Just a thought: Is there some sort of store category that can be created, or a meta-tag the PTB can use that simply says "add-on package"? That is, a package that requires the purchase of something else in the store? This way it might keep the confusion down a bit for the newbies... and some of us who occasionally click on something, only to discover this long chain of stuff required for purchase beforehand (yes, the requirements are listed... but that's buried in the promo blurb page). I'm not talking about stuff that requires the base figure (e.g. requires Vicky some version or other), but stuff that's nothing more than a texture pack, or something that turns out to be an "expansion" kit. I guess it's always been a pet peeve of mine... you see this nice promo render, click on it thinking it's the whole package, and no... you gotta buy other stuff first. Yes, I know there's a texture category and such, but IMHO too many items get mixed together and apparently items get mis-categorized. For instance, in Poser or DAZ Studio / Victoria 4 / Clothing , I find: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=62516&TopID=11219.102553.102555. --and-- http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=62217&TopID=11219.102553.102555. ...which leads me to ask: WTF? These aren't clothing meshes - they're friggin' texture sets! Seriously - I'm not knocking the items, I'm just wondering WTF they're doing in "clothing" when they're obviously just texture kits - and I can only imagine what a newbie has to weed through just to find the basic stuff, you know? /P

Maybe they just need the ability to re catagorize mis catagorized items?

They already make vendors jump through all sorts of hoops.. surely Rendo's testers can use that time to distinguish between a texture set, and a set which includes new meshes?

shoot- I'd like to see what the required base character is on the thumbs page!

Yes, that would be cool, to have add-on category.

In addition to that, what bugs me that add on textures are mixed in with meshes in clothing category... and other clothing textures get mixed up with various merchant resource texture squares.

I'm sure if I concentrate a bit more I could list a number of other search and organization items in the marketplace that could use improvement.

I bet it would increase sales too. There's been many times I've been ready to get something, only to give up after cruising the marketplace for a while and not finding what I was looking for... only to find it later, when the interest waned.

My request for the marketplace would be to have everything at 100% off.

Quote - My request for the marketplace would be to have everything at 100% off.

LOL Same for me!! ^^

But i guess though the marketplace could change it's name to freebieplace! lol

It could indeed have much more categories, all is mixed up there. It's often i search for something and finally fall on something else completely by chance. But no way to find the first thing i was looking for :(

Quote - My request for the marketplace would be to have everything at 100% off.

I third that motion!  LOL

Or even another 30% off everything in the store would be nice! 

Quote - Just a thought: Is there some sort of store category that can be created, or a meta-tag the PTB can use that simply says "add-on package"? That is, a package that requires the purchase of something else in the store? This way it might keep the confusion down a bit for the newbies... and some of us who occasionally click on something, only to discover this long chain of stuff required for purchase beforehand (yes, the requirements are listed... but that's buried in the promo blurb page). I'm not talking about stuff that requires the base figure (e.g. requires Vicky some version or other), but stuff that's nothing more than a texture pack, or something that turns out to be an "expansion" kit. I guess it's always been a pet peeve of mine... you see this nice promo render, click on it thinking it's the whole package, and no... you gotta buy other stuff first. Yes, I know there's a texture category and such, but IMHO too many items get mixed together and apparently items get mis-categorized. For instance, in Poser or DAZ Studio / Victoria 4 / Clothing , I find: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=62516&TopID=11219.102553.102555. --and-- http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=62217&TopID=11219.102553.102555. ...which leads me to ask: WTF? These aren't clothing meshes - they're friggin' texture sets! Seriously - I'm not knocking the items, I'm just wondering WTF they're doing in "clothing" when they're obviously just texture kits - and I can only imagine what a newbie has to weed through just to find the basic stuff, you know? /P

You need to drop down to the sub-category - if you just click on clothing, textures & models are mixed - pick either sub-category to filter out what you don't want to see.

For example - from the V4 clothing page - the sub-categories are underneath.

Top / Poser or DAZ Studio / Victoria 4 / Clothing

Models | Textures

Nope.

For example, just on the first page of "models", what do I see? Illusion for Arcana -  a (rather nice) texture set, created by renapd for AerySoul's (also very nice) Arcana clothing figure. Not a mesh, a texture set, but it's on the models page. No, I don't own any of these products, but I have been thinking about buying them, so I know what each item is. Newbies might not have such an easy time sorting through the miscategorized MarketPlace.

Quote - Nope.

For example, just on the first page of "models", what do I see? Illusion for Arcana -  a (rather nice) texture set, created by renapd for AerySoul's (also very nice) Arcana clothing figure. Not a mesh, a texture set, but it's on the models page. No, I don't own any of these products, but I have been thinking about buying them, so I know what each item is. Newbies might not have such an easy time sorting through the miscategorized MarketPlace.

Well that is due to renapd, rather than the MarketPlace, as it is the vendor that categorises the products. I guess some vendors need to be educated & asked to categorise appropriately.

OK! Here's my two cents (everyone waiting to see what angry crap Doran is about to say...) But seriously, I have purchased some humanoid characters That I intended to use in animations. I am dependant on IKs and some of the items in question had no IK chains. Because of the importance of such a thing, I think that the lack of IKs should be a point the Vender is obligated to mention in there sales pitch. If I had known that there were no IKs for the figure I wouldn't have bought them, period.

It's like the free stuff section and thumbnail previews. If someone offers an item but provides no thumbnail preview I always say to myself "man, if this guy can't make a thumbnail image then why should I trust them to make a good texture, model, etc". the same goes for IKs, well at least for me. If they can't create IKs then how good can their work be. Since IKs are an important feature for poser items then the lack there of should be mentioned. In my opinion, to not do so is either lazy or misleading. Well, that’s it.

Oh, and I agree with the rest of the posts here, as well. A little common sense would be nice.

Adding ik chains isn't that hard...add your own.

The downside to buying less expensive content (in a lot of cases) is lack of features. I know some vendors have not included quite a number of features specifically because they felt they had to reduce retail price to stay competitive in the marketplace.

Quote - Well that is due to renapd, rather than the MarketPlace, as it is the vendor that categorises the products. I guess some vendors need to be educated & asked to categorise appropriately.

I got a better idea - why can't whoever approves the critter for insertion to the store do the categorization? It's not a question of ignorance - Renapd's been around a very long time. /P

I fail to see why the testers don't catagorize things themselves anyway. That keeps creators honest.

if something is mis catagorized, If I were rendo, I'd be following up with the tester, asking them why this was missed, and taking steps to correct it in the future.

I just noticed, Textures vs. meshes distinction, under cloting only exists for V4. There's in none for Aiko, V3, Michael etc...
No wonder i hadn't seen it before, I haven't been using V4 very much.

Quote - > Quote - Well that is due to renapd, rather than the MarketPlace, as it is the vendor that categorises the products. I guess some vendors need to be educated & asked to categorise appropriately.

I got a better idea - why can't whoever approves the critter for insertion to the store do the categorization? It's not a question of ignorance - Renapd's been around a very long time. /P

Geeze, please don't put words in my mouth (or on my keyboard ) who said renapd was ignorant, I certainly didn't! For all I know she simply made a mistake with that particular item that was given as an example. When I said "I guess some vendors need to be educated & asked to categorise appropriately." I was talking generally, not specifically.

And yes, I agree icategories should be checked before release, but obviously they aren't. At this point in time, as I said previously, it is the vendor who chooses the categories on submission.

What I think is worse, are freebie textures that can only be used with the original commercial objects...

Bopper.

Quote -
And yes, I agree icategories should be checked before release, but obviously they aren't. At this point in time, as I said previously, it is the vendor who chooses the categories on submission.

I hope you're not affixing primary blame on the merchants, but that's the impression I get.

Perhaps someone on store staff should sweep through the thing periodically and fix what they find?

/P

Quote - > Quote -

And yes, I agree icategories should be checked before release, but obviously they aren't. At this point in time, as I said previously, it is the vendor who chooses the categories on submission.

I hope you're not affixing primary blame on the merchants, but that's the impression I get.

Perhaps someone on store staff should sweep through the thing periodically and fix what they find?

/P

big long drawn out sigh No, I am saying they are as much to "blame" as the store staff, as they choose the categories initially.

Just a suggestion but if you want changes like this to occur, there is not much point discussing them in the forum, direct them at the PTB, they are the ones capable of making the changes.

P.S. I am a merchant, so I am taring myself with the same brush,

Quote - What I think is worse, are freebie textures that can only be used with the original commercial objects...

Bopper.

I don't get this, so I am bad because I have made & given away free textures to someone elses commercial product?

I'm sorry, I have to specify that, I didn't meant those people who made free textures and add-ons for commercial products because they like the product and want to share their results with others, but in my opinion freebies are often used to sell the original products. Last christmas Renderosity (and the other posersites as well) offered a lot of freebies as christmasgifts, but with some exceptions the majority could only be used as you bought the original product. I don't call that freebies, I call that advertising!

best regards,

Bopperthijs.

Quote -
big long drawn out sigh 

Ah, the written word - so many can use them, but so few can express them well. I'll just leave it at that.

Quote - No, I am saying they are as much to "blame" as the store staff, as they choose the categories initially.

1. Sorry, but the buck stops at the staff.

2. Scare quotes are single ticks ( like 'this' ).

3. Yes, the word blame (or if you prefer, responsibility) is appropriate. Deal.

As someone who deals with real-life consignment sales (specifically I deal in antique and vintage audio equipment), I've yet to find an antiques dealership that doesn't have a set of rules forbidding a consignee to stick his or her wares outside of the rented booth area and put them, say, in the front window for better placement. Items found there are moved back pretty quickly when discovered, and a consignee who does it more than once is first told, then warned, then thrown out.

Online, places such as eBay will summarily delete entries that are found to be mis-categorized. Other stores will simply move them as they find them. The small mom-and-pop affairs I don't worry about as much, because they've got their own incentives to keep it straight, and they're still struggling, so slack is in plentiful supply for 'em IMHO. OTOH, Renderosity is a multi-million-dollar concern. They are big enough to take it on the nose when they goof up.

Quote - Just a suggestion but if you want changes like this to occur, there is not much point discussing them in the forum, direct them at the PTB, they are the ones capable of making the changes.

Done that too many times over the years to have received the perfunctory "we'll get right on it!" followed by a big helping of nothing. It's easier to get things done by gathering general agreement first. ;)

Quote - P.S. I am a merchant, so I am taring myself with the same brush,

...but kissing up to the boss never hurts, right ;)

/P

I have never kissed butt here, but If you just want to be snide & childish, go for it, but it won't get the marketplace improved will it. I was simply explaining what does happen at the moment.

As I said before  "Just a suggestion but if you want changes like this to occur, there is not much point discussing them in the forum, direct them at the PTB, they are the ones capable of making the changes."

Hmm, well I try to put that info on each promo page, that it's just a texture set only or if it contains morphs, list that. And that no clothing or hair props are included. Seems to me that should prevent confusion. I have noticed also that the search feature is a tad bit off, like when I'm searching for M3, it brings up V3? Or a search for Apllo brings up all kinds of V3 stuff...shrug

1.) Newb buys $6 texture set.

2.) Newb then buys $15 mesh after realizing texture is useless without it.

3.) What’s the problem? :tongue2:
 

Quote - I have never kissed butt here, but If you just want to be snide & childish, go for it, but it won't get the marketplace improved will it. I was simply explaining what does happen at the moment.

shrug get angry if you like, but honestly... you're mis-communicating. Defend them all you like, but they're the ones who need to fix this. If this offends you, it's not my problem.

Buh-bye now.

/P

Quote - 1.) Newb buys $6 texture set.

2.) Newb then buys $15 mesh after realizing texture is useless without it.

3.) What’s the problem? :tongue2:
 

Newb gets angry and stops buying from store, and from the merch who 'misled' them? Newb then spread word about his or her 'ripoff'?

/P

You would think so, spread the word I mean. It doesen't seem to be something the marketplace staff is overly concerned about. shrugs

Sasha_Maurice, posting an image like that is disguisting, and higly inappropriate.  You must be some piece of work reveling in and ridiculing death of some poor little ctitter.

Quote -
You would think so, spread the word I mean. It doesen't seem to be something the marketplace staff is overly concerned about. shrugs

I wonder about that too... but it isn't my income that's at stake.

Funny pic, by the by :)

(yes, I have two cats - one of which lives outdoors most of the time, and two dogs. OTOH, death and taxes... if you can't laugh at 'em once in awhile, then what can you laugh at?)

/P

Quote - **Adding ik chains isn't that hard...add your own.
The downside to buying less expensive content (in a lot of cases) is lack of features. I know some vendors have not included quite a number of features specifically because they felt they had to reduce retail price to stay competitive in the marketplace.

**

 
You are kidding, right?

First of all, I don’t buy cheap items. Secondly, I'm not concerned with whether or not a vendor adds or subtracts features. I only care when an items **description doesn't state whether or not standard features have been subtracted or even excluded from the design process altogether. Thirdly, I am an animator of high quality, cinema length features and my projects consumes most of my time (an understatement) therefore I don't have the time to fix what should have already been present in an item. I have the right as a consumer to be made aware of what I am buying, period. Such a lack of disclosure is misleading and I can't understand why you would defend such a thing.

And yes, you were defending it with that reply. That's what you stated I should do. When the feature doesn't appear to be present after the purchase is complete I should just let it slide and add the feature myself and ignore the fact that its absence was never disclosed prior to the point sale. A vendor should have to disclose the lack of any standardized features that would normally be expected to be present in an item, such as a humanoid character model using IK chains? If I have misunderstood your comment, then please elaborate. Otherwise, your response to me seemed more as if you were saying "quit whining". Not a nice thing to direct at someone making a valid point and definitely not a wise thing to say in a public forum to a person who is asking for a stronger discloser policy in the Marketplace, something that would benefit innocent consumers.

Lets try this: if a car model is being sold in the Marketplace as a pz2 or pp2, but the vendor doesn't state that the model is actually a one-piece object converted to Poser figure or prop format; and after purchasing the item and discovering that the wheels, doors, etc. don't move, I should just let it slide and fix the item myself, having no right to complain about the lack of disclosure? Customers should be very careful when dealing with a vendor that doesn't concern themselves with full disclosure. How can you trust the practices of a vendor or the Marketplace itself if you can't trust the product description policies of the items being sold therein? Who would defend incomplete product disclosure and misleading sales practices. That’s what the lack of disclosure is, a misleading sales practice, whether it is intentional or not.**

To exclude such a fact in the products description is obviously wrong. You don't need the court system or a layer or even a priest to tell you the difference between right and wrong, do you? Renderosity needs to obligate its vendors to list the absence of ANY standardized features in a products description, from textures and props to deformers and IK chains. You already have to state “texture and hair not included”. Why not IK chains?

Quote - **

Lets try this: if a car model is being sold in the Marketplace as a pz2 or pp2,**

To be fair, if it was advertised as a PP2 then the odds are it wouldn't be poseable, unless it was loaded with morphs for the purpose. And I certainly wouldn't expect anything in PZ2 to move.

Your point about IK chains is valid though, especially in humanoid characters. They are expected and do seem to be the norm. However, when advertising products, you show what they do, not what they don't do. If the blurb doesn't say that it has IK chains, then you shouldn't really expect them. V4 won't make your coffee, and I bet Daz doesn't have a line on the store page that says 'Does not make coffee.'

Quote - Hobo is putting Freeway in his place.

HA!

Arcadia. Do you mind if I icanhascheeseburgerify that picture?

Quote - I'm sorry, I have to specify that, I didn't meant those people who made free textures and add-ons for commercial products because they like the product and want to share their results with others, but in my opinion freebies are often used to sell the original products. Last christmas Renderosity (and the other posersites as well) offered a lot of freebies as christmasgifts, but with some exceptions the majority could only be used as you bought the original product. I don't call that freebies, I call that advertising!

best regards,

Bopperthijs.

Bopperthijs I think you will find that this is a very small minority viewpoint here. One wich I personally share, but a minority one here nonetheless.

*Quote: Bopperthijs I think you will find that this is a very small minority viewpoint here. One wich I personally share, but a minority one here nonetheless.

Hi Daidalos,
I had to read all the posts again, to remember what it was about, but I don't mind being a minority, at least we have a minority of two now.

I still agree that there has to be a special category in the marketplace for add-on products, Not that I don't appreciate the add-on's, but it's confusing. Especially when some vendor's promote there products as if it was an original product, and with a very small note that you need another product to use it.
I think that's really a shame because the add-on's are often a enrichment for the original product but worthless without it, so there should at least a warning and a link to the original product.
A lot of vendors do that very well, but others seem to "forget" it.

Best regards,

Bopper.

Quote -

Your caption was a hit with Mike, the proud "papa" of Hobo and Freeway! 

Quote - Your caption was a hit with Mike, the proud "papa" of Hobo and Freeway! 

Hey thats great Arcadia. Tho I should prolly re-do it so its more in lolspeak. :laugh:

Me make lolspeak in RL 2.

Quote - Sasha_Maurice, posting an image like that is disguisting, and higly inappropriate.  You must be some piece of work reveling in and ridiculing death of some poor little ctitter.

I have a hobby shooting feral cats - I pity the little native animals that these mangy carnivores have taken to the brink of extinction.

All I can say is - Sasha - thats a good start....