Quote - Thanks, Digital Dreamer!

However, I have no plans for acquiring Office 2008 any time soon.

Can we get an older format version also?

Agreed. Or maybe an ODF format of the document?

You have Word and PDF versions (assuming BB has had the time to upload the PDF).

If he has not yet done so, PM me here with an e-mail address and I'll send you the PDF

I haven't received it, DD. The first doc you sent took 4 days to arrive. :)

oh well, perhaps we should ask rosity to feed their carrier pigeons!

or, if you download a little app called CutePDF Writer you could turn it into a pdf?

Attached Link: http://poserbagginsbill.googlepages.com/VSSDiscussion.pdf

Thank you, Bagginsbill. Good to know we were a moment of light in the darkness or boredom ;)

Here's another render made with the help of VSS and few little mat and light tweaks.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1739778

That looks great and very realistic Connie, especially with you new GND outfit, maybe one point of advice: when I have a skintight, transparant suit Iike stockings, I switch off the "visible in raytracing" to avoid the "wet" spots which are caused by AO.

best regards,

Bopper.

Sorry, stupid advice: you won't see the suit in the refelection if you turn off the visibility in raytracing.
Perhaps someone else knows a solution?

Sorry again.

Bopper.

Connie - that's really impressive. I've been watching the progress on the outfit. You've done amazing work there.  The skin came out really nice there, don't you think? Takes your images to a whole new level. Well done.

did you have a gamma correction shader on the hair? 

Quote - That looks great and very realistic Connie, especially with you new GND outfit, maybe one point of advice: when I have a skintight, transparant suit Iike stockings, I switch off the "visible in raytracing" to avoid the "wet" spots which are caused by AO.

best regards,

Bopper.

What you can do is apply AO to materials, not to lights. What I do in these circumstances is use Face-offs scripts and use AO only on the face. If I need AO on a body part which is partially covered by the stocking, what I do is render it twice, once with AO and once without, and then merge them in photoshop. (Typically I put the one with AO as the top layer, and then erase the bits which have the "wetlook" spots.)

That sounds like a good idea, with VSS you can have AO on the material, but I think it's possible to detach that. I'll try that tonight.

Thanks for the advice!

Bopper.

The VSS Template Skin does have AO on the materials.

If you want different settings for some zones, make a new template, such as Template SkinNOAO, copy the shader over, delete the AO node.

Then go into Shader Rules and map the legs to the new template.

Just a note - you can't select all, copy, and paste. My nodes don't survive that, because I push them to do things Poser never expected. To make a copy of the shader, save the material. Then create the new material zone, and load the saved shader.

*Just a note - you can't select all, copy, and paste. My nodes don't survive that, because I push them to do things Poser never expected. To make a copy of the shader, save the material. Then create the new material zone, and load the saved shader.

*That's strange because it worked for me: I copy & pasted the skin shader to make a new lips and nail shaders,  clicked the "auto-rename images" button and it worked.

By the way, can VSS also work with dynamic Hair-props, I tried that by making a hair shader, but it didn't work.
It would save me lot of time because now I have to change every hair-prop one at the time.

Bopper.

Ah - yes - well you're pretty clever. Auto-rename images fixes the issue. Heheh. I forgot about that one.

Just a lucky try, I guess...

Bopper.

Now I seem to be getting a different result under Mec4D lighting. frowning Must be my lights......

Ok my latest attempt is here: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1741478

Some post but not on the skin. I set the skin template to .75 and increased the main light to 40%. Some of the AO shadows are a bit strong I think. The left foot heel and the toes. Should I change the AO for those body parts?

Don

Where do I get this VSS Prop from? I can't find it!

Tankred

Quote - Now I seem to be getting a different result under Mec4D lighting. frowning Must be my lights......

Are you using Preview Release 1 or 2? Looks like 1. Should be 2.

Quote - Ok my latest attempt is here: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1741478

Some post but not on the skin. I set the skin template to .75 and increased the main light to 40%. Some of the AO shadows are a bit strong I think. The left foot heel and the toes. Should I change the AO for those body parts?

Don

I keep going around and around with how much AO to use. I agree that in your image the AO looks too strong.

I think that since AO is significantly an "approximation" to global illumination, the onus is on the artist to evaluate it and tweak parameters to suit the situation. If we had true GI calculations, we would not have to bother.

So, yes, I think you should adjust the AO strength/distance. But I'd do it in the template, not each target zone. I often think I put too much AO in the template. I see a lot of characters get an extra amount of AO shadow around the nose and under breasts. I think I did too much.

But that's the point of VSS right? You change in only ONE place, which is easy, and then VSS changes it in 14 places for you.

Experiment, and share your results, please! I did a bunch of experiments to discover that 7 is the right number of samples for AO to get 95% of the potential quality. That was a big piece of info. You guys should pay me for that alone. :)

Pay back - tell your experimental results, so we can all just dial in the right amount and skip the test renders.

Hi LL,

The VSS shader is going to respond very differently to lights than your existing shaders. So, yes, lights are going to matter. You're used to something that misbehaves a certain way, and you've come to expect and deal with that. You need to unlearn those things.

Because I'm a moderator at RuntimeDNA, I have free access to many artists stuff, including Rebelmommy. RM is one of the GREATEST vendors out there. Beautiful stuff.

I don't see the particular set of textures you mentioned in your posting, but here is one I happen to have from RM. It is the Mandira character. (so lovely - yum)

On the left is Mandira as RM sent her. On the right is Mandira with VSS. I rendered both in the same render so there'd be no monkey business with lighting. :)

Very different, right? Is the VSS better? NO. Just different. What style do you want? Make it! VSS is about making quick changes. It is not a shader. It is a shader SYSTEM.

You should make the skin shader be what you want it to be. Want the vargas shader I posted 2 years ago? Load it in the template. It will then apply to any figure!!

That's the point.

I'm trying so hard to finish the new user interface. You guys will love it. Then we can play with KNOBS instead of having to go into the shader/material room. I mean real f'ing knobs!

Here are Vargas1 and Vargas2, using the same RM color maps.

The Vargas shader was meant to be used against a white background - to give the appearance of air-brushed art on paper. But in 3D it makes an interesting result, eh?

Attached Link: http://poserbagginsbill.googlepages.com/vsshomepage

Are you asking where to download from or where is it in your runtime?

You download from the VSS home page. You find it in Props:VSSPR1 for the original release. The PR2 zip file, you're supposed to make a new folder on your own, and copy the prop into there. I suggest VSSPR2.

Hey Bill thanks for all the great info. How exactly would I incorporate the Vagas from matmatic to VSS?

Thanks, Don

Attached Link: http://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/free-stuff/matmatic/scripts

I've uploaded a new VargasVSS script to my web site.

You need matmatic. Run the script. It will produce two VSS-style Template shaders.

Load those into your prop for Template Skin. You can also load into the other zones such as eyewhite, or change the Shader Rules, or whatever.

The Flex-based user interface I'm working on will make this super easy.

Quote - > Quote -

I'm trying so hard to finish the new user interface. You guys will love it. Then we can play with KNOBS instead of having to go into the shader/material room. I mean real f'ing knobs!

i am now searching this in this thread now and i dont knwo exactly what this is. 
will you make buttons for quick changes?

Ok am gonna go and play and see if I can get this to work and thanks again. Will post an image when done.

Don

ok i found about the interface

Ok Bill I now have the two mt5 files as instructed. How do I get either of those into the Template Skin on the VSS prop? Hope this makess sense.. LOL

Don

BTW: Thats looking really good Latexluv

Quote - I did not know Rebelmommy had any character sets over at RuntimeDNA. I am now getting this as my results in my test renders for my lights.

RM is a big deal at RDNA. She's got a lot of products there. Beautiful stuff.

Your latest render is lovely, IMO.

Quote - Ok Bill I now have the two mt5 files as instructed. How do I get either of those into the Template Skin on the VSS prop?

Very simple. You load it like any other material.

Go into the material room.
Select the VSS prop (usually VSS_1).
Using the material room material selector pulldown, choose Template Skin.
Navigate your Library to where you have the VargasVSS materials.
Double click one of them to load into Template Skin.
Synchronize to copy to all zones on the figure.
Render.

Just a note on lighting with the Vargas shader: The Vargas shader is particularly sensitive to lighting and should not be used with realism lights. It was designed to pick up lighting from a single infinite light and use that information to generate what hopefully looks like a drawing or painting.

Quote - Just a note on lighting with the Vargas shader: The Vargas shader is particularly sensitive to lighting and should not be used with realism lights. It was designed to pick up lighting from a single infinite light and use that information to generate what hopefully looks like a drawing or painting.

Aha ok now I know why I was having troubles using your outdoor lights.

Thanks again Bill

Don

Thanks,   Don

you need AO.

Quote - you need AO.

I have some AO on the materials. I think the red is a part of the shader nodes to accomplish the Vargas look, which is correct but I would love to know how to control it for a bit different look.

Don

Quote - > Quote - you need AO.

I have some AO on the materials. I think the red is a part of the shader nodes to accomplish the Vargas look, which is correct but I would love to know how to control it for a bit different look.

Don

Ok I cut the saturation back to 1 in the HSV node and that did the trick :)  If this is wrong for some reason Bill let me know. Will post a revised image in a few.

Thanks,   Don

Don

You've achieved a more realistic image but its less Vargas like. I prefer the previous, but this one looks good aswell. You might be achieving your own style. Keep at it.

Quote - You've achieved a more realistic image but its less Vargas like. I prefer the previous, but this one looks good aswell. You might be achieving your own style. Keep at it.

Yes I agree the first one is more Vargas like but I am trying to achieve a certain look. Trying to get a soft realistic kind of look.

Don

Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/forum/messages.php?ShowMessage=250426

But I see you found a way to mess with it.

I honestly don't completely understand that shader any longer. I was very in the zone on the day I wrote it. Some of the techniques I used were rather roundabout, and I'd do it maybe a bit more simply today.

The link above will take you to the original Vargas thread at RuntimeDNA. I posted renders, and then we had a long discussion about "simpler" ways to get the same render. Actually, there are few simpler ways to get the same. Hehehehe. The key thing is how to get "Vargas" to draw your color map - nipples included!