I know you can do some modeling inside Vue but do you feel that Vue should have a stronger modeling capability? I was asked this question by a colleague of mine.  As for myself I think Vue is used by more people as a rendering program than a modeler.

I do architectural models, and I need a very precise modeler.  So even if Vue offered better modeling, I wouldn't use it.  The great thing about Vue is its capabilities for landscaping very easily. 

So yes I use it as a renderer only and have no problem with it being that way.

No - I'd rather have a seperate modeling program and Vue.  It would be cool if e-on did go that route, that it would be a module/plug-in.  Then you can decide if you want it or not.

Agree with the above. Vue is a landscape program that can be used in many ways, least of all enhancing models and scenes created in other apps.

 While Vue doesn't have standard modeling tools, you can model in it. For instance: (I'm still working on this ;-)

And here's a quick kitchen counter scene all modeled directly in Vue.

Nope, let Vue do what it does best and use a dedicated modeller (it's not like there aren't any around :biggrin: )

I'd rather have Vue be 110% in the landscaping area than having to be perfect in the modeling aspect as well.

If you mean traditional sub-diviision/nurbs modeling like Max, Maya, Modo, etc, then no, I don;t think Vue needs to provide redundant modeling capabilities.  I do however believe that e-on should provide better terrain modeling tools as outlined in this thread:  http://market.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2771373 - especially the suggestions from Offrench

 I'm curious, how many of you actually model in other programs, then move them into Vue on a regular basis? IOW, it seems there are some who just create scenes in Vue using C3D or other purchased/found objects, and then there are those who mostly model and just use Vue for visualizing their model.

My big issue with modeling in other programs, is it just takes too long, and you have to switch mental gears and now remember how that other program works. And if you need architecture, you need something like SketchUp, but for a car model, then you'll need Rhino or Modo. It's all very complicated and time-consuming.

For me, I enjoy just sitting down and creating something and seeing the results. I know there are those who prefer spending longer times creating a scene and each model in the scene as well. Where do you fit in?

I do most of my modelling in Hex or Blender then import into Vue.  I quite like making things now, it's quite therapeutic (plus it saves me a small fortune :biggrin: ) and as Hex doesn't have a render engine anyway, I'm a bit limited lol.
Blender has loads of render engines as plugins but I still keep coming back to Vue

I model in Rhino and import it in VUE, the workflow is very fast.
Sometimes i have both of them open ad the same time, and when i do some adjusting in Rhino, i click save and Vue automatically asks me if i want to use he changed model.

For me a good working solution.

I would be deliriously happy if vue can... do properly what it's supposed to do at the moment:)

In principle I think it should focus on its main objectives - creating images of nature. I agree a good terrain editor is very important. I think users should be able to create plants (veg type), not just modify them a  bit as is the case now.
I think the water editor was a step in the right directions, but I'm somewhat disappointed with it, perhaps I havnt mastered it fully yet.

I model things in Hexagon - it's far from being a perfect application, but I got it for $2 so I'm not complaining. It was very liberating to be able to make props the away I needed them for the image rather than adapt the image to whatever props I can find. I would like to learn to use blender, but somehow never get around to it.
I dont think Vue should direct their limited resources to duplicating in vue the modeling tools other programs already do well now.

Actually I use Silo 2.0. But the opinions here was what I was trying to point out to my colleague.

I model in Hex and enjoy the separate and focused aspect of a dedicated modeller & dedicated renderer (although Vue of course offers much more)

It also forces me to learn good habits with file-keeping and other such 3d 'house-work', backups & optimisations and the like.

Having experienced bad habits with Poser files housekeeping its pretty ridiculous how much crap one can accumulate over time.

Vue I am not so much interested in pay-for-content unless it is reusuable or improves workflow.

I model in Hex and import into Vue for rendering.

Got to say Chipp I hope you get your Model Like a Pro book thingy there finished, it looks great and some fantastic modelling going on there :)

Jon 

I'd rather do the majority of modeling in a dedicated modeler and import them into Vue.  Like Dave I'd like tools for modeling terrains improved as I think thats a core part of what Vue does.  Plant modeling would be another area that it might be appropriate for Vue to support.

These days I don't tend to make my own models unless I have to - frankly I'm more interested in other aspects of producing a picture than spending a month making something that I can acquire for a reasonable price.

Definitely not ... Chipp has led the way in stretching Vue's modelling capabilties to the max, but as a strategy Vue should continue to concentrate on its own niche, and do it better than anyone else. There are plenty of competent modelling solutions and many ways to get those models into Vue - no need to reinvent the wheel.

I model in Cinema4D, and render in C4D using Vue environments. I just got 7.5 xSt, and I love it. Before I brought my models from Cinema to Vue.

If E-on added modeling capabilities to Vue the price would probably be on pair with 3D Studio .

In general, I prefer to have several specialized tools, each doing ONE thing WELL and a clear workflow to put things together so I am fully with ArtPearl (we use the same toolset). As another example, should I outgrow Hexagon polygonal modeling capabilities, I would not ask for NURBS or organic modeling in Hex, but buy MoI and 3DCoat.

W.r.t. to being able to stretch tools... well, nobody prevents you to create OBJ files with Notepad, it just somewhat "inefficient". In the POV-Ray world, you model using tools which are just above the level of what I have just written: the snag is the development time (once upon a time there was a thing called Internet Ray Tracing Competion, which was mainly followed by POV people and the 2 month round time was barely sufficient for one image).

Bye!!!

Let me disagree with everyone and say YES I wish they would add real modeling in Vue. It wouldn't need much either, mostly a vertex / face / edge manipulation mode, and some basic tools like extrude and such.

Vue has such great material abilities, and you can already do so much with primitives and booleans and such, it would be nice not having to go back to Sketchup and then export any small piece I can't do in Vue.

Chipp:

I want to know how you manage the round corners of that table with just Vue...

I model in MoI and do the rest in Vue. It would be nice to see more control over the terrain editing as has been mentioned, the new materials painting in there from 7.4 is a great step in that direction. Generally I model things that are fun and buy things that take either more time or tools that I don't have myself yet. Certainly I too would like to see the ability to do plants entirely rather than being limited to adjusting from existing types. That may be a sales strategy on E-On's part though so I don't expect to see it any time soon.  They should definitely continue to concentrate on environmentals though, that's their strong point and why I came to the program in the first place.

For anyone wanting to model in Vue I highly recommend Chipp's inexpensive and quite handy set of modeling tools for Vue.

Vue Tools, Grid modeler and AltTerrain modeler are all invaluable parts of my toolbox.

Vue tools is great for not only modeling with primitives but is great at object and scene assembly.

Grid modeler is also good for making maps for use in programs outside of Vue.

And Alt Terrain is great for turning terrains or the text editor into models and objects.

Because it seems that Vue loves it's own stuff best, there's something to be said about modeling with Vue's primitives and metablobs. They take displacement and hypertextures quite well. You can actually model with hypertextures if done correctly.

But the other kinds of modeling I would leave for other kinds of modelers.

I think Vue should remain a staging application.

That was my 2 cents but it's gone up to 4 because of inflation.

:)

M

Quote - Chipp:

I want to know how you manage the round corners of that table with just Vue...

That's just a simple eps outline created in the free open source Inkscape. It's loaded as an eps outline in the text editor and a very small chamfer is added around the edges.

The chair rungs are made from a dingbat font which has the concave areas (might be WebDings font?) and some cylinders for legs. The back of the chair is a parenthesis text object. The faucet is a simple metablob. The base is another round rectangle eps, but open at the ends, so the sink will fit through.

I have a bunch of standard eps outlines in a library which I can use to create a variety of objects. Most of the bowls and vases are also created this way.

Thanks to everyone for sharing their opinions here. An excellent discussion. My own two cents is that a very very basic modeller inside Vue - just some vertex modeling, extrude, the ability to add or subtract polys - would be nice. But if it adds too much to the price, or creates too many cans of worms, then I can just play with hex or Silo for my modelling.

Well in the future a basic vertex modeller maybe nice, but I'd much rather Vue improves as a SCENE creator and renderer. :)

I can do fantasic (but polygon heavy) models in Rhino, and that's a pretty complex app (though simple to use thank goodness, ehhe). so i'd rather the E-On techs work on adding particles, terrain improvements, ability to use external renderers in ALL versions of Vue, etc.

Jeez!  Chip, you've made a silk purse from a dingbat!  :)    I use Wings3d and Poser for the objects and people and then use Vue to combine them .  I think E-ON needs to stick to that which it does best.  (although I gather some would disagree with the phrase "does best")

7.4 runs much slower on my computer than 7.21 did as far as using the main view window.  So I've had to turn off the OpenGL stuff back to their default display settings.  OpenGL worked much better in 7.21.  For now, I don't think Vue has a good enough main window to handle modeling work without severe slowdowns occuring.  I'm not even sure what kind of displays the main window is optimized for.

I do wish it had a simple version of mesh, nerds modifications. Maybe not as complicated as 3d max or maya.
It would be great if we could pull and push terrains and make over hang with points and mesh.

I spent  a long time just trying to figure out (still am) a way to make over hang of breaking waves: www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php

It would make life so much easier :)

Bijan

One problem with adding more modelling tools to Vue is where do you stop ?
If you get the ability to smooth or edit meshes then how are you going to adjust the UV maps if there are any ? does that mean that Vue will at some point need a UV editor ?

Exactly, Frank. Once Vue has some modest modeling tools, soon they won't be enough. So you either need Vue to have a complete toolset for modeling, or another app to do it. My choice goes to the second. Would be pointless for E-on Devs to spend R&D  time and money on something widely available elsewhere, even for free (Wings 3D, Blender,...)

I think doing it as a separate add-on or module might be a good idea. You don't have to have it if you don't want.

Historically, Meshbox has almost always modeled in MAX and then do our promotional renders in Vue. We parcel out models now depending on the version, so that there are Vue versions of models, and they have some material adaptions for Vue - or even a bundled tree or plant.

Because of our relationship with Mirye, we are using Shade more and more. Vue has some native Shade import capabilities, but they are being updated to support more recent versions of Shade (you can backwards save in Shade, so those should work okay). E Frontier in Japan also sells Vue there. Shade also can import Poser models natively like Vue.

There's a great synergy between the three products: Poser, Vue and Shade. Both Vue and Shade have better renderers than Poser, so I rarely do a render in Poser (that Im happy with).

There is so much more I want in Vue that isn't modeling. Id like e-on to stick to its core competency - I just cant get that anywhere else.

I would also tend to agree that Vue should stick to what it does best as a Scene builder and let other programs do more specific work. As has been mentioned before, e-on and some other companies are having a downturn right now with the economy. For me, I would much rather have e-on focus on features of scene building and rendering than to add new model features. Also, I would like to see them stay focused on updates/bug fixes and also their Mac support with Cocoa re-write.

For modeling specific use, at this time, I tend to use Modo mostly with their great support. Also, I am trying out ZB 3.12B and both programs are much more capable for such things than Vue and I see them as two fully seperate programs each focused on different tasks.