QUOTE:- "So, to recap: Commercial threads aren't allowed here. If you answer a question that someone posed (e.g. "Where can I find a polar bear?") then fine, that's fair enough. Posting new threads saying "Wow, look at this product" or "Hey, there's a sale at Daz!" - these will be removed. 

Questions? Email admin, or site mail your forum staff."

Hi,  I am so disappointed that we won't be seeing these wow and hey posts anymore. I find them really useful.  When I make a scene in poser I need lots of different 3d assets to make it look good. I like to be able to find stuff easily, and I enjoy telling others if I find a really good product as well. I will also be very upset if I miss an offsite sale.

This is going to significantly impact on my enjoyment of renderosity forums.  I used to look forward to checking the poser forum several times a day.

I am not a merchant so I believe I am not allowed to post these WOW and HEY posts in the product showcase forum either.

Very sad.

Love esther

 on the upside we will be seeing lots of funny creative posts about [JAZZ] and [Nicki] etc

o.k., so this means we can post freebie links here when gimmees ask for stuff?
but I'm guessing it means we can't post links to other marketplaces than 'rosity.
which would make sense, as it would take bidness away from the site, but the
freebie links wouldn't cause no nevermind, y'all.

but I was unclear if we could still post freebie links, or if we could post links to
philc's site (e.g.) or other trusted merchants' sites who are members here.

 Their new rules mean we can post links anywhere we like if it answers someone's question.  Even to daz.  We just can't announce anything.
Love esther

 I'm allergic to them - cough, wheeze, gasp!!!

 make it go away.  this should be a TOS violation.

Can answer a question, eh?

So, theoretically, if someone were to ask every day "Hey, anyone know about any cool sales on somewhere"...

Nah, I'm not a lawyer.  I just work with them a lot.

 i got a reply from admin:-

Hi Esther,

Thank you for your feedback.

Kind regards,

so if you have something you want to push,
how about you set up a 2nd account and post " where can i find?"
then reply with your acount "here"
like we have not seen that before

I was just wondering would we get in trouble posting something like "Avoid product x at such and site  B ..it is a scam" or "Found nifty poser resource at market X"?

These are just a few things I am not sure would violate the TOS.

 "Found nifty poser resource at market X"? - this is now considered a definite violation of the TOS.  See my original post - the top part is a quote from renderosity giving an example of what you can't say anymore and what you still can say as regards products on  other sites.  ie you can't announce anything unless you are a merchant.  then you can announce it on the product showcase forum.  But us non-merchants need to be quiet.  I think tha'ts how it works now.

SoulTaker - sometimes it is just nice to know if there's a new vickie 5 being released at daz or something.  It's not always "pushing" you know.
I need stuff in my scenes to make my scenes or I can't make my scenes if you know what i mean.  especially as I can't model or texture anything myself.

Love esther

sorry esther.
I didnt mean to imply that you was or do.
it was just a coment on a way around a bad idea.
regards ST

Quote -  "Found nifty poser resource at market X"? - this is now considered a definite violation of the TOS.  See my original post - the top part is a quote from renderosity giving an example of what you can't say anymore and what you still can say as regards products on  other sites.  ie you can't announce anything unless you are a merchant.  then you can announce it on the product showcase forum.  But us non-merchants need to be quiet.  I think tha'ts how it works now.

Love esther

See that is why I like other forums better, cause there are more resources posted than here.  I think the TOS is seriously flawed when it comes to this example.  This is the only site in Poserdom that will not allow you to post  "Found nifty poser resource*"  *Sites like Daz, 3dCommune and even CP  will allow non site products to be announced in 1 shape or form. Maybe this is why allot of members are not buying from here because this site is no longer member friendly.

This used to be the forum to come and talk about Poser and it's products, now it is just another forum that is starting loose it's luster.

Here is something that the Rendo PTB should seriously consider.

What If we all Stopped making posts in various other Content Forums that reference Rendo Merchants and Products????
How many sales do you think that Rendo may have made, simply by another store's Topic about M4 Clothes?

Guess I will simply Stop making any references to any Rendo products from any other store's forums. Simply apply Rendo's TOS to every other forum.

Quote - Here is something that the Rendo PTB should seriously consider.

What If we all Stopped making posts in various other Content Forums that reference Rendo Merchants and Products????
How many sales do you think that Rendo may have made, simply by another store's Topic about M4 Clothes?

Guess I will simply Stop making any references to any Rendo products from any other store's forums. Simply apply Rendo's TOS to every other forum.

But only with regard to anything related to renderosity?

That actually sounds like a good idea, A sword DOES have TWO edges.

This policy seems so shortsighted to me. I think Renderosity ought to survey its forum users to determine exactly what brings people to participate in the forums.

Because for myself, I would list, first, news -- and yes I do mean there's a sale here, this is free there; second freebies -- no longer available in the Poser Forum and then help/technical information.

If a user has a very strong skillset, it could be the news and freebies were what drew them here, as they stop frequenting the forum a trickle down effect occurs until there's a danger of winding up with a forum full of frustrated beginners who can't answer each others questions.

Quote -

That actually sounds like a good idea, A sword DOES have TWO edges.

A sword may have two edges, but if either edge is dull what good is it?

in other words folks, PM your stuff to who ever, that way you arent breaking the tos, however, you would be spamming everybody and still get booted anyways.

well, being the Internet vagabond that I am, I've often found several sites get postings on stuff at the same time. It makes sense; if you're not doing freebies (often if you is...;), you want as wide a market as possible.

Maybe you guys should come up with a 'renderosity Exclusive'...stuff you won't find anywhere else. Just a thought.

This is why I've been hanging around DAZ commons more and more.  less restrictive.
Poser dends by large on additional content, and most of the quality is commercial, so I find it tough to interact and talk about Poser without bringing commercial content into it.

As a vendor, the kind of interaction I hoped for with my customers, is possible at DAZ Commons, EVEN THOUGH the product in question is Renderosity exclusive.  They don't relegate it to some forum no one goes to.

See for yourselves:  http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=98782

By the way, the thread there didn't need to get started by a third party, my friend saw the release and beat me to it.

I would have them institute a pay-per-click scheme, whereby they allow affiliates to post notices
of fab items at other stores, if said stores are already enrolled in their pay-per-click scheme.
that way we could maintain the sense of community that apparently derives from folks trying
to sell things to each other on an hourly basis.  but is that really what youse guys want?
a community of affiliates trying to beat each other to the punch with the latest must-buy item? 

So you could get a friend to ask "just the right question", then "you" pop in to answer it and we all get the "info". Or, if you know how and have another IP (work/school/public) and/or a 2nd alias, ask yourself your own question, answer it from "somewhere else" for instant advertising? This is kinda funny when I think about it. The possibilities go on, hi ho. Lets make a list, divide it up, and we can all ask question on certain days, bomb the boards (so to speak) and spread the wealth, er info I mean. The extrapolation possibilities are endless. (The extension of a relationship between two or more variables beyond the range covered by knowledge, or the calculation of a value outside that range.).....I must be in silly mode today. But hey, it's their site so lets play nice.

I like shopping, and window shopping.  I never has as much fun with poser until after I started buying  and using commercial content.

Quote - I would have them institute a pay-per-click scheme, whereby they allow affiliates to post notices
of fab items at other stores, if said stores are already enrolled in their pay-per-click scheme.
that way we could maintain the sense of community that apparently derives from folks trying
to sell things to each other on an hourly basis.  but is that really what youse guys want?
a community of affiliates trying to beat each other to the punch with the latest must-buy item? 

No what we want is hey here is a great resource or product I found with out getting treated like little children. I have seen this site go through many changes some of them good some of them bad. At one point you never had to worry if you were violating the TOS unless you where seriously stupid. Now you have to think about everything you post here and worry if it is a TOS violation if you mention a product or resource that did not come from here.

Truthfully I am surprised this thread is still alive cause of us who are questioning the TOS.

I haven't being a very active forum user since I joined like 5 years ago (different account) but I did use it A LOT for all kind of purposes, window shoping, grabing freebies, turorials and tips, and through those 5 years I NEVER had any problem with spam, excesive product advertising, or anything like that. If there was any anoying post I'd just skip it title wise and soon would fade due to little number of views and no replys.

This is what the Rendo team claims, too many complains about this kind of spam issue, but like I said, it was never a problem for me, and there has been a lot of members expressing the same, so I really dont know who are this users who complained.

Maybe users from other forums and markets who wanted to advertise their product here and were told no by the admin starded to point out the few people who did in retaliation? I'm speculating here.

It hurts everytime I come here I see fewer and fewer posts, there's a lot of people I dont see anymore that I do miss and I know were against the new TOS.

"This is why I've been hanging around DAZ commons more and more.  less restrictive.
Poser dends by large on additional content, and most of the quality is commercial, so I find it tough to interact and talk about Poser without bringing commercial content into it.

As a vendor, the kind of interaction I hoped for with my customers, is possible at DAZ Commons, EVEN THOUGH the product in question is Renderosity exclusive.  They don't relegate it to some forum no one goes to."

Ditto..If I want the scoop I go to the commons, simple as that. There is a broader range of information. I want to know whats out there when I take time to read a forum.

To add insult to injury, odds are I will get 4 times the eyes on a thread in the commons as I would in all the COMBINED marketing methods I have available here at rendo. I have to host my own images or have them in the gallery to reference if I post in the showcase forum. So it takes longer to set up for that than it does to post in the commons for waaaay less potential looks. Some how it just doesn't all add up to me as good for renderositys vendors or for me the customer either.

Why should Rendo Duplicate the commons in the Poser forum? The DAZ Commons is even set up so that advertising posts are all flagged as commercial and can be skipped by people who don't want to read commercials. Rendo would have to reprogram Bondware to do the same thing. Why should they?

Of the hundreds of people who come here daily I see maybe 20 here in the forums who have complained about this. Why keep beating dead horses? Do you just want to see more cat pictures?

What I was wondering:...
Why does Rendo still has a carrara, a daz-studio, a vue and so one forums (or is it fora)?
Is it not against the TOS when you post there? Even the poser forum would be against the TOS, because it's no Rendo-product. Or am I thinking too simple?
I think the rule is very vague and obscure: would it be against the rules when I started a thread about a new poser upgrade or what about a brand new utility for poser?
I think everyone should be relieved if there was a forum here for "foreign" input.
I suppose people are here to discuss poser products, not only rendo products, but I think this the 20th or 30th time I respond to this kind of discussion, so I think nothing will change.

best regards,

Bopper.

Edit : where did I let my cat pictures? enough dogs, but no cats when yo need them!

"Of the 13 or 14 here who appear to have a problem with this policy, how many of you already go to the DAZ Commons on a daily basis? I know I do, and I'm pretty sure most of you do as well. Why continue to bitch and moan over this when it's already allowed in a forum that you frequent nearly every day already? "

As a vendor? Because I would rather have the traffic where my products are sold since this market place gets half my income..Call me crazy, but it seems counter productive to push community members and potential customers to the competitions web pages. Worse yet I know by personal experience I end up spending more there than here. Not, mind you at the variety of web sites who's products are brought up in the commons..there at daz...And yes your right it is a "dead horse", doesn't mean I think its good for renderositys bottom line.

How about they set up a separate forum for Product Announcements?

The forum stops being a community if people can't mention new products in other stores.

[quoteAs a vendor? Because I would rather have the traffic where my products are sold since this market place gets half my income..

As a vendor "Here" you have a whole forum "Here" to post about your products. The main complaints here are people who vend off site and can't link to their products from here. You're really stretching it and your point isn't even valid. There has been a "No Advertising" policy in the Poser Forum here for YEARS. It was only recently tightened up to stop links to offsite vendors in the Poser Forums. On Site Vendors have had to post to the Market Showcase Forum for at least two years if not longer! Your adverts haven't been affected by this recent change whatsoever.

Quote - What I was wondering:...
Why does Rendo still has a carrara, a daz-studio, a vue and so one forums (or is it fora)?
Is it not against the TOS when you post there? Even the poser forum would be against the TOS, because it's no Rendo-product. Or am I thinking too simple?

First off, ALL of the Software Specific Forums here have ALWAYS been about discussing "How To Use The Software." In Poser, "How do I...."? Same for Bryce, Daz Studio, Vue, Cararra, Zbrush.... adnauseum. Advertising in those forums has always been frowned upon. Period. When the onsite vendors got moved to their own Product Showcase forum, leniency reigned for offsite vendors, but advertising was still frowned upon.  This past spring this changed and was announced loudly and clearly. No More Advertising!

There is nothing "Vague" about their software specific forum policies. Now there is no advertising period. Onsite vendors have banners and a whole forum to advertise in and off site vendors are basically out of luck. If they by chance have someone who asks, "Where can I find such and such particular item?" and they happen to have said item, then they can post a link to it and only then. Otherwise, it's off to DAZ Commons to post their adverts.

quote:- "** a vendor "Here" you have a whole forum "Here" to post about your products. The main complaints here are people who vend off site and can't link to their products from here"**

Hang on - i am the OP and I am not a vendor - just someone who doesn't want to miss a sale or some other interesting offsite poser related thing.
Love esther
PS only vendors are allowed to announce stuff in the product showcase forum.  Not me. 

Quote - Of the 13 or 14 here who appear to have a problem with this policy, how many of you already go to the DAZ Commons on a daily basis? I know I do, and I'm pretty sure most of you do as well. Why continue to bitch and moan over this when it's already allowed in a forum that you frequent nearly every day already?

For last few years that I was here almost daily, I didn't frequent DAZ commons almost at all.  It's in last few months that I'm there more and more, and here less and less.  My time is limited, and I'll go where I can make most of it.

If spend more and more time at DAZ commons, instead of on Rendo's site, it is very possible my products will follow.... as I've been accepted as a vendor there. I've been submitting my products and making them exclusive here at redo, because I was feeling more at home here. The more time I spend at DAZ, more I'll start feeling at home there.

Why not make a 'commercial free' Poser forum? Make it so that any ads and even signature ads are turned off there. Let the purists hang out there. See if that forum gathers a crowd, or dies a slow painful death of the dozen or so other dead forums here.

Quote - > Quote - As a vendor? Because I would rather have the traffic where my products are sold since this market place gets half my income..

As a vendor "Here" you have a whole forum "Here" to post about your products. The main complaints here are people who vend off site and can't link to their products from here. You're really stretching it and your point isn't even valid. There has been a "No Advertising" policy in the Poser Forum here for YEARS. It was only recently tightened up to stop links to offsite vendors in the Poser Forums. On Site Vendors have had to post to the Market Showcase Forum for at least two years if not longer! Your adverts haven't been affected by this recent change whatsoever.

We are not  talking vendors, we are talking members in general. If I come across a product I think more people what to know about, I used to come here and say "Hey I found product X at site Y and I think this could be helpful to the community."
I would love to advertise my stuff here but I am not going to due to the TOS, but in the same breath if I found a nice product I would still like to share it with a community that used to be bigger than Daz.

Quote - Of the 13 or 14 here who appear to have a problem with this policy, how many of you already go to the DAZ Commons on a daily basis? I know I do, and I'm pretty sure most of you do as well. Why continue to bitch and moan over this when it's already allowed in a forum that you frequent nearly every day already?

Why should Rendo Duplicate the commons in the Poser forum? The DAZ Commons is even set up so that advertising posts are all flagged as commercial and can be skipped by people who don't want to read commercials. Rendo would have to reprogram Bondware to do the same thing. Why should they?

Of the hundreds of people who come here daily I see maybe 20 here in the forums who have complained about this. Why keep beating dead horses? Do you just want to see more cat pictures?

1. Well, I like cats, and I like cat pictures...
2. Aside from my post earlier in this thread, I've never posted on this topic before
3. People keep posting because they may have checked DAZ occasionally, but this Forum was their primary source of information.
4. Don't be fooled into thinking that the "13 or 14" individuals (maybe 20), complaining are the sum total of people upset by this... Most people won't post, they'll just abandon the forum.

Quote -
Don't be fooled into thinking that the "13 or 14" individuals (maybe 20), complaining are the sum total of people upset by this... Most people won't post, they'll just abandon the forum.

I agree with your statement. I know members that frequent here but never post or have not posted here in years. I read several forums on a daily basis, and on one forum it has been stated that this forum is one of the most unfriendly member forum.

I personally like coming here due to it is easier to find a buried or dead thread compared to other sites.

Another new TOS eh? That always makes for some good fun.

So now it's reinforcing the offsite ad policy. tsk tsk.
And then people say things like, "this compromises my ability to enjoy the site, limits what I can post, what news I can share..." and so forth..

As for people abandoning the forum, has it occurred to anyone it'd not likely a big concern to the owners here whether you "enjoy" the forum or not? All this - the forums, the galleries, the "features" are here specifically to get you here and buying stuff, and to attract more people with loose credit cards and out-of-control Poser Marketplace Addiction.

But, you're here, you're hooked, and word is out. Have you not all noticed how over the years this place has slowly become more strict about everything?
If you can only post one picture to the gallery per day, that saves bandwidth. If the topics you can discuss become limited, that saves bandwidth. If your Free Stuff needs to be "approved" first, that saves bandwidth.

So, you can't say, "Check out this new thing at DAZ!" Should that surprise anyone? Allowing that not only possibly takes money away from here, but also opens the door for alot of insult added to injury in the form of...alot of wasted bandwidth. "Wasted", in the eyes of those who pay the bills here.

You can count on this - eventually this place will be little more than a Poser store. It's well on its way towards that now, but give it a few more years when all the old-timers have split and the new blood, who have slowly become accustomed to the new way don't see it as a community, and most of the forums have disappeared.

Renderosity is a shining example of devolution in action.

And Firefox Adblock Plus works wonders on those cat pictures. Works great on weird avatars and annoying GIF animations as well. ;-)

Quote - quote:- "** a vendor "Here" you have a whole forum "Here" to post about your products. The main complaints here are people who vend off site and can't link to their products from here"**

Hang on - i am the OP and I am not a vendor - just someone who doesn't want to miss a sale or some other interesting offsite poser related thing.
Love esther
PS only vendors are allowed to announce stuff in the product showcase forum.  Not me. 

Funny. I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to a "Vendor" who was complaining about how this affected them not you as was quite apparent by who I quoted. The fact remains that the complaints about spam advertising outweighs the complaints about not getting to advertise.

Quote - Why not make a 'commercial free' Poser forum? Make it so that any ads and even signature ads are turned off there. Let the purists hang out there. See if that forum gathers a crowd, or dies a slow painful death of the dozen or so other dead forums here.

Sorry but that just flies in the face of what the forum's main focus has always been. The software forums are about using the software, not the content. They always have been. You guys have all been here long enough to know this too.

Quote - Don't be fooled into thinking that the "13 or 14" individuals (maybe 20), complaining are the sum total of people upset by this... Most people won't post, they'll just abandon the forum.

And those who complain about the advertising don't even post their complaints. They just email admin whenever there's an advertising thread and report it. The fact remains, those who don't want adverts outweight those who do. I'm sure Rendo knows how many complaints they have in either direction and followed the numbers to come up with their rules.

I'm sorry, but you guys are seriously tilting at windmills here and until you get the numbers in your favor, there's not going to be a change. The fact that most people don't want to see the ads outnumbers your position to the contrary. That's why this thread is a cat thread or a dead horse thread. It's not going to achieve anything. Good luck with your windmill.

Quote - I'm sorry, but you guys are seriously tilting at windmills here and until you get the numbers in your favor, there's not going to be a change. The fact that most people don't want to see the ads outnumbers your position to the contrary. That's why this thread is a cat thread or a dead horse thread. It's not going to achieve anything. Good luck with your windmill.

Just call me Don Quichotte and this is my man servant Sancho

It would seem to me that just as many people should have issue with the cat crap.  I for one and sick of the cat pictures derailing damn near every thread that is ever of interest here.   It seems beyond rude to me.  To think that it is rational adults doing it is mind boggling.

Imagine a real life conversation.  Bill and Ted are discussing boost systems for thier project cars.  Maggie comes along and isn't interested in cars, or feels the conversation is pointless.  She starts screaming MY CAT MY CAT MY CAT MY CAT MY CAT - to prevent them from having the conversation.  IRL if I was Ted, Maggie would get gut checked.

So obnoxious people can interupt any and every conversation they want - BUT you can't say "there is a sale at Daz"  It's alot easier to scroll past a thread I dont want to see than to scroll past 18 retarded cat pictures to find what I want to read in a thread I am interested in.

Yeah I have to agree the cat picture posting is about the most annoying thing that happens here consistently. You'd think that adults would get over the very limited amusement value in that, but I guess not...

Pfffft!

Not a fan of ugly puppies either unfortunately. 
If I was I would go to an ugly puppy site rather than an art site.  In a rational place it would be recognized for what it is - trolling.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2754697&page=1

Anyone still unclear on where things stands can go back and read the thread link in this post.

I don't believe that was the entire purpose of this thread.  Im also pretty sure that I wouldn't have to go back through all of the posts in renderosity archives to show that rude cat derailments did not only take place in threads where someone was "stirring resentment over forum rules". 

Whatever the topic, members should have the right to discuss it as long as it is within the TOS without rude Maggies screaming MYCATMYCATMYCAT.  If you don't like the thread and really really really really want to talk about cats, why not start an OT thread (perfectly within the tos afaik) titled "We really aren't here to discuss anything other than cats" - than all of us who could give two craps less about cats can just skip them.   Just like you could skip threads that are discussing topics you lack interest in. 

I guess at this point I should disclaimer:  I don't hate cats or dogs or cute babies or little old ladies. 

Well concidering this thread popped up after two other threads on the subject were locked because the Admin's and moderators had said their piece on the subject combined with their total lack of appearance in this thread leaves me with only one assumption. They've said their piece and are done with the nonsense.

As for people having the right to restart topics in new threads to continue topics that have already been locked by admins, erm, no, I do not believe they do have the right to do so.