Is it just me or is M4's hip rotation off balance?
Look at the figure from the right or left side with the hip rotation on the Y axis at zero. He's standing straight, but if you rotate it 180 degrees on the Y, he ends up leaning back, looking off balance.

I checked the body rotations and they're all at zero, and no parts are bent. I looked at the joint editor and the little widgets there look to stay straight through the rotation.

I don't understand how "he" could be standing straight at zero degrees, but leaning back at 180 degrees, unless the Y axis is slightly skewed, which it apparently is.
90 and 270 degree rotations also produce a noticeable lean to the right and left, but again, he's straight at 0 degrees.

And through all hip rotations on the Y, the feet don't stay on the ground.

There's no question that this is what I'm seeing, but I'm wondering if others are too. I might have done something to cause this, but I don't know what, as I haven't messed with the joint settings and all MT's are at zero.

I see it.

His hip seems to rotate 6 degrees on X axis when you rotate 180. This could be troublesome, I guess.

I still see hip Y zeroing to -0.000 same as V4.

Yeah, about 6 degrees, that's what I see too.

Seems to me this could be a major issue for people creating clothing for him.

Better make Daz aware of this.

Sure enough, I get that too.  Very sloppy :/

Very sloppy, indeed.

I find it hard to believe I'm the first one to have noticed this.

If V4 would have been the one afflicted with this condition, there would have been an uproar the likes of which have rarely been seen in the World of Poser...

Looks like I need to get busy updating my products to Daz standards!

(Yes, that's exactly 6 degrees. )

 Bizarre.... OO

Does/didn't V3 suffer from a similar problem? 

Yep, you would think they'd have figured out how to align the root bone after that much time.

well spotted.  Damn it!

 oh no, not a million v4 bits to redownload taking up space in my accounts page, all over again.  I really hope this time they only put the relevant files back to my account page after the fix, but somehow I doubt it.
Love esther

Did they fix V3's 6 degree problem?

Quote - Better make Daz aware of this.

Possibly the OP or someone else could post this to the following Topic????

Updates to Some M4 Products
http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=1554165#1554165

It seems to be all about Michael 4 Fixes.

They just released a Fix for the M4 Eyelashes.

DAZ_HakDragon
DAZ Content QA Team

Quote - The M4 eyelash patch was put in and made live, and should be available by requesting a download reset for M4 Base and M4 Morphs++. This should clear up most all the eyelash issues with M4. Thanks to everyone for reporting this issue, we care about making things right with you as much as you do by reporting them.

We are still looking at the issues with the "Michael 4 Textures 02" product, and we will let you know about them as soon as we find out.

Thanks again for being with DAZ,
-Hak

I don't buy their explanation. The pic here is of both V4 and M4 with their hips rotated 180 degrees. Clearly there's a difference. Maybe the hip should have been modeled that way, but IMO you don't screw with XYZ rotation origins. And maybe it is a "a more natural alignment" when the figure is facing straight, but it is a decidedly unnatural alignment when turned around at 180 degrees or 90 0r -90 and everything in between. That is clearly a cop-out explanation that was given. My guess is it's too screwed up to do over. Something like a bad hip rotation isn't easy to fix without it affecting everything else, and would be alot of work.

I really can't believe that one line there though: "Full-body rotations should be based on the figure's BODY instead of the hip."

The word BODY emphasized as if to say, "Now now children, you should know better..."

That's just stupid. The BODY pivots around the origin, i.e., the origin at which the figure was created - at 0,0,0 in most figure's cases. If you have your figure moved way off to the side and rotate the body, the rotation sweeps around an arc defined by its distance from the origin. That's basic 3D 101 in an app like Poser which doesn't allow for rotating by selection or the figure's current position. And you end up with your figure way at the opposite end of your scene when all you wanted to do was turn it around to face the opposite direction. That would play sheer hell trying to ANIMATE a simple turning motion if every time you had to keyframe in major translations on X and Z just to turn your figure around.

They must think we're all idiots out here.
I'd just as soon see them say, "Go **** yourself, it's staying that way." rather than some canned bullshit like that.

If anyone wants to copy/paste any of what I wrote here to there, feel free to. I have no interest in going there and arguing with DAZ.

I liked reading the nonsense that the misalignment of the hip is done like V3, "more natural".  Yep, looks totally natural to me!

Isn't distributing a pose with the rotation on the BODY instead of hip problematic and should be avoided by all good Pose artists?

Absolutely.

I have no idea what you are talking about, you guys must not know that M4 is and I quote
** "The Most Popular 3D Figure of All Time !"
**... (quote from DAZ)...

They made saving the BODY parameters optional in Poser 6 or maybe 7 (i dont have P6 to check)

Prior to that P4 and P5 if you used BODY you were not going to get them saved with a pose file.

I dont think you can even distrubute a pose with the BODY and not HIP rotation and translation. These get nulled out in animated poses, or so I thought when I tried to make some animated poses for v3/m3.

I think Daz's cop out explanation is more of an admission of guilt as the BODY poses don't get saved at all. Perhaps they do in poser pro or Daz studio.

Or perhaps I am wrong about this.

Well if anyone's interested it's an easy fix.
If you select the M4 Hip and open up the Joint Editor, you see the X and Z rotations are not at zero. if you set those to zero and don't change anything else, M4 rotates normally from there on out.

Which is even further proof that the person at DAZ "explaining" their reasoning was blatantly making stuff up, or simply not really even paying attention to the question that was being asked.

Rotate the figure from the Body. I'm still laughing over that one.

this would explain why its a bitch for me to get his feet flat on the floor I would assume. how silly.