I would be interested in discussing some issues regarding importing BVH files into Poser with a couple of folks who are familiar with the procedure and have a good understanding of the Poser animation tools.

pcooke@philc.net

Thanks.

What is your issue Phil.?  I am not an expert by any means but have done a few . Adjusting for the individual model bone lengths is a pain but Ochams BVH mixer is a useful tool .

Poser will attempt to retarget the motion which is good for using generic BVH files on figures.  This is known as 'motion retargeting' in the bizz.  Poser's version doesn't work great - it is using a basic form of this.  There are better ways to retarget but then the complexity of the algorithms goes up similarly.

As markschum mentions, adjusting the joint lengths is one area that needs consideration for BVH application.  Disparate joint lengths change the range of motion (apparent).

Another area that requires special attention is when there are fewer or more joints in the target than in the BVH.  Motion then needs to be either subdivided (more) or consolidated (less) to account for the differences.

And yet another area is when joint names or hierarchy don't match.  Many solutions involve manual correlation between the joints in the BVH and those of the target.

Several issues I have had with BVH files is the way the figures bones or body part names are. Say for example I have a few BVH files for P4 and when I try to use them on another figure states body part not found and the end result is jerky or does not look right. Also sometimes the BVH is not made for a poser figure and the axis is wrong or the figure drops from main  screen.

Thank you for your responses. If you would be willing to send me your email addresses may I attach the file in question by return?

my email is fwind@frontiernet.net

for mine use marks542004@yahoo.com thanks

phil, keep us posted on this.  I'm particularly interested in any methods of applying
standard bvh files to the newer figures with additional joints, e.g. apollo.

p.s. I don't advise posting e-mail addresses "in the clear", as spiders or bots may be
trolling this forum for machine-readable addresses.

I have been luring on may game sites for a few years and I found that if you open a bvh file with MS excel it gives you a good hierarchy. Here you can modify the file to fit your figure.

Example
in the BVH Right hand is Right Hand
In the figure Right hand is RHand

Just rename the part to RHand in the BVH and save it.

This can be done is notepad but very hard to follow the hierarchy. 

Don't suppose there is a script that would rename all of this? That would be good if there were and also I like using BVHs but there's just not that many that I've been able to find.  Plus when I load them the figure usually walks about 10 feet above the groud - easily fixable in the y-axis but it would be nice if there was some sort of universal BVH conversion to Poser figures......

What I do in that case use drop to floor all frames in P7. Thought there was a script for P6 that did it.
As for renaming parts right now the only option is to use a program like Lifeforms to match parts.

All I know is there is a lot of BVH on the web, some free, and Poser can import it, but it needs a lot of work to make it useful: Poser 7 has menu editor that can help fix the shoulder issues. All other versions of Poser and DS can't do it. There is PC program here at Renderosity that can edit the bad shoulders, but it's PC only. Ochams has some BVH python helpers. I tried one of them. It did do a good job fixing the glitches of an import. But the down side is the process took a long time. Something around 12 hours. My Wishlist: 1) Fix Shoulders being positioned too high on the body 2) Put figure down on the floor (or wherever I want it) rather than floating in space, facing backwards, or floating sideways. 3) Fix Glitches in BVH import (remove the bad frames) 4) Do fixes quickly if possible 5) Convert BVH to Universal Pose/Puppet Master/Master Pose suitable for all figures rather than having to import the BVH for each I want to use it on (because you can't save the imported BVH as an animated pose because the it looks worst on the next figure. You have to import BVH fresh for each figure.) 6) A way to choose frame removable, like every 5 frames, or every other frame, and not loose the x,y,z or basic pose from Key frame to keyframe. If I try this by hand, the results Aren't pretty, the figure flies all over and twists up in a pretzel. >< 7) A way to render an animation! My machine dies on anything other than a preview render. If I use image by image, it dies on frame 2. So it pretty much is useless to animation in Poser. Therefore, some kind of export helper to other programs to render, like Vue or Carrara? Hmm.... I don't know. I haven't tried it yet. I have also been thinking about your Rotoscoper python now that I'm venturing into 3d animation. Sometimes I think it would be easier to make your own pose animation than import BVH! Using video import to help with timing and the pose I think would be a great help. So anything you can tell me about Rotoscoper I would like to hear. ^^ Okay... just a few of my thoughts. ^^ bB

What I would like is to combine 2 BVH files together. I have tried this in Poser but what happens usually is the 2nd BVH goes back to the 0 position of the figure instead of where the figure was last at and does not keep the last frame pose.
I got a copy of IClone SE in a PC magazine I subscribe to. IClone is suppose to be able to edit BVH files but I have not found away using SE.

The BVHs really get a good looking animation and I wish there were more of them or they were easier to use for Poser.  keep posting resources and tuts....tks

BVH editor for Poser can be found at:

www.credo-interactive.com

If your having trouble finding it, here is the link to the Life Forms to Poser tutorials.

www.credo-interactive.com/support/tutorials.html#poser

And here you can download a fully functional 20 day limited demo.

www.credo-interactive.com/trial/download_info.html

Interesting. It works on the Mac too. I don't think it will improve Poser's import of BVH, but it could be handy to fix and combine BVH before importing, right? bB

Quote - What I would like is to combine 2 BVH files together. I have tried this in Poser but what happens usually is the 2nd BVH goes back to the 0 position of the figure instead of where the figure was last at and does not keep the last frame pose.
I got a copy of IClone SE in a PC magazine I subscribe to. IClone is suppose to be able to edit BVH files but I have not found away using SE.

Yeah, this is one place where Poser animation falls down (in general).  When importing/applying BVH or animated poses, it always adds keyframes at the keys stated in the file.  It never considers the current frame setting for offset.  It would be a bit easier if Poser allowed multiple documents to be opened.  Then you could apply two BVH sets and copy/paste from the one document into the other.  Alas, neither of these options is available.

The only read option for the time being would be to update the keyframe numbers in the BVH file manually so as to apply them later on.  Not sure if Poser still clears existing animation.

One thing I learned recently regarding Poser and BVH is that if you're using a complex higher-end character like V4 or V3, it makes a big difference to first import the BVH file onto a simple character, like the "Stick Man/Woman" character, save that as an animation in the Pose library, then apply the animation to your more complex character. Why this works I don't know exactly, but I suspect that Poser does some kind of skeleton retargeting when it applies the animation internally that it doesn't do when you import the BVH directly. In any case, in the tests I've done, jitter and especially foot skating or feet sticking through the floor can be pretty much eliminated by using this method. --Tim

Interesting.... I will have to try it.

Quote - What I would like is to combine 2 BVH files together. I have tried this in Poser but what happens usually is the 2nd BVH goes back to the 0 position of the figure instead of where the figure was last at and does not keep the last frame pose.
I got a copy of IClone SE in a PC magazine I subscribe to. IClone is suppose to be able to edit BVH files but I have not found away using SE.

The only successful way I've done this is; 1) Load the first bvh (Make sure you've written down the lengths of all your motion files, so you know how many frames each one has). 2) Go to the total frame count window, take that frame number, add it to the frame count of the 2nd bvh, then add however many transitional frames you think it will take to go from the last frame pose of bvh 1 to the first frame pose of bvh 2. 3) Move your frame counter past the transition time, where you have enough frames left at the sequence end to import bvh 2, then import it. 4) If you scrub the timeline, you should have both bvh files, and the transistion time. Now open the graph editor and start correcting the inevitable wild swings of limb, and XYZ skating all over the place between 1 & 2. 5) And it wouldn't hurt at all to just start a scratch folder and save your work at every major benchmark(successful import, X translation correction, Y translation correction, etc. Get in that habit, and the amount of repair work you have to do when you screw something beyond repair is lessened; just roll back to the last save, and all you've lost is the single axis of movement you were working on)

Quote - Interesting. It works (Life Forms 4.0) on the Mac too. I don't think it will improve Poser's import of BVH, but it could be handy to fix and combine BVH before importing, right? bB

Read the tutorial first, download the manual and program and give it a try.  Its FREE.  Try combining a couple of bvh's, edit them, and export to Poser.  You got nothing to loose by trying it out.

Here is a new facial motion capture product that costs under $120 and produces bvh output.  I would like to try it out by bringing into LifeForms and then cleaning it up and out to Poser.  It needs a direct script for Poser if anyone knows how to write one.  Check it out at:

www.zigncreations.com/ztfeatures.html

I see from the home page that the Poser script is in production for Zign Creations.

Looks very interesting.
cheerio  lululee

Here is a video showing the Zign Motion Capture to Poser export.

www.youtube.com/watch

I am soooooo interested in this. Really looking forward to the release of the poser export.
cheerio  lululee

What I do not like about using BVH is that every frame becomes a key frame and I do not know how to deal with that nightmare yet.

Attached Link: http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=414392537197856698&hl=en-AU

Thanks.

Quote - I am soooooo interested in this. Really looking forward to the release of the poser export.
cheerio  lululee

I have good news, I have just released version 1.3 with Poser export. Tutorials and example files are available on the website www.zigncreations.com

Does look impressive!  What then is next exported your working one....Blender???

Quote - Does look impressive!  What then is next exported your working one....Blender???

Blender supports custom constraining of the BVH files, so it already works in Blender. I am currently working on eye tracking and will add other export formats after that.

Do you have a demo video showing it working with Blender yet?  I would really like to see it!

I don't have a demo video for blender yet. Jason Pierce wanted to make a tutorial for this but he didn't have time yet. He did share a simple example blender file. You can download it here: shared.zigncreations.com/suzanne_mocap.blend

How compatible is it with Life Forms for adjusting the BVH?

Quote - How compatible is it with Life Forms for adjusting the BVH?

I don't know, I haven't worked with Life Forms. I see they have a demo verion. If you don't already have it, you could try it with the demo.