As mentioned in another thread, I decided to upgrade from Vue6 Infinite to  Vue7 Complete instead of Infinite after reading the comparison at e-on. It was only after using Complete that I noticed that I couldn't change the exposure and contrast for an Environment Map - which I had been able to do in Vue6 Infinite.
Rutra pointed out that this was indeed documented in the comparison list, but under "Import/Export" - which hadn't particularly interested me. My Mistake. 
I asked e-on about the possibility of upgrading, here's the answer:-

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/support/ShowMessage.php?id=1229787101

Am I the only one that is a little bit surprised??

Rob

im not suprised...
E-ON totaly lost all connections with this world ...
We are just little fish now they are working with the big movie company's ...
E-ON is getting worse and worse ..
I have V7 compl. and all i mnaged to make is screen caps of errors ..

Its wasted cash ...
And no update or fix in sight because E-on just act like nothing is wrong witrh it...

Enjoy your Vue ..pffffff

Chris

Hi Rob,
I'm so disappointed with e-on's response to you. I was sure they will add a way to sidegrade from complete to infinite...I m pretty sure complete will be suitable for me. I looked at the comparison table very carefully, but I wont really know till I try. 5 days to make up my mind is ridiculous...I'll need to suspend all other aspects of living and marathon vue:) If at least there was a ple version to try out!

I added a comment to your ticket, but I also submitted my own to make sure I get a reply. I hope they'll change their mind - why wouldnt they want some of my money now and possibly some more later? Makes no business sense.

OT, but I still can't see why the download version is the same price as the boxed manual version.  What gives?

Quote - Hi Rob,
I'm so disappointed with e-on's response to you. I was sure they will add a way to sidegrade from complete to infinite...I m pretty sure complete will be suitable for me. I looked at the comparison table very carefully, but I wont really know till I try. 5 days to make up my mind is ridiculous...I'll need to suspend all other aspects of living and marathon vue:) If at least there was a ple version to try out!

I added a comment to your ticket, but I also submitted my own to make sure I get a reply. I hope they'll change their mind - why wouldnt they want some of my money now and possibly some more later? Makes no business sense.

I'm in agreement with the views here - I cannot understand why E-on would not offer a Complete to Infinite upgrade. Perhaps they have a misguided notion that everyone will decide "what the heck" and go for Infinite.

My own emails with E-on have not satisfied me that Complete is not an upgrade dead end. In view of this I have decided not to make any purchase at all, for now. So Eon has lost my business in the meantime.

E-on's own replies have been rather blunt and unhelpful, giving nothing away about future plans, but then E-on is not the friendliest company towards their customer base.

It was different of course when some of my images were requested for use in their advertising - then I found them very helpful indeed.

Quote -
I'm in agreement with the views here - I cannot understand why E-on would not offer a Complete to Infinite upgrade. Perhaps they have a misguided notion that everyone will decide "what the heck" and go for Infinite.

My own emails with E-on have not satisfied me that Complete is not an upgrade dead end. In view of this I have decided not to make any purchase at all, for now. So Eon has lost my business in the meantime.

E-on's own replies have been rather blunt and unhelpful, giving nothing away about future plans, but then E-on is not the friendliest company towards their customer base.

It was different of course when some of my images were requested for use in their advertising - then I found them very helpful indeed.

I think it is quite clear that they want to SHARPLY segment their offer into the hobby and professional segments, with NO connection between the two.

I myself am thinking really hard about this: the price difference until the end of the month between Pro->Complete and Pro->Infinite is 199$ and the thought that in the future there might be a hard divergence in functionalities between the two lines is both troubling and quite real.

I am sorry that people in this forum are upset by E-On behaviour, but this is the usual behaviour of any firm that knows that it is the de-facto monopolist of its market segment. IBM attitude changed only when the compatible mainframes market was in full swing, try asking Microsoft for non Windows compatibility, try asking Apple for non Mac platforms, just have a look at the Darth Vader attitude of AutoDesk (...hope that I will not change again the conditions of the deal).

The options are quite clear: either get Complete, saving some bucks now, with the very real possibility of selecting an underperforming path in the future, or do what E-On wanted all of us to do from the beginning of this operation, i.e. bite the bullet and get Infinite. B.T.W., I saw that they added a 5 Infinite to 7 Infinite upgrade option to the price list which makes the lack of the Complete->Infinite option even more striking.

Bye!!! and remember that with the cost of Infinite you can get a decent digital reflex camera...

 I believe e-on WILL provide a Complete to Infinite upgrade path in the future.

It doesn't makes sense that E-on wouldn't provide an upgrade from Complete.  Just keep checking back with their online store when they have new bundles/specials.

I too was interested in a Complete > to Infinite upgrade and was more than surpised at E-ons response that there is none. As you say, until you've tried the program you don't know what you will need . The one thing I intensely dislike with Complete is the default start up screen with the difference in camera angle from VUE6 I  I know it is no great thing to do to create your own start up screen LOL!!!!  But why is it different?????? Makes absolutely no sense.

 Actually Lindans, I don't think in Complete you can do your own start up screen :(

Jon

No, there is no option for this, I created a screen with the settings I wanted and save it as Vue scene and open this on startup but of course you have to rename it when you save or it changes with your saves. LOL!!

Hey TH,

Thanks for the heads-up on the situation and sorry to hear about yours, (It will only be a matter of time as mentioned in other threads before E-on have an upgrade route IMHO).
Still! I have my copy of Vue 7 complete  now' and all seems well,  I still think complete is a great upgrade from V6i and a bargain to boot. 

Chris

E-on answered TH's ticket to say he can return his complete version and get inf instead even though the 5 day limit has expired. I got a copy of this reply because I asked about it too, however, they did not notice that my question is somewhat different -I havnt purchased yet, I want to know BEFORE I buy if I'll be able to change to inf. So I asked again, more specifically, and also whether the time limit will not apply at all if you want to switch to inf rather than just cancel your purchase.
I'm hoping it is a general policy, not just a pacifying 'one off' for TH. (although I'm happy your problem is resolved, TH)
Chris - I agree the upgrade to complete seems a good deal, but even at that price I would like to make sure it isnt a dead end. Let us know how it goes and if you really miss any of the options inf has and complete doesnt.

Yup, I am now the proud owner of Infinite..... 
Pnina, I think your input at e-on helped the process a lot, so I'd like to thank you for that right here and now :-)

Rob

Well, if it did I'm very happy about it! Now, I'm hoping it will help me, and other potential customers too, I'm still waiting for them to confirm that this is now their general policy. Have fun!

Oh, I did get a reply from e-on:

*We completely understand your frustration, especially with not being able to test Vue 7 Complete before your purchase.

The reason why there is no upgrade from Vue 7 Complete to Vue 7 Infinite is because we have splitted our product line into:

Artist line of Products and Professional Products
If you wish to review mor details, please see our newsletter dated October 17, 2008. Here is the link:

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/about/newsletter/?page=2

We will release the PLE versions of Infinite and Complete soon. Maybe you could wait for the PLE version to make your decision.

If you want to order Vue 7 Complete now, we will be able to cut you a deal if you find that Vue 7 Complete does not satisfy your needs and you wish to use Vue 7 Infinite instead. However, it will be slidely more expensie than going direct from Vue 6 Infinite to Vue 7 Infinite. Do not worry about the 5 day period, we will extent this as long as the PLE is not available.

So:
Their explanation for why they chose to do it this way (no path for complete->infinite upgrade) is...because we chose to do it this way:)

**** I think people can safely buy complete now, while there is no PLE version, and change it to infinite if they dont like it (with 15%  penalty).
However, they didnt say explicitly that this 'deal' is for everyone not just for me because I bugged them, so I would suggest asking first. They seem quite quick and fairly flexible.
I still think they are mistaken not to have the upgrade path and I may ask them again for a better explanation later today, but the compromise isnt too bad in my opinion.

That sounds like "please dear e-on, if I buy 7Complete now, can I update to Infinite later?"
Like it.

Rob

Two points to ponder:

1. I noticed that E-On removed the time-limit on the upgrade offer for Infinite, so now we have no hurry to decide (and more time to fill the piggy bank );
2. Infinite large plant pack is similar to a bundle I saw on Cornucopia, which is priced 199$, so you have also this to factor into bean counting.

Every day I am personally leaning more towards Infinite, especially now that we are not pressed to make up  our minds within the end of January.

Bye!!!

I had exactly the same reply as Pnina - must be a standard email. But on further investigation, I was told it would cost around $500 (yes folks that's FIVE hundred) to upgrade from Complete to Infinite.

So you may as well scrap your Complete purchase, and re-upgrade from 6I tp 7I (if you can!), otherwise you're losing another 100 bucks.

The cost of upgrading Infinite to Complete is not taken into account in the "deal" price at all.

What are these people thinking?!??!?!?!?

Check out the email conversation here - link

Thanks
Richard

Attached Link: My ticket at e-on

Richard, I think there MUST be some misunderstanding in the responses you got. I just called them up and was told the final compromise is: I upgrade now from v6i to v7complete BEFORE the PLE is released for $99. I have 1 month from the date of my purchase to decide if I want to upgrade to infinite. If I decide to do so, they will 'cancel' my purchase of complete, as they did for TH, and I'll get back the purchase amount minus 15%. (So I'll get back about $84), Then I can upgrade v6inf->v7inf for the usual $395. So by buying complete first and then moving to infinite you only lose about $15 compared to buying v7inf directly. I think perhaps they thought you'r buying the software for the first time, rather than upgrading? She does seem to read the tickets very selectively:)

I still dont understand their generalpolicy, and think they are making a mistake not enabling an official upgrade path. I was told on the phone I can ask to have my question forwarded to 'someone who knows' which I will probably do, but I see you tried that and didnt get to far...

I think at th emoment I will probably go for the compromise they offered. I'm not upgrading to inf at the moment thta's for sure. I'm about to summarize 'my understanding' as a result of the phone conversation in the ticket so I have a written record  of the agreement. I imagin you can refer to my ticket if you want the same deal.

Hi

Thanks for that ...

Yes that does make sense - it was only in a later message that I mentioned my existing V6I license.

I can't read your ticket though - it's "only available to the initiator of the ticket".

On Cornucopia, one post suggested that the current upgrade prices were time limited - do you know anything about that?

Thanks
Richard

Weird about the ticket - I wast aware I did anything to make it a secrete. Maybe they did so that nobody else knows about the fantastic(?) deal they are offering me:)
These are the latest exchanges:
--------- Hi Pnina,

I hope you understand that we cannot grant you a return for the software after 3-4 months, however a months period seems to be reasonable as long as the PLE version is not available.

If the PLE is not out by the time you order the software, the 4 weeks return will the valid. You can always refer to this thread as a proof.

You will have the ability to move up to Infinite later, without losing
all the investment. You will however lose some of this investment, because
it is more expensive to go from this way and switch product line than get Inifnite directly.

Best regards.
Selena Porter
  Posted by: David Osguthorpe
On: 2009/01/09 11:37:44
Selena,
Thanks again for your answer. I have just been on the phone to your offices and talked to one of your representatives (Lee). I just wanted to be absolutely clear I understand it correctly. She looked at my ticket and agreed with my interpretation:
I upgrade now from v6i to v7complete BEFORE the PLE is released for $99.
I have 1 month from the date of my purchase to decide if I want to upgrade to infinite. If I decide to do so, you will 'cancel' my purchase of complete, and I'll get back the purchase amount minus 15%. (So I'll get back about $84), Then I can upgrade v6inf->v7inf for the usual $395.
She suggested I put this understanding into my ticket so there is a written record.
Please can you confirm.

I find this a reasonable compromise for the immediate problem and will probably put in the order before the weekend is over.
However, I'm still puzzled about your general policy, and would like to pursue it with someone else if you cant add anything else. (No disrespect intended -you have been helpful, but perhaps dont have the knowledge/authority to answer my general question).

Pnina ---------------------------
I just noticed something I missed - she says   "You will have the ability to move up to Infinite later, without losing all the investment."

That looks hopeful - maybe they will have an upgrade path later on, they just dont want to say it now? Weird.

About the dates - I cant see any limitation now (except for v5 upgrades). Alex's post above seems to suggest there was one and it was removed.

Hi

That's helpful thanks ... my head is spinning with all the different permutations!

I might wait until the PLEs come out - my support conversation with Selena Porter mentioned that BOTH packages (Complete & Infinite) will have a PLE ... maybe this will get round your dilemma too?

Of course this is assuming the prices are fixed, which it seems they are - I can find no mention of a time limit on the current prices.

Thanks again
Richard

Quote - Hi
Of course this is assuming the prices are fixed, which it seems they are - I can find no mention of a time limit on the current prices.

The first version of the price list showed that special offers for upgrades to 7 Infinite/xStream were valid until the end of Jan '09. Currently, this time limit is still in effect ONLY for xStream upgrades (marked by red figures in E-in price list page).

This is somewhat sensible, because xStream is a tool for professionals, who don't have to make up their minds, they have just to get it to do their job; while Infinite is also a proposition for super-dedicated hobbiests (who need time to think about it, drool upon it and fill the piggy bank).

If E-On releases PLE versions of both Comple and Infinite, we will be able to make an informed choice.

Bye!!!

P.S.: E-On has somewhat changed their policy in the last weeks: first hint at a separation of lines without mention to upgrade policies, then enforce a harsh upgrade policy requiring a great leap of faith, then settling (at least until now :sneaky:) for at least giving us the tools to make an informed choice... file in the our-marketing-has-crystal-clear-plans folder.

E-on does intend to release PLEs for both versions, accoding to Selena Porter of E-on support.

Thanks
Richard