If you're a Brit, this will concern you![

http://news.aol.co.uk/email-law-attack-on-civil-liberty/article/20090109023849652871266](http://news.aol.co.uk/email-law-attack-on-civil-liberty/article/20090109023849652871266)

More of idiot George Bush's far reaching stupidity citing the 'War on Terror' as an excuse, I suppose.  I'm so glad that numbskull is finally moving out of the White House, here.

 He has influenced the world and found the worst in us all....
for his departure....
www.fingersalutetobush.org/

I know European governments are more progressive than the US is, but why do the people there so easily capitulate to such "Orwellian" intrusions in their lives like the CC cameras, etc? However, we Americans are not far behind in handing over our privacy rights to the government!

Never fear, this is just the beginning, next in line are mandatory gps tracking units built into our cars - ALL in the name of keeping us safe, you know! 

Sorry Bryster but that's small potatoes and a bit old news. Probably a bit of spin to divert attention from this:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5439604.ece

Note that this is an EU directive that expands laws that have existed for over a decade. It applies to all EU states and effectively it means that any police force (or other government agency) anywhere in the EU can access a computer anywhere in the EU. All without a warrant. How "progressive"!

While it always delights me to see those infected with Bush Derangement Syndrome frothing at the mouth spouting ill informed comment (whatever will you do after the 20th?), it should be noted that this is not legal in the USA, unless one party to a communication is outside the USA.

Yes, this is NOT legal here in the US, however Bush tried damn hard to have the phone companies turn over records of individual's phone calls.  What will I do after Jan 20th?  Throw a goddamned party that the jerk is finally gone and in addition be grateful that McCain and his bitch running mate never had a chance in hell of getting into the White House.  Bush is responsible for the economic mess we now have.  

Thanks Tom271 for posting the above link.....thought I would share a snippet of it here.  My finger will be raised on the 20th.

***"Having endured eight long years of misguided leadership on the part of the Bush Administration, it is with great regret and well-bridled enthusiasm that we orchestrate PEACEFUL CIVIL DISRESPECT, in the form of raised middle fingers, on a worldwide massive scale as common citizen George W. Bush ascends by helicopter from the White House on his return to private life following the inauguration of a new American leader."

Red froth. Superb. Any more?

*"...bitch running mate..."

Liberal progressiveness. Hope and change! LOL

Personally i think they implement all these laws to get a glympse of all the incredibly hot chicks i e-mail with :-P muahahahahaaa 

Quote - While it always delights me to see those infected with Bush Derangement Syndrome frothing at the mouth spouting ill informed comment (whatever will you do after the 20th?)...

Same thing liberals always do. Whine and moan; then blame someone else for their own failures.
The mainstream media is already busy making up excuses for all of the Obamessiah's inevitable future failures. Certainly we can expect liberal pukes around the world to take up parroting the media's propaganda before too long.
It surely couldn't be the century old policies that have failed hundreds of times (EVERY time) in societies all over the world. Must be someone else's fault.
Question to ask is: Who will the scapegoat be now?

 Its like a gearbox.. R for reverse, D to go forward ;-)

That's exactly right, Rayraz - when the car is facing the edge of the cliff. ;-)

I dont really think the republicans are gunna save us from a cliff they built themselves either thou...
And Obama is just a man too, just cuz hes the 1st black president doesnt mean he'll magically solve all the problems like many people expect him to.

Wait, look! Brittany and Paris don't have any underware on!!!
Oh well... It worked last time when they "misplaced" 15 Billion worth of bribe dollars in Iraq.

LOL....and now we're handing out Viagra and Cialis pills to the tribal leaders in Afghanistan.

Its like a gearbox.. R for reverse, D to go forward ;-)     good one..

At Abu Ghraib---Gitmo---Bailout---Detainees---Katrina---Iraq invasion----Go shopping---Bad policies-----spying on citizens---preferences towards the rich companies--- etc...

How did this go?  " there are known "known",  unknown "knowns" and unknowns "unknowns"...!"   you need to be smoking some weed to understand this,,,,  or  just being stupid will do..

but the Democrats did it...   it's all their fault...

 actually.. its just a real long sentance to say "we are not omniscient" :)

@Rayraz

Yes..  I understand...   what omniscient means...

but this was Donald Rumsfelt talking about the WMDs in Iraq.... 
the word is  "Patronizing" or  "Lying"

:)

Wonderful! A post pointing out invasive monitoring by a "progressive" socialist European state enacting the laws generated by a "progressive" trans-national European socialist super-state, is instantly diverted into a circle jerk about George Bush and Donald Rumsfelt (sic), conservatives who after eight years of Hitler power have somehow neglected to introduce such measures in the USA.

This emotional jujitsu is called "denial".

And it's fantastically entertaining.

ROTFLMAO! I see the left wing fruitcakes are out in force yet again. You must get a thrill out of making the rest of us laugh? Or, is it a fall moon already? Nowhere in any of those articles did I see anything ascribing Mr. Bush to anything. The one left wing Looney tunes mentally deficient site asking for people to sign up to give the President a departing collective middle finger doesn’t even identify who they are or who is sponsoring their stupid antics. I’m sure that’s for the obvious reason that they can get away with it under the sacred shroud of anonymity. But it just goes to show that it doesn’t take much to crank up imbeciles who have a lust for hate simply because it seems to be the going fashion statement. I’m also sure that the majority of Americans that put the President in office for two terms won’t be signing that pathetic piece of partisan chicanery. I’m just amused how it is that the democratic Congress with an even poorer approval rating than Mr. Bush gets away scot free. Hum…something tells me there’s politic partisanship involved here.

Actually, it is a full moon tonight. :-)

Which reminds me of the old Tom Wolfe snippet paraphrasing the French reformed socialist writer Jean-François Revel, "who talked about one of the great unexplained phenomena of modern astronomy: namely, that the dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe."

C'est la vie, mon amis.

Actually, I caught that typo and forgot to correct it before I posted. And our posts did cross. Nevertheless I knew right off that their razor sharp little minds would know a typo when they saw it…or was I assuming too much…LOL? All fooling aside I like that PJF…I’ve never heard that.

C'est la vie.

Speaking of Hitler, how did she get appointed as Secretary of State?

LOL...dare I say...partisan politics? Whining and moaning? ...sounds about right to me.

Content of character.

Hum; "...invasive monitoring by a "progressive" socialist European state enacting the laws generated by a "progressive" trans-national European socialist super-state". Who would have thought?

I apologize to TheBryster for going onto with another topic, although with similarities and with roots involved, and adding nothing to his thoughts ....   I do tend to jump on the Bush wagon.. I will admit this.. Bush and his crime families are not easily pushed aside..   I am a fair person and will yield to reason....    sorry Chris.... But OT posts seem to do that.... 

But as for Quest...  You seem to like attacking and discrediting people to win your argument rather than addressing what was claimed.   I guess for a lack of anything really informative to say... The reason you did not see anything being ascribed to Bush in that site, is the reason I posted the link...  I was not attacking Bush per say, I was pointing out the mid finger goodbye being scheduled for him In respond to Photostar's retort .  There is also a shoe site but now I regress...

This fruit cake or imbecilic left wing -- as you call us--- will always be here watching the house of cards crumble...  The sand castle wash away....  your veracity clinging to reason till the last finger gives way... 

also!  there!  you bet ya!

Quote - I am a fair person and will yield to reason...

Which is it?
Fair and reasonable, or liberal?
The two are mutually exclusive.

Quote - This fruit cake or imbecilic left wing -- as you call us--- will always be here watching the house of cards crumble...  The sand castle wash away....  your veracity clinging to reason till the last finger gives way...

• 'Imbecilic' should be 'idiotic', as in "Useful idiots"; or 'dopey', as in "duped dopes" (some of your very own party's appellations for it's constituents).
   - Watching should 'causing'
   - 'house of cards' should be "world food supply".
   - 'sand castle' should be "liberty" or "freedom".
  I would think that a bunch of self described "intellectuals" would use a more precise vocabulary in their propagandist rhetoric.

EDIT
Isn't it soon time for this thread to be locked/deleted?
Liberal propaganda is being opposed in public and "silencing" the opposition is the normal course of action for fascists.
A liberal spewing rhetoric is "expressing personal opinion"; those who oppose the dogmatisms are "making polical statements", right?

@dvlenk6   you really are a  "bring it on"  kind of guy..... :)    You really are giving this post the right texture and render.....   I'm not silencing anyone....  

Not locking this thread either...  go ahead rant....

also...

Hay wait! You started off Bush bashing with the “finger solution” and I’m the one attacking you? Let’s get a perspective here. I can surely lay the law of what truly happened to you chronologically during this administration and you won’t like it, I assure you. I can discuss with you any aspect politically but only if you get away from the childish conspiracy BS aspect. I don’t have to win anything I let documented truth speak for itself.

It’s nice you finally apologized for taking this thread in a different direction. That’s a good start. You’ve claim nothing but anti-Bushism and hate for him. You actually finally claimed to be on “the Bush wagon”. I think we all know what that means.

You forget to realize that Bush was indeed elected President of these United States for two consecutive terms and therefore the majority of the people voted for him. But of course...in your mind (the left wing mentality) this was not so. Everyone else was wrong but you and your ilk are right. I’m a moderate Independent and don’t particularly like all of Bush’s policies, but still I watch both sides as it stands in present day America and really don’t care for partisanship.

You are absolutely right, I like attacking and discrediting people who don’t know what the hell they’re talking about because their heads are too far up their liberal or conservative asses to see the truth. I personally don’t care for your reason why you picked that site, it still remains true that it is in fact an idiotic site for stupid reasons for whatever reasons you picked it.

Imbecilic and fruitcake is exactly what I choose to call them because my next choice of words is not nearly as nice.

Is this a political forum? Do we need more of this? :/

Silverblade, I'm sorry that you should be subjected to this. But it seems by looking through this thread, that certain people have conspired to bring it to this end. The thread started by focusing on Britains situation where everyone's computer can be hacked by the authorities. Then low and behold...it was Bush's fault. So you tell us.

Quote - ...I can surely lay the law of what truly happened to you chronologically during this administration...

There you go! Trying to obscure the truth with the facts.
Didn't you know?
The 'intellectual' liberal mind is immune to the distractions of factual information :lol:.

PS - Sorry silverblade33.

Yea, yea...   you guys just came in and escalated the whole thing......  from something minor to a full fleshed out argument....    someone plants a seed and then you add water...   don't think it has not been noticed....       now you are playing the victims.....  try and stop your bullshit...   that will be better.... and will bring this whole thing to a halt....

Why do liberals always become so hostile when somebody has an original thought or an opinion other than the one that is endorsed by The Hive Mind?

You are pathetic Tom! Plain and simply pathetic. We escaladed this? Your ASS!

Email law 'attack on civil liberty'

Looming rules that will force internet companies to keep details of every email sent in the UK are an attack on privacy and a waste of money, it has been claimed.

He told the broadcaster: "This degree of storage is equivalent to having access to every second, every minute, every hour of your life. People have to worry about the scale, the virtuality of your life being exposed to round about 500 public authorities.

This is really a troublesome thing that is happening in the UK....

The Fascist to English Dictionary defines "escalation" as:
 - Expressing an opinion that opposes liberal dogma.

How do you hold the Bush administration accountable for this?

Ants 'get aggressive with cheats'**
**Worker ants in colonies with a queen are physically attacked by their peers if they try to reproduce, a study says.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7818692.stm

Would you say this is Bush's fault ?

Enough already with the name calling! Lighten up or I'll lock the thread. I have no problem with folks airing their political views, but I won't put up with personal attacks. I started out trying to inform folks of the disturbing progress of the 'Big Brother' aka 'Orwelian' oppression that is eroding the rights and freedoms of UK citizens. I wasn't trying to start WW3.

It is documented fact that innocent UK citizens have been arrested for using the words 'Hijack', 'Hostage' and 'Plane' in text messages on mobile (Cell) phones, and interrogated as suspected terrorists. This demonstrated that the UK Gov listens to, reads and records text messages. The next target is e-mails; although it is claimed that only the time and date, sender and recipient details will be recorded.

I could go on about this for weeks but it is up to users to be aware of this and if possible fight back. That doesn't mean tear into each other about who's fault it is.

The Bryster
this kind of thing has been going on for 50 years, see ECHELON.
See also the PsyOp population control lunacy both sides did in the Cold War, after it ended, that madness (PsyOps) didn't end!
Some moved into private work (better advertizing by bullshit, that also went on throughout the Cold War, hence far more effective but devious advertizing)

And no, that's not "conspiracy stuff", that's well documented fact. Both sides used psychology and broadcast media to try and alter populace opinion to harden support for their government stance, to make the other guy look like a "Monster" thus hate thus stop thinking rationally and wanting and end to the escalation that nealry gotus glassed out of existance several times.

You all wanna debate this, debate it like adults, k?
It's VERY scary stuff, but this email law, pfft, tip of the iceberg.
See Gitmo and what's really been going on there, as we're now learning. Email scanning without warrant is bad, torture is a lot worse.

Sigh, bryce is a lot more fun, folks :)

Silverblade,
Hey! You're preaching to the converted!
Things is, lots of folk can't see the big picture because the picture is so damn big.

Apparently some people have no qualms or don’t stop to think about insulting their fellow Americans by insulting the President of the nation publically but get their noses bent out of shape when you turn the tables on them and give them a blast of their own medicine. Perhaps they think they can get away with it, lambasting and denigrating the office of the President to their heart’s content. Accusing him with half baked truths and innuendos. Blaming every little earthly ill on him as if they had some inside information made privy only to them and expect their fellow countrymen to stand silently by or fall in line behind them like sheep while they have their little joke. Do they not know that we can see what they write, or do they think we’re going to turn a blind eye to their foolishness, or could it be they don’t care?

Calling a web site imbecilic in nature and using the word fruitcake can hardly compare with calling the President an idiot, numbskull, jerk or calling governor Sarah Pallin a bitch. People forget they’re not sitting in their private living room talking their flavor of the day politics and religion and having a beer with their best friend. They forget that not everyone agrees with their take on matters of politics or religion. I don’t suffer from the illness that is the artificialness of political correctness and call a spade a spade.

Let no one be duped into thinking that keeping America safe is a walk in the park least they be lulled into a sense of false security. America has many enemies both from without and within. Sometimes some very harsh measures must be taken to protect our way of living whether we like it or not. If it ever came down to where it is a question of survival between us and them, I’d pick us every time. It is unfortunate but IMO, I’d say leave Gitmo right where it is. I know it’s hard because it’s all around you all the time but I try to limit my exposure to the liberal media propaganda machine as much as possible.

And with that, my apologies to TheBryster and I’ll turn this over to your regular viewing station.

Bryster,
hehe yup ;) and most folk refuse to see it cause they have been fed the Mushroom Treatment so long, they don't want to admit the nightmare they have readily swallowed, tad hard on the pride, so they won't do it :/

Quest,
Note: OFFICE of the President, and the retarded scuzzball or honourable person , in the position, are two entirely different things.
Like, you salute the uniform, not the person inside it, who's ass you will still bust for disgracing that uniform, if required.

A citizen of the USA has every right to rip the snot out of the Commander in Chief, because that IS an American Right. Especially when that SOB and his cohorts have legalized the use of TORTURE. That is so far beyond the pale, it should have everyone involved doing 30+ years, never mind other stuff that will come out in the wash.

You could also apply same to Clinton's administration for the deliberate bombing of water treatment works in Iraq, that lead to the deaths of vast numbers of Iraqi children. A deliberate policy of infanticide. 
Now which of those two hard facts will you be most likely to accept, hm?

Parties do not ever stand for your principles, all they care about is the *continuation and power *OF the "party", at any cost, and sell out principles for short term gain regardless of the cost to their nation in the long term. This applies to religion as well, and to every political movement, ever.

Now that's a few home truths any adult should grasp. Stop voting with your gonads and fear.
get back to Brycing, far more healthy for ya all ;)

Just an input:

A citizen of the USA has every right to rip the snot out of the Commander in Chief, because that IS an American Right. Especially when that SOB and his cohorts have legalized the use of TORTURE. That is so far beyond the pale, it should have everyone involved doing 30+ years, never mind other stuff that will come out in the wash.*

*It is exactly why I'm always so easily lured into a political discussion about Bush....  --(that unfortunately turns into personal slamming)---  I think of it as my duty to talk about what our President has done and has allowed to happen around the world...  This will be remembered in WORLD history books as a significant political event at the turn of this century...  How can one bare witness to this and not tell.. is frustrating to me...

Parties do not ever stand for your principles, all they care about is the continuation and power OF the "party", at any cost, and sell out principles for short term gain regardless of the cost to their nation in the long term. This applies to religion as well, and to every political movement, ever.

We have lost our principles somewhere along the way....   Both Democrats and Republicans are lost...   Money and power are the prevailing forces and these forces are not spawned out of the white house and through politicians.  Capitalism is the mother and the hatchery are the rich greedy Corporations ..  This is why I believe that a new system has to emerge...  A capitalist Social economy is an emerging Idea...   with strong and  flexible laws keeping the beast in its place...  Capitalism.

tom271 has the right answer, our present system of governance is being usurped by the financial power mongers and the governed are being left behind.
We sorely need to demand, and force if necessary, a different mentality in D.C. if we ever expect to get through this! 
Perhaps we need another "Tea Party"!

Bryster,
The obvious solution to the problem, according to liberals here in the states, is to give MUCH greater power and resources to the offending government agencies; and tax productive workers and profitable corporations to death (literally) pay for it all.
That is just one facet of the liberal madness here in the states, there are much more sinister and destructive agendas being pushed forward.

Can you understand why it is very difficult to read unsolicited liberal propaganda (on an art site), and not become upset?
Call me crazy; but pig headed lies and fascist rhetoric always piss me off.

So the bleeding heart liberals (fruitcakes) just can’t keep themselves from regurgitating that vial concoction they’ve been spoon fed through the liberal propaganda media…victims of their own devices. I would at least have some respect for them if they didn’t keep using the same half baked truths (or lies depending on how you see things) and innuendos to weave their complex webs. I wouldn’t be half as insulted when they “rip the snot  out of the Commander In Chief” if I thought for one minute that they had some valid truth to base their nonsense on. But having watched these half truths and innuendos being developed and summarily debunked over the years and continued to be reused and raked over the coals, year in, year out. The same monotonous litany over and over and over again and again and again…you know, just like in computer programming GIGO, garbage in garbage out  you can’t blame people for acquiescing to that constant whining moaning whining and moaning. Get the picture? That’s what propaganda is, constant repetition. Surely one would think that able body people with half a brain in their heads can sort through the hype and steaming hot bullshit being served up to them. But like lemmings in unison they put on their rose colored shades, their spiked Kool-Aid drinks in hand and continue regurgitating the bitching, whining and moaning while deluding themselves with imaginary flights of fancy in a sort of collective mental utopian love fest.

They love everybody including terrorists. And believe me, there is a distinct difference between a terrorist, a soldier and a freedom fighter. They even go as far as wanting to give terrorists hard earned and fought for American rights. They want to bestow terrorists with the same rights bestowed through the Geneva Convention to real soldiers. That thought alone makes me feel like puking. Imagine, giving those rights to that scum that would just as soon lob your head off or kill 3,000 innocent people without giving it a second thought. They want to give those bastards at Gitmo the same rights American citizens have. Those people caught on the field of battle killing our soldiers and somehow they’re not terrorists captured in combat. Military tribunal is far better than they deserve. If it wasn’t that they need to be pumped for information, and I don’t consider water boarding torture under the circumstances, I’d say send them back to their home countries where the punishment for their crimes is usually death.

I vote for whomever I believe will do the better job and who I vote for is none of your goddamn business.

Ahhhh the agenda finally surfaces lol! Tom only you, the ACLU, George Soros, and the left wing loons would entertain a socialist system in America. Seeing as its done so well in Europe over these many years.

@rstar...   We need a whole different approach in the way we see local and foreign politics, financial institutions, the environment, health care and education... not necessarily in this order.. The American middle class workers and the unions must be protected.. Not that all unions are doing what they should be doing.    Out with the bad in with the good. 
You might have notice how fast we gave Banks their money without really understanding  how the money was going to be used...  All CEO's got their due on that one... and they use part of the money to buy more banks and do mergers..   
But the Auto Industry whose back bone are the working people with their unions gets scrutinized and put through hell.  The worker lost some ground on this deal and the union did too... 

It wont be easy and in the middle of all this loud noise the opposition is clamoring but something positive will happen..  The Republican party as it is today is dead. 

@Quest:   don't use my name anymore to advance your nonsense...  Keep me out of it... 
All you do is spew out venom and hate....   and this goes for your rabid  friend as well...  This is a pattern that fallows both of you....   Keep me out of it....  !