@JWFokker: It looks like you are still using the original VSSPR Shaders.  Have you tried the latest version PR2?

I'm using the latest version, with the PR3 mat file as well.

 In using the PR3, for example if I want to change a lighter lip color, can I use the Color Tint node and alter it for Pink...?

Just wondering what I can come up with

JB

You could if you have set up a rule exclusively for the lips. 

 This thread is huge. I have a few bookmarks for useful pages. This one should show you how to set up lipstick.

This technique could also be used for other things, makeup, tattoos spring to mind.

This thread is huge. Maybe we should stop using it, and start doing individual threads on individual topics? That way we could bookmark and search them much more easily.

While I think it's cool to have the largest thread ever at Rendo, it may have gone beyond its usefulness.

The lipstick trick can be done with a mask or with a separate rule. I prefer the mask.

The "Tint" input is multiplied with the skin color. It is handy for certain effects, but unable to do certain others. In particular, you could not "tint" the lips to be white very easily, unless you used hyper-colors (colors with RGB components bigger than 1) (I just made up that hyphenated word but it's a useful concept. Also hypo-color - a color with an RGB component less than 0)

Would you like to see how I used the GND4 lip mask to do shiny  lipstick with extra bump?

Quote - Would you like to see how I used the GND4 lip mask to do shiny  lipstick with extra bump?

Yes, I would like to see how you did it with the GND lip mask, as I got BH's product as well.  It would be interesting to see as I too like to do mask for applying make-up especially lips

P.S.: You're right, this is a huge thread; it's becoming informative day to day, and I think individual threads would help.

I'll check back,

Thanks,

JB

Quote - This thread is huge. Maybe we should stop using it, and start doing individual threads on individual topics?

There is a lot use useful information here - when I stumbled across it, I had to read every page to pick the helpful stuff out of it. I know that there is PDF of information too, but I think it’s been superseded by more recent developments.

Breaking out some VSS threads, with the relevant information in them from the start would be a good place to start, as well as a VSS Developments thread where new versions etc. can be announced.

i think it's a great idea, and would make VSS threads safer.  commercial threads aren't allowed (i'm still looking forward to the full version), but threads about using commercial products (or products that will be commercial) are.  even freebie distributing threads are supposed to be in the freebie forum.  i think this one has obeyed the rules, but focusing on usage rather than distribution would make the appropriateness unquestionable.

 We have a problem with advertising, but I haven't seen anything problematic here. Given how detailed BB answeres questions and explains things, I doubt that seperate threads will cross the line. As long as it's not a pure "New Version!!!! VSS is GREAT!!!" kind of a thread, I expect everything to be fine. 

i have a grey beard but the SSS is making it red. can i insert a custom SSS map that i made in photoshop in the skin shader? 

i'm not the expert by far, but in using PR2, i have  a totally different way of getting my subdermal + dermal scattering distribution (i treat them as one right now) than it came with by default.  probably less accurate, but i can't help playing around.    i'd say it should be simple with at least PR2 to plug in your own map instead.  you'll probably have to tweak the SSS amount to fit your map, though, just like one has to tweak bump and displacement settings depending on the specific maps.

Guys I'm going away to ski for a long weekend, so you're on your own.

Get the PR3 shader. Look at the parameters. Imagine the column of PM:nodes is a new kind of PoserSurface node. You can plug maps into any of those.

You can plug maps into SSS Color, or SSS Amount or SSS Falloff.

You can plug maps into Tint.

You can plug maps into Shine.

Get the idea? It's trivial.

AAAAAHHHHH!  Thanks BB, enjoy the R&R.  You deserve it.

Basically, there's no reason to do a serious human render without it. :)

Why aren't you using the VSS PR2 prop with the PR3 mat file applied?

Basically, you shouldn't have to do much postwork at all with VSS.  Which version of Poser are you using, btw.  Image 3 looks like it needs gamma correction.  Try using VSSPR3.  Gamma correction is built right in if you are using Poser 7.  In PoserPro, the gamma correction settings in prop should be set to 1 and GC set to 2.2 in the render settings.

I've used the VSS2 prop. I'll revisit it, but in my experience it took considerably more work to get things looking good out of the box.

I'm actually using Poser Pro... I'll probably need to turn off GC. (I did think about that, but just thought I'd see how it would render as is.)

I did a series of renders earlier in this thread showing the importance of GC with the VSSPR3.  It illustrated how dark skin can be severely affected if CG is not addressed properly in PoserPro.  My routine now is to leave CG on in render settings and create a new VSS prop with CG set to 1.  If you think that the original prop is impressive, try PR3.  It will really blow your mind.

Another thing, btw, try using IBL for your renders with using the VSS Prop.  It displays a much more realistic result than the regular lighting.  My convention is a 3 lighting system for starters. One IBL, one infinity for shadows, and one spot w/o shadows for fill.

If Bill ever thought his first skin shader sortie was less than awesome, I'd like to provide some evidence to the contrary:

Whilst I'm doing what I can to understand shaders, nodes... the whole complex mathematically-saturated technology... I still want to do art, and use this beautiful know-how in a sentence. So, I do. I'm creating hair textures, like the one above... on a character I'm putting together... what incredible skin this shader creates on such a rubbish textureMap!

The reason I chose the older shader - the one that first came out with VSS, arguably one of the most incredible freebies ever offered in the history of Poserdom - was because it still allowed some of the make-up textures to show through, which opened my product to those who couldn't take advantage of nodes and shaders: Daz Studio users.

I have been playing with this shader... a LOT. The problem is I have but a very scant of frame of reference to work from. It's a little bit like programming in Visual Basic... you look at other people's code, and you think: "Gee, I would never thought to use that function to do that!" At least there is something in terms of documentation to refer to for VB: for this, there's really very little. Just your own observations, what titbits you can glean from the Node Cult threads and from what has been kinda discussed here.

So, my objective is to completely understand what Bill was doing here with this 23-node marvel. I'm a long way from getting it: right now, just the PoserSurface node is still filled with all sorts of interesting characteristics that demand a relatively clear understanding. That there is a sophisticated formula running in the background of the Diffuse_Color channel... and that if you're going to use the Alternate_diffuse channel, you can actually leave the Diffuse_Value set at 1 if you plug in a Math_function Add node which does nothing. There's a gazillion little aspects of nodes to discover.

Which makes this shader (only 23 nodes, but what a wonder they produce!) even more spectacular.

I'll get to that 55+-node leviathan at some point in the future. Once I get my head around this one!

Okay, back to it. Head-down, bum-up....

I have Pr1 and Pr2 where's Pr3?  These are my Images using Pr2.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1815779

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1814726

VSS makes a Awesome Difference in Images.

Quote - The Color_Math node is the same as a Math_Node function by function. The difference is that a color is actually 3 numbers, one each for red, green, and blue. Any of the math functions is applied to all 3 values simulatenously and independently. Thus, a Color_Math is identical to 3 individual Math_Nodes working in parallel.

So you like those graphs, do you? Did you know they were generated not with some scientific graphic software, but with Poser itself? Yep each of those graphs is actually the output of a special shader, applied to a one-sided square. Do you know where that shader came from? Me.

Click here to see the original thread about these graphs, and how to make your own in Poser.

Matmatic gurus - graph your functions fast by bagginsbill on 11/01/06

You need to be able to visualize what math functions do in order to manipulate them in your head. Many things you'll try in the material room will not be possible to visualize until the last step.

Bill, here's where the whole thing kinda goes pear-shaped for me. Manipulating math functions in my head has never been my strong suit... but more to the point: the practical significance of what these formulas and functions mean to colours completely eludes me. I feel I'm reading post-graduate work when I'm a pre-med student. The whole thing is all too obscure.

I have been doing my experiments... so far, I've only had time to explore a few channels of the PoserSurface node, but googling and doing searches on the Node Cult forum leads me to believe that that area alone (the PoserSurface node and all its channels) is worth months if not years of work to understand. I haven't even begun to look at any other nodes.

I can't help but feel there is just one missing point, some elusive clue that will bring on the great "Aha!" Obviously, others have experienced it. I don't want shortcuts: I just want plain answers. The prospect of performing minutiae experiments on each and every channel, graphing the results and then, postulating what is actually going on without any certainty is an exercise in futility. I can come up with all sorts of erroneous conclusions based on my observations (and have!): I have no mathematical background, and I don't understand why the formula f(0) = 0, f(1) = 1 means something to me. All that was just so many words... to me. Not to CobaltDream or Iceboy or any of the other math wizards on here, but it was to me. I have no frame of reference to start my comprehension with.

If I told you that in order to define vascular dominance of cardiac vessels, one determines which vessel aliments the apex of the heart: if it's the left anterior descending artery of the left coronary tree, the circulation would be considered left dominant, if it's the posterior decending artery, then right dominance is assumed... if I told you that and you were actually passionately interested in this, I would have to at least provide a diagram of the blood vessels and what they feed and how a blockage would affect the performance of the heart and what the significance of right vs left dominance would have, to you. Chances are quite good none of this would interest you, but if it did, a bit of ground would have to be covered before the above statement would mean anything to you.

As brilliant as your explanation was, there was too wide a gap between my understanding of the significance of those formulas and nodal behaviour and myriad other things - this is after copious reading and study and becoming more and more confused - so it was placed in the "Too-Hard" basket.

BUT.

I can't let it go. I have to know. Where to I start? Experiments are doing nothing to clarify anything: they are relatively meaningless because of the lack of frame of reference.

@ artistheat:  This is the link that will transform your VSSPR2 into VSSPR3. 
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2737823&page=49
It was originally posted several pages back and it is a material file which will generate new nodes in your Skin Template of the VSS Prop.  Just follow the instructions.

Thanks hborre I missed that page...lol...

Quote - Not to CobaltDream or Iceboy or any of the other math wizards on here, but it was to me. I have no frame of reference to start my comprehension with.

wait a second.  i just want to go on record as not a math wizard.  i have several different physics professors who could vouch that statement for me.

what your problem is, i think, is that you can't see through the math.  i had the same problem with physics eventually.  i had to trust the math and get an understanding from that and not my instincts as they were.  and that just didn't happen for me. 

there's no trick to give you for that.  you have to switch your instincts.  instead of black, you have to think 0, 0, 0.  instead of mid-grey, you have to think 128, 128, 128.  i've had so many years of working with colors as numbers to specify, that much is at least instinctive for me.  no trick, just having to specify stuff over and over. 

that said, i have no clue half the time.  i'm sure if bagginsbill saw the perversion of PR2 i've made, he'd point out several different bizarre errors.  but it works for me, and could probably work for others.  you don't have to be him, and frankly, since he is a math wizard, i think you probably won't be.  i know i won't be, so i certainly don't mean that offensively.  you don't have to be a wizard to do tons and be helpful to the majority of people. 

it gets clearer as you do it more.  there's no short cut that i know of.  i think i first started using Poser in about 2001.  check out my latest image, you'll see a history of my work.  there's no huge leaps or sudden improvements.  i rarely get 8 hours of sleep, and i'm awful about my housework.  mostly i work on this stuff.  i'm very, very, very slow about this 3d stuff.  there are people who get to where i am and can model practically anything in a year.  you're very probably learning about 10xs as fast as i have. 

that said, my best and most popular piece of work is about 2 years old.  everything just came together.  i don't know if i'll ever surpass it. i just keep trying.

Thank you so much for your reassuring post, CobaltDream! I read your thread and the discussion you had with Bill way back in 2006 about Clay, Skin and Velvet and whilst you and he seemed to be on the same plane, it might not have been so, perhaps? If not, your experiments appear to be far more structured - taking into account the core element Light - than mine by far, so I gathered you knew what you were doing and just enlarging on it.

I really think there needs to be a wiki on nodes and nodal behaviour: everyone doing their own research and not knowing whether the conclusions they are arriving at are erroneous or not. I'm at that point in my experiments on the main channels of the Poser Surface node. Enlightening, true, but am I arriving at the right conclusions? Since no one else is publishing anything anywhere (except what's here on the Poser forum, and it's fairly higgledy-piggledy) I haven't been able to draw any comparisons to corroborate my conclusions.

Speaking of perversions: I've taken that initial node of his and whilst I left all of Bill's nodes and connections intact, tweaked the values massively... on some. Some things I am getting my head around, I'm elated to say. For instance, the simple_color node receives the texture map, which then gets slightly coloured - the original value of 189,219,219 of which I modified to 232,242,242, which made the skin tint just slightly less blue... this outputs to a spots node, which behaviour I understand better now too, because there's a fair bit of documentation on it. To go from textureMap to a tinting node to the spots node makes sense to me. Tweak the values and increase or decrease the size of the spots and it's all good. You are absolutely right, CobaltDream: it does get clearer... all of this colour stuff makes complete sense, well to me, or at least I think I understand it. It's the maths that I find completely baffling.

The spots node then outputs to a color_math Pow node, which also accepts input from a math_functions Add node. That is where I get lost. In my experiments I tried outputting into a math_functions Pow node Value 1 from that spots node, with a math_function Add (Value 1 is 1) plugged into Value 2. Plugged this into the Alternate_Diffuse channel. Did a render. Took the math_functions Pow out of the loops and did a render. No discernible difference. Now what? Here's where I would want to be reading up on math_functions Pow. My experiments have failed... probably for more than one reason:
1> I don't understand the maths behind the node
2> I don't understand what the node's purpose is
3> Because of these issues, I have no idea where to plug it or why I need it

Yet, quite obviously, Bill used it and to good effect. This is where I need to be doing most of my experimenting. Now, judging from what I've seen Bill do, you can actually use these maths nodes in a variety of ways. When they are used to input a value (sheesh, I wish I spoke the language correctly... you're all probably wondering what is she ON about??) ... okay, say I have a math_functions Add node. Value_1 is set to 2.2, Value_2 to 0.0. I output to that mysterious color_math Pow Value_2 (which is white). So, color_math Pow is accepting the value 2.2 in channel Value_2. From what I understand, Pow is supposed to kinda act like "to the power of"... so it would be whatever the value was in Value_1 to the power of whatever the value is in Value_2, in this case 2.2.
No idea if I'm on the right track, here, but like in my experiments, I have to make some assumptions and then either prove them right or wrong.

Does that sound right?

And then, I just have to sort out why one would do this sort of maths to colours at this stage of the game, before it gets plugged into the Blender node, which then gets plugged into this Diffuse node and then: whoa, Nellie. We have a bit of Ambient_Occlusion maths added at this point. This product then goes both into Comp - gotta find out what Comp does - and into a color_math Add which I'm going to assume by the colour in Value_1 addresses SSS.

For now, I think I have enough to explore.
Here's that shader... not that Bill will recognise it - with nodes rearranged (grouped)  to where I could make some sense of them:

Since it really can't be properly seen reduced, I've made it a clickable link to the full-sized image.

The more I study this set of nodes, the more I am impressed by its cleverness.

Heheh. "Some Color" to the 2.2 power is anti-gamma correcting the color - making it linear, instead of sRGB.

Keep looking.

The only reason I use an Add node is because Poser doesn't have a Simple_Number node.

Adding 0 to something doesn't change it. So I use Add(x, 0) to represent a simple x.

Quote - Heheh. "Some Color" to the 2.2 power is anti-gamma correcting the color - making it linear, instead of sRGB.

You've illustrated my point, Bill. Was it through experimentation that you arrived at that knowledge of Color_math Pow functionality? If it was, I despair at ever getting anywhere with what I'm doing with my so-called experiments. I wouldn't have come to that ... ever.

What do you mean: "linear"? vs sRGB? No, please don't tell me: is there a place where I can study it for myself? I don't want free handouts: I just want to study this carefully... very carefully. Then, perhaps all those experiments might mean something.

I certainly hope you do write your book, Bill, but based on the instructions you've given the group of which I understand so darn little, I'll need the Cliff Notes to go with it.

Oh, and thank you for explaining why the math_functions Add was plugged in there. At least now I know that the reasons I'd postulated for it to be there, weren't correct.

no, i'm entirely unstructured about my learning.  i'm a complete mess with this stuff.  please, please don't base anything on my methods, because i'm pretty clueless.  i could be more disciplined, but i wouldn't like it very much, and i still wouldn't be a math wiz.

on the nodes.... i think you're thinking backwards.  he doesn't need to know anything about nodes for Math and Color Math.  Color Math > Power is a specific mathematical transformation.  forget about Pow for now and just look at Add.    Add is just that.  Subtract is just that.   the top input is the first in the equation and the bottom is the second.  with Add that doesn't matter, because a + b = b + a, but with Subtract and other functions, it does.

so let's take your example about bump and displacement maps.  how would you know that solution?  first, identify the problem:  people make maps where mid grey, or 128, 128, 128 (to the color picker) , or 0.5, 0.5, 0.5 (to the Poser material room nodes) is supposed to be 0 or no change.  well, how do you get 0.5 to be zero?  you subtract 0.5 from it.  obvious, right?  and you don't need to know anything about the material room other than the fact that you have a node that subtracts.

you don't need to understand the nodes first.  before that, you need to think about the colors as numbers.  then certain solutions become obvious.  after that, you might want to understand the stuff that's less straightforward, but to use them as bagginsbill does, you need to think about how they mathematically transform what goes into them.  personally, i can't go that far, but i can sort of tweak things.

bagginsbill learns all these complex mathematical functions for how materials work in the real world, then chains the functions the material room provides together to mimic them.    some nodes do make complex transformations (like the skin node), but often those don't work properly. 

ok, i'll reveal some of my idiocy.  so one of the things i changed in PR2 was how i generated the SSS map.  iirc, bagginsbill generated it with a straight comp node to pull out the red component of a texture.  in my own previous experiments, i had treated it differently.  i approached it this way.

i have a texture.  what do i want to know?  how much red there is in it relative to everything else. because the red can get bright due to everything being bright, and that's not what i want.  i want the percentage of red.   how do i get percentage?  by dividing.  so i need the red divided by the total.  i probably dealt with the total in the stupidest way possible ( i realize as i write this), but the point is that i plugged the red comp node into a divide math node. 

In this short post you have provided that missing link for me, CobaltDream. This was exactly what was missing in my understanding of this entire thing. I'm pretty sure Bill said it earlier at some point, but I'm frightfully slow: thank you SO much for taking the time to emphasize these points for me, hun!

Now, I'll have a framework to work from regarding the maths. At least now when I plug in an Add node (with some value being output) I'll know what I'm meant to expect to happen. Back to my experimentation.... it's starting to gel. Things are starting to make sense.

Thanks so much again, CobaltDream!!

oh, you're welcome! i'm so glad that helped.   oh, and check your email.  i sent you a response to your post on Poser for Dummies about the color swatch input in nodes (white being white or the texture).  my guess is that all inputs do the same thing, which is multiply the input before the node transforms it, but with colors, it's really obvious. 

Thanks cobaltdream! I have enough math knowledge to get by, but I get overwhelmed by the material room. Your putting simply helps in the approach I should have taken from the start.

I have to agree with **RobynsVeil ** a wiki on nodes would be nice. Somewhere where each step is broken down to be simple. Example to add gamma correction do the following, then explain how each node is interacting.

@ Tiny: Let me give you a much detail as I can remember without opening my program.  Load your VSS Pro and make sure your VSS Python Script is running with the script window open.

• Enter the Material Room.  On the Script menu, click Design, and click create a Template Rule.  Give it a name, i.e. Hair.
• Click the Material menu in the Material Room and scroll to your new Template.  Create your hair nodes there.
• Go back to the Script menu and click Autoname.  That will rename the nodes so that the VSS Prop will run correctly.
• Again, pull down the Material Menu and scroll this time to Shader Rules.  There you need to create the Hair Rules and your new Template Rule for connection. 
• Very Important: your Hair rules should be named for all the material parts of your hair.  You can use wildcards to generalize the names, but must pay strict attention to all the parts.  All hair are not constructed the same. 

That should do it, and I hope I didn't overlook anything.

I'm not getting the new rule on my material dropdwon list. There must be a step I'm doing wrong.
I run the Python VSS main button script
In Material room I select the VSS prop
Click the Designer... button on Python scrip
Click the Add a rule node (there is no button with the name Templet rule)
Make a node named Hair - A node is created  but nothing in the dropdown list

Where do I go wrong here?

Sorry Tiny, I was trying to picture it in my mind's eye and memory.  Click on "Add Material Zone".  That will create the Template necessary for assembling your nodes.  Glad I saw this before log off.  Keep us posted if you have problems; glad to help.

Quote - Sorry Tiny, I was trying to picture it in my mind's eye and memory.  Click on "Add Material Zone".  That will create the Template necessary for assembling your nodes.  Glad I saw this before log off.  Keep us posted if you have problems; glad to help.

No problem at all. Thanks, that did it!

Quote - - Very Important: your Hair rules should be named for all the material parts of your hair.  You can use wildcards to generalize the names, but must pay strict attention to all the parts.  All hair are not constructed the same.

This is dynamic hair and I don't have material parts on it but I do have 42 hair groups, associated with each body part, named for example hip_1, head_1, etc. Do I need to create a rule for every hair group (42 of them)? They all have the same settings. Would be good if there was a "general rule" for all the hair groups.

The way it is spelled out in the VSS manual, you should have material zones for the synchronization to work.  You could create material zones to your dynamic hair using either the Grouping Tool in Poser or UVMapper.  I haven't much experience in this area so I couldn't guide you with 100% confidence.  But I am pretty sure you will need those material zones to implement the VSS Prop.  Maybe if BB is 'listening', he may chime in with further in-depth explanation. 

Quote - oh, you're welcome! i'm so glad that helped.   oh, and check your email.  i sent you a response to your post on Poser for Dummies about the color swatch input in nodes (white being white or the texture).  my guess is that all inputs do the same thing, which is multiply the input before the node transforms it, but with colors, it's really obvious. 

And I've finally responded to your email as well... which should accurately reflect not only my degree of understanding about all this, but also my rate of learning... lol. I truly think the idea of splintering off this thread into a discussion group on node behaviour is an excellent one, as this thread is becoming too fragmented... and I couldn't think of a more knowledgeable person than you to help us explore these concepts, CobaltDream!

Quote - For anyone else who downloaded the VSS_Template_Skin_PR3_WIP.mt5 file and applied it to their VSS Template Skin shader....

After I synchronised with VSS, there were no skin textures displaying in Preview, although it rendered okay.

To fix this, I just added the link shown in the attached piccie in the Template Skin shader, and saved the prop. Leave the diffuse value at zero.

Sorry to bring this up again, but I had the same issue.  This is a quote of a quote posted on 12/25, and I can't find the original post, and so no "attached piccie" to reference.

But I think what I wanted to do was in the template_skin of the PR3, attach the "color map" to the "diffuse color" and resynchronize.  By leaving the diffuse value at 0 makes attaching the color map do nothing to the shader.  Is that correct?

It did put the color back into his skin in the preview and looks like it hasn't affected the render.  (still rendering), but I just wanted to check.

Thank you.

Indi.

That's correct.  Ready for a little lesson?

The PoserSurface (the root node) is more than just a bunch of channels to plug stuff into. It is a shader in itself, albeit a rather simple one.

The Diffuse_Color and Diffuse_Value channels are actually part of an internal Diffuse node. As with a separate Diffuse node, this combines the incoming data with the Lambertian diffuse reflection function (i.e. it incorporates lighting into your texture). The amount of diffuse reflected light is the product of your color map, your Diffuse_Color, your Diffuse_Value, the strength of the incoming light, and the cosine of the angle between the surface normal and the direction the light is coming in at.

Being a product (multiplication) if any of those terms is 0, the result of the whole term is 0. Meaning, I set the Diffuse_Value = 0 and the internal Diffuse node does absolutely nothing to your rendered surface. The reason we don't want it involved in your shader is because I'm handling the diffuse stuff somewhere else, taking into account gamma correction. Using the built-in diffuse node, I can't intercept the output and gamma correct it. So I turn the whole thing off.

However, as you found out, the preview renderer is a completely different bit of software. It does not follow all the rules that the real renderer follows. In particular, it seems to ignore the brightness control offered by the Diffuse_Value parameter. So by plugging in your texture map (or Color Map as I call it) to Diffuse_Color, you get the preview renderer to show your figure with basic coloring applied.

It would be much better if the preview renderer actually followed the real shader. Then you'd not have to render at all in software!

Off topic, I've never liked the phrase "texture map". To me, the "texture" is the combination of all your maps - particularly diffuse color, specular strength, and bump. When we talk about the "texture" of a strawberry or an orange or a shirt or a piece of wood, there's a lot more to it than what color it is. I consider the combination of all these maps to be the "texture".

That's why I say Color Map.

Quote - That's correct.  Ready for a little lesson?

The reason we don't want it involved in your shader is because I'm handling the diffuse stuff somewhere else, taking into account gamma correction. Using the built-in diffuse node, I can't intercept the output and gamma correct it. So I turn the whole thing off.

Wow, thanks for the information.  This is what I have found so fascinating and ingenious about this shader.  The only nodes that are working are the alternate diffuse and bump.   A massive amount of intricate calculations go into one single place to define the light reflections.  It makes lots of logical sense to me, but I'm a math teacher, so I have a hunger for simplicity and logic.  The PR3 is so nicely organized I had no problem doing little tweaks to alter it slightly.

However it did alter the shaders of all figures in the scenes to their "body" and "preview" domains.  (And the "tongue" of a boot I had in there, LOL).  Somehow it turned the pants white, even in the render.  I haven't figured that part out yet.

I learned a ton about Poser shading from this, so thank you again.  Being a Carrara user until I've recently decided to learn Poser, I had to dig deep into the concept of shaders (since content rarely includes anything Carrara can use), it's wild to use something this complex, and a great experience to see how intricately it can be used.

Thanks.

Indi.

Quote - Off topic, I've never liked the phrase "texture map". To me, the "texture" is the combination of all your maps - particularly diffuse color, specular strength, and bump. When we talk about the "texture" of a strawberry or an orange or a shirt or a piece of wood, there's a lot more to it than what color it is. I consider the combination of all these maps to be the "texture".

That's why I say Color Map.

I believe the usual term for that is "Diffuse Map"

Ah, but it's not always just the diffuse color. On a metal it is also the specular color and reflection color. The type of material (in the real-world sense) drives how we interpret the color map. The diffuse color is just one outcome.

True but I'm just going by what other 3D apps call it :)
In C4D - you plug the image into the diffuse channel hence the name.  We ought to think up a new name for what you get when you take the whole shooting match into consideration, diffuse, specular etc. etc