Hi, I have been reading up on this inexpensive laser scanner setup with the idea that it may give some good results for starting points for the making of figure meshes and objects for Poser. From what I can tell, from what I have read, it is a pretty good scanning method considering its low price. But it also looks to me like the mesh objects created will be high poly, and may need to be reduced to get acceptable OBJ's for Poser figures. Very interesting anyway.

Have any of you tried it befor? If not I am going to and I will let you all know how it turns out.

Can I post a link here for people to check out what I'm talking about? It's the David Laser scanner.

cheers,

Mike

Try the trial and see how it works.  You'll need a camera and laser though.

IMO, that may be great for making certain things and very not-so-great for making figures for rigging.  If you have a good 3D program that you can either extract topology or duplicate it in order to get a nice, orderly mesh, then you might have something.  Even then, all the work you do scanning a real object and converting it to a rigged mesh may take longer than just trying to accurately model the object.

The best bet is to look at some rapid-prototyping forums and ask around there.  After all, that's basically very similar technology - It's just backwards.  This is converting a 3D object to a mesh.  Rapid prototyping converts 3D objects to solids for use as molds, prototypes, mechanical guides, etc..   But, people familiar with that tech will probably have the best answers.

IMO, I wouldn't invest the money in it for creating Poser figures.  What are you going to scan?  I suppose you could scan a person if they showed up at your studio everyday for a year and you managed to eventually scan every square inch.  (Depending on the resolution you wanted.)

I've seen similar tech in use to scan important artifacts and such so they can be reproduced or otherwise archived.  For that kind of thing, this would be great.  Making props.. possibly.  But, the work it would take to get a usable mesh suitable for rigging is probably too great.

PS - There IS software out there you can use to create figures from photographs.  You might be better served there.  Facegen (the Customizer program) CAN do whole-body conversions.  The methods to use are in their manual/faq.  But, it's not cheap software.  Weigh the cost of David Laser scanning versus the cost of Facegen and Facegen Cusomizer along with a steep learning curve for both and see which you think is the better option.

**Morkonan: I think you may be right for rigged figures that have to bend I'm not so sure there would not be more work involved in redoing the topology from the scanned mesh than just modeling it from scratch.
But this type of thing has always interested me and considering it is getting high marks from even some pro's in that line of work and the software is only 199.euro for the pro version and to build the scanner only about 200. It sounds like something I can try without  putting out 50-100K. I have a very good cannon that has the required capabilities for the scanner, which I'm thinking might make better scans than a web cam.
Also You can make yourscanner any scale you want so for human sized figures I just make a larger calibration backdrop.
I don't know but it sounds like something that would be fun to play around with and see what it will do. I find this stuff fascinating. It must use some sort of algorithm to produce the mesh, i wonder if someone might not be able to produce an algorithm that would produce a more rig suitable mesh?
I was thinking someone else here may have already tried it and could give some imput?
**

 I tried David a while ago, it gives good results. But the scanning process takes time, and you get only one angle from one direction, so getting a complete human scanned could proove to be a but tricky.

The results are too high-poly for rigging. But some modeling packages have tools for doing a retopology quite fast, for example Silo's topology brush and it's Polygon creation tool.

You don't need the pro version for first scans, and a line laser for housebulding isn't that expensive. If you want to scan a whole body, to my experience a ultra-fine line ien't really important. 

Thanks bantha:

I figured someone here had probably tried it. Yes I noticed that you get only one angle at a time. There was a section on shape fusion in the manual for combining the different angles. I will have to check out silo and it's tools for retopo. Right now all I have is Max, ZBrush and 3D Coat. 3D Coat has some good retopo tools but not very fast.

I hope this works well, it would be a great resource to have various full body scans of various different people. Maybe I can hire some of the college students to stand still for me for awhile:) Even just for shapes to build on. And scans of hands and feet would be good too.

Also I was wondering if I might be able to find anatomically correct scale models of various animals to scan. Cars, boats all sorts of things. It could be very usefull.

I have an idea for setting up an automatic scanner, all I would really need is a track mover like they use for some lighting :) and set that up with the laser. A dark room with asuitably sized backdrop and I should get a decent full body scanner.

Cheers,

Mike.

I think 2 scans (front and side) would solve 95% of Poser figure problems. That is,, really bad proportions.

Quote - ....I hope this works well, it would be a great resource to have various full body scans of various different people. Maybe I can hire some of the college students to stand still for me for awhile:) Even just for shapes to build on. And scans of hands and feet would be good too...

Well, that's easily solved - Get some mannequins.  They stay very still, don't complain about the low pay and you don't have to worry about them "breathing" and ruining your topology. :)  You can probably find some decent clothing mannequins on Ebay relatively cheap - At least, cheaper than hiring a model.  You can then test out the equipment and refine your techniques without having to pay someone by the hour.  Once you have the process nailed down, then you can hire a model for more realistic topology.  If scanning for rigging, it would probably be best to cut and repose the mannequin's limbs and fill in the gaps with sculpting clay.  You could also change topology a little bit using clay.  (However, I am not sure how the information for the imaging is gathered so it's possible the interactions between the differences in surface materials (clay/mannequin) would be problematic.  But, you can certainly experiment much easier with a mannequin.) 

Quote - Also I was wondering if I might be able to find anatomically correct scale models of various animals to scan. Cars, boats all sorts of things. It could be very usefull.

Online scale model companies probably have products with the detail availabe you'd want.

Quote - I have an idea for setting up an automatic scanner, all I would really need is a track mover like they use for some lighting :) and set that up with the laser. A dark room with asuitably sized backdrop and I should get a decent full body scanner.

Cheers,  Mike.

I'm not sure how the product gathers information (haven't looked at it in depth) but setting up something for that wouldn't be terribly difficult.  There are beam focusers available from any number of scientific supply houses that would use very accurate actuators to move mirrors and change the path of the beam.  Or, you could mount the entire thing on a scaffold and either move it with actuators or move the model itself to avoid putting vibrations on the laser that may cause artifacts.

If you decide to try this out, please post your results!  I'd like to see how you like them coming from a Poser modeler's point of view.

what is the optical principle that they use to calculate the cartesian coords of the scanned surface?
e.g. interference?  if so, green laser would be better than red.  no blue laser diodes currently avail.
to the public AFAIK.

richardson: I like the idea.  When working in clay in the real world I can usually get the proportions correct fairly easily. But on a computer it just isn't the same and I struggle with proportions I think this might be true for many 3D content creators. Also things like eye size and shape, most often I see too large eyes (probably stylized) 

Morkonan: That's a good idea with the maniquins. It would give me a good subject to work with till I get the whole thing set up properly and attain the skills needed. I don't know how much live models will cost but I expect it will be a bit spendy. They have some bars around here with nude dancers, and I might be able to get some of them more easily to pose.
     I will definitely post my progress from time to time. I will have to get everything together first, I thought about having the calibration charts printed up professionally to the size that I need. Then I thought it may be better if I use a photo projector to blow it up to size and paint it directly on the wall in a corner, if I can get one that is accurate enough not to distort the image. Perhaps  having them printed would be more acurate and cheaper.

Miss Nancy: I am not sure on that, except it must use the other method because the creator says that the red lazer is better than the green. I know it produces something like a depth map of a rainbow of colors. You can actually use different methods. With the recomended one you use a red lazer in a very dark room and move the lazer up and down over the subject untill it completely fills in the scan image. In another method you can use a very bright light that is focused on the subject and then use a very taught straght cord and run that up and down in front of the light so as to create a shadow line on the subject. The second method will work but not as well as the first method.
     Also you can use a movie camera to record your scans with and do a full circumference scan and then use the option to grab the scan from the video.

Well it will take me awhile to get this scanner going and work out the kinks but I will let you all know how it turns out. 

Quote - ...Morkonan: That's a good idea with the maniquins. It would give me a good subject to work with till I get the whole thing set up properly and attain the skills needed. I don't know how much live models will cost but I expect it will be a bit spendy. They have some bars around here with nude dancers, and I might be able to get some of them more easily to pose....

Look at it this way; A decent mannequin will run you anywhere from 100 to 300 bucks from a dealer.  You get very, very good ones at much higher prices. (I checked)  Check EBAY for used ones.. I didn't check there.

However, a stripper is going to cost you that much an hour or more.  Unless you can find one willing to work during the day for much, much less.  Call a modeling agency and tell them what you need as see what they might have available.  Or, if you have a college nearby, you might find a hungry college student.

But, as with all such endeavors, always have a third party or record the session.  You'll never know how someone might reinvent the events.

Quote - .. Perhaps  having them printed would be more acurate and cheaper.

You can get very decent color plotter printouts from places like STAPLES and other office/business suppliers.  (If you need color, that is.)  If you don't need a color print and just need an outline or B&W then lookup your nearest architectural shop/supply that does it's own blueprints.  These are cheap, quick solutions.  

Quote - ... Well it will take me awhile to get this scanner going and work out the kinks but I will let you all know how it turns out. 

Sweet! I look forward to reading your progress!

if red is better than green, it may be that the cmos sensors are more sensitive to red
(or IR) lite, altho IR lasers are even more dangerous in vicinity of retinal surfaces.
so they would still use the interference pattern to calculate the range, they aren't scanning
for microscopic details, the scanned object would be much smoother than the actual
object, and they would try to increase the surface displacement by upping the polygon count.

Mike if you are looking for  models, best bet is look for art school in your area, then contact an instructor there. Tell them what you are looking to do and most times they will give you a name of a student(s) and they may even offer you use of their class room so they can see it in work.

From my experience, a green laser is better as a red one, especially if you don't want to work in a very dark room. It's more expensive, too. (That's the reason I still use my €14 red "builder's shop" line laser. I did not want to spend a lot of money for the whole thing.

If a litte bit of money isn't an issue, you could do two scans at the same time, from different directions. You would need a red and a green laser at the same time, and scan from different angles.  You would need two webcams and either a really fast computer with lots of RAM, or two computers. 

There is a setup with which you don't neet the angled walls to be behind the model. You can have the angled walls directly in front of the laser, with an removable corner, and scan through that opening. I haven't tried that, but a lot of people in the David forum did, so it seems to work.

Hello

A while ago a came across some free software for MAC and PC called "Scan Z".  You can find it here:  www.brucerayne.com/scanz.html  Might be worth checking out.

take care

 ScanZ works with a fixed laser/camera setup, so you would either have to rotate the model or have a big, rotating setup for Laser and camera. The advantage is that you get all sides in one scan.

I think the setup is OK for small objects, but for a full body scan, I would probably prefer David. You need the same equipment for both programs, though, and since both are free, there is no reason not to try both.