Is it just me, or were there a plethora of items under the Hi-Fantasy / Treasure Hunter name in the marketplace?  Suddenly they are all gone.

Cease and desist order from the raider of tombs?

Klebnor

gadzooks!  technically they were safe IMVHO but caution is always advised.  I ain't a lawyer.

Conducted a site search and not even the textures set are coming up.  Are the promo images being singled out at well?

I understand a Cease and desist letter was sent by the english game company and ALL products that had the Tomb Raider theme were pulled.   I believe one vendor is looking to repackage his set with a non-specific theme and new props.

I will carefully restrain any urge to say the obvious.

I would have expected a store to reject a suspect product, or to challange a dmca request if they believe the product is OK.

What pjz99 said.

Mark, if the people who approved it weren't aware of that character or somehow missed the similarity, then they'd have to rely on someone else informing them of their mistake.

there are still some tomb raider™ items at the other 2 big 3D marketplace sites, hence maybe the crackdown has been somewhat selective so far.

'Mark, if the people who approved it weren't aware of that character or somehow missed the similarity, then they'd have to rely on someone else informing them of their mistake'.

Lol, you're kidding, right, how could anybody working in the field of 3D have possibly 'missed' the similarity?

Well, there are at least two top vendors who offered TR ripoffs and as it seems right now all of their TR-related products have been (temporarily?) removed from the market place. While one of them clearly exaggerated the plagiarism the other one managed to disguise it more cleverly. In the latter case it's just a fantastic SP3 morph in hot pants, harness and boots. All of these items can be acquired in real world which should make it difficult for any game publisher to enforce copyright claims.

Vendor number one? Well, that's another story, I guess.
However, at the moment nobody knows exactly what has happened and I really hope this issue turns out well for everybody.

 Well.. I recently had my Severus character go through testing, then get pulled a few days later because someone discovered that OMG Severus may mean Severus SNAPE (which I NEVER mentioned in the promos or text) - and I had to rename him to Sevvie...

Bottom line: you can't be familiar with each and any game and/or fictional character. And thus, some that are based on such may slip through the cracks at first. But when notified, Rosity HAS to act upon it to CTA. It would be stupid of them to plead ignorance when everybody in their right mind would claim they "ought to know! Things are always obvious to those who are familiar with the concept in advance. And it's darned hard to prove ignorance! 

Oh and I hope the person (and I have a strong feeling of whom that might be) who reported this sleeps really well tonight...........

I gather that the use of a name is often more sensitive then the likeness - in case of a Tomb Raider and other highly recognizable, copyrighted, trademarked etc. names.

At least that's the advice I was givem when doing Aeon Flux lookalike costume, by request. Likeness is okay, but don't use the name.

When did imitation cease to be the sincerest form of flattery?

Put another way, does the owner of the Raider of Tombs franchise really feel that images similar to their character, created by hobbyists for their own enjoyment, threatens their economic opportunities?

Seems odd to me.

Klebnor

Quote - Lol, you're kidding, right, how could anybody working in the field of 3D have possibly 'missed' the similarity?

Dunno, but I thought I'd give them the benefit of the doubt seeing how I don't know the full story.  Maybe they don't play videogames or missed that series.  I haven't played star craft so I have no idea what all the zerg units look like.  All I know is there are a lot of them and they swarm.

All I know is there was a potential copyright violation, it got to renderosity's attention, and it has been removed for the moment.

Quote - Oh and I hope the person (and I have a strong feeling of whom that might be) who reported this sleeps really well tonight...........

Wasn't me, the matter is none of my business ^^  Although tbh you shouldn't really have ill will towards whomever might have reported this, if in fact anybody did, it was a bit hard to miss if you browse the market here or look around on google.  You realize you search google images for "tomb raider" and you get many links back to Renderosity's market?

Quote - When did imitation cease to be the sincerest form of flattery?

Put another way, does the owner of the Raider of Tombs franchise really feel that images similar to their character, created by hobbyists for their own enjoyment, threatens their economic opportunities?

Trademarks must be defended, or be lost.

So if you bought this will there be a refund since you are supposed to be able to use anything you buy here commercially if you want to? I may download a freebie now and then for my own use but if I buy something I expect to be able to use it commercially. Guess if it looks like a character, say from a game or movie buyer beware.

I already contacted 'Rosity in order to get a refund on all my purchases tied to the original product.
I am quite happy I never used the set in any of my work and by the looks I am more then likely also going to ask on a refund for the Nagura product. It also looks way to similar to another game character.

That's just wrong. Clearly Tomb Raider is lifted from Indiana Jones. I know it's not up to Renderosity to fight anything in court, but EA games is notorious for pulling this kind of bullying. None of the items in question were called Tomb Raider, or specifically referred to the films or game. EA games often uses it's legal arm to threaten and bully because it has money (even though it's been a lousy year for them) to intimidate many other companies and sites. If I were any of the vendors who worked on the items in question, simply repackage said items either with different outfits, or colors. The game series has used many copyrighted themes and ideas without paying or attempting to contact other original authors (creators, et. al).

Kazam

What you say about EA may or may not be true for the most part, but one thing was, they are a company that has MONEY, and probably a lawyer or 2 on staff. Unfortunately a Renderosity merchant (at least those I kno) really isn;t in a position to fight something like this out in court. The lawyer fees alone would probably be far more than the actual profit they make here. At most they are probly hoping to settle this by ONLY pulling their products.

It's a typical situation when an individual finds them selves opposing a large company or corperation, unfortunately.

I know. It's what EA is big about.... if you read it's history, they do this all the time.

The silly thing is that most of the outfits didn't look all that close to the ones in the games anyway. They looked about as close as you might come by shopping at K-mart (except for the guns, heck, K-mart in the South does sell guns).

If EA wants to put rootkits on your PC when you install a legal copy of one of their games and try to limit the number of times you can reinstall it, then they are all about money.

Quote - I already contacted 'Rosity in order to get a refund on all my purchases tied to the original product.
I am quite happy I never used the set in any of my work and by the looks I am more then likely also going to ask on a refund for the Nagura product. It also looks way to similar to another game character.

The base Nagura outfit got pulled, so that's a good plan.

Anyways I have a question about copyrights that maybe someone can help me with: when is something to generic, ordinary, or common to copyright it?  What are the standards of originality that need to be applied to something first?

I think "girl in short pants and tank top with guns" is not unique enough, personally - however the particular logo for the big part of the items in question here was hard to miss.

Actually Tomb Raider is controlled by Crystal Dynamics (Developer) Eidos (Publisher) and Warner Bros. (Owner)
I'm gonna continue to use everything I purchased commercially unless somebody wants to reimburse me for the time I've put into the dozen or so projects I have going on...
Just change the goddam font already :)

Quote - The silly thing is that most of the outfits didn't look all that close to the ones in the games anyway. They looked about as close as you might come by shopping at K-mart (except for the guns, heck, K-mart in the South does sell guns).

Nope, one of the vendors in question offered an EXACT one to one copy of the outfit of the latest TR-installment, that was only released some months ago. Contrary to pjz I do not think that you can copyright a random gal in tank top with guns - and frankly, I really couldn't care less if  Rosity-merchants get inspired by some big money productions, but you can definitely overdo it.

Quote - Contrary to pjz I do not think that you can copyright a random gal in tank top with guns ...

I may not have been clear, but that's exactly what I was trying to say - "a girl in a tank top with guns" is probably not unique enough to claim ownership of.

Ah I see pjz,  my bad ^^. I just misunderstood that phrase.

Quote - I may not have been clear, but that's exactly what I was trying to say - "a girl in a tank top with guns" is probably not unique enough to claim ownership of.

Hope you're right or I could be in trouble at my re-certification rounds next month.:lol:

Although all these products (from several vendors, when you include texture sets) are now gone, I would note for those who owned the original products (TH and TH expansion pack) that they were both updated on 1/22/09 by Pretty3D.  I believe this was to add morphs for various V4 characters.  As of a few minutes ago, the updates could still be downloaded via ones account ... haste may be in order.

Klebnor

Action Hair is gone.  Apparently someone trademarked the pony-tail.

Klebnor

http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4GGLJ_en&q=poser%20%22action%20hair%22&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

I dunno, there's that hard to miss logo thing again.

But it's EA (the release company of the property) that's probably put out the cease and desist letters. It's foolish. First, neither EA or the creators sell 3d meshes. Secondly, anyone who creates artwork inspired by their product is giving them free advertising. Thirdly, people looking at the artwork often research the theme, discover the game, and possibly buy the game. So what have we learned. EA games wants no free advertising. Let's do them a favor and ban all EA related game talk. Any artwork that happens to be inspired by such, well artists shouldn't mention or give them any credit. If EA games. Btw Tomb Raider is slowly dying because of mismanagement. A lot is due to lack of game innovation which usually any thing EA gets involved with happens to...

Speaking of which, Apple is currently attempting to trademark the work Pod. So any products with the word pod in them watch out, you may be next! I'm be sarcastic about the truth. These companies will trade mark (and copyright) themselves out of business.

jeez, there's still a buttload of linx on google, anyway.  but seriously, the tomb raider™ franchise still can expect a few billions in cash receipts before it goes extinct, thanx to millions of teenage boys who like ogling the girl and using the so-called "nude patch", which I've seen and it ain't anywhere as good as the poser gallery here IMVHO.

I agree that it's certainly the selling point. The developer studio has been struck with layoffs due to lackluster sales.

http://www.joystiq.com/tag/tomb-raider-underworld/page/2/

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=205633

The thing about games, it's actually more the game play than the look (although many developers argue this) :)

Quote - jeez, there's still a buttload of linx on google, anyway.  but seriously, the tomb raider™ franchise still can expect a few billions in cash receipts before it goes extinct, thanx to millions of teenage boys who like ogling the girl and using the so-called "nude patch", which I've seen and it ain't anywhere as good as the poser gallery here IMVHO.

QFT.

Anyways the franchise is getting a little old... time for a new one almost to fill that niche.

maybe make Tomb Raider about an old guy  instead of a young woman, and include aliens and flying saucers....    ohh wait .....

loool good one....

How about just changing the name of the products..?
Tomb Hunter, Treasure Raider.

...or perhaps: Pleasure Hunter...Tomb Trader,  lol

I think it's interesting that this happened a few months after the Treasure Hunter packs were redone.  I thought that they were treading on dangerous ground with the newest look, but figured if they made it through Q&A they were going to be fine.  Repackaging them should be enough in most cases to avoid legal action, IMHO though I am not a lawyer by any stretch. 

Is it all right to ask markschum which vendor might be repackaging his set ? 

I believe EA is trying to trademark the word Gun. being sarcastic again, no truth in that although there is a game called Gun...

Somebody said it before, I'll point it out again- Eidos owns Tomb Raider, not EA.  Eidos is being bought out by Square Enix.

The Eidos folks have been aware for over a year that certain vendors (who I myself of course patronize) had produced items that were very similar to certain trademarked properties owned by Eidos.  They were asked by a couple of folks in the Eidos Tomb Raider forums if they had any problem posting Poser fanart made using those products.

While the Eidos website/fan affairs people apparently had no problem with this, somebody in legal evidently did have a problem with it. 

The actual most recent game is by Crystal Dynamics. Eidos owns the Tomb Raider character and rights, but Eidos has been in sales talks for some time. EA games, which releases Tomb Raider (much like film studios release films they have no money spent in creation) has a big say in the Tomb Raider franchise. An example of how Eidos and EA games are marketing the games through mobile phones.... from last year

http://news.softpedia.com/news/EA-Mobile-to-Bring-Tomb-Raider-Underworld-and-Other-Three-Eidos-Games-93583.shtml

And this year
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=207439

My bad, you are correct about it being a done deal

http://www.gamezine.co.uk/news/eidos-bought-by-square-enix-$1283597.htm

Also, I was wrong to blame EA. It might have been Time Warner which owns a giant stake
http://gamerblips.dailyradar.com/story/time_warner_buys_10_million_new_eidos_shares/

Also Gun was by Activision.

BlackHearted " Irena Adventures" is gone to

Quote - But it's EA (the release company of the property) that's probably put out the cease and desist letters. It's foolish. First, neither EA or the creators sell 3d meshes. Secondly, anyone who creates artwork inspired by their product is giving them free advertising. Thirdly, people looking at the artwork often research the theme, discover the game, and possibly buy the game. So what have we learned. EA games wants no free advertising. Let's do them a favor and ban all EA related game talk. Any artwork that happens to be inspired by such, well artists shouldn't mention or give them any credit. If EA games.

Think what you would like about how "fair" it is for you to be able to use a copyrighted character to create fan art, but when it comes to a vendor or marketplace profitting off of a copyright that is another issue entirely. 

Copyright owners do not look kindly upon others profitting from their work.

Furthermore, Renderosity (or any marketplace) has a standard license agreement for the customer that grants them usage of items purchased for commercial use.  Renderosity cannot back that license up if the item sold does not have legal clearance.

Anyone who finds anything in the marketplace that might be questionable should report it.

Content creators should keep things that are fan-based as free items clearly marked as not available for commercial usage.  This does not excuse them from copyright laws, but it usually places them far enough under the radar to avoid legal entanglements.  (ie: fan-fic, fan-art, etc...)

Since people seem to think that images are somhow immune to copyright laws, let me use the following as an example.  You cannot publish and sell a Batman comic book unless you are DC comics (or somehow get permission from DC as Dark Horse once did).

Why would you think you can publish and sell a 3D morph and clothing set of Tomb Raider? (granted, shorts, t-shirt and holsters are pretty generic on their own - we can all identify the combination and we all know what was for sale since the advertising gratuitiously rode on the groundwork laid down by the copyright owner.)

That said I always liked the Tomb Raider themed stuff and always thought I should grab it up before it might get pulled... you know, for fan -art.  Damned I'm too late! lol.

I thank owners of the franchise  made a mistake in takeing the action they did . they missed i thank  An opertunaty  to use these merchents products ass publicity  tools ,  Yes i know they spend  millons of dollers to promot ther franchise and they whant qulity control of ther product. 

I thank Renderosity, could try to pitch to studios ," movie , or video games" in the creation of poser  products of there franchises , with contest , events to coinside to move  , game releases . The benifit not just fom the sale of the product but the hundreds, maybe thousands of artist, producing free fan/promo art of ther franchise whele Just An  idea
 I thank this would be a great endever that would  be hopefully  benfituial to all parties invalved.

I think that's an excellent idea 722, and a very good point about the value of the free publicity (particularly during the downtime between game releases).  They could use the help.

I think I know that Eidos has exactly one guy and one guy only responsible for world wide customer relations/fan interaction right now for Tomb Raider (they plus up a little for other games that have a launch soon, but TR won't have another game lauch for quite some time), no webmaster for their site with the ability to add new stuff, and are, as usual, sort of bureaucratically stuck in time while they sell their company to the Japanese makers of the Final Fantasy games (Square Enix).  I'm very much suprised they found the time to spank the vendors here, certainly a delayed reaction in the case of the Irina Adventuress stuff, that's been around for at least four years already.

Point of all that is that I suspect they lack the ability/vision/interest at the management level to do something that makes as much sense for them as what you described, 722.

Quote - I think that's an excellent idea 722, and a very good point about the value of the free publicity (particularly during the downtime between game releases).  They could use the help.

I think I know that Eidos has exactly one guy and one guy only responsible for world wide customer relations/fan interaction right now for Tomb Raider (they plus up a little for other games that have a launch soon, but TR won't have another game lauch for quite some time), no webmaster for their site with the ability to add new stuff, and are, as usual, sort of bureaucratically stuck in time while they sell their company to the Japanese makers of the Final Fantasy games (Square Enix).  I'm very much suprised they found the time to spank the vendors here, certainly a delayed reaction in the case of the Irina Adventuress stuff, that's been around for at least four years already.

Point of all that is that I suspect they lack the ability/vision/interest at the management level to do something that makes as much sense for them as what you described, 722.

Or perhaps they have the sense to know that they cannot control what kind of images people will create with the content and got tired of all the Tomb Raider porn being created.

Are the people who bought these knock offs gonna get their money refunded?

Here's a solution, sell everything stand alone. Sell a tank top, then sell shorts, then sell boots and so forth. Don't package everything in one bundle and make it look like someone else's trade mark. Its a shame thou, there were some clothing items I was close to purchasing as I actually wanted the revised tank top.

Food for thought