I go through the gallery when I can and checkout images that catch my attention for one reason or another.  There have been times when I've left "constructive" feedback due to things I've noticed.

For example, on one image (of an artistic nude), the majority of the shot was well done, except there was a noticeable white area in the upper corner of the image that seemed out of place and was really distracting to me. Especially, since the studio backdrop used consisted mostly of crushed red (velvet)material.  Every other comment on this photo totally ignored this obvious compositional mistake.  Hmm... wonder WHY?

On another occasion, there was an HDR image that had several CLONED spots (due to sensor dust) on it.  I commented that these spots were quite noticeable  and distract from an otherwise good image.   Everyone else seemed oblivious to this fact.  A whole lot of GREAT STUFF and WOW comments...but no mention of the dust spots.

So, have any of you personally given any sort of feedback OTHER  than the usual, run of the mill comments...Y'know like the ones we see on a daily basis? 

On the other side of the coin, have you received any feedback that made you rethink a specific post or correct it in some way?

Interested to see you replies to this.

Thanks
Je

I have both received and made constructive comments of photographs but admit I prefer to receive them as opposed to making them. I admit to being one of few words.

I view images and make comments ( when I can ) but have to admit if I see a minor of glaring mistake I will just not comment...yeah soft I know.
I also see  the WOW etc comments on images and think to myself they are rather mundane...but I dont say so....yeah soft again.
On the other side of the coin if some one points out an error on one of my images and it is justified then I appreciate it  and make sure I dont do it again...as well as tell myself off for not having noticed it in the first place.
I used to put up glamour stuff under a different name and one guy in particular was always pretty critical although I thought his comments were stupid.So one day I looked at his gallery..it was pretty much crap.
But I do value peoples comments on my landscapes..makes me go out and do even more.

 I myself tend to send a site mail if it's a major critique.. ...

You bring up a very interesting point. I have in the past commented on what seems like a perfect shot except for one minor detail. I think for the most part some folks are just afraid to post some too critical, especially once the WOW comments start flowing.

I once switched the setting to only ask for critical comments on one of my photos. Nothing really changed.

I've noticed that many of my favorite artists have stopped getting their photos rated. I wonder if this has anything to do with it?

Quote -

I've noticed that many of my favorite artists have stopped getting their photos rated. I wonder if this has anything to do with it?

I'd have to say a resounding Yes.. ...

Yeah always been a problem, and I  do give as honest an opinion on the images I comment on and more often than not always in the image itself.  What is also of interest is that often the very people who make note of this are seldom those who do much commenting, and thus the gallery will be void of much useful real critique.. This in turn must surely have some effect on those who do post images of great quality, and I know from many friends who have left RR thats this is true.

I always have valued comments be they critical or otherwise  esp if as ejn says they are justified, sometimes it may not have been possible to say improve the composition by moving a certain way, but who would know that anyway. Composition and light are not always possible to get them perfect. And whoever it is should always know, that it is never possible to acheive perfection.. The wider you open the window! The more the muck blows in..

A lot of people myself included often share images and get critique from them in that way and is part of the community spirit that makes our gallery good, as well as sharing tips and advice. The forum would be a great placealso if you want advice and critique.

personally if I can see some merit in a shot, but spot something I think could have been done better, then I'll mention it.. honestly I think that's what this place is about - helping one another to improve. having the balls to say when you don't like something will earn someone more respect with me than not commenting, or a one-word response. to say what you see does not necessarily mean you consider yourself a more worthy or capable photographer than the next person, but the only person with your opinion is, well, YOU! and they're all valid...

like I said above, I'll critique if there's something of merit in the shot in the first place.... if I plain don't like it I click off straight away and go browse elsewhere. This isn't to say that positive comments are worthless though, far from it! Some pictures, well, there's not much that can be said, but they still affect you and communicate to you... just a few positive words convey that your work has touched someone.. and besides which there are only so many words/phrases we can come up with to describe certain styles of photos so repitition of the same seemingly inane comments might make you a little jaded... but it still means someone has viewed and appreciated your efforts and shouldn't be sniffed at..

personally I always try to convey what it is about the picture which has been the basis of my viewing of it.... be that colours/ composition/ light etc etc.. - I think it gives a better sense of what has worked well in the image..... admittedly since I'm trying to improve I do tend to come at posts from a slightly more technical mindset than others may do, people who may primarily comment on how the image has made them 'feel', what moods it may have awoken etc.... I think both kinds of responses are equally valid and important, it's just that certain character types will err towards different methods....

and on a final note... more than other photo sites I am/ have been active on, Renderosity seems at times to almost have a template of celebrated subjects, 'staples' if you will, which will elicit all kinds of 'ooohs' and 'aaaahs' and will often be well received.... pets and flowers spring to mind here.... if I was forced to put my finger on what this might signify, I'd take a stab that it shows the community as a whole is warm and supporting, but that there's a divide between those happy to display snaps of things which bring them joy in their everyday lives, and those who shoot on a more 'serious' level, constantly seeking technical advancement and creative improvement.... I'm not sure how well I've worded all that but hopefully the jist of what I'm saying comes through...

Adam

.... oh, and in answer to the title of the thread... yesterday ;)

The last time I left some was last week, and the same goes for receiving some. I welcome constructive feedback but it is time and image dependant as to wether I put my 2¢ in. I too use sitemail for a major critique.

Quote - T I too use sitemail for a major critique.

Must be a Moderator thing  LOL.. ...

I tend not to comment on work that does not appeal to me in some way, be that compositionally, light/shadows, impressive landscape, style ETC. This often means that people who try to get return comments from me will just eventually ignore me and stop leaving comments on my photos, which is exactly what i want, i'm sure that leads some people to think of me as anti-social, but I'm not, i just can't be bothered to play silly games !
I also tend to avoid commenting on any persons work when i know they are one of those only after a 'return comment' because i just cant bring myself to say i love something when i don't. You find there are way too many people here who ignore you because you failed to comment on their last upload ? These people don't necessarily look through the gallery at photos, they look at names, which is not what it's supposed to be about.
I am not at all competitive about my photos, i am not after 24 comments and 6 favourites. I prefer it if people only comment if they truly like my upload and if not then either leave a decent crit or simply do not comment at all.. This is 'Renderosity', not 'Facebookerosity'.

And yes I'm sure people do leave Renderosity for these very reasons.

Kind regards.. Shaun

Very interesting tread/subject Joe.

I did yesterday but before I did I checked make sure a person allow critiques and sugestions. I have little knowledge what and how with photograpy so I have to be careful not to be too smart without any backup behind me. Normaly I look at a picture and will say what would work for my taste better to like a picture more.

Recently I get to the habit to sitemail to the person what I find "wrong" on the picture. ( leaning horizon, dust...)

Many photographer here happy shooters. Even if I would mention something about a picture, will not change or help their way to shoot or composing a picture next time. They here for a good time not for learning. So " let them" have a fun time.

I do get a few advise but wish I would get more. I am happy if I read a comentor highlight what is good or bad and what grabs his/her attention by looking my upload.

seeya  Tunde

I received some on one of my last posts.

There are a few member I will leave some with..because I know they appreciate it.

BUT....

because of my duties here..I don't get to leave nearly as many, or the type of comments I would prefer to.

It's simple a matter of time

Some good candid feedback and perspectives on this topic I must say !

I have always believed that the gallery comment system was not really geared for TRUE critique or feedback anyways.  I guess that's why RR created a forum for this purpose, as you can't have a real back and forth conversation in the gallery. 

I think I'll start using site mail as well  going forward.

Joe

"It's simple a matter of time"

Yes, that says it for me too. I do like to make critical comments when I see a newbie posting a great shot that just needs a little bit of help. Last week I directed someone to come here to the forum, because of the thread that had a tutorial about swapping out a washed out sky.

Two types of posts that I refuse to waste my time commenting on.... those shots that are just "personal snapshots" (ie, here's my car, dog, breakfast, etc.) and those shots that have more then 2 pages of comments or more already. I feel that those people that are really popular don't need "one" more comment (unless is was a critical one) and the home snapshots are not worth taking the time unless it is of special interest (which may happen once in awhile).  I do have a few "friends", people I've met over the years and have a mutual respect for, that I may break either of the two above mentioned shots! LOL :P
Hey, what can I say, I'm just here when I can be, see and comment when I can, and learn whatever and whenever I can.
Which brings me to another related subject. If I see an exceptional photo or type of postwork., I will leave a positive comment, short and to the point about what I like. If I an curious about a technique used by that person, I will email them.

Gosh, I don't know if my comment here is worth two cents, but there you have it anyway!

WE can try to constructive critique thread here again..if there is interest..

I am not sure that we need a specific thread for that. Threads of that nature seems to lose steam after a while when we force their existence. Perhaps a way to go forward is to somehow make it better known that the Photography Forum is here FOR constructive critque and to encourage members to take advantage of it. Better yet (IMHO) would be a forum/gallery dedicated solely to images posted for critique, but I am not sure how we would go about that. Another option would be to have some sort of eye-catching graphic that appears next to images in gallery when constructive critique is desired. Obviously the current notation for feedback is not given much noticed by most gallery browsers. Just thinking out loud here...

Just don't think this site is the place for Crits. That has its pros and cons. Good to be inspired by nice comments. But a bummer a lot wont know how to correct things they do wrong over and over. This just isn't the place to look for that kind of thing.

I do give crits from time to time, but worry about how they will be taken. I am careful to always say they are subjective and based on my personal pref. And often use a lot of "Sugar" in my comment with it to make up for the crits.

I love constructive criticism and dearly wish I received more of it.  There have been times when I've posted something on my gallery and wondered if I should have and then everyone gives me high praise for it and I'm thinking "hmmmm...." hahahahaha!

I don't see anything wrong with the praise, in the sense that it is exactly that which keeps me posting - it boosts my morale enough to want to share more with everyone who looks.  But I have to admit, there have been times when I've felt that what I have posted has indeed had room for a bit of critique!

I received some constructive criticism for the first time the other day and I was so grateful, I sent the guy a site mail thanking him :-)  I'm a total amateur - NEVER had lessons, never learned anything about photography, so I soak any input up like a sponge :-)

I have to admit, though, I struggle to criticize others - but mainly due to the fact that I feel I am such a novice at this, I have no room to speak :-P  So, I just keep quiet...

As someone who barely knows what I am doing, I don't leave constructive criticism...  But, I would accept it left for me, because I am eager to learn and make a better photo. 

~Melinda~

I have also been soft on constructive criticism lately.  I used to do more, with a gentle approach since unless a glaring technical problem the subjective nature of it all gets in the way.  As with Bobby and some others, I rather use site mail for a crit and try to provide solutions with the crit.

I suppose in the last year I have provided less criticism and opted to simply no comment. That is not fair to the photographer and I shall try to overcome that in a kind way.

I am perfectly capable of making mistakes on my own and realize that.   I also know this is a wonderful learning site when we go for that.

We do have a

Critique forum

and a

Critique gallery

Both seem kinda slow to me..

I do like Korts idea about an eye catching graphic to denote the desire for that type of comment

To be honest, if I'm looking for a real critique of my stuff, I post the image in the appropriate forum and ask for one.  I've found that its the best way to get an in-depth crit.  'Cause even if you ask for one in the galleries, you'll still get a lot of the 'This is great' comments.

Mike(SFGfx), I believe your current thread on "Vertical or Horizontal is living proof of  what you just said.  Ask here and you will always get replies on an image.

There are newbies who honestly do not know their photo can be  lot better with simple means and once in a while I do sent a crit to them, such as cloning out a power line, etc.     Tom.

I love the honesty coming out here. I am also very cautious of giving critique, mostly because I fear a backlash of some sort. Having said that I would also easily send a site mail and raise my opinion. Most of the times it led to a mutual understanding and trust we didn't share before thus  avoiding the person to feel vulnerable.

I invite for critique in my notes below the image, that seems to work quite well and I did get some today on my upload after asking. I had so many pics I wanted people to advise and raise opinions but posting a lion is a sure way of negating all critique and in its stead one only gets oohs and aahs. Overall that is not bad I am not complaining.

Excellent thread Joe.

I am cautious of giving heavy criticism openly, so I've done the sitemail thing ( and I'm not a mod), it does depend a little on the attitude of the poster. If the poster clearly asks for critique then I will do my best to be as constructive as possible.

Must also be said that most of the other forums I visit have a different area for those actively seeking critique.

I'll also say that any of my images are open for critique, IMHO it's one of the ways for me to get better.....

I've always maintained a "i'll say what i see" policy when viewing photos here.  I'm sure many people here may have received such from me although i apologise for being rather inactive over the past few months or so...

The thing is that there are a fair few people who are here for the "community" aspect of photography and they couldnt really care less if a central composition would have been better shot if the camera was pointed slightly to the left, or something similar... so sometimes i find it difficult to judge if a person asks for feedback and really wants it or is really asking for an ego rub...

Give me (and others who want constructive feedback) hell is all i can say - as long as you can "defend" your reasons then that is fine...

PS - i tried the "i only want critique" option for a while but it doesnt change much as most people dont use it so commenters arent used to seeing the difference in the comment box... a change maybe? instead of a white background for the box a coloured one for "critique resuested" or something?

I love the idea of having an eye-catching clue for an image where serious critique is requested. 

Perhaps even a badge or colored strip on the thumbnail that's then repeated in the comment box?  Something obvious that stands out would be good.  I NEVER look to see if people want constructive or only happy comments unless I'm feeling moved to give a crit.  When someone asks for crit, I do what I can. 

From time to time I specifically request feedback and contstructive crit, and get a bit frustrated by the lack of response.  I'll admit, most of the time I'm just posting things I like, stuff I consider pretty or interesting or whatever.  But when I'm trying to learn something new, I'd love to hear things like "you could reduce the grain by setting such and such a setting somewhere between this and this."  I don't know much about photography from the technical side, and the camera I use has its limitations, so I just sort of learn as I go.  Reading a technical article about how the camera works will go right over my head.  Learning some specific little thing is what moves me forward.

Like Ronnie teaching me about low light photography.  I didn't know how to do that.  He told me one or two things, and now I'm sure you all wish I'd just stop!  LOL!  But I DID learn something that allowed me to advance my skill level, even given the constraints of my camera.

So if you guys see me asking for constructive feedback ... please! ... I'm serious! 

Once I posted a picture and somebody commented on it in a way that made me think that the title doesn't suit the picture, so I went ahead and changed the title. And after that I saw that people's comments were more appropriate to the idea of the picture.

Sometimes  I leave feedback on images that amazed me in some way and I try to specify what particularly I like. More often I just enjoy a picture and it's hard for me to pinpoint the reason, so I just exclaim.
There are instances when I see an annoying photoshop effect or other quality that I don't like -- but I see that an author is really into using it throughout his/her collection, in that case I just ignore that author -- that's a matter of taste.

Another matter of business when an author is asking  for constructive feedback... but I haven't seen those often.

Telling folks what you "like" is good. I like to know if something I have done and feel good about really works for others.

 Constructive criticism may  address positive or negative qualities of the subject. 

I finally got a problem with my images pointed out to me. and i was so thankful for it ;)
he told me my colors are a bit over saturated .. and I thought finally the truth lol
my computer colors seem dull on it. when I look at my stuff on friends computers . wow the colors are way over done and I have known this for awhile now. but cant seem to fix it on my computer.

and no one has ever made a comment about them being over done. its always been nice work bravo 5++ and  so on. I value the nice man that pointed out the colors being off more then any comment i have gotten ;-)

I want honest feed back. even if i only get 2 comments all day if its honest feed back ill be happy as can be ;-)

now this dont mean everyone run to my gallery and pick apart my images at once my nerves can only handle 2 a day hahahaha
Miranda

I love receiving real critique; I have received many excellent suggestions which I have incorporated (to the best of my limited abilities) from that point onward.  I hope it's helping me improve.  It's also nice to get some "wow!" compliments, as it makes me think that I am getting better and encourages me to keep on working.   I'm often surprised at the shots that get a big response when I didn't feel it was particularly good, and I try to find what worked for people so I can learn.  And I'm also often surprised that some of the shots I thought were great didn't get much response.  I do find it annoying to get the "canned" comments which seem to me to mean that someone hasn't really looked at the image.   I have given some critical suggestions, but not as often since I don't like to complain if I can't give advice as to how to fix the problem, and I don't know enough.  I have used sitemail for a few of the most critical suggestions. 

Very interesting thread, good discussion and many valuable points.

There is one point that I'm missing in some way or another, and that I would like to throw into the debate.
A lot of the replies talk about improving, getting better, growing, approval, etc. But all that seems to stand in relation to what I would call the 'cosmetic' side of photography: composition, colors, tones, general appeal, focus... all very valid and 'important' points when it comes to evaluating photographs.
But the one thing that I value more than all the others in an image would be 'truth'... translate that as 'individuality, personality, honesty and sincerity'.
Somehow I feel that, even if you managed to get all the cosmetic aspects right, it was all done pretty much in vain if you somehow failed to achieve that one last point: truth. I'll try to give an example from experience:

On an other site, I posted a photo in which I deliberately did everything to make the image appealing to a broad audience. Sometimes, after a period of not getting much interest for my usual images, I feel tempted to do that... I payed attention to all the 'cosmetic' aspects, and at first it seemed to pay off: the first comment said that it was one of the best winter scenes to grace the site in a long time. But here comes the point: the second comment just literally said: "You want my opinion? This is sooo not you, Geert..."
Both comments were, I think, sincere. But the second one was all the more valuable, because it said so much more about the commenter's appreciation for the sincerity, individuality and honesty displayed in the other images that I had already posted on that site.

Morale of the story:

Cosmetics are fine. They can help you get somewhere. But when you get there, it helps to have a foundation that you're confident about, so the cosmetics don't fall off... ;o)

The second comment...oh my, very powerful words for any author to read.

"This is sooo not you, Geert..."

Long time ago in the art school our "painting" teacher used to tell us: "if an artist had found his/her style -- consider him/her dead (as an artist)..."
Constant search for something new is a true creative process. Pleasing audience is not such a bad thing, and if it doesn't become THE ONLY GOAL, it could bring you some new turns and angles in your creative process, it can bring you closer to your actual audience.
A searching artist doesn't promis the audience one style, but promises to be true to constant creative search (even by making mistakes).
I know this is a bit off the subject of this thread -- just wanted to comment.
Thank you.

So true Andrei, I couldn't agree more about 'style' and (or against) a constant creative process... Also, the more truth and sincerity there is in an artist's work, the more he/she will be recognized as such in all the different styles throughout his/her creative process.

  Creative process! Now there is something  worthy of a science!  Linus Pauling was once asked how do you create such theories to which he replied  "One must endeavour to come up with many ideas — then discard the useless ones."

"... worthy of a science" !????

As if science is something absolutely superior that art has to look up at, and measure itself against... And as if we don't have enough artists that we have to quote a scientist. WOW!...

Do you dismiss science as somehow below art!  Creative thinking was more what I had in mind and that Linus Pauling was as it happens one of the greatest scientists.. I  think the logic in his statement was self evident.  We may often go off in a tangent and then realize that going back to what we did before was better.

-- Do you dismiss science as somehow below art!

I really do. Especially today, when "science" and "scientific" became such garbage words, and if anything is not "scientific", then it's just not right. Including art! That's why I reacted the way I did in my previous statement --  I am just tiered of  "science in art " talk. :)
Besides that I absolutely agree with what you and Linus Pauling said, and he WAS a great scientist. :)

Sure I agree Science makes no room for intuition and such like, but then maybe it does when the apple bounced off Isaac Newtons head! The penny can drop... Or is it just lateral thinking or just part of the cognitive process.

But the great intellects do offer us some great insights into many other facets like the arts, and vice versa. We can learn from all disciplines..

-- We can learn from all disciplines..

I agree. Learning and refining our intuition in the process...

I have to enter into this discussion.  Having been a scientist for most of my adult life, I have to point out that there is a HUGE degree of creativity in science, at least within the areas of science I have pursued.  Until a little over  a year ago I was a reproductive scientist, which was a fairly new arena when I entered the field in 1983.  This meant that much of what has now become "standard practice and proven science" in  the field was, at one time, the result of someone's "intuition" and vision of how to achieve the desired results, my own included.  To me, that's the same thing as art, and maybe it's no coincidence that the acronym for the field is ART - Assisted Reproductive Technology.   Yes, there was real science involved, but you have to have an idea of somewhere to start looking, and that's often been REALLY creative.   I don't believe in harsh black and white opinions.  There are too many shades of gray--look at some of the best "black and white" photos!  Science bleeds into creativity, or we would never have had the development of the whole photographic process; and creativity bleeds into science, or the many thousands of babies I've personally assisted into existence likely wouldn't be here.  I don't think this is something we need to waste our energy arguing about!

There.  That's my two pennies worth!

Two GREAT! scientists/mathmaticians Mandelbrot and Julia, nip over to the fractal pages to see "science in art"...Here endeth the lesson.