I used mencoder on Linux to bring the size down. I'm sure there are similar programs for Windows and Mac, but I wouldn't know about these things.

Well here's a little animation of this hip in action.  I'm not a good animator but you get the idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U_v92_Qs3o

Cheers

Mike.

That looked kind of creepy, actually. I just hope Google won't sue you for animated girl parts. :biggrin:

But very impressive otherwise. And definitely useful for posing. No more adjusting the upper body to compensate for changes in the hip position.

Excellent work, Mike!

 Phantom.....?

That....
Was.....

COOOOOOL......

Just to be a keyframe nerd, if she had come up on the balls of her feet more, with just a tad more flexion in her knees, the illusion would have been perfect (that was actually more a bump and grind than hula hoop, but  nevertheless.... ;P 

That said....

That new rig of yours looks incredible. That is pretty much the first time I've seen a Poser figure with that kind of flexibility in the hips (at least without exploding into facets at the seams...). Females walk cycles are definitely going to be more 'feminine' with that rig. Hell, with that kind of action, it opens up the window a bit more for things like bellydance (still not fully possible without a lot of work and softbody dynamics in the torso region, but the hip action is now possible). Let us know when the packages are available! And for which meshes. Maybe you could get your head together with pitklad and give Natalia a new set of booty bones, as well...... :D

Quote - That looked kind of creepy, actually. I just hope Google won't sue you for animated girl parts. :biggrin:

But very impressive otherwise. And definitely useful for posing. No more adjusting the upper body to compensate for changes in the hip position.

Excellent work, Mike!

  I know, but it was my first ever animation :) You can see the potential though for all sorts of stuff. CAREFULL! That butt might snap you up!!!

Thanks Dale B  I'mm excited about it, it's been a holy grail for me, to get something like this to work together with IK and not explode.

amusing video.

suggested videos

I would be ecstatically happy if posers hips could bend 90 degrees.

setting on a invisible chair

bending down setting on her feet with her knees bent ?

karate kicks

I've done 2 or 3 animations in my life, but that was GREAT! LOLOLOL :laugh:  OMG, that would work for someone's booty-call video! :lol: A dangerous booty, indeed! :lol:

A much better exposure of the ball and socket joint of the hip than Poser had before. VERY impressive!

Quote - amusing video.

 

suggested videos

 

I would be ecstatically happy if posers hips could bend 90 degrees.

setting on a invisible chair

bending down setting on her feet with her knees bent ?

karate kicks

Someone should definitely make a bunch of videos like that to show off Phantom's new rig.

I'm not an animator myself, but I might give it a shot. Seeing it in motion is probably the best way of testing how much realism one can get out of that rig.

Here's a second little clip, this one is done with IK off. This just uses Hip2 we still have the normal Poser hip for even better action, but for these two clips I just wanted to show what can be done with Hip2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snpo5hDM4Lg

Cheers,

Mike.

Amazing!! everytime I see your riggs I wonder why after 8 generations of poser no one came up with this before, fantastic work.

Wow!

Those clips are incredible.
The movement of the hip looked very natural, and the bending of the thigh looked wonderful.
Thanks a bunch for the clips!
Now, I can't wait.

Quote - Amazing!! everytime I see your riggs I wonder why after 8 generations of poser no one came up with this before, fantastic work.

Until Phantom made his accidental discovery, no one though of a good way to do it before.  That is geniuos. Figuring out a way to do something in front of everyone, that ANYONE could have figured out and DIDN'T.

Those were wild clips! :lol:

Killer,

A new age for Poser, Begins.

I can't wait to buy the rig!

Quote - > Quote - Amazing!! everytime I see your riggs I wonder why after 8 generations of poser no one came up with this before, fantastic work.

Until Phantom made his accidental discovery, no one though of a good way to do it before.  That is geniuos. Figuring out a way to do something in front of everyone, that ANYONE could have figured out and DIDN'T.

Those were wild clips! :lol:

Yeah, and I noticed people were too worried about how human body works, how the hip doesn't bend, and of course we don't have 2 hips @_@ lol, but Phantom3D sacrificed correct anatomic represantiation with practical methods and made it work.

I know. People get so wrapped up in 'anatomical correctness' that they forget the job of an animator is to -simulate- anatomically correct =movement=. Which usually seems to take quite a few more controls than anyone ever expects....

And Mike, just be prepared for the naysayers and whiners. Anton did some creative rigging in his Apollo Maximus figure, and got a lot of static from the crowd that was scared of the extra dials. There's a bigger group of animators now who will appreciate the work, and more experienced posers who will also like the extra control and motion range, but there will be those who fear that which is not DAZ standard (or simply refuse to excercise the required brain cells to ride the learning curve....meow....).

Absolutely amazing, Mike.

We cannot achieve the extraordinary until we achieve the ordinary.  To achieve completely normal movement IS possible, but very difficult. This is another step in the direction.  We still don't have natural hand movements and the feet need work, BUT we are getting there slowly but surely.

It's not so much a matter of modeling, but a combination of model+rigging.

I'd like to thank you for pushing the envelope further than most others have, Mike.  It needs to pushed further, but you have kicked some ass this week, and I, for one, really appreciate your hard work.  Good going, man!:thumbupboth:

Did someone in this thread mention wanting a model with a rigg that could do ballet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh5Z1T3IUYw  I think this is about as perfect as I'm going to get the rigg, now just JCM's and it's finished.

Quote - Did someone in this thread mention wanting a model with a rigg that could do ballet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh5Z1T3IUYw  I think this is about as perfect as I'm going to get the rigg, now just JCM's and it's finished.

That looks totally amazing. I've never seen a Poser figure move even remotely like that.

Before you start with the JCM's, we should probably do a merge so that you work on the final mesh. I'm almost finished, only have to add some details to the toenails and lacrimals.

I mentioned about the ballet myself, Mike.  Maybe there were others.
I also mentioned about doing yoga poses.

The footage looked really cool. I love it !
Great work !!!!

I forgot to say how amazing your work really is.
For that matter, how innovative and fantastic what you are trying to do, really.
And, um..you know what I mean....

Phantom,your rigging method could finally close the gap between Poser and rigging in professional Apps.So poser users can finally benefit from not having that ugly distorted crotches that are so typical for Poser figures.Do you also have solutions for the shoulders ?

Thanks, everyone.

Timberwolf, yes I do have some rigging for the shoulders. Most of it has been done befor but I set them up a bit differently and use the collar much mor in the shoulder bends.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/media/folder_9/file_416629.jpg

Very impressive.  I can't wait to buy this rig m'self.

Yes, previous riggers made the same mistake that flyers made studying birds:  they felt they had to duplicate the method to duplicate the results. Phantom3D, like the Wright Brothers and others, looked at the underlying principles instead.

Well done, sir!

(Now I have to go back and catch up on the thread to see how it all started.)

Thanks Thalek,  I'm almost done with a totally new rigg I am creating for Antonia an original model by odf.

Some pics of the hip rigging here:  http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2757461

Here's the Antonia thread:   http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2753785

And for how it all started here is the original development thread for my own models Brad and Angie.   http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2728435

I'll check those articles out, Phantom3D.

Eight pages down, and three more threads to visit.  [wry smile]  Plus I've neglected to check Antonia out . . .

Quote - Eight pages down, and three more threads to visit.  [wry smile]  Plus I've neglected to check Antonia out . . .

Ya there is a lot of pages in some of those threads, and most of it is just chit chat, some interesting things to read though if you're good at skimming over the chit chat.  LOL

So where are you with release? This is looking very exciting.

I think Antonia is pretty close to release, You would have to check with odf.  I am next working on rerigging Koji 1 with this rigg and it should not take too long since the rigg is already worked out. Anyway I'm going to offer the rerigged figure as a freebie.  It has to be RTE encoded.  I hope that I will also be able to offer the remade morphs for the figure also RTE encoded.

My own figures I have not even looked at them since I went unemployed but now since I am back to my old job I have much more time to work on them so they are comming too, but first look for some rerigged older figures (Hiro, Koji, V3, V1, Don)

Mike, Koji 1 that is cool... I am a big James P6 fan. The morphs don't need to be encoded... they just need to be "stripped" I think... you could just load them on a .cr2 that has all the native morphs removed with svld's script and that .cr2 could be a donor .cr2 from which the morphs could be loaded with MorphManager, that was the old way of distributing morphs. Maybe someone could convert them to a .pmd and .pmd injection pose for you. But if you use James instead of Koji maybe you could just supply your working .cr2 since it used to be that the figures that shipped with Poser could be redistributed as complete .cr2 files... see the complete Judy and Don .cr2s in freestuff.

James too, I liked the James mesh and I looked at it earlier and it looks like it would be favorable for this rigg.

Yes I don't think I quite understand the legalities of all this , will have to do research.  I do know that if I distribute any part of the mesh it must be RTE encoded so that the person getting it must have the original. There was another way I read about which just creates a difference file and you ship that so that you are not shipping anything of the original.

We will have to figure this all out when the time comes, So any advice - help would be apreciated.

cheers,

Mike.

Yeah, the mesh must be encoded as a difference file with either Objaction Mover or RTEncoder which are both simple freeware. An other method is to just create a .uvs with UVmapper Classic if you are changing only materials or grouping and not deforming the mesh...

As for morphs, Daz permits distribution of only certain LE .cr2s for only certain figures and no .cr2s at all for other figures so morphs for them must be provided in INJpose that have all but the delta lines stripped or as stripped .obj that must be loaded as morphs by importing. There was a time though when people distributed orginal morphs using a stripped down .cr2 as a "Morph Donor" or "Carrier .cr2" to hold morphs that would then be moved onto the default DAZ .cr2... even FBMs could be distributed that way if the end user is willing to use Morph Manager.

Characters for Poser native figures such as Don and Judy used to be de-stributable by .cr2 (but with the base .obj for the .cr2 encoded if that was non-standard) but I don't know if it was permited for the figures sold seperatly such as Miki and Koji. Morphs for those are usually distributed as INJposes that read .pmd files created by Poser with the store Morph Externally option.

Morphs can be distributed as body part or single .obj imported as morphs by scripts and there are several scripts around that can automate this loading to one degree or another, some free.

What I think would be cool is if someone released a free script that vendors and freebie providers could use that would load stripped .obj files as morphs! Something whereby the artist could supply say a single stripped .obj in a geometry folder and the script could load that geometry on to the body parts as morphs -- the artist could simply edit in the path to thier morph geometry and save that as a varient of the script to de-stribute with the character... that would be such a nice alternative to this INJ and PMD system of distributing morphs! Maybe you could ask ockham or svdl for such a script. Maybe ADP?

I know how to do INJ/REM files and I know how to Make .OBJ files for morphs.  My concern is to not step on any toes and do things in the acceptably legal manor so as not to violate whatever the rules are. 

For instance I have heard wildly varying  "advice" on redistributing the standard morphs that come with a figure from it's not allowed in any circumstance to it's perfectly fine if it's RTE encoded. The standard morphs that come with the figure in some instances would need to be converted for these riggs because of the changes to the groups.

I've heard that it's not allowed at all to redistribute any part of the mesh to it's ok with RTE, how does anyone ever work with out clearly defined rules? And then heaven forbid you make a mistake, you'll be crucified and blackballed for life.

How for instance is GND3 redistributed? It must be ok under some unknown rules to redistribute things RTE?

Of course I guess with something like Morphing clothes people could convert the morphs themselves.

If I make a mistake and will be dragged through the trash, set upon and beaten by this oh so wonderfull "comunity" then I don't want to offer anything at all. Maybe no one really know's the rules?  Or the rules depend on who you are? Does anyone really know and can say this is written in stone?

momodot: you have always had good advice  and so I listen. I think it may be the best advice to do it using the .uvs idea and my own cr2 using a few polygons for anchor and people will have to just do the conversions themselves. That way there is nothing of anyone elses involved.

What is a stripped .obj file? 

I've been working on Hiro and have him bending very well.  I will post some pics shortly. I'm waiting on UPS to get Koji 1, the only way I could get him was to purchase the introduction to poser DVD. 

I wish I could just give this rigg to S/M and they could use it , then I wouldn't have to worry about all this stuff. That would be great, then people could have the riggs, and I don't have to die for it.

cheers,

Mike.

RTE encoded is legal and fine because you must prove to the program that you have the KEY file. If  you do a V4 anything and RTE encode versus a V4 installer,obj or whatever outfit,etc. you must HAVE the whatever!  If you sell anything in this format, for god's sake--HAVE IT KEYED RIGHT!

I've bought stuff from vendors and find out that they didn't have it keyed right.  You can't tell what it's keyed to, just what DOESN'T work!  Make sure the readme says what the key is and where it's commonly located at.

Other than that, I've never had ANY problem with RTE encoding. Plenty of vendors here use it on merchandise, so there are no problems with it, I know of.

On the other survey thread, send a sitemail to the SM contact and ask him for aid in giving the rigg over to SM, I think, they'd JUMP at it!  I'm ready to jump and I don't have any interest other than personal!:laugh:

Here: www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php You need to contact thinkcooper.

I think I will do that, I'm going to get Koji put together and send it to them and see what they say.

I think some of the existing figures will profit a lot from the new rig. I just played a bit with Miki 1 the other day, which I love, but realized that her grouping is just abysmal. With Jessi, the falloff zones on the fingers are off, so when you make hand poses, you get sharp creases between the groups. I haven't looked at the male figures much, but I assume things are similar there.

In short, if you sold new rigs for the figures I have, I would sure as hell buy them.

I did not know you could RTE encode morphs. A stripped .obj is an .obj where all the non-delta lines are removed so the orginal mesh can not be extracted - the delta describe the vertice displacement of the morph without describing the initial vertice placement. There was a free app for stripping and there are instructions for doing it by hand at Morph World 3. PhilC's Poser Tool Box has a script for stripping.The morphs saved to a .cr2 are stripped by Poser so you can create a donor .cr2 with just the most basic structure and no geometry at all... just the correct headers etc, and the body parts to hold the morphs... you load the morphs into that with Morph Manager and people can copy them enmass body part by body part from that with Morph Manager. One last method I have seen is to write a INJpose for a figure without INJchannels and then have the user create those channels by spawning morphs off of a magnet which the INJpose can then write into.

Oh cool I didn't know you could do that with an obj.

Yes you can RTE just about anything, basically it encrypts the file and will only open it and install it if it detects the Key file, which would usually be the original OBJ or Morph installation files.

Miki2 and the G2 females are my favourite Poser figures .Just for mentioning in case you asked for a wish list. ;) wink,wink

**Timberwolf-

**I will put them down on the list.

A squashed obj for morph target distribution contains only the vertex data v lines, not the polygon data f lines.  So it's just a point cloud, completely useless except for import as a morph.  You can hand-edit a .obj file to delete everything except the v lines.

I'm really eager to see the rig!  I keep trying to set up something, based on what I've read in these threads, using CR2 editing.  But I can't find any combination of changes which doesn't lead to problems which negate any benefits.  So I'm wondering whether this somehow requires a trick of the setup room to create.  Ah, to have a CR2 to examine, to study the internals!  :D

Hi Cage. How's it?

Did you see this thread?    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2757461

This is the new hip rig I've been working on much better than the old one. I put it in Antonia, an original model by odf.  It looks broken but it's not. It might be some weirdness of the settup room that makes it work I don't know why it works, it seems like it shouldn't. It was a devil to set up. 

I'm not sure what's causing the bone-handling oddity in the setup room.  I avoid the setup room as thoroughly as possible.  I still use the old .phi method to build my figures.  But your rig seems to be hard to achieve using the .phi/joint editor/cr2 editor method to which I'm accustomed.  I can't wait to be able to look at a sample .cr2.

Antonia looks fabulous!  How are you getting the wrinkles on her side, with the deep bend?  Is there a JCM involved in the setup, as well as your new rig and various body handles?

I guess I can't complain about Poser's useless joints any longer, huh?  I can only complain about my lack of skill and/or vision as a user of Poser's joints.... 

Posers useless joints are pretty hard to work with they absolutely drive me nuts sometimes. 

No JCM's of any kind yet just straight rigging and fallof zones ect. The only body handles she has right now are in the breasts.  The wrinkles you are seeing are from the way the geometry is put together, the grouping and rigg. Most figures have geometrical formations that you can take advantage of with the groups and rigging.

The CR2 should be available pretty soon. I would like to give the rigg to Smith Micro and see if they will use at least some of it.

Hum......so what's happened to Brad or whatever his name was?