yeah this looks better. is it normal that it looks like the colors are getting desaturated? when the angle changes.

Quote - yeah this looks better. is it normal that it looks like the colors are getting desaturated? when the angle changes.

I think so. That is Fresnel reflection - from a very low angle, white light is reflected directly - never changes color.

From a high angle, light enters the skin, gets absorbed by an electron, raising its energy, then it drops to a lower state and emits a photon of a particular color in a random direction. Thus diffuse light is colored, specular light is not.

when you use an IBL it getts better.

Quote - skin also reflects right? could we use an enviorment node to have some little reflection?

Sure. It would need to be blurry. Unless you want "shiny wet" skin.

well basicly you dont see for example the arm reflection on the skin. we would only need an enviorment map. you know for the shadows hehehe :)

Well that's what IBL is for - it defines the environmental lighting.

for example you are in a room. the light comes from the window., behind you. it will look blue on you. but the shadows are complete black. can we do this with IBL? i think it needs to be raytraced.

Oh, looks like you're doing some tinkering. The light response is looking good on your new shader. I guess I better hold off on more experimenting. But since I already did these: A comparison of VSS and the default shader on the Stratus texture for Hiro. I increased the diffuse node value and the IBL intensity slightly. In this render, the intense light was too much for the hair, so I lowered its diffuse value to .6 and got this result. The other settings are the same as what's listed on the previous image.

Attached Link: VSS Home Page

Who wants to try the new skin shader? I haven't put together all of Preview Release 2 yet. I'm just nervous about the new shader, so if you want to test it, that would help. It's very different.

The default tint is white (no change). I made it brighter, so lower lights can work better with other props.

I've zipped just the control prop. The link is on the VSS page. When the full PR2 package is ready, I will remove this zip file. It is labelled

VSS PR2 Control Prop (for testing)

It is not a full runtime. Its just the prop and icon. Move it to your VSS prop folder.

Quote - What does not work for you?
Are you able to load the prop?
Did you start the script?
Did the Buttons come?

Thanks for your reply!

When I load the prop it gives me the following error: "The File has a newer version number than expected. Poser will attempt to read it anyway." When I try to load the script, nothing comes up on the screen at all, no buttons or anything.

--R.

This is with a modified Indoor01 light set. I changed IBL to 40% and the two infinites to 50%.

Quote - When I load the prop it gives me the following error: "The File has a newer version number than expected. Poser will attempt to read it anyway." When I try to load the script, nothing comes up on the screen at all, no buttons or anything.

Still ambiguous. We've had reports of the buttons showing but not working. We've had reports of no buttons at all.

You also have not yet told me:

Which, PC or MAC?
Which Poser version, exactly? (As reported by Help/About Poser)
Which service release is installed?
Which figure are you using?
Is VSS in its own runtime, your main runtime, where?

Tell me your steps, like this: (what I did, what I see)

I opened the Window/Python Scripts.
I see the default Poser buttons.
I use File/Run Python Script - I select runtime/python/vss/vssMainButtons.py and hit ok.
It runs without any error message.
The default poser buttons are still there.

or:

I opened the Window/Python Scripts.
I see the default Poser buttons.
I use File/Run Python Script - I select runtime/python/vss/vssMainButtons.py and hit ok.
It runs without any error message.
The Python Scripts buttons change to Synchronize, Render, Designer....
I load the VSS prop - get a warning about version number - that's ok the prop loaded.
I click Synchronize.
Nothing happens.
I click Render.
It does not render.

looks good.

so those shaders have fake gamma correction?

Quote -
Still ambiguous. We've had reports of the buttons showing but not working. We've had reports of no buttons at all.

Sorry for the lack of discriptiveness...

Quote - You also have not yet told me:

Which, PC or MAC?
Which Poser version, exactly? (As reported by Help/About Poser)
Which service release is installed?
Which figure are you using?
Is VSS in its own runtime, your main runtime, where?

Tell me your steps, like this: (what I did, what I see)

I'm running: Windows Vista for the PC,
Poser 7 with service release 2.132.
I'm using DAZ3D's David.
I installed the script in my main runtime.

First, I loaded my character (I would've loaded the prop first then the character, but the character has all of the skin textures, etc. loaded already in a PZ3 file I have saved. Then I loaded the prop, when I got the following error "The File has a newer version number than expected. Poser will attempt to read it anyway." After that I tried to load the script, and nothing appeared on the screen at all.

Thanks. :)

--R.

Nothing is supposed to appear on the screen. It loads buttons into the Python Scripts window.

You have not talked about the Python Scripts window at all. So it seems to me you didn't make it visible.

Start Poser from scratch.

Click the menu item Window/Python Scripts or on the keyboard hit Ctrl-Shift-O

Observe the default buttons.

THEN - run the vssMainButtons.py file. It should change those buttons to VSS buttons.

THEN - load a figure.

THEN - hit the Render button in the Python Scripts Window.

See your figure the old way.

THEN - hit the Synchronize button. You should get a message window telling you what VSS did.

THEN - render.

See your figure the new way.
 

Attached Link: Can the Poser 7 Pro feature Gamma Correction be emulated in P7 or P6 with Python

Fake? No, it's real gamma correction. It has always been possible. It's just that nobody ever did it before me.

I started doing it on AMUCFS, but I did not have the technique quite correct. After reading about it all over the web, I understood the math and did it right in this shader.

If you'd like to see step by step how that is done in nodes, follow the link. I just posted a tutorial about it today.

That thread asked if it could be done in Python. The answer is no, but a shader setup can do it. And, in theory, a Python script could be written to go through all your materials and adjust them to do it. That would be tricky, however, to cover all the most advanced shaders.

Its much easier to just use VSS - I've built it into all the shaders.

Are you saying the shadows should be completely black but won't be, or that they should not be completely black but will be?

In any case, have a look here. I made a blue IBL from the left, and neutral color in all other directions.

Very dramatic!

This one does.

If you use a colored directional light, you get colored speculars, too.

Here is blue infinite + white infinite.

I must say... WOW! It certainly brings a "realism" glow to it, kind of translucent like skin is. I pretty much notice only two very minor things... One, the reflection seems to have gone from his eyes, and two the bump mapping on his lips seems a little heavy. I'm using Indoor Light 03 (not that that has much relevance to what I just posted LOL :))

Attached is a render using the script.

--R.

When you say the reflection has gone, do you mean you had one of those reflection maps on the eyes?

If so, yeah I didn't account for that in the shader. I'll be sure to look for one in the next version.

As for the bump - did you have a bump map on the figure? If so, you probably need to adjust.

See, everybody makes bump maps with different amplitudes. They don't just work because nobody agrees to a standard about how "high" to make the bumps. So everybody puts different numbers in the Bump strength setting.

You can easily fix it. Go into the material room. Select the VSS prop (usually its called VSS_1).

Select  the Template Skin material zone on the prop.

Change the Bump strength on the root node, just like you would always do.

Then run Synchronize to copy the new settings to all the zones. Render again.

Also - your render has no shadows.

My lights use raytraced shadows for maximum realism.

Please enable raytracing, 2 bounces, and enable shadows in your render options.

Yeah, it changed the reflection that I had before.

Oh, okay. That makes sense.  Thought it might be adajustable. Thanks for the tip on how to do so.

Oh, shoot. I totally forgot about that. blushes yet again I've been so busy working on this character, I'm used to working inside of that PZ3, I forgot this is from scratch. Excuse my ignorance LOL! I'll try that and post again.

--R.

There is a rim light from the left, however, that should be showing in his eye, like Simon here.

Try moving the lights a bit, or turn the figure towards that light. You should get a twinkle.

Indoor 01 has the main light straight on.

I rotated the figure as you suggested and now his eyes are twinkling. Thanks again! :) I have to admit, this is the most realistic looking node set up I've seen yet. I admire your hard work in putting this script and nodework together and for sharing this with us Renderosity members. :)

--R.

@RnRWoman: I like your character -- he reminds me of Bono from U2.

Hehe fivecat! Thank you! And You might be right in that assumption.... ;) whistles innocently

That's great! I'm so glad it's working for you.

I don't know if you read through this gigantic thread, but we've discovered that my lights are a bit too hot.

So I'm working on revised lights and shaders to match.

You may want to go back to the VSS home page and get the new shader (in the PR2 Control Prop) to try with your own lights and props. VSS is not supposed to make you redo all your shaders.

If you get the new control prop, experiment with decreasing the intensities on my light sets. Try IBL in the 30 to 40 range, and the infinites in the 40 to 55 range. At least for the indoor ones.

Your character looks really cool. I saw your previous posting of him in the Node Cult. I thought the shader you had already was interesting, although a teeny bit too plastic-shiny. What were you using before?

One small crit - that guy has some big-ass lacrimals! You could put a raisin in there. You might want to make them a little less wide. :)

Attached Link: http://www.magazine.org/Events_and_Seminars/Conferences/American_Magazine_Conference/covers2006/RollingStoneCeleb.jpg

Ah, okay. No problem! Before we got this to working, I downloaded the new control prop. But thank you for bringing that to my attention! :)

Cool! I'll try that. I'm also trying different light sets I have. I have to admit, this script makes any light set look even better! Usually I have trouble switching lights, because the character ends up looking washed out for some reason.

Thanks, I'm glad you like the character! I've been doing quite a lot of alterations on him since then. I agree with you about the plastic-shiny look. I've been using face_off's realism script, but it's probably me not setting it up right that is giving off that plastic look.

LOL! @ the lacrimal comment. Normally I'd agree with you, but I'll post a picture of the person I'm trying to recreate. As you can see he has really HUGE lacrimals in the picture too LOL! Unless you mean up and down as supposed to smaller from side to side.

--R.

Yes I mean up and down.

Thanks!

--R.

Much better! Nice work.

You have ZBrush eh?

Ok then.

Now - this is fun - I don't have to do anything - you need to

1. Fix the cheek creases. The right cheek crease starts at the middle of the nostril and arcs down all the way to the mouth line. The left cheek crease is straighter and shorter and starts at the top of the nostril - yours is already close to that.

2. More eye bagginess, especially the right eye. There should be two distinct eye-bag lobes.

3. You need a couple creases between the eyebrows.

4. The top-rear parts of the ears should bend forward a bit.

5. The tip of the nose needs a little chiseling, sort of a distorted hexagon shape, less so above than below.

6. The "subduction" of the upper eyelid is close. However, the arc of the fold on the upper eyelid in your figure forms an S shape (curves up at the outermost part.) His don't do that - they curve down all the way. And his upper eyelashes compress the upper eyelid a big, making the crease more distinct.

Great work, though! I knew who it was right away.

If you make a displacement map for his face with zbrush, my shader will use it. That way you can cut those creases really detailed instead of trying to force the geometry to go that way.

Thanks!

Yep, I have ZBrush. :) LOL @ your comment.

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll try to get those right. Some mods I'm doing are their own seperate morphs (for example, the chin cleft is a seperate morph entirely from the face.)

I'll post the results as soon as I tweak it.

Thanks again! I'm glad he looks at least recognizeable. ;) LOL

--R.

Quote - If you make a displacement map for his face with zbrush, my shader will use it. That way you can cut those creases really detailed instead of trying to force the geometry to go that way.

It's funny you should say that because I was just thinking and wondering if a displacement map might work. However I have no experience with displacement maps whatsoever, especially in ZBrush. I'm mostly experienced with just morphing in there. Could you point me in the right direction to learn more about it or put up a brief summary on how to do that?

Hmm - sorry I have no experience with zbrush.

But once you have the displacement map, load it into an Image_map on his face material and connect it to the displacement channel. VSS will take care of the rest.

Remember this, in Poser displacement, black is no change, white is maximum lift from original surface.

To get depressions, we must subtract something from the map. For example, if you make a white map and subtract 1 (using a math node) then you get no change. But darker parts will become depressions.

If you design so that mid gray is means no change, we subtract .5 from the map in Poser.

How to make such a map in zbrush and export it as an image - can't help. I'm almost sure I've seen discussion of this in the Poser forum. Do a search for the words zbrush and displacement in this forum.

Ah okay, sort've like an alpha mask in a way, but not "cutting out" anything.

I suppose one can use a graphics editor, open the face texture for your character, then make a layer over it filled with black, and draw the "wrinkles" in white and it would work the same way? Or the ZBrush way sounds cool too.

--R.

BB what are the implications here for animation?

As a character rotates or moves through a scene and/or as a light source moves or brightens, will the VSS shaders drive correct values for each frame?

::::: Opera :::::

Just read about this shader and tried it today. Very fine results so far, congrats bagginsbill. A few questions left though, would there be a solution for hair painted on the skin, head hair and body hair always turns red with the skin after the shader is applied, a lot of textures come with hair already on the texture. And why is the bump value touched at all by the script, I mean, almost everyone uses his own bump settings, I for instance often use the color texture also as bump with negative amount, and displacement also always have very different values. If not untouched, an input dialoge would be cool.
And some skins uses transmaps, ok, it's easy to add them later, but I know that Face_Off for instance could fix it within the script.
Otherwise I appreciate that we can get very fine results in P7 even without using 7.2.

Yes it will animate perfectly. My system is different from face_off's realism kits. I have implemented everything in the shader. The script has nothing to do with it. All the script is doing is copying the shader to the multiple zones and plugging in texture maps.

Once the shaders are set up on the figure, you don't need VSS any more. You can just save the figure or materials as you usually would and use them whenever with any lights.

You've seen by now an enormous number of different lighting situations. That was my objective on this, that the shaders are versatile, they don't blow up with IBL or super strong lights or glow in the dark, and that they work on all your figures, not just a couple of them.

*would there be a solution for hair painted on the skin, head hair and body hair always turns red with the skin after the shader is applied, a lot of textures come with hair already on the texture.

Yeah I ran into this with specular as well. Few texture setups include a specular map, yet your really need one if you have painted on hair. What I did was to set up the skin shader to look for a specular map and, failing that, to use the color map instead. Now this doesn't REALLY work for all cases. If your painted on hair is black, it works fine. If it is blonde, it won't make any difference - you'll still get specular on the hair.

If you're going to have things drawn on your color map that are not skin, then it means you need a shader that actually represents more than one type of material on the same zone. The proper way to handle such a thing is to have other maps to go with the color map that identify those parts that are NOT skin. In other words, if you have hair, underwear, and mud splatters on the figure's color map, than you should also have a mask that identifies what parts are exposed as skin. Otherwise, the shader will shade those non-skin areas.

So we should set up the shader to support that. These are in my plans for more advanced shaders.

However, I gotta ask - if you have painted-on hair on your skin color map - why do you bother with a realism shader at all? Why don't you just paint the whole color map yourself, SSS, specular, everything? LOL

*And why is the bump value touched at all by the script, I mean, almost everyone uses his own bump settings, I for instance often use the color texture also as bump with negative amount, and displacement also always have very different values. If not untouched, an input dialoge would be cool.

The bump value is touched precisely because that is the point of VSS - to make all 22 skin bump values be set from 1 place. The shader's initial value is a "hopeful" default. If you need the bump to be .001 and not .003, then you should set it in VSS. But I guess there are situations where this should be under your control, so you can decide.

Honestly this is another example of where I'm desperately in need of a proper user interface toolkit, so I can give you a bunch of options like this in an easy-to-understand dialog.

By the way, if you're using the color map, negated, as a stand-in for a bump map, you would do better to just let VSS supply a 100% procedural bump map. Quite often, the negated color map looks terrible.

*And some skins uses transmaps, ok, it's easy to add them later, but I know that Face_Off for instance could fix it within the script.

*I think there is a level of sophistication that will come with time allowing us to address that sort of thing. The intention of VSS is to support the application of complicated shaders to existing figures. You understand that VSS itself has no knowledge of the shaders themselves, right?

Face_off's scripts actually write the shaders. My VSS does NOT write shaders. It COPIES shaders. YOU write the shader. The fact that I've provided some initial basic shaders for skin, eyes, teeth, etc. here actually has little to nothing to do with VSS, per se. I happen to be the author of VSS and a couple of good shaders. The fact that they come in one package is a coincidence.

So if you want to build a generic shader that understand how to use a transmap for some purpose - you go right ahead, and VSS will distribute that shader to all the skin zones of any figure for you. See what I mean?

It was originally my intention to provide VSS for free, and to CHARGE you for these specific shaders you see in this thread.

But, I've decided that's not fun. I will charge for something, someday.