...queue Queen's song
"I'm going slightly mad...it finally happened..."

US dollars:
$5.08 for super
$4.98 for middle grade
$4.88 for regular

It's just nukin futs!

That's cheap! It's $5.48 per gallon here for Regular gas!

damn and I was gonna complain about our $2.09 per litre.... hmmm... hang on that a US gallon right... calculator, calculator... 3.78541178 x $2.09 = $NZ7.91 x $NZ exchange rate to $US = $US5.93... geeeezus... I'm biking from now on!!!

I was going to say 'is that US or Canadian'... but I went to look it up and noticed that the exchange rate is right around 1:1

Well, to look at it on the good side, having been laid off - I don't have to drive much.

We're not quite that bad, yet ... $4.06 for unleaded, $4.17 for midgrade, $4.47 for premium.

Guess that's why I'm looking for a hybrid (even though I so love my Durango, I can't afford to drive it any more).

This is ridiculous!

Quote - I was going to say 'is that US or Canadian'... but I went to look it up and noticed that the exchange rate is right around 1:1

Well, to look at it on the good side, having been laid off - I don't have to drive much.

You, too?  Been a couple of weeks for me and no job forthcoming.  Been out nearly every day looking but it's hard with the gas prices.  I try to bus whenever I can.

Quote - damn and I was gonna complain about our $2.09 per litre.... hmmm... hang on that a US gallon right... calculator, calculator... 3.78541178 x $2.09 = $NZ7.91 x $NZ exchange rate to $US = $US5.93... geeeezus... I'm biking from now on!!!

It's about $1.37 per litre.  There are 4 litres per US Gallon.

The Canadian dollar is nearly at par with the US right now, but lately it's been flucuating by 10ths of a point and 3 cents.

And we make the stuff down here in New Zealand... we got stock piles of petrol from here to eternity... so who's making all the money.. and why?

complain .... we pay recalculated about $7.50 a gallon ...
so why are the people in the US complaining :woot:

Chris

Oh please, stop complaining.... In Europe we pay $9 per gallon for regular!!!

Welcome to the future. My friend in Germany says petrol is over $8.60 USD (5.60eur) a gallon there.

Quote - Oh please, stop complaining.... In Europe we pay $9 per gallon for regular!!!

HA ! :woot:
 Now that will show em

One litre regular is 1.54 EURO in Germany. Round about $9.00 per gallon. And still mutch more big cars than bikes here :)

Venezuela has the cheapest (something like 12 cents a gallon) followed by many of the Middle Eastern countries. People here in the U.S. have not experienced the price of fuel the rest of the world has over the past few years we have dodged that bullet  but now it's come home to roost.

Quote - I'm biking from now on!!!

hehehe, I think there's going to be a lot more of that around here before too long.

It's weired seeing the gas prices go from aroumd $3.50 per gallon to over $5 in just three months!

I'm having flashbacks to having grown up in one of the old communist countries with economies that were falling apart, where you ran out to buy groceries the day you got paid, because a week later your paycheck would be worth only half of what it was. Yuck!

The bad thing around here is that there isn't much within walking distance!!!

According to some economists, the subsidies that keep gas
artificially low in China, India and Venezuela are a big part of the problem.
As China and India get richer and drive more cars, they are free
to use far more gas than they would want to use at uncontrolled
prices.   This is starting to cost their governments too much, and
they are starting to remove the subsidy.  This will slow their growth and
improve the situation for the rest of the world.  (somewhat!)

You've got a perfect storm:

Environmentalists and others pressuring the world to stop burning hydrocarbons.
vs.
The entire world population wanting more energy, with burning hydrocarbons the easiest, direct route.

Guess what, there are fewer 'undeveloped nations' any more; they are developing like mad and good for them.

When there is a stupendous new demand for a commodity, but corporations are barred from filling it, you get an explosion in price. It's not a mystery.

Price here in Southern California is about 4.00/4.50/4.75  US Gal.

::::: Opera :::::

Quote - You, too?  Been a couple of weeks for me and no job forthcoming.  Been out nearly every day looking but it's hard with the gas prices.  I try to bus whenever I can.

I'm sorry to hear that :(
For me it's been almost three months now.  I know most engineers around here and have exhausted all the leads I know, at least couple of hundred of them. Also working with head hunters and searching through related fields - for reduced pay... and trying to get my little business back up off the ground.. In last 20 years I haven't been out of work for a single day - even through the last recession.

There are some job prospects in other states, but I can't get my family to want to move... plus, we owe more on the house then it's woth at the moment, since the house proces dropped abt 30% in our area.... so we really can't make any kind of a move without ruining whatever is left of our credit rating or without filing for bankruptcy.

I'll keep my fingers crossed, hope my business will revive. I had one little two day project last month. If I can get about five of those a month, the bills will be paid.

Anyway... I'm ranting... bleh.

Quote - Oh please, stop complaining.... In Europe we pay $9 per gallon for regular!!!

But we don't have the public transit system Europe has.

I'm just glad i have my scooter at 60mpg.

Quote - Oh please, stop complaining.... In Europe we pay $9 per gallon for regular!!!

In most of Urban Europe things are built a lot closer together, so you don't have to use up six liters of gas just to get groceries, or half a tank to get to work and back. 

I grew up over there so I know how things work there. Merely using a currency conversion is like comparing apples and oranges when it comes to comparing value for value. In most of europe public transportation is eally good, and a person in a major metropolitan area can live and work without ever owning a car.

I lived it - even in one of the poorer Euro countries at that. You can get a monthly transportation pass, and hop on a bus or a tram or a train... there's one almost every 10 minutes in every major commuting direction. You can get just about everywhere without buying a drop of gas for yourself.

Here, you can't get anywhere without a car. Things are made and built so you have to depend on your car. Then they stick it up to you, and leave you with no alternative.
Grocery store - 3 miles. Work - 15-40 miles away. College for the kids, 15 miles away each - also no public transportation available for them.

Here in Quebec ,some individuals and some gas garages from different banners have been officially accused this week by  an government agency to complote among them for putting high the gas price during recent years  in  3 regions

Free market and supply-demand free ride  They said hum hum !!!!!

The job I just got laid off from, which I've had since I moved to Arizona, was 22 miles from my apartment.  The closest grocery is 4 miles away, and I live in the middle of the state capital.

True, I have the bus and I do have my truck but I can't afford to drive my truck right now because it would take an entire week's unemployment check to fill it up so I depend on the bus which doesn't go all the places I want.

And for those of you who say it's easy ... try bringing home $100 worth of groceries on a bus.

Keep up the hunt, Connie, I'm doing the same.  My son and daughter-in-law live here and I'd hate to leave but if I can get a job elsewhere, I'm outta here.  I can pack up virtually everything I own in my truck and a trailer and be on the road in about 3 days.

Attached Link: http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35304/118/

Someone want to give me 30K?

lol

300 miles per gallon = 127.543112 kilometers per liter

Quote - Here, you can't get anywhere without a car. Things are made and built so you have to depend on your car. Then they stick it up to you, and leave you with no alternative.
Grocery store - 3 miles. Work - 15-40 miles away. College for the kids, 15 miles away each - also no public transportation available for them.

That's it? ;)

From my house, the nearest 'store' is 7 miles.  Thank Zeus, that I don't have to drive to work (home office).

I don't mind the Europeans rolling the eyes here - but realize that this is destroying the US economy (trucking, airlines, jobs, manufacturing, etc.).  Ya, the economy on which the rest of the planet depends.  If the US fails, as I told a friend, start learning Chinese or converting to Islam.  I already have my pile of stones and conforming blue uniform... ;D

And, to be a bit smug here myself.  Nyah, nyah!  Didn't I warn everyone about this impending economic disaster a year or two ago - and noone believed me.  You can't run two wars against the area where you get most of your fuel and expect the status quo.  Wars are damned expensive (monetarily and in people) and fighting with and around the guys who supply your fuel is insane.  Time for Plan B.

Yup- same situation kuroyume- I'm out in the sticks too- and you wern't the only one warning.

Plan B- see my link above.

60 MPG and it looks cool.  Approx. $9000.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4252304.html

The day is coming (perhaps soon) when vehicles like this one might be the standard, rather than "exotic".

Quote - Oh please, stop complaining.... In Europe we pay $9 per gallon for regular!!!

While you may be paying more, You are also earning a higher cost of living wage as well. With that factored in, it's about the same.

Quote - > Quote - Here, you can't get anywhere without a car. Things are made and built so you have to depend on your car. Then they stick it up to you, and leave you with no alternative.

Grocery store - 3 miles. Work - 15-40 miles away. College for the kids, 15 miles away each - also no public transportation available for them.

That's it? ;)

From my house, the nearest 'store' is 7 miles.  Thank Zeus, that I don't have to drive to work (home office).

Unfortunately, neither are really a 'walking distance'... well, I could walk three miles pretty easily.... but both ways with a load of grocery bags... much much harder.
Plus, when you have to walk to a grocery store, like we did back home, you would go to the store at least once a day. Three miles (which is about an hour walk one way) is rather time-prohibitive trip to make once a day.

I don't live urban at all, I can get a monthly transit pass but it's a lot more expensive then driving my car. I have to drive 10 miles or so to get to work, since public transport will not bring me there at all.

*While you may be paying more, You are also earning a higher cost of living wage as well. With that factored in, it's about the same.

*I've lived long enough in both Europe and the US to know that that statement is very incorrect. I have to feed my family from my salary which is around $1500 each month. From that, over $700 goes straight to my rent. Still haven't paid any bills at all or done grocery and cothed my kids.

*I don't mind the Europeans rolling the eyes here - but realize that this is destroying the US economy (trucking, airlines, jobs, manufacturing, etc.).  Ya, the economy on which the rest of the planet depends.

*Your still living in the past..... over 70% from what I use at home states: MADE IN CHINA! The only US made item in my house is my drivers license and an expired passport. All of the other stuff has been manufactured in Europe or Asia. My gas comes from Russia, my oil from the middle east, ny car was made in Japan. Even my computer is made from parts manufactured in Europe or Asia.

The only thing from the US around here are some movies and a number of software applications that originated in the US.

Our economy doesn't depend on the US anymore, it hasn't done so for a long time now. It just that we Europeans are still STUPID enough to still allow our lives to be ruled by Wall Street, but I'm sure one of these days even the dow jones and nasdaq will not influence us anymore.

The high oil prices has an influence on almost every major economy not only on the US one.

*Unfortunately, neither are really a 'walking distance'... well, I could walk three miles pretty easily.... but both ways with a load of grocery bags... much much harder.
Plus, when you have to walk to a grocery store, like we did back home, you would go to the store at least once a day. Three miles (which is about an hour walk one way) is rather time-prohibitive trip to make once a day.

*Get some good bicycles, I do all of the shopping for a whole family once a week with the bike. It's amazing how much you can carry on a bike and it's mileage is great also :-)

For what it's worth - US gas prices have finally caught up to inflation. We got lucky throughout the 1990's thanks to Saudi Arabia selling a metric crapload of crude to us for next-to-nothing as repayment for Desert Storm (to pay off incurred debts). The trailing-off of the glut, combined with recent increased demands from China and India, have caused the sharp upswings we're seeing today.

I've been expecting this to happen for a hell of a long time. Canada and the EU end up paying more because they're taxed more heavily on their fuel. It's finally become an impetus to do two things:

1. get people to start thinking about fuel consumption, and to find ways to address it. The gas prices --that is, the free market-- have done more to endanger the 40-acres-of-sheet-metal Escalade type of vehicle than any whining from leftist quarters. I've long ago decided to take the rails to work, and our main vehicle at home is a 32 mpg one I'd bought last year, not the old 15mpg Jeep Wrangler (which I only use when I have to haul something).

2. make alternative fuels and energy sources viable again. We literally have enough energy in North America (through various means) to keep everyone here supplied for one hell of a long time (at least 200 years if you combine all elements of oil, coal, nuclear, solar, biofuel, wind, water, etc etc...) If the world at large shifts to alternate fuels quickly enough, then the whole Middle-East thing that everyone tiptoes around eventually becomes moot point. When the OPEC nations experience dwindling income, they lose power and influence. Already, there's credible talk that the mideast may not be able to supply what they have been, and will likely dry up in 50 years or less. No big, really - other fields are actually plentiful, and located well out of reach from any OPEC member country. Meanwhile, we can (finally!) start moving away from the stuff as an energy source... permanently.

Me - I'm nosing around for ways to convert the Jeep's engine to natural gas (or perhaps propane, or perhaps both)... should drive down the costs nicely. I can keep using my pubTrans monthly pass nonetheless...

/P

Yup been riding the Harley a lot lately, and I have a little economy car. We still pay $1000/mo just on fuel. My husband has a band and drags the stage around with our duelly and I use the smaller truck to get hay. Bout ready to send him to work on a donkey. The only good thing is our PGE is way down because we don't need an air conditioner where we live. He uses the Rav to go to work but we live about an hour and a half from his job. Sorry to hear about you folks that are out of work, has happened to three of our close friends, and one couple had to declare bankruptcy even though they were the people I would have thought would ever have to do that.

*While you may be paying more, You are also earning a higher cost of living wage as well. With that factored in, it's about the same.

I've lived long enough in both Europe and the US to know that that statement is very incorrect. I have to feed my family from my salary which is around $1500 each month. From that, over $700 goes straight to my rent. Still haven't paid any bills at all or done grocery and cothed my kids.

That sounds like an amount that is way below median income for Europe.  When I was making only $1500 a month, I definately didn't choose to live where the rent is $700. I'd get a share rental with roommates that is more in my price range.

However, your individual situation doesn't appear to be typical household income across a lot of western europe. It soulds a lot lower.

I looked up Engineering wages in europe with costs of living, vs engineering wages here in the US, vs the cost of living, and in most places I would not be any worse off, even with higher gas proces.  Places like England and Germany, a comparable wage would definately afford me a slightly higher standard of living then in the US.... (provided I was working)

*That sounds like an amount that is way below median income for Europe.  When I was making only $1500 a month, I definately didn't choose to live where the rent is $700. I'd get a share rental with roommates that is more in my price range.

Try that when married and having 3 kids ;-)

I'm not complaining though, I'm not in debt and we're even putting a little aside each month. But one has to make choices. Not using the car for everything, but using bicycles instead saves a lot of money. We're not renting movies and such, nor is the tv on all day. Not taking baths, but shower (not too logn either) instead. We don't shop at the most expensive supermarkets and we go to the market once a week for fresh produce, a lot cheaper (and often better quality) then in the stores.

It's amazing how all of the little things add up in the end and you find that half of the money and luxury you thought you needed you don't need at all.

Not buying every poser content item I see helps a lot also. Keeping a budget when it comes to buying content is a great help. But even with my income I'm still able to spent some on Poser content (and buy Poser upgrades), but I make sure I don't overspent or waste money on items that look great but will never be used at all.

*That sounds like an amount that is way below median income for Europe. 

*I wish it was true. According to the most recent official studies, the median income in Europe is 30% less then in the US. There may be jobs where you get paid more, but looking at the broad scale of things, the income is 30% less here then it is in the US.

As for my personal situation, it was by choice. I'm only working part-time and I do that on purpose. We can live from the income we do have and by not working full-time I have time to spent with kids and wife. It's a choice,a bit less luxury, but a bit more quality when it comes to family life and for us that is far more important.

Living in Arizona, which is the middle of the Mojave desert, we use a lot of solar here.  My apartment uses solar for electricity and natural gas for my stove and water heater.  My electric bill each month is less than $50 and that's for my lights, refrigerator, computer, tv's, stereo, the basic stuff so that's not so bad. 

I do drive a 2002 Dodge Durango, so I'm guilty of owning an SUV, but it's got a high performance fuel injection system that allows me 22 mpg in the city and 28 mpg on the freeway. 

Still, unless I absolutely have to take the truck, I use the bus a lot.  There are, of course, places the bus doesn't go or doesn't go efficiently.  Before I got laid off and was taking the bus to work and back I would have to leave 2 hours before start of shift to get to work on time.  The bus took 1 hr 45 min for a trip that would take 20 minutes by car.  I have a 2-yr pass so it doesn't cost me anything to ride the bus but I still take my truck out when I have to.

Quote-"Me - I'm nosing around for ways to convert the Jeep's engine to natural gas (or perhaps propane, or perhaps both)... should drive down the costs nicely. I can keep using my pubTrans monthly pass nonetheless..."

Not really that cheap to run propane as it requires more of it and it's about the same price or more than gasoline in most places. Natural Gas is cheaper usually but only available in certain areas. As far as gas prices catching up with inflation, why are the Saudi's saying there's no reason for the price going up that high? Barrel prices are closing lower. I look at it this way. When the realestate market crashed the investors all ran to oil futures. They're doing the same thing to oil they did to the realestate market. Running the price up until it is unrealistically higher than it's actual value and more expensive than folks can pay before the bubble eventually bursts from the economic burden and there will be a surplus of oil because everyone in in transportation just about had to file chapter eleven. The price jumped to quick and the economy didn't have time to adjust.

Which equals the same thing as your grandparents only paid a nickel for a loaf of bread, but they could pay their rent and buy food with a paycheck of about fifty dollars a week. I can't even fill up with that now.

yeah..Europeans pay way more in taxes on gas...wait...they pay way more taxes on everything...;) nothin's free...

$3.95/gal here, if you know where to look. I live 34 miles from work, because it's the only place that pays decent (RTP NC), and conversely, the only affordable places to live start about this far back..;)

I know there's a lot of "I'm so happy, the US is FINALLY paying $5 a gallon. We should have done that years ago" crowd. Sad fact is, we're the ones buying everything from everyone. So if we wind up spending all our money on gas, that means that much less for anything else. I'm sure we're due a slice of humble pie, but it's going to hurt everyone else's exports. That's interdependence for you...;)

Quote - *That sounds like an amount that is way below median income for Europe.  When I was making only $1500 a month, I definately didn't choose to live where the rent is $700. I'd get a share rental with roommates that is more in my price range.

Try that when married and having 3 kids ;-)

I'm not complaining though, I'm not in debt and we're even putting a little aside each month. But one has to make choices. Not using the car for everything, but using bicycles instead saves a lot of money. We're not renting movies and such, nor is the tv on all day. Not taking baths, but shower (not too logn either) instead. We don't shop at the most expensive supermarkets and we go to the market once a week for fresh produce, a lot cheaper (and often better quality) then in the stores.

It's amazing how all of the little things add up in the end and you find that half of the money and luxury you thought you needed you don't need at all.

Not buying every poser content item I see helps a lot also. Keeping a budget when it comes to buying content is a great help. But even with my income I'm still able to spent some on Poser content (and buy Poser upgrades), but I make sure I don't overspent or waste money on items that look great but will never be used at all.

*That sounds like an amount that is way below median income for Europe. 

*I wish it was true. According to the most recent official studies, the median income in Europe is 30% less then in the US. There may be jobs where you get paid more, but looking at the broad scale of things, the income is 30% less here then it is in the US.

As for my personal situation, it was by choice. I'm only working part-time and I do that on purpose. We can live from the income we do have and by not working full-time I have time to spent with kids and wife. It's a choice,a bit less luxury, but a bit more quality when it comes to family life and for us that is far more important.

I stand corrected, but still, the difference is apples and oranges when it comes to gas prices for the most part. Europe has more public transit options than the US over all which gives you options that we just do not have when it comes to getting where we need to go. Your $9 a gallon can get you where you need to go with more public transit options and shorter distances as a whole than our $5 a gallon and longer distances having to be covered.

You also have health care that's available to more people over all than we do. Doesn't mean it's better mind you, but you do have more coverage for the population as a whole. Our higher incomes get spent on higher insurance and medical coverage so I still think it's pretty much an even wash when you take it all into account.

Quote - Europe has more public transit options...

Wish it were still true. Twenty years ago, I could take the train to the university, first a 5 minute walk to the train station, 40 minutes by train, then a 10 minute bicycle ride.  Less than an hour overall, and the trains ran every 30 minutes, very reliably.
Nowadays, this same trip takes over 2 hours, IF the trains are on time. One train every hour, instead of one every 30 minutes. The costs - even with gas prices as high as they are, my ecomomy car is cheaper (almost 40 mpg), and even with the traffic jams I can get there faster than by public transport.
I do NOT live in a remote rural area, I live close to one of the major cities of the Netherlands (Arnhem) and the university is located in another major city (Utrecht). Distance: 50 km (about 30 miles).

As for the differences in income, in the Netherlands incomes are more evenly spread out. Not that many multimillionaires here, but not that many abject poor either. It's not as easy to find a job as in the US, but it's not as easy to lose one either. Social security is more encompassing, but is paid for by high taxes.
My main gripe about the Dutch economic situation is the enormous amount of money and time wasted on administration and an absurd belief in free market economics everywhere, especially in areas where free market economics just don't work. Health insurance, for example - the insurance companies are required by law to cover a precisely defined broad range of treatments, so wha't is there to compete with? Coverage? It's all the same, by law. Insurance premiums? Not much difference there, low premiums would bankrupt the insurance companies. Extra insurances are the only options to be different from the next company, the only real competition option. And what happens? A large percentage of the insurance premiums are spent on advertising, not on paying for medical treatment. Another thing that happens: doctors and other medical practitioners have to negotiate contracts with lots of different insurance companies, and have to do bucketloads of administration (a friend of mine told me over 30% of his time is used for administration, instead of less than 10% under the previous system). This time is taken away from what doctors want to do - medical treatment. Medical care is getting far more expensive than it used to be or needs to be.

Alas, the US don't have a monopoly on idiots in the government....

Quote -
*That sounds like an amount that is way below median income for Europe. 

*I wish it was true. According to the most recent official studies, the median income in Europe is 30% less then in the US. There may be jobs where you get paid more, but looking at the broad scale of things, the income is 30% less here then it is in the US.

Can you give me some links that substantiate that, because what I was looking at shows just the opposite. Especially in England, Germany and Netherlands where a lot of the responses in this thread seem to be coming from.

If you look at Purchasing Power parity charts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity
you'll see that most of the Europe has a higher level then the US - with exception of California.

I was looking at the average income for an Engineer in Germany for example, and it appears to be around 5000-6000 EU/mo  That translates to $8000-$10,000 in US dollars, or between $100,000 to $120,000 per year.

Now, look at average Engineering salaries in US:
http://www.seaint.org/salarysurvey.htm
http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/ECE.pdf

Note that the average engineering salaries, are in $60,000-70,000 range.
Considering those numbers, If the prices of goods were the same in the US as they are in Germany, people could afford approximately 40% less then in Germany.

Gas at the military base in San Diego is cheapest at $4.28 for 87 octane.  It now costs $60 to fill my VW. Luckily work is only five minutes away so a full tank lasts two weeks.

We're experiencing peak oil; from this point forward gas will become more expensive as supplies dwindle. This wouldn't  be so bad except our entire economy (USA) is based on petroleum and as it becomes more expensive everything else does too because it costs more to ship goods. I know you guys all know this; I'm just genuflecting.

I'm all for solar and nuclear power - the raw materials are harvested from ordinary dirt; the disposal's a b*tch but I say we shoot it into outer space - save petrol for airplanes and plastic - ooh I love plastic.

I love the guys who say that solar power isn't practical. They're friggin stupid. All life on Earth is supported by solar power and it makes me really mad because there is an abundance of (potential) solar power in Southern California.

Quote - > Quote - Europe has more public transit options...

Wish it were still true.

Well there are always going to be exceptions to any situation. Yours and Ailkema's sound like exceptions to me. I live in a metropolitan area but I still have some seriously long distances to drive and our public transit just isn't up to par. Here in St. Louis, we're way behind Chicago when it comes to public transit. Our MetroLink train system is still relatively new and doesn't cover nearly enough area to be considered usable by everyone. We have busses, but they're nothing to write raves about.

I am just glad I have my 49cc Scooter for 50+ MPG for going to the stores, and a few medical appointments and such. It's not highway rated though so I still have to take my car to many places.

Having lived and worked in St. Louis, MatrixWorks, I can agree with some of the things you say but the transit system in St. Louis is far and away better than it is here in Phoenix and we've got more people.  We don't have a light rail system yet and the bus system is just plain dreadful.  We've got buses here than only run every hour and the other ones run at either 15 min schedules during work hours only or at 30 min schedules.  The more populated lines drop to half-hour schedules at 6 pm and all the buses stop running at 8 pm on Sundays which is really stupid.  Most of the time I plan on at least 45 minutes to an hour just to go 5 miles because it's a two bus ride.

Attached Link: Naro Car

I'd love one even if gas prices were low.

Quote - Having lived and worked in St. Louis, MatrixWorks, I can agree with some of the things you say but the transit system in St. Louis is far and away better than it is here in Phoenix and we've got more people.  We don't have a light rail system yet and the bus system is just plain dreadful.  We've got buses here than only run every hour and the other ones run at either 15 min schedules during work hours only or at 30 min schedules.  The more populated lines drop to half-hour schedules at 6 pm and all the buses stop running at 8 pm on Sundays which is really stupid.  Most of the time I plan on at least 45 minutes to an hour just to go 5 miles because it's a two bus ride.

I'm not comparing St. Louis Transit to Phoenix Transit. Silly. You're only proving my point that American Public Transit is way behind Europes in many of our metropolitan areas. I've BEEN to Phoenix! I agree  they're worse off than St. Louis in that regards. I think the only major metropolitan areas in the US that have mass transit comparable to European Mass Transit Systems are New York, Chicago and LA.

You have to include San Diego in that list, too.  They have one of the best transit systems I've seen apart from New York.  Seattle has a good one, too.  I love the Chicago system and LA is really neat.

The main reason I include San Diego is that you can, literally go from the Mexican border to LA using the transit system because the transfers work between San Diego, Orange and LA counties.

The New York subway is comparable to the Parisian Metro. I've been to both cities and used those systems. I've never been to London, so I can't compare the underground, nor have I been to Chicago or LA.
I really liked the NY subway. Fast, and you never have to wait for more than a couple of minutes before the next train arrives. Subway and walking are the best way to get around in NY, I wouldn't want to drive a car in there.
But not every major city in the EU has a subway system comparable to Paris or New York.. In fact, only a few have something as extended as that. In the Netherlands, only Rotterdam has a decent subway system, Amsterdam's is halfway decent, and the other cities just don't have it at all. Tramways - Amsterdam's and The Hague's are OK, Utrecht's is rudimentary, and the other cities just don't have any at all.
Buses: excruciatingly slow.
Railways: used to be good, but right now prices are soaring and quality of service is way, way down.

In short, Europe has a few places in which public transport is good. So does the US. But in many places it's barely usable, and in quite a few places  - even in a country as small as the Netherlands - there's nothing at all.

Ah, dammit! Last year I put a down payment on a smart car ($16,950) and I have to wait till next Spring for its delivery. It only gets me 41 MPG highway. Maybe I should take my deposit back and get that 300 mpg car.

Quote - You have to include San Diego in that list, too.  They have one of the best transit systems I've seen apart from New York.  Seattle has a good one, too.  I love the Chicago system and LA is really neat.

The main reason I include San Diego is that you can, literally go from the Mexican border to LA using the transit system because the transfers work between San Diego, Orange and LA counties.

Well only I included the major ones I personally knew about. I've been to San Diego but never used the mass transit there. I've only been to Seattle once when my brother lived there and was only there over night so I had no experience with their mass trans either.

UK prices are, in your money just over $10 a gallon and you think you have it bad!!!

Quote - Your still living in the past..... over 70% from what I use at home states: MADE IN CHINA! The only US made item in my house is my drivers license and an expired passport. All of the other stuff has been manufactured in Europe or Asia. My gas comes from Russia, my oil from the middle east, ny car was made in Japan. Even my computer is made from parts manufactured in Europe or Asia.

Well, in a sense, yes.  I wasn't exactly talking about the exactly current situation (we've already been in this downfall in a sense since 9/11).

But, no, you are wrong generally.  Okay, China pumps out more crap than a horse with lotsa hay.  And Russia has tons of oil.  But the US isn't a one trick pony.  We don't have just gas, just coal, just crops, just (the largest) meat distribution in the world, just the most advanced aerospace industry anywhere, just technology, just and just and just.  Just like our cultural diversity, the US is a leader or at least participating in nearly every economic aspect in the solar system (satellites, mars, venus, interplanetary, extra-solar probes - eh?).

Any place else with this much coverage?  (no)  When the (US) stock market crashed in 1929, it took the entire planet with it and eventually triggered WWII.  When 9/11 occured, that took a good part of the planet for a wild ride and the reverberations are just beginning (thank you, GWB - ahole).  To paraphrase Admiral Yamamoto, you shouldn't poke sticks at giants.  Out of all of the other players at the current time, the only one even close is China - but they are destroying everything to remain neck-to-neck (see moving 2 million people to build a dam or the current atmospheric conditions in Beijing as the summer Olympics arrives).

Living in the past - aren't we all (at least several milliseconds anyway). ;P

Victoria_Lee, first welcome to Arizona, second, hang in there. What really irritates me are the car ads that are still concentrating on navigation toys, sound systems, and electronic gadgets, when they should be concentrating on fuel cell cars. Thank you Honda, for showing some sanity. Frankly, I don't want more foo-foo in my vehicle, I just want to be able to afford to drive to work and back: 40 miles round trip, night shift. I am so not standing at a bus stop at midnight.