This problem (dots appearing in a Firefly render) did not occur before installing SR3 from SM.

Anyone else have this problem?

Anyone know how to fix it ... short of deinstalling SR3?

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Might it have something to do with Screed or GL?
DPH

No, it does not make any difference.

The dots still appear in a Firefly render.

Restart computer?
DPH

What ................. again? :lol:

It takes about 5-6 minutes to boot up. :cursing:

Uhmmm...I can't tell.  I'm tryin' to connect the dots...so far I've got either a leprechaun or a bunny.

Don't have a clue, Geep ... I have the SR3 installed and don't get that with Firefly Renders

They look like bucket boundaries.  What happens when you change
the bucket size? 

That's certainly wierd!

I assume the dashes around the figure, his shadows, and the entire image are from your image editing tool, and not part of the render, right?

I agree with ockham. Sometimes bucket boundary bugs crop up in Poser. What happens if you change the bucket size, say from 64 to 32. Do you get twice as many per row and column?

Ditto on the bucket boundaries.

Call me silly if you want, I can handle it....   but are you sure these dots are not just the way your image editing tool (whatever it is) shows transparency? Photoshop uses a checkerboard pattern.

In other words, are you sure these dots are in the render itself, and not just in the way it is being displayed here?

Quote - Call me silly if you want, I can handle it....   but are you sure these dots are not just the way your image editing tool (whatever it is) shows transparency?

Or maybe you've turned on some sort of grid markers ?

The way the figure and all are outlined, it looks like a Mask or something in the Image View Software is activated.

What is the image Format and what viewer are you using?

Ditto buckets as prime suspect though I did get an interesting result when loading the dot pattern into Babelfish.

"Zeta Roxnar eat soul Poser instruction parts many"

On a guess you might want to consolidate your recent Poser tutorial threads into single downloadable formats to prevent this from occurring. Could be a bad translation but just to be on the safe side.

Quote - The way the figure and all are outlined, it looks like a Mask or something in the Image View Software is activated.

What is the image Format and what viewer are you using?

I think the outlining is to show the dot pattern in the background more clearly.

Thank you to all those who have responded.
I appreciate all the suggestions.

I will try to clarify what is happening.

Yes, the dashed lines that show where the "dots" (which are exactly 1 pixel in size) are located by using the "color selector" tool in Paint Shop Pro to pick the background color.

I changed the bucket size to 128 and the dots are now exactly 128 pixels apart.

Registry cleaner was used and PC rebooted with no change in dot problem.
**
AGAIN ! - This problem did not manifest itself before I installed SR3, i.e., Poser 7 (sans SR3) did not cause this problem.**

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

P.S. I have copied, i.e., downloaded, this image (above) from Renderosity and then viewed it in PSP and the color values for bot the dots and the background are the same as the original image in this post.

In the "I'm Glad You Asked That!" Dept, - :blink:

I use PSP 5 because it provides me with all the features and function that I need to produce my "art."

I have later versions of PSP but have found them to be more cumbersome to use, i.e., too many "bells & whistles". (which I neither need nor use)

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Hear you. So what we are seeing fairly clearly in the first image is the selection line around the 1-pixel dot, rather than the dot itself.
Are you using a post-filter set to 2 pixels or more? If so, what happens if you reduce it to 1 pixel?

The selection line around the (square) pixel was postworked and is pure black for illustrative purposes only.
In the actual image, ther is no border around the "dot" pixels.

They are just a (very) slightly different color as shown in the numerical daya above.

I believe I will probably end up just uninstalling Poser 7 and then install a fresh version of Poser 7 sans SR3.

The very slightly different color would suggest that Izi's idea about texture filtering
may be the problem.   A filtering algorithm often 'backtracks' to fill in the first
dot in the pattern, and the 'backtrack' may be slightly off.  (A rounding error, for instance.)

I tried doing a similar render and then scanned around with PSP's color picker and
couldn't find any differences, but that doesn't mean they aren't there in my picture as well.

Yup, I get that, Doctor.
I was referring to the very light selection lines (or rather pixels) surrounding the actual dots in your first image, not the thick black line in your second image.

The reason I mentioned post-filter settings is because after installing SR3 in Poser 7 I got bucket-boundary problems when using a post-filter setting higher than 1 pixel. Now I think about it, this was mainly when using the 'sinc' post-filter.

Note: I did not mean texture filtering, but render post-filter settings.

Geep.. I recommend that you contact Smith Micro. Include the Image of the Render when you do along with your System Details.

Quote - In the "I'm Glad You Asked That!" Dept, - :blink:

I use PSP 5 because it provides me with all the features and function that I need to produce my "art."

I have later versions of PSP but have found them to be more cumbersome to use, i.e., too many "bells & whistles". (which I neither need nor use)

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

You know, that's funny, I use PSP6 and I absolutely can't live without it, I mean, I have PS CS2, and tried PSP on its latest versions, but nothing beats good old PSP6, it opens almost instantly and has all the features of any now bloated editor.

So, old PSP fan here =P

Again ...
In the "I'm Glad You Asked That!" Dept, -

Which one of these do you like the best? ... And why? (in 25 words or less ... or more if ya want)

• Poser
• Poser 2
• Poser 3
• Poser 4
• Poser ProPack
• Poser 5
• Poser 6
• Poser 7
• **Poser 8 ***
• Poser Pro
• Poser Figure Artist

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

• just wanted to see if you were paying attention ... ;=]

@ the closet with rats in it

I would but if I am the onliest loneliest one in the whole wide world seeing this, I very much doubt that SM would even care.  Don't cha think?! :mellow:

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Epilog:

I have totally removed Poser 7 and then reloaded it (sans SR3) and now I can get back to my "art."
See you in the renders ... and don't get lost in the depth cueing, ha ha. ... .

I don't know if this helps, but I get the same problem when I bring in a small background image and then change the document size to larger size. It is like it is turning the bacckground image into small squares.

skee.

Quote - @ the closet with rats in it

I would but if I am the onliest loneliest one in the whole wide world seeing this, I very much doubt that SM would even care.  Don't cha think?! :mellow:

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

---

Epilog:

I have totally removed Poser 7 and then reloaded it (sans SR3) and now I can get back to my "art."
See you in the renders ... and don't get lost in the depth cueing, ha ha. ... .

I have a feeling that at least a few would care... I know one that would, all you have to do is PM me the Incident Number! (c;

Seriously, these one off issues if they do not get reported, the Engineers never hear about them and if there is an issue, they never get fixed.

"Seriously, these one off issues if they do not get reported, the Engineers never hear about them and if there is an issue, they never get fixed."

That's a good point.  I can vouch for that from the other side ... last month I finally
finished a grueling set of beta tests on my animated courseware product.  Several
of the items found by the testers were one-off or single-pixel types of errors,
and I was annoyed at having to examine them.  But one of those single-pixel
things turned out to be a symptom of a much larger and more dangerous bug.
So in the end I was happy to have such persnickety testers.

*"I have a feeling that at least a few would care... I know one that would, all you have to do is PM me the Incident Number! (c;

Seriously, these one off issues if they do not get reported, the Engineers never hear about them and if there is an issue, they never get fixed."*

@ ratscloset

I contacted SM per your suggestion and was not impressed with the response I received.

Here is (to the best of my memory) a brief transcript of what transpired on a phone conversation with SM's tech support today.

I explained the situation and suggested that the tech (at SM) could view (and read about) the problem here (R'osity) ih this thread.  I was told that s/he could not / would not view the thread here because R'osity is a "competitor" (???)
(ok, we'll leave that previous statement alone as nothing is to be gained be discussing it further.)

I explained that this (as follows) is what I do to produce some of my tutorial artwork.

********* In Poser:**
I compose the image I want to use in the Document window.
(sometimes rendered, sometimes not rendered)
Then I use the Main Menu as follows:
[menu] "Edit" >>> "Copy Picture"
(Note - this requires only 2 mouse clicks)
**
***** In Paint Shop Pro (PSP5):**
I use the Main Menu as follows:
[menu] "Edit" >>> "Paste As New Image"
(Note - this requires only 2 mouse clicks)

Now I have the image I want in PSP with only 4 mouse clicks ...
and can cut 'n paste to produce my tutorial "art."

re: getting an image out of Poser ...

I was informed by SM's tech that this *(the way I do it) * is "not the correct way to do it."
Um, even though I have been doing it this way for 7-8 years and
produced over 2,000 images using this method with no problem.

I was told that ... the correct way to get an image out of Poser was to ...
Note - I am not going to count mouse clicks here
but you are welcome to do so for your own amusement if you wish.
... do the following:

1. Go to "Render Settings"
2. Go to "Manual Settings"
3. Set shadow and other options as desired
4. Go to "Movie Settings" tab
5. Set the "Image Format" to "Image Files" (are you countin' the mouse clicks?)
   6 ...  etc., etc., etc. ... well, you get the picture, or should I say image ...
   ............................

I was, also, informed that since PSP is not a SM product, they couuld not verify the "problem" to determine that it was caused by Poser.  They do their testing using Photoshop.

[rant]

Now, I have Photoshop, also, but I will be dipped in (<<< something that I can not post here because it would almost certainly violate at least a dozen points in the TOS, so I won't say it) ...
Anyway, I will not reinstall SR3 for Poser7 to duplicate the problem and prove that it would, also, manufest itself in Photoshop.  I am sure this is true because ...

Use Poser 7 (without SR3 installed) - No problem seen in PSP.
Use Poser 7 (with SR3 installed) - Problem seen in PSP.

Nothing, repeat NOTHING had been changed in PSP before or after installing SR3 to Poser7.
So, where do YOU think the problem lies, Hmmmmmmmmm?

So, I rest my case ... It was getting pretty tired anyway. :sad:

Now, I have Poser 7 reinstalled (sans SR3) and I am again happy because
I can now continue my current class, "Introduction To Poser 7."

This is Dr Geep signing off .............. (for now)

[/rant]

cheers,
dr geep <----------------------- prolly won't be calling SM tech support again anytime soon
;=]

DG:

That is so insulting. I'm so pissed just reading about it. The last reason I'm pissed is the most important - because of this (mrrrph, mrrrphh, I have to say it) ASSHOLE, the engineers will not hear about this issue.

Believe me, the guys who run product development and product marketing know who you are, they read this forum, and they talk on it. I now have a very close working relationship with them, but even before that, they were very sensitive to my opinions about Poser and its makers. They do not like to hear me say nasty things, and this incident just made me say something nasty.

I will bring this up with the two guys in charge, marketing and engineering. We'll see what happens.

I apologize for the response you got. That was not correct. The reason I asked for you to contact and create an incident was technically, the only Support for Graphics by Phone is Sales and Installation. I am not sure why an incident was not created and passed off to one of the Graphic Tech Staff Members.

I PMd you Geep... Since I have Paint Shop Pro 5 through 9, I should be able to duplicate it with your guidance as to the steps you took, or at least figure out why you encountered it, if I can not duplicate the issue.

I also have Photoshop to see if there is any difference. When you contact by email, you can Upload your Images that you exported so I can also open those up incase I can not duplicate it.

ratscloset -

It's very nice of you to follow up that way.

On this issue, however, having Paint Shop Pro is not the point. The point is the render has individual pixels at intervals equal to the bucket size which are not producing the same color as the rest of the pixels. DG has shown us that the pixels in discrepancy are only off by one.

The overall background color should have been a consistent RGB 140, 133, 127. He found these individual pixels were RGB 141, 134, 127. Such a minor difference is imperceptible to most casual observers. However, when he used his color selection tool in PSP, it detected that those pixels were not the same color, so they were exlcluded from the selection.

If I had used the color select tool in Photoshop or Gimp it would have done the same thing. It has nothing to do with PSP, so don't report it that way.

It would have been better if Dr. Geep had simply saved the image as a file and then we could pass the file around. It would also have been better if he had saved the scene file as well.

The best way to report these bugs, DG, is to simply save your whole scene, save the render, and pass it to SM. It's their problem to reproduce it then, because you give them the exact same data to work with, including render settings.

I agree.. the PSP was more in response to Geep's Post about the issue. 

If this is something that can be duplicated, it needs to be reported. I would hate to see the issue appear in the next version because it was not reported.

I can not duplicate it personally at this time, that is more the reason that it needs to be documented.

The image is the stock image that appears when Poser 7 is first installed and rendered using all the default parameters.

Notes -
I have reinstalled SR3 to Poser 7 and ... (to produce the "Dots" in the rendered image)
I have updated my video driver to the latest version.
The "Dots" do not appear in an unrendered image, i.e., "Edit" >>> "Copy Picture"
but still appear in a rendered image.  See the .bmp image (link above).

I, also, installed SR3 to Poser 7 on another PC (#2).
The "dots" do not appear in a rendered image and do not appear in an unrendered image.
This PC (#2) has WindowsXP Media Center Edition OS*

• (which has a different display problem in Poser7)

PC#1 used to create the test image and the image above has WindowsXP Home Edition.

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Maybe you should update to Poser Pro!
DPH

  Don't have 500$

Besides, I prefer P6 but am using P7 to answer a special request temporarily.

Why did they tell you that is the way to get an image out of Poser?
That is how you set it for your render preferences.

To save out an image, rendered or not, all you do is use the drop down menu--- file/export/image--- and save where you want.
Best if saved as png.

I have SR3 and it cleared up a problem with Poser crashing all the time.
But I don't have your problem.

Hi Blu,

I still like [menu]  "Edit" >>> "Copy Picture"
It's only 2 mouse clicks.   And I've been usin' that one for, um, years. :biggrin:

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

dr geep, I never tried it that way before.
Since my P7 is open, I just tried it.
Works good but it doesn't give me a transparent background like export image does.

Which is what I do so I can import to Photoshop to finish.
When I put very many props in my Poser it crashes.
I really, really need more memory...sigh.
But this machine is at it's max of 1.5gb.

DG:

Is that why you color-select the gray part, to remove the background and make it transparent?

And, a corollary, is that why it matters that there are stray pixels?

BB,

Exactly, except that I select the background and then "invert" the selection which very nicely selects only the figure or object  which is now available to "paste" as desired into a new graphic.

However, when the "dots" don't get selected with the background and the selection is "inverted" ... the "dots" come along with the figure and get "pasted" into the new graphic and must now be edited out one-at-a-time. YUK ! :cursing:

And ... your corollary hits the nail squarely on the head !  If the "stray pixels" are on an upper layer in a comp, then they may mask part of the graphics on a lower layer. YUK again.

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Mm hmm.

OK So as a workaround (I know - more clicks) what happens if you export as PNG and load that instead. Now you have the cutout already.

I bet it's possible to write a Python script that saves the image or render as PNG, opens it, and loads it into the clipboard, then deletes the file. That would be ONE click, not two!

Quote - Mm hmm.

OK So as a workaround (I know - more clicks) what happens if you export as PNG and load that instead. Now you have the cutout already.

I bet it's possible to write a Python script that saves the image or render as PNG, opens it, and loads it into the clipboard, then deletes the file. That would be ONE click, not two!

re: ONE click

Hmmm, takes more than that to create the script, no? :lol:

Besides, sometimes I want to keep the complete (including the background) image intact.

;=]

Not that you need the workaround since you're not going to use SR3, but I found that increasing the tolerance from zero to one on the selection tool (I tested it with PSP9, which is the oldest version I have, I'm not sure if it's an option in PSP5) and it included the dots in the selection, but it wasn't enough to select the figure.

Thanks for the input Jack, I'll see if that's an option.

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Edit:  Yup, it's in PSP5 and I'll use it if necessary.  Thanks again Jack.

 I've actually had something that is a little like your promlem. Only mine doesn't happen every time, and I'm not sure if my latest update of my video card has removed the problem or not, I haven't seen it for a while - but then again it doesn't happen every time.

What I get is WHITE pixels on a render. Apparently scattered at random, I haven't checked if they correspond to the bucket size,and it's not as neatly spaced as your dots by far.

My white pixels seems to be transparent IIRC, I remembertrying to get rid of them by pasting a darker background behind the render in Photoshop. But othersise I've been blending them out. It is doable because there isn't all that many of them. But enough to be a PITA. Interestingly enough, moving the camera ever so slightly and re-rendering has solved my problem every time so far.

Come to think of it, I used to have streaks of slightly lighter color appear in my renders... it was always at the top of the bounding box that traveled across the render window, and it kind happened at random. I always postworked over them, and didn't pay 'em much mind. I haven't rendered inside Poser in a long time, so I don't know if it still does it, or this was an old problem.

There does appear to be something going on related to that render box thingy.

Just so everyone knows. The reason this appears is because the Paint Program is set to 0 Tolerance for selection. What it is selecting is the corners of the Buckets of the Alpha Channel. This is due to the improvements in Alpha Channel handing in SR3.

If you continue with the Selection in PSP or Photoshop, the dots do not come over, because they are 0 pixels.

Changing the Tolerance of the Paint Program to anything greater than 0 will also cause the display to no longer display the corners of the Buckets on the Alpha Channel.

NOTE: The output of the method used is not an Exported Image, it is a Screen Shot. The Copy Command just captures the Screen. The Export Image must be used to generate a Rendered Image.

Closing the Tear Off will prompt you to save the Image and you can save in any of the Poser Export Formats for images. These will not have the buckets on the Alpha Channel, because the Image is exported.

Thank you ratscloset ... for the clarification.

cheers,
dr geep
;=]