4.2 in a separate Runtime. But the !DAZ folder that has her deltas needs to be in Poser's Runtime as well as your separate Runtime to work the most efficiently. Just copy the V4.2 files in the !DAZ folder over to Poser's Runtime and you'll be good to go.

!DAZ is not Daz/Studio. It's a folder in every base human figure they make that holds the deltas.
**

Quote - Inject the ++ morphs and save V4 back to the library. Everything will work exactly as before.

Coldramke

**Be sure to name her something else though, if you do this.

Main thing I've read that could put a hinder on that is that if they do any more updates to V4.2 (such as M4), then the updater will not work on your re-saved V4.2.
**

actually I think that coldrake was refering to doing that with V4.1 which actually makes a lot of sense, there will be no more updates for V4.1 so freezing it at its current state won't harm anything, no need to use the !DAZ folder at all for that resaved figure becouse Poser adds all the morphs to the cr2 permanantly on resave. and than you have no reason not to overwrite the !DAZ folder for V4.2 becouse V4.1 doesn't need it any more.

Oh. Sounds reasonable.

If you have a cr2 that was previously made with 4.1, you can zero all the morphs and save that cr2 in place of the overwritten 4.1 cr2. I have both working fine in my install.
I also renamed both the cr2's and the png's as 41 and 42 instead of 4.1 and 4.2. One of my programs had trouble with the extra dot, can't remember which one.

Hi I'm back!

OK, so I have V4.1 saved out seperately, and you say if I rename the CR2's to V41, and resave it will be stable? Sorry to sound stupid but I am learning some very valuable info and want to be ultra sure before screwing anything up!

Also will this work for the V4.2 also??? I mean I don't know that I want M4!  Shoot rarely does anyone use M3 because of fit problems and posing. I honestly do not want my V4.2 to convert to M4 as well! I think!!! :( 

I have decided that A4 is too much of a headache and I do not want to invest in all her stuff at this point. So I have removed that updated version and won't need her (*at least at this moment) in the foreseen future. I mean all the cute A3 stuff I have is not good with her and I am by all means not rich! I think I am tiered of lining the Daz purse for some time to come. Rather spend it here. Or at someplace like Xurge, or Sanctum Art!

Be sure to let me know on the V41 / V42 issue!!!

ThanX!!!
Ariana

What **coldrake **& wdupre said is correct because I did sort of what they suggested. Here's what I did and works.

1. If you have V4.0 you can keep her installed since she didn't have an !DAZ folder.

2. If you have V4.1 installed open up Poser or Daz and load V4.1 and load the morphs++ now save that model to your library, now do the same if you have muscle morphs and creature creator morphs. This way you will have minimum of 3 new basic V4.1 models that you can use if you want that will work along side V4.2 with no problems, just like if you were clicking on the original Daz V4.1 icon but now the morphs are already installed. All with different names obviously like I use V4.1Mod for example. Now you can do as told by Daz and uninstall V4.1.

3. Install V4.2.

4. You can have V4.2 in an external runtime. Just during the installation (Poser installation option) you install her in the main application Poser program folder then move the folders over to your external runtime after the installation is done. You need to have a copy of the !DAZ folder in the main poser program for it to run as efficient as possible. I keep a copy of the !DAZ folder in my external runtime just for when I backup my runtimes its an easy way to make sure to have a copy of that folder also, but it is important to have one in the main application Poser program folder.

5. The only things you need to reinstall for V4.2 is the Base, Morphs ++, Muscle Morphs, Creature Creator Morphs if you have any of these.

6. When you install the folders to the main application Poser program folder but want to move them to your external runtime the files you want to move are in the geometry folder, character folder, pose folder and texture folder.

In the Geometry folder you will look for Null.obj and the DAZPeople folder both get moved over.
Runtime : Geometries : DAZPeople

In the Character folder you will move over V4.2 files.
Runtime : libraries : Character : DAZ People

In the Pose folder you will have a main folder with several sub folder depending on which of the different Morphs I listed above you purchased and reinstalled but will go basically.
Runtime : libraries : Pose : DAZ's Victoria 4 : General Poses
Runtime : libraries : Pose : DAZ's Victoria 4 : Magnetize Clothing
Runtime : libraries : Pose : DAZ's Victoria 4 : MATerials Samle-Res

In the templates folder you will move the templates folder.
Runtime : Templates

In the Textures folder you will move the DAZ folder.
Runtime : textures : DAZ : Characters : MilWom : V4

These are all for the V4.2 Base you can get the exact files from the readme's if you are unsure or if you want I can post the other ones also.

I also found that if you have a previous version of Poser you can do as suggested by DAZ is to install V4 in the main application Poser program and leave it there, but I did that for V4.1 as well as what I have suggested above. Because I was experimenting in the first few days to see what worked best cause I wanted to keep V4.1 so I could create new V4.1's will working alongside V4.2 and didn't know which one was going to work the best, but found out either way that I had described will work out. I hope this helps everyone out and if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

ThanX for the great breakdown lonar!!!

I have copied it over to my Info" folder and will put it to good use! If only Daz did things in a more simplified way, instead of all this need to do direct installs into the P7 main RT!  Oh Well...

ThanX again, I am off to re-organize (*again!) ;)

Hugs
Ariana

Well you do need to do a direct install first then move the files I said you can move over to the external runtime if you one since the installer program doesn't like external runtime unfortunately. But I gave you the information of what to move in order so you know what to move and no problem I am glad I could help out. :-)

Yes, I understand. I use all external RTs except for Base Characters w/ Chans Vis/Deltas installed. I just hate the space and way that the new daz stuff demands that you install into the RT first. I did all of my other characters outside and then Sub Foldered them inside to save load time.  *sigh

You do excellent info, maybe you should write Tuts! I tried once, I will gladly leave that to patient persons like yourself!!!

Hugs
Ariana

Well thank you for that compliment Ariana actually I have done a few Computer Based Tutorials before so I do have some experience with that, as well as figuring out how to make programs and computers do things that you want them to do even if they don't want to do them :tt2: . Sometimes my biggest problem comes to explaining how I did it to others still though hehe.