This CD has been in the home, normal temps, in a case in a rack not in the sunlight.

The opened image is the main one.  Damaged.  Totally not readable. Recovery possible? I don't have a clue but doubt it.

**But why does the thumbnail (if I choose thumbnail in the folder view instead of list, etc.) show what appears a full shot?

**I posted this in a new thread for the benefit of all who save all backups to disc, CD or DVD..a little less than 5 years took this one away from being useful.       TomDart.

Don't be too concerned, I say to Tom. I believe the originals are on the hd of the old pc moved into storage while remodeling is done here..stored in a room we called the den until it became a storage room for all the other stuff! Yikes!

The Cd was a Memorex RW, not an R.  I went through many tonight and whether RW or R did not seem to make a difference in damaged or not..all the others were just fine and are now in a folder to go to one of the external hds.

So, I guess the question is, what percentage of the images were damaged?

No method with digital is 100% safe..

External HD is one of the safest methods, but files can go corrupt..

Bruce, every image on that disc was damaged.   I did put a link to this thread on the community center forum...sure there are some who only use discs to backup.

Years ago we thought these things lasted forever.  Not so.      Tom.

@Tom;
My question to you is...did you check this CD imediately after you burnt it?
It is possible that the burn itself was corrupted in some fashion, causing the problem...rather than a result of CD degradation.

gradient, yes, the CD was checked when burned.  I always have done that and even saved a file or two to ease any suspicion of corruption on the original burn.   This has happened since and honestly, who knows how or why for certain.

Perhaps someone can answer this one: Writable discs for home are one thing and commercially processed are another, I understand this is true?  Pressed and not cut as home or business users do with writable discs?

So, if Photoshop™ installation disc is here..will that one degrade or keep its stuff?  I would not like to have the pc ask for the disc and find corruption there.   With some smaller programs, we really do not know how the disc was done in the first place.  Not to think about or go nutzo.

Thanks for the reply.  Still, the tiny thumb is "fine" in small view but larger is unreadable. Humm...

@Tom...Ok, was just a thought...

Another thought.....This may be a bit off the wall, but....here it is...

The lasers used 5+ years ago to burn (and read) were not as advanced as those today....I believe the older ones used a "wider" beam because burns rates were much slower.
If this is now being read in a newer CD/DVD reader/burner....it may be having problems with the way it was originally burnt.

Like I say, just a wild guess...hopefully someone can jump in here and correct me if I'm out to lunch.

Regardless of how it  happened, it looks like you have lost those files.

Regarding commercial vs "home burn....yes, my understanding is that the commercial ones  are "pressed"....but I doubt that they will last forever as there are many factors that could lead to data degradation.....one being "oxidization" of the layer itself.   That can happen when the edges are not properly sealed and exposed to air/moisture.

A final thought....I would suggest that using RW discs for back-up would not be the best approach in any event.....writes and re-writes just increase your chances for problems.

Just a small suggestion to others who "do" backup on CD, like myself. I often leave my photofiles on my computer for 6 months or even a year sometimes, and I try to do a backup every month or two. When I do I often am backing up files I have already saved on another CD, this way they are duplicated more then once. That way if a file or CD does go corrupt I have an extra copy or two. Once I have two or three copies of those files I feel pretty secure in deleting any files I don't think I'm going to use for awhile. My best work may have several more copies since I often leave them on the computer a lot longer then the "so-so" stuff.
I lost some important stuff in a crash a few years ago, so I guess I've gotten a little anal about backing up these days!!!! LOL :P

Hello,

There are some "rules" with backup and archiving.
Each medium has it own expectation of life. For example an hard drive even if not used grows old and finally dies slowly but surely.

So the first rule never delete our original files (except memory cards of course but before doing it follow these rules) :

1. Copy the original files on a heavy mass storage (hard drive)
2. After shooting, make a quick review your files with a graphic file browser you will already detect if some files are corrupted due for example in a bad memory read/write/transfer.
3. proceed with a BINARY check of the source and copy files. Personally I use WinMerge in binary mode (open-source project)
4. repeat once again step 1, 2 and 3 to another mass storage device.
5. Finally burn the files on CDs or DVD ( again binary check don't rely on your burn/copy program). and again backup.
6. Now you've got 5 proofed copy of your files ( 1 on memory cards 2 on hard drives and 2 or CD/DVD
7. The next shoot begins, you can erase the files on memory cards.
8. After about 12-18 months  copy your hard drives content on new and fresh hard drives and start again. BUT before doing that try to make a kind of cleaning of selection.
9. Welcome the world of redundancy. (Don't forget I'm originally an IT Specialist during the week and the day and sometimes photographer on week-ends and/or during the evenings)

Conclusion, never rely of 1 unique copy (and proof it) at least have 3 (proofed) copies of your original files and stored in different locations ( studio, home, work,  safe in bank ). And make copies on a regular basis.
Yes it costs a lot of money and time but don't forget storage capacities are growing and growing up and cost less and less and data transfer rates grows up.

Since I making (little) money with my pictures, loosing a "important" file may results in loosing money but worst of it loosing my "customers" confidence.

For your problem here try to find some file recovery programs, you can evaluate some of them before buying it but I think here that's a problem on the CD.

I hope this helps

Peace.

Aegy

Attached Link: http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/PhotoRec

Photorec doesn't have a nice Graphical User Interface, but it's very powerful software and it's easy to use. Just select the source drive, destination drive/folder to save the recovered images to, leave the rest at defaults, and let it run.

Hope this helps in someway.

Joe

I see that L8RDAZE had a very good suggestion,

someone recommended PhotoRec.

it's easy to use.
Just select the source drive, destination drive/folder to save the recovered images

Please keep in mind that the "source drive, destination drive" must be 2 different
physical drives ... otherwise, you could overwrite the images you are trying to save. 

--
Martin

I read with dismay that TomDart has a backup CD that is,

The opened image is the main one.  Damaged.  Totally not readable.

But why does the thumbnail (if I choose thumbnail in the folder view
instead of list, etc.) show what appears a full shot?

Let me try to answer that question first ... on the CD, do you see a file called
"thumbs.db"?  -- that is a small database of the image previews.  If you had
chosen to view thumbnails before the backup was made, that file was probably
created from a good copy of the image (JPEG).  BTW, in order to see the
thumbs.db file, you might have to change some folder settings ...
In Windows Explorer, click ... Tools -> Floder Options -> View -> Advanced Settings
-> Hidden files and folders CHECK Show hidden files and folders

Another question ... on that older PC, did you have some improper shutdowns? 
The way you know about those is that on the next boot, you see that Windows is
checking the disk (HDD) for errors.  We have all had that happen ... as a rule, did
you allow that process to complete, and did you allow it to correct each error? 

--
Martin

On the older pc I may have had perhaps one improper shutdown.  I am not certain.  If so, as with and even earlier pc which did have shutdown problems and is now junk piled, I would allow the disc check to complete.   I can't imagine having done differently.

Thanks for the tip on the thumbs.db file.        Tom.

@TomDart,

Here is something from the coincidence department ... after looking at
your sample damaged image, I remembered the message thread,
"Weird Problem With Camera" which gave, "Weird Problem" as the
image example. 

Note the banding ... the left-right image shift (missalignment)
... and the odd color shift that increases as we look down the image. 

I know this doesn't solve your problem ... but the two examples are similar. 

--
Martin

p.s., Are all of the images on the backup CD damaged in the same way? 

@TomDart,

I want to understand what has happened ... I have some questions ...

(1) How many images on the backup CD affected? (one, some, many, all?)

(2) What software are you using to view the affected images?
(image viewer, M$ PhotoEd, Photoshop, or even
Right-Click -> Properties -> Summary -> Advanced ... to see image information)
Does it work/fail in each; any error messages? 

(3) Any error messages when reading the CD?
... Or does it take a very long time to read the image? 

--
Martin

Attached Link: CD Data Recovery

I understand your situation is diff. But might be worth a shot. I believe you can try it as a trial still. Thats what i used.

I myself back up to DVD/CD. I am thinking of going to an external HD too.
-Bruce

All images are corrupted or not read.  I tried photoshop, paint shop pro, Windows picture viewer.   I may try the recovery software download.

I tried the recovery program.  Some images were salvaged but none of the ones in large file sizes.  Small images on the disc for eBay were recovered but the full size originals were not.  At least, the program did do its job.

A few .doc files were there and recovered just fine.  From the disc these showed "bad file path" and could not be opened.  There we have it!

Now, when the old pc can be started again I hope the originals are there as I believe..and readable. 

You folks have been of great help here.  Thanks.      Tom.

This is a very old shot used to sell the stuff on eBay.  LOL.     Tom.

I went through this same nightmare a few years ago...discovered that most of my data which had been backed up on CD-Rs was lost.

99% of the blank CDR & DVDR media sold in stores is basically junk and not at all suitable for long-term storage. But there IS quality media available if you know what to look for and search the stores or shop online. I spent a couple of months of my spare time reading threads at

http://club.cdfreaks.com/

and particularly the blank media section

http://club.cdfreaks.com/f33/

and learned how to identify the best blank media (my fav is still an 8X DVD+R YUDEN000-T02 manufactured in Japan by Taiyo Yuden available online under their own brand or in limited supply in a few stores in the US under the Sony brand...though almost all Sony media is now 16X manufactured outside Japan and  is totally different)...how to burn it (different burners burn different media BEST at different burn speeds), how to do quality tests of the burned disc (using something like Nero CD-DVD Speed, for example)...and how to store the burned discs (best in a dark location where temp & humidity don't vary much)...etc, etc...for starters...

I agree that using multiple backup regimens is the wisest choice...however, choosing the highest quality blank media, and optimally burning & storing it will significantly reduce the chance of data loss.

A lot of people will re-run the quality test scans every year or two to look for signs of disc deterioration...if they see anything remarkable, they'll reburn the disc well before any data is lost.

Thanks, cliff dweller. I find the info useful and am certain others will also benefit from your research.      Tom.

Now, TomDart(me) must eat a tiny bit of crow and still remain confused.  I took the disc to work and the Dell pc there opened the images with no problem.

Yet, still, this remains:   My burner/reader opens other discs from the same time period with no problems.  The suspect disc will not render complete images on my pc.  The recovery program did restore some small images which were not readable directly from the disc.

New discs record just fine and read as should.  So, what is going on?

Still, corrupted disc or not..or patially corrupted disc..or hardware or drivers..whatever, the info in this thread about backups should certainly be valuable to others who use no other forms of backup..even if the problem I am facing with the disc is unresolved as to true reasons why.

I will attempt to move the images from the disc from another pc if it reads the files to my pocket memory(2gb jump drive).   At least, with that, the images will be salvaged for better backup.

Thanks for all the fine input.       Tom.

Tom - I've had similar problems with writers - you write a disc on F, but it won't read on G. Another time it can only be read on the drive it was created on. Sometimes works on another machine, sometimes not. 

I've used expensive branded media and the disc hasn't lasted a year - yet theres no brand discs in my collection over 10 years old (when they cost 5 quid each and a bad burn was a BAD thing!).

My strategy is to mirror files onto another PC.  Also make a working CD copy which lives near the machine (DVD's are OK - but when screws up you lose more data in 1 hit). Make a master copy - check that on both drives on the 2 machines - now file it safely in an zippable archive quality disc wallet - put that in another room.  

If you work from home - keep a copy a important files like customer databases elsewhere - somewhere safe - say with a friend you can trust.  I've helped run a few shops and occsaionally someone will misplace a disc - normally  when the tax  returns are due!

For favourite pictures - get them printed at a decent lab. Always be nice to the person who prints your stuff as well!

Sounds paranoid - but when you meet someone (like my neighbour) who've just lost all their baby photos to a system crash, or recovered photos for someone who's just lost a realtive.   

The thumbnail probably comes from the jpg itself. The JPG format allows for thumnail previews to be embedded in the larger file. Unless there is an thumbs.db like MGD suggested.

As for backup. I store the originals on my computer and a copy on my server. The chance that they both fail at the same time is very slim (bar a devestating fire ofcourse).

@Tom;

Very interesting.....

The fact that you ARE able to perfectly read that CD on another machine tells me that the data is NOT corrupted on that CD....and it further leads me to what I had earlier thought was a possibilty...that being incompatibilty with earlier burners/readers and the newer ones.

So...I don't think the issue here is one of a CD "going bad".....rather, a hardware situation.

The CD could indeed be degrading. It could be the data is fading.. i.e. the track burned by the writer isn't like it used to be.. or in photo terms, it's beginning to lose contrast. It's very possible that one CD player is better at reading such a track than another player. This is exactly why Sony car stereo's in the 'old days' had problems reading CD-R media. They had a weaker laser than most which resulted in not enough light being reflected.

So reading the reading problems might just be an indicator of things to come. In other words, find a reader that will read the disc without problems and reburn it freshly. Or store it some other way.

Well, all is on hd now but I know the CD/DVD burner is getting a few years on it.  I will likely look for a good new one.

I tend to agree that the disc may have just enough gone for the burner not to read it correctly while another might see through. If that makes sense technically.  I would not know for certain and likely never will.

Still, this is good lessons for anyone who wants to only backup to a writeable disc.

@3DGuy...yes. fully agree with your thoughts.

@Tom...another question....did you use a felt pen...or put any writing on that CD at any time?

No, no writing on the CD at all.  Under a jewelers microscope I can see very slight scratches on the surface but that is all and not visible to the naked eye.  The rest is too small to see.

I have cleaned the laser lens in my burner, an Atapi DVD Dual 8x4x12 which I have believed is a pretty decent one.  That did not help at all.

What surprised me was the recovery software I downloaded and used was able to pick up a few small files which the player could not display cleanly.   Something at least was recoverable that way but most was not.  It took another burner/reader to get the stuff to my memory stick and then to the hd's.

I dont have the time unfortunately to read the entire thread, so I hope Im not repeating anything, anyone else may have mentioned... This has happened to me a good few times... and it has meant me losing a great deal of data because of it... When writing from drive to drive, or from drive to media (cd, dvd etc etc...) The data transfer is buffered... and sometimes you will encounter buffer over run... its suppsoed to sync the data transfer so its not reading faster than the writing, or visa versa... And what happens is the file header data gets corrupted... If you "view hidden and syatem files" you will notice there is a windows file named thumbnails.db... which is essentially the saved thumbnail file... which is why the thumbnail's all look fine, even though the file itself is corrupted... Unfortunately, I dont think there is a header repair application to my knowledge :(