You can always do like we did! Throw the Tea in the harbour. :tt2:

Some of us have a very small target audience with the items we produce. We would spend more than we make trying to set up our own website and store with credit card and/or paypal access. Plus advertising isnt free either. DAZ, as much as it chokes me to say something nice about them lol, at least will let you link to your products on other sites in their forums. Rendo wont, 3DC wont. RDNA wont. Plus alot of these vendors were with these sites for years before they went out on their own. You have to have time to build a reputation for yourself.

So what choice does the starting out vendor have but to use these sites to broker our products? I would love to sell all my products at 3DC where they offer 70% commission but I dont get many sales there. I do think RMP should give more to the vendors but I dont control them. To be honest I dont buy a whole lot of items from RMP mainly because if you do get a crappy item, it is next to impossible to return it for a refund. I sell here because they have large target audience and my products sell. I just started being a vendor earlier this year and I feel the prices I ask for my packages are reasonable. I am into pose packages right now and none have less than 130 poses in each one. I sell them for $12 bucks. I feel that is fair, especially when I see a lot of other pose sets where you get 30-40 poses, some even less, and they are charging $10.

You make some valid points but at the same time it seems to me your acting like we can wave a magic wand, a personal site appears, we sell for cheaper and get all the profit. Doesn't work that way bud.

140 poses and 40 expressions for 12$ is insanely cheap if you ask me... 

***Chaosbandit:  You make some valid points but at the same time it seems to me your acting like we can wave a magic wand, a personal site appears

***Given the grinding labor I've expended in the last 8 years, I could hardly be accused of thinking or saying that somebody could wave a magic want to create a personal site, LOL.  I've created many of them and it was always a ton of work and a lot of commitment. 

I don't put much stock in magic, I've got a business that works, having started literally with nothing.  I have no idea why you would fantasize that I'm suggesting it's as simple as waving a magic wand.  That's tooooooo funneeeeee!  What I always suggest is that people invest in themselves and do whatever it takes to get the outcome they want.  If someone doesn't want to be a digital artist and make a living that way, they won't need a web presence or store of their own. 

At one time EVERYBODY starts by struggling to establish a website. I well know the cost.  But if a person aspires to create an income from creative work, the sooner they bite the bullet and create their own website/store, the better.  I had to learn everything from scratch myself, aquire programs and webdesign knowledge the old fashioned way. But the longer one is online, the more traffic and attention accrue, hence the value of starting sooner rather than later.  The fact that I started in the very bottom rung means I already KNOW what is required.  I sacrificed a lot and worked very hard to develop my own business, so I assume anybody else would have to do the same thing if they wanted ot invest in their own future.  If you don't want that, don't do it.  For sure, there's no magic about it.

Obviously I also sell through a brokerage, although my own site business brings me 3 times more than I earn from other markets.  And all the while I am cultivating my own presence online, not just building somebody else's business.  So, however hard and expensive and time consuming it is, it's been an invaluable anchor for me to have my own store.  Well worth every bit of the brainbusting work.  But I know about as well as anybody does, what it is to start on a shoestring and painstakingly  build a personal site and store online.  And yep, I still highly recommend making that commitment IF someone plans to develop a part time or full income from their own creative work.

There are no magic wands involved in ANYTHING.  Everybody starts pretty much as the same place. 

***Chaosbandit:  ome of us have a very small target audience with the items we produce.

***Well, I don't know what your goals are.  Given my goals, a small target audience is the last thing I would aim for.  But perhaps a small target audience fits your needs perfectly.  If you only want that, then you are probably right that it makes no sense for you to create your own online presence because you're not aiming to make a living from your creative work.  My remarks are obviously addressed to people who plan to make a living or at least a significant supplement to their income from their products.  So . . .people with extremely limited goals would naturally tailor their efforts accordingly.

**ChaosOutlaw

**You seem to be wanting to talk your way out of setting up on your own. It comes over as a  "my glass is half empty" rather than "half full" frame of mind.
I have the greatest respect for what you do. And I freely admit that your chosen field of expertise is light years away from mine. I would never presume to know the first thing about pose, textures or model creation. That's why I buy what I need from people like you. Likewise please respect what I do for a living which is web site creation. I run a small family business along with two of my kids. My son is a HTML coder and my daughter is a very talented graphic artist. My specialised field is with Photoshop and Flash. Together we make a great team and (touch wood) we seem to be able to still put food on the table. So I hope you will accept I know a little about web site creation and hosting.
Firstly, it does'nt have to cost an arm and a leg to set up your own website. There are hundreds of deals out there for hosting that offer a great service for little money. But I can recommend Servage.net as one of the best we ever came accross. And trust me when I tell you we've tried a hell of a lot, lol. Although we have our own dedicated server these days we still host sites with Servage for some of our clients who want to webmaster their own sites. If you don't want a dedicated merchant account for credit card payments then PayPal will cost you zilch to set up. OK their commission rates aren't the most competitive but their good enough to get you started and their a lot less than the 50% you pay Rendo. If you want a cheap but effective and secure digital delivery system then may I recommend a program called SmartDD. This software will auto respond your customers with information and download links. It will also create a client inventory database that will keep track of all your sales and customers.
When it comes to site promotion then I suggest you do what Dana (Jaguarwoman) and Lucie amongst others are doing which is include links to your site in any forum posts you make. Also send a thank you e-mail after every sale and include a site link in it and use a site dedicated e-mail address such as yourname@chaosoutlaw.com. Just say if you have any problems then please contact me through my "web site" or "e-mail". If you have returning customers then surely you would prefer them to buy direct rather than through Rendo. You can keep your Rendo listings running and hopefully wean loyal customers over to your web site. Give a freeby away  to anyone you signs up to your web site newsletter. You may be suprised how many people would sign up for 10 free poses.
I could go on and on but hopefully the above may lay to rest some of your missgivings and make it worth the time to take a look at the possibilities. It ain't going to happen over night but for some cutting loose can be the making of them.
I hope you'll give it a try and the best of luck if you do.

Yeah, what Drakmanover said.

It's well worth the cost in effort and money (not that much after all) to establish a webpresence.  No need to wave a magic wand, there are actual physical steps to take.  The path is pretty well worn so it's not like bushwhacking through the jungles of Borneo.

Ooh! Dana

Whilst your here. Are you going to be extending your "Florabunda" range?. Can't get enough of em, LOL.

I don't really forecast what I'm going to do.  I kinda have to work by my own whims, eh?

It's pretty safe to assume I'll paint more flowers of some kind, though.

Quote - **ChaosOutlaw

**You seem to be wanting to talk your way out of setting up on your own. It comes over as a  "my glass is half empty" rather than "half full" frame of mind.
I have the greatest respect for what you do. And I freely admit that your chosen field of expertise is light years away from mine. I would never presume to know the first thing about pose, textures or model creation. That's why I buy what I need from people like you. Likewise please respect what I do for a living which is web site creation. I run a small family business along with two of my kids. My son is a HTML coder and my daughter is a very talented graphic artist. My specialised field is with Photoshop and Flash. Together we make a great team and (touch wood) we seem to be able to still put food on the table. So I hope you will accept I know a little about web site creation and hosting.
Firstly, it does'nt have to cost an arm and a leg to set up your own website. There are hundreds of deals out there for hosting that offer a great service for little money. But I can recommend Servage.net as one of the best we ever came accross. And trust me when I tell you we've tried a hell of a lot, lol. Although we have our own dedicated server these days we still host sites with Servage for some of our clients who want to webmaster their own sites. If you don't want a dedicated merchant account for credit card payments then PayPal will cost you zilch to set up. OK their commission rates aren't the most competitive but their good enough to get you started and their a lot less than the 50% you pay Rendo. If you want a cheap but effective and secure digital delivery system then may I recommend a program called SmartDD. This software will auto respond your customers with information and download links. It will also create a client inventory database that will keep track of all your sales and customers.
When it comes to site promotion then I suggest you do what Dana (Jaguarwoman) and Lucie amongst others are doing which is include links to your site in any forum posts you make. Also send a thank you e-mail after every sale and include a site link in it and use a site dedicated e-mail address such as yourname@chaosoutlaw.com. Just say if you have any problems then please contact me through my "web site" or "e-mail". If you have returning customers then surely you would prefer them to buy direct rather than through Rendo. You can keep your Rendo listings running and hopefully wean loyal customers over to your web site. Give a freeby away  to anyone you signs up to your web site newsletter. You may be suprised how many people would sign up for 10 free poses.
I could go on and on but hopefully the above may lay to rest some of your missgivings and make it worth the time to take a look at the possibilities. It ain't going to happen over night but for some cutting loose can be the making of them.
I hope you'll give it a try and the best of luck if you do.

Drakmanover

Maybe after I have established myself yes. And I do know how to set up my personal website, I have a premium 250Free site. Working on setting it up now. But you have to pay to have PayPal or the credit card companies make your site able to accept payment. You also have to maintain that site, something I am not experienced in and with all the learning on my plate I have no wish to start another learning curve at this time. This may come in the future but right now it is not financially feasible to do. As stated before I am just starting out.. You made some good points but its not as easy as you are stating it. I would actually have to raise prices. I believe it is around $150 a month to have credit card access on your site I am not sure about PayPal. Some months I dont make that.  And just putting link in your forum posts isn't great advertising. I have looked into this a little cuz I feel that both DAZ and RMP really undercut the vendors. When I have made a name for myself with loyal customers and alot more steady income this might happen.

As for JaguarBroad (figured since she twisted my name and tried to insinuate I am a thief or something I would return the favor) I am glad you are doing something with your stuff, I wasn't talking to you though. And the name is ChaosOutlaw, I am not a bandit, I have never stolen anything in my life other than a few womens hearts. Don't know why you chose to insult me when I was neither insulting or crude in my post. Whatever.

Hey I dont like to come across as a jerk, and I do appreciate the info you supplied Drak. I will keep that in mind for the future. I dont like being insulted though and trying to call me a thief by twisting my name isnt cool. Sorry for the rant.

Wait! I didn't intentionally twist your name, ChaosOutlaw.  I have no idea what you are talking about with the "insinuation that you are a thief".  That's way too big of a logic leap for me.  Not only was it just a mistake in attention, I had no such thought in my mind.  Just a hasty post. 

ChaosOutlaw.  Got it. 

Yep, I am completely innocent of trying to twist or corrupt your name for any purpose at all.  And everybody who knows me would tell you that if I wanted to insult somebody, I'm much more direct than that.  But then . . .I'm not actually a jaguar either so it wouldn't cross my mind that you were an actual bandit or an outlaw or derive any meaning whatsoever from those words. Actually, I'm . . . uh . . .stupefied that you thought I was trying to do that.

Please, spare yourself the idea that I was purposely twising your nickname.  It's just not so.

Well, peace then. Just came across to me that way. Guess my skin is thin today. Good luck with your website.

You don't have to accept cc directly on your site, people can make payments with their cc through paypal even if they don't have a paypal account. Paypal takes a very small amount off the payments you receive, but it's really not very much...  Once your shopping cart is installed, there really isn't much maintenance to do on it, you just upload your products in it very much the same way you upload products here, people buy your products, pay through paypal, the cart sends them a download link automatically once the payment is received and that's it...  There are some free shopping carts on the net (Zencart is one of them, that's the one I use) I paid someone to install it for me because I wanted it done by someone who knew what they were doing, but many people install it themselves, apparently it's not that hard.  Just thought I'd let you know about this so you stop thinking it's more complicated then it really is and let that stop you...  ;)

**ChaosOutlaw

**I think you might have misinterpreted Jaguarwomans post. As far as I can see she is just trying to encourage you to take the web site route rather than soley lining Rendos pockets. Dana (Jaguarwoman) is very experienced in promoting her online business and I personally agree with everything she has written. Commitment is the number one requirement when starting an online business. It's not a sprint but a marathon that has no finishing line. No matter how successful your product is there will come a time when it becomes out dated. So you must be constantly looking to bring in new products and idea's to stay up with the pack. There will be times of dispair when you start to wonder whether it's worth it. But you have to keep up the pace or you'll just become another an also ran. ALL of the successful web businesses in this world have gone through tough times (including Rendo). And it's only the dedication and determination of the people behind the business that can ensure it's success.
Why do you say that you cater to a small niche market?. That statement alone suggests you have no real desire to promote or expand. Everyone who uses Poser is your potential customer and that's one hell of a big market!. 

Lastly, on the subject of taking credit card payments. PayPal is totally free to setup and start taking payments on your web site. In fact a lot of potential customers prefer to use PayPal because they don't have to give their credit card detail's online everytime they make a purchase. Many of our web site clients ask us to set up a PayPal gateway in addition to their merchant accounts as it offers their customers more payment options. You must remember that not everyone has a credit card and yet a lot of people may well have money sitting in their PayPal accounts from sales they make on eBay and other online auctions. In my opinion ANY online business that ignores PayPal is making a big mistake. And the same could be said of Google and some of the other up and coming secure payment gateways. But PayPal is the leader at present and is the best fee free option for small traders and limited budget startup's at present.