Hi. I just wanted to say that I learned some non-art-related things I thought very worthwhile recently. And I learned them on Renderosity. In this forum.

They were posts in OT threads, and the threads were controversial, and things were said and offenses were taken, and -- though the discussions never degenerated to anywhere near the low level they do on some sites -- the threads were eventually locked.

Well, that's Renderosity's decision. Some obviously thought these threads were not locked nearly soon enough, and I bet some think they should not have been locked at all. But on to my point:  I realize this is a forum that is primarily intended for discussing Poser, and when these sorts of subjects come up, some certainly do say things and offenses are taken, and there's the TOS, etc., etc., but I just wanted to take a moment to say that there are a lot of intelligent people on this forum and it is just too bad that such OT discussions are too often an excuse to become abusive and too bad that such OT discussions have to be locked, because ... well, as I said at the start, I learned some things I thought very worthwhile, and I just hope a few others did as well.

I fully agree with you, your worship. This is a real community, and I would hate to see such OT threads disappear from the forums completely.

I do think, however, that those people who, whatever their beliefs may be, express them in the forum threads with arrogance and inconsideration for the feelings of others, should be brought more to account than they are.

Unfortunately that can only be done through some fairly rigorous policing, which can itself then be open to accusations of intolerance. In the end, Renderosity must set the rules; but then they should rigorously enforce them; and then they need to listen carefully to the voice of the community with regard to changing them.

I know, easier said....

Sancho

PS: when am I going to get my d----d island?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2742016

Thanks!

~Jani

Quote - but I just wanted to take a moment to say that there are a lot of intelligent people on this forum and it is just too bad that such OT discussions are too often an excuse to become abusive and too bad that such OT discussions have to be locked, because ...

The problem is that if you take a normal intelligent person, give him anonymity and an audience, he will often behave in the absolute worst ways that our wonderful human species is capable of. This has been proven time and again in all sorts of forums on the web. Music forums have flaming over music groups and genres, movie forums have flaming over various actors and directors, CG forums over choice of app, high end vs low end etc. Even knitting forums have flaming over choice of wool and needles...

I have a slim hope that this is all merely a sign of growing pains and that as the 'net becomes a more mature medium, we will all learn to behave less like itchy 13yr olds. But then i remember that recent case where a girl was driven to suicide over myspace and well...

before they lock (or delete) this thread, I should point out that the admins of the major poser
sites, including this one, have shown discomfort in regard to any attempts to discuss
or revive locked threads.  this has been the general policy at all the major poser sites since
time immemorial IIRC.

Thank you for the link, Jumpstartme2, I somehow missed that thread. Now I know what 'Stickies' are. A shame it is becoming necessary, but reassuring to know what is being done.

You are absolutely right that there are (and use to be many more) extreamly intelligent people on this site. Even (by the nature of 3d's complexities) higher then the highs of the national averages.

If you have ever taken a college level english class you know that a BIG part is class discussion. As is here it stimulates ideas and give you the opportunely to hear both sides of an issue.

As art is SPEECH. That would seem to be a neccessary requirement for communicators.

The problem arises when 'the not so intellegent', the more idiologic types of persons, gain control. These types tend to have thinner skins and weaker personalities then the normal alpha personalities types that participate in our discussions.

I've had my mind changed many times durring the discussuions here in the old OT forum. A point, process or fact I didn't know or think of builds on others leading to new paths of creativity.

And THAT is never a bad thing for artists.

People also need to realise that moderation takes a lot more effort on the part of both the users and the moderators. I think most moderators become moderators as "Volunteers". I might be wrong. As I pointed out in one of the locked threads, it's better to email admin about something you think is amiss than it is to take the task into your own hands.

OT should NOT be on this forum.

Not sure why lately a mass flood of OT crap keeps popping up.

It never used to be allowed.

I wish they go back to their old rules of no OT. This is a Poser forum, that's why I come

here not for OT politics, gay marriage and other crap that does

NOT belong on this forum. You wanna talk about such crap I'm sure there are

plenty of such sites on the web to do it. NOT HERE.

(MHO)

*eyeroll.

As long as a topic is marked OT, then anyone who sticks their oar in the water there does so of their own free will. That was why they started marking OT threads as OT; so those who didn't like them had warning. And yeah, the general anonymity factor of the multi-zillion avatar does tend to bring out the child in too many folks. One of the reasons I'd DaleB wherever I go. I don't say anything anywhere else that I wouldn't say here, and vice versa. And I don't playact. Being secure enough in yourself to say 'This is it. Deal' frees up a lot of brain cells for other endeavours... ;P

well, we used to have an OT forum; but that collapsed in the last election (US: 2004), the vitriol was overwhelming. As everyone would probably agree; it's possible to be intelligent, articulate...and wrong...;) Shutting down the Tavern was probably overkill, but hey, I'm no admin...;)

I am guilty of OT threads most of the time they are in the form of questions, to pass on info like software updates, to inject some humor or news. I have taken part in many OT threads as well I guess I like debate and good conversation but as many have posted here there are those that will  do anything to circumvent  rational and adult conversations to put forth their blind ignorance.

I will refrain from such OT threads and post software info in the Hardware/software forum.

There does seem to be something in this forum which has lost it's appeal. We still have the general informative Poser topics & humourous posts, but I feel different here these days. Maybe a big part of it is me, I don't know.
I have participated on occasions in some of these OT threads which have gotten out of hand, I just hope I have never offended anyone. But, it does seem there are a handful of people who post knowing they will get a reaction. I try to keep away from this sort of person in real life, it does frustrate me when I see them here as well.
Also, intelligent grammar & knowledge doesn't hide the persons intent & arrogance.

OT Posts should continue being allowed as they are what give these forums the feel of a community. By Being clearly labeled as OT, everyone is forewarned that the topic is NOT about Poser and has the ability to skip right over them. Just because some are too immature to do so does not mean that everyone else should have to suffer because of it.

What Renderosity needs are some rules about "Instigator" postings to these threads. They should be deleted and warned not to start flames. If they continue to instigate in threads that are OT, they should recieve time outs and if it need go that far, Bannings. Those who are capable of mature friendly discussion should not be penalised because of those who can not.

*""There does seem to be something in this forum which has lost it's appeal. We still have the general informative Poser topics & humourous posts, but I feel different here these days. Maybe a big part of it is me, I don't know.""

*Same for me.  Part of it was learning personally that popularity rules the roost around here and the TOS only applys to those of us who aren't members of that little group.  That made me personally sad actually.  I used to read here every day.  Now it's 2x a week usually at most. 

People here USED to have more adult debates.  There was one about nudity in renders (of course that one has been done many times) - but it went about 15 pages if I recall correctly and although many people had VERY different opinions - it stayed very civil.  Now it is appropriate to pull out all the stops when attacking someone over a different opinion. 

As far as OT goes.  Paganartist don't just take Dajas opinion on that.  Lots of people comprehend what OT means and are able to avoid it if they dont want to read.   I personally like your posts.

jj - I had noticed that you haven't been around here as much recently. I have missed yours & some others viewpoints that don't post much anymore.

To be honest, there was a debate going on a few weeks ago that I intended to voice my opinion on, but I stayed away because of a small group of people on there just having personal arguments. They may find it interesting & maybe even amusing, but for the rest of us having to read through it, it is terribly boring.

*Same for me.  Part of it was learning personally that popularity rules the roost around here and the TOS only applys to those of us who aren't members of that little group.  That made me personally sad actually.  I used to read here every day.  Now it's 2x a week usually at most. 

Yep!  Poser has been hijacked by a little group that think their shit don't stink!  I'll be spending less time here as well.

Quote - *Same for me.  Part of it was learning personally that popularity rules the roost around here and the TOS only applys to those of us who aren't members of that little group.  That made me personally sad actually.  I used to read here every day.  Now it's 2x a week usually at most. 

Yep!  Poser has been hijacked by a little group that think their shit don't stink!  I'll be spending less time here as well.

Are you calling me Popular?!? I thought I was Infamoose! Seriously. I haven't noticed any popularity clicks, but I'm usually not invited to clicks anyway.

FWIW, it's always a good thread if two things happen, in order:

1. I feel compelled to sit back and contemplate what others have written in it.

2. Others sit back and consider what I wrote.

--

Ghonma - you've described Gabriel's Greater Internet Dickwad Theory.

--

I'll require $0.98 in change for this next one...

Moderation is like love... if you ignore it, everything falls apart. If you try to dominate it, everything slowly dies off from asphyxiation. Some of the best and most thought-provoking threads I have ever read are found in Renderotica's flame-bucket forum... Thunderdome. Funny how that turns out, too - since folks quickly discover that they haven't any real power to shock or offend (esp. there), folks usually wind up in reasonable, funny, and philosophical discussions.

It is a safe assumption that most folks in here are adults, and do not require hand-holding, nor do they require having their feelings protected. An open, liberal* mind does not get offended very often, if at all - you consider the source, judge its credibility, then answer, learn from, or ignore it.

Do that, and you become a better person overall.

• liberal as in the classical sense of the word, not of any ideological or partisan sense.

/P

Hello all.

Your various comments have made some interesting reading.

I just thought I'd pipe in here again for a second and mention something I've come to understand over the years (at least some of the time, when I'm keeping my wits about me):  when someone -- er, let me rephrase -- when you or I cast aspersions toward someone else, or toward some other group of people that are claimed to be less worthwhile or inferior or something, we are actually revealing far more about ourselves, i.e., about our own biases, prejudices, personality, etc., than anything we could possibly have to say about the other(s).

If fact, most such remarks are devoid of any other actual information, i.e., except for what the remark reveals about us.

Just as an example, I've always thought it odd that when someone makes a racist remark that that person always seems to think they are saying something about the race they are impugning when in fact all they are really doing is revealing that they are a racist.

If we could all keep this self-revelation thing in mind much of the time, I expect we would all be that much more thoughtful about when and where it is appropriate to spout off.

Just a thought, FWIW.

Quote - If we could all keep this self-revelation thing in mind much of the time, I expect we would all be that much more thoughtful about when and where it is appropriate to spout off.

Very insightful and thanks! I could use more insights like that!

Thank you all for the words of wisdom.  Now,  if what they ( the small group) did just affected me I would have no problem with it.  I'd simply ignore it.  It affected my son though and I have a big problem with that. 

My 2p's worth....

I think the biggest shame is our real world communitys have become so insular we do tend  to go online more and thats one reason why OT stuff crops up.

I always consider myself fortunate in having a good bunch of friends and accquantinces, both online and off,  but  for some people of those being online is the only form of communication they have. So maybe we shouldn't be too hard on someone who's feeling a bit lonely  and wants to talk with like minded people.

After all if you've ever tried to explain poser to a non poser user without making them dribble or watching their eyes roll back into their skull  :)

Quote -
After all if you've ever tried to explain poser to a non poser user without making them dribble or watching their eyes roll back into their skull  :)

ROTFL! I did that yesterday when someone saw my desktop background (a chick flipping the viewer her middle finger - the one on my MySpace page). He asked me about it, and I replied "oh, that's not a 'her', it's just a point-cloud joined by half-edges and textured to resemble a humanoid figure". His face literally wiped itself into a blank disbelieving slate. The guy writes code directly in OpenGL (but for video, not 3D/CG). He downloaded D|S and started playing with it later... came back and went "man, that's pretty cool!"

/P

*...So you,  thought you'd go to the show...*Pink Floyd

http://www.contentparadise.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9296