I've never used Poser.  In fact, I'm only now really getting my feet wet in 3D modeling, now that I've finally figured out how to organize content.

I'm going to buy a copy of Poser 7 in a couple of months.  Will it include a manual and tutorials that I can use to get started, or is everything online?

The boxed version included a paper manual.  I dont know if SmithMicro has kept that option. All versions (box and download) include the manual as a pdf file in the program folder, along with a python methods manual. 

There are lots of tutorials online from renderosity , daz3d and many other site.  I dont remember what tutorials are included in the manual.

You can download and try Daz studio for FREE and see if it holds your interest before spending the money on Poser .

Poser 7 and Poser Pro do come with a tutorial manual as well although you will get more mileage searching the web for more indepth lessons.

Quote - All versions...  (box and download) include the manual as a pdf file in the program folder, along with a python methods manual.

That'll work. 

Quote - There are lots of tutorials online from renderosity , daz3d and many other site.

Tutorials are good, but I'm looking for something that will teach me how to use Poser by walking me through the process of creating my first real scene, from understanding the UI, to rendering the final image.  I'm hoping the manual will do that.

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Tutorials are good, but I'm looking for something that will teach me how to use Poser by walking me through the process of creating my first real scene, from understanding the UI, to rendering the final image.  I'm hoping the manual will do that.

Yeah, uh, good luck with that...
If you're counting on that you're going to be very disappointed. While Poser's manual has improved over the years, it still remains... shall I say... lacking. It's, like, tradition or something.
But really, software manuals are typically vague and incomplete, so I can't say Poser's sucks any worse than your typical software manual.
What it does basically, is it explains - in minimal detail - every feature in Poser. I just spent some time reading through it for the first time in a long time, and have to say that I couldn't find many features that were explained enough in the manual to enable a n00b to actually create anything worthwhile. At best, it's good for reference, but that's about it. Mostly you'll learn about Poser by using it and asking specific questions. The manual is not your friend. It's more like an older sibling or a workmate who has been forced to accommodate you, but does so only grudgingly and sparingly.

It does explain the interface reasonably well, as well as the various options, but if you're looking for, say, how to set up good lighting - which is an absolute MUST in 3D, you're going to be SOL. Poser's lights kinda suck anyway (the source of almost all my Poser anxiety), but are usable if you understand how good 3D lighting is set up. Same thing with cameras. To take a good picture, you need to understand photography reasonably well. Poser's cameras do a decent job, but they don't do it for you, and the manual is pretty selfish with details.
For example (from the manual) - F-Stop: The F-Stop number represents a lens aperture size. The larger the number, the smaller the aperture opening. Each number is multiplied by a factor of approximately 1.4 as the scale rises, giving standard values of 1.0, 1.4, 2, 2.8, 4, 5.6, 8, 11, 16, 22, 32, etc. Each change either doubles or halves the amount of light transmitted by the lens to the film plane.

Seriously, what the hell does THAT mean? Nothing, really, to someone who doesn't know about photography....
And then there's rendering, too, which is a whole 'nother subject altogether. Raytracing, shadow mapping, and so on.

The people who make great Poser images using only Poser are able to do so because they implicitly understand these things about lights and cameras, and the technical aspects of rendering and surfacing/shading. Granted, alot of the Poser art you see is someone buying a bunch of premade figures with premade cameras and lights, and premade poses, and hitting the old render button, but someone had to make all that to begin with.

So the best thing you can do is just plunge right in, and  ask technical questions as you see a need to. There are alot of people here who do understand these things and will help... assuming they're not busy talking about their damn cats at the time, that is. ;-)

But if you want some "how to" books for Poser, I suppose they're out there. Better yet, find some books or tutorials on general photography and lighting and scene composition, preferably as to how it's done in 3D computer graphics. THAT is what will make you a good Poser artist... provided you can learn how to coerce Poser into cooperating, that is. Which, I might add, Poser does try to fight you every step of the way...

The tutorial is very basic, it takes you through setup and posing plus some animation.  Unfortunately, it lacks the specific guidelines to really get you going on scene set up and composition.  Site tutorials are better.  The authors instruct with firsthand experience and can give better tips and tricks to render your first scene.

Quote - Yeah, uh, good luck with that...

hehehe

Quote - If you're counting on that you're going to be very disappointed. While Poser's manual has improved over the years, it still remains... shall I say... lacking.

Ah.  I figured as much.

Quote - But really, software manuals are typically vague and incomplete...

Good point.

Quote - What it does basically, is it explains - in minimal detail - every feature in Poser.

So, I get the very basics of what I need to know about each feature, but I'm on my own in terms of figuring out how to use those features to create something.

Quote - I just spent some time reading through it for the first time in a long time, and have to say that I couldn't find many features that were explained enough in the manual to enable a n00b to actually create anything worthwhile.

Peachy.

Quote - Mostly you'll learn about Poser by using it and asking specific questions.

Sounds like what I've been doing with DAZ for the last three years, though I've nothing to show for it.  I've just noodled around with it.  I only recently began really doing anything with it.

Quote - The manual is not your friend. It's more like an older sibling or a workmate who has been forced to accommodate you, but does so only grudgingly and sparingly.

Right... lol

Quote - The people who make great Poser images using only Poser are able to do so because they implicitly understand these things about lights and cameras, and the technical aspects of rendering and surfacing/shading.

Sounds like I've got a lot more to learn about modeling than I thought.  Wow... I had no idea...

Quote - So the best thing you can do is just plunge right in, and  ask technical questions as you see a need to.

(nod)

Quote - But if you want some "how to" books for Poser, I suppose they're out there. Better yet, find some books or tutorials on general photography and lighting and scene composition, preferably as to how it's done in 3D computer graphics. THAT is what will make you a good Poser artist...

Well, now I find myself in a conundrum...

As I mentioned earlier, I only recently started really doing anything with DAZ..  I had a major breakthrough, last week, in terms of understanding how Runtimes are structured, and figuring out how to organize content.  Content organization has been the single biggest hurdle that's kept me from making any real headway toward becoming an artist in my own right, as I didn't want to risk finding myself with a hard drive full of content that I didn't know what to do with.  Now that I've figured that part out, I feel like I'm ready to get serious and actually start learning how to create, but I'd rather start with everything I need to do what I want now, rather than try to find ways to work around DAZ's limitations.

For example, at some point I want to be able to create my own hair styles, work with dynamic clothing, and HDR lighting - three things I know DAZ can't do, but Poser can.

Based on what I've observed of the community during the last three years, there's a lot more I'll be able to do with even just Poser than I will with DAZ, not to mention Poser's community support.

Quote - ... provided you can learn how to coerce Poser into cooperating, that is. Which, I might add, Poser does try to fight you every step of the way...

Is it any more trying than DAZ?

I never really messed with Daz Studio much. I just don't like it.
As for what you want to do with Poser, believe you me, there's no shortage of information out there, and you can count on getting good answers to technical questions, right here.

Don't let what I said about the manual dissuade you though. It's all true, but I thought you ought to know, since you specifically asked about it. But the overall lack of detail in the Poser manual has been an issue for as long as Poser has existed. Like I said, it's gotten better, but it will never be a step-by-step "how to" to any great degree. Software manuals rarely are.

Simply put, the best resource is the internet and the forums, where it comes to Poser technical specifics. And, as I mentioned, seriously consider getting some photography and digital lighting books, or at least search the 'net for info. There's plenty out there.

Transmapped hair is a modelling task and is probably more popular than dynamic(strand) hair , its also less ressource intensive.

Lighting you can learn from photography books. You just have to be aware that some real world tuff does not happen in poser, like light bouncing off walls and illuminating stuff from another angle.

Its all very doable in Daz studio or Poser.  The poser lighting , dynamic cloth and maybe hair are a definate plus, but you should be able to do excellent work in Studio.

Perhaps post a picture and ask for critique and see what happens. It can be brutal but constructive critisism may be a big help.  

Don't let the lack of a good manual stop you. Manuals are for wimps anyhow.

Seriously trial and error can get you far. Asking questions will get you farther. There are people here who could write books on single poser rooms.

Jump in with both feet and good luck.

Quote - I never really messed with Daz Studio much. I just don't like it.

It's a nice little program for people who are curious about 3D modeling but don't want to pay a lot - or, in DAZ's case, anything - for software; and while it is quite powerful what it does, I think I'm going to be able to accomplish a lot more with Poser.

Quote - As for what you want to do with Poser, believe you me, there's no shortage of information out there, and you can count on getting good answers to technical questions, right here.

(nod)

Quote - Don't let what I said about the manual dissuade you though. It's all true, but I thought you ought to know, since you specifically asked about it.

 
Thanks.  I appreciate that.

Quote - Transmapped hair is a modelling task and is probably more popular than dynamic(strand) hair , its also less ressource intensive.

I'm not familiar with the term "transmapped", but will certainly read more about it.  Thanks for the tip.

Quote - Jump in with both feet and good luck.

Will do!  Thanks!  :)

The Poser Tutorials, not the Manual, will walk you through the process of creating a Scene (both Still and an Animation)

With that said, the key purpose of the Tutorials is to walk you through all the various tools and introduce you to the Interface, not Scene Composition. They do not teach you everything Poser is capable, but do show you how to get around from start to Rendered Image.

I ecourage every new user to start by doing all the Introductory Tutorials, then go from there to find specific Tutorials. I personally go through them every so often, just to remind myself where certain aspects of the program are covered.

Quote - The Poser Tutorials, not the Manual, will walk you through the process of creating a Scene (both Still and an Animation)

You mean the tutorials at SmithMicro's site?

http://my.smithmicro.com/tutorials/index.html#poser

Both the software tutorial and SmithMicro.  There is a wealth of information out there, and, for the most part, enough to confuse the heck out of you.  Generally, start with the basics, create a few renders and analyse them.  See what are your strengths and weaknesses and come regularly to the forum to find solutions and answers.  And it can be any forum on any website.  Just feel comfortable posting your problems no matter how simple or complex they may be.  Poser has a very steep learning curve and you will only get out of it what you put in.  Enjoy the hobby and don't let it stress you out.  It is suppose to be fun.

Quote - Generally, start with the basics, create a few renders and analyse them.  See what are your strengths and weaknesses and come regularly to the forum to find solutions and answers.

(nod)

I'm basically taking baby steps, learning little pieces here and there, and building on them as I learn more.  I will no doubt need plenty of help as I progress.

Quote - Enjoy the hobby and don't let it stress you out.  It is suppose to be fun.

Absolutely!  :)

As for Poser tutorials, there's one name you should remember: Dr. Geep. He's got literally thousands of graphical tutorials for Poser, from very basic to quite advanced.

Be aware that Poser is no more a modeling application than DAZ|Studio. Making your own dynamic clothing, for example, will require a 3D modeling application to model it, while you'll use Poser to convert the model to dynamic cloth.

As for the rest, this is the forum to ask questions in. There's experts on materials and lights (check out anything by bagginsbill), rigging (phantom3D and others), dynamic cloth, character modeling (odf, patorak), you name it. Although I don't know experts on dynamic hair that are active in the Poser forum here.

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I'm not familiar with the term "transmapped", but will certainly read more about it.  Thanks for the tip.

"Trans-mapped" is the short and sweet way of saying transparency mapped. Usually it applies to hair models, but really it can be used for any kind of model where you want part of the model to be transparent.
It's done with image maps on a UV-mapped 3D model, using black and white values. An image with  values of RGB 0,0,0, which is pure black, would not render, while RGB 255,255,255 (pure white) would.
In the case of hair models, the model is a solid object, usually several layered and curved planes with image maps applied for color and transparency. The transmap will be all black, but the hair strands will be pure white, so you get that effect of hair, without a huge polygon count. Grayscale values will render partially, for example, RGB 127,127,127, which is about as medium gray as you can get, will be only half transparent, semi-opaque. Not useful for hair, but good for other types of objects.

And Poser has other nodes and textures and ways of doing it without actaul image maps, but those are procedural and not considered to be transmapped, not in the original sense of the term.