the specular node is an old highlight trick. the blinn specular is more new and better because it has the fresnel effect.

if a light is begin a figure you get this bright edge. a rim effect.  this is hte fresnel effect from the specular. skin for example has this. the specular node doesnt have this.

so of course based on this its logical to use the blinn node. its more realistic and you can use rim lights( back lights). that way you get this dramatic lighting that you have in movies,comics,games,.....

i am now using only the blinn node for months. its more realistic. but there was always something back in my mind. something was not right.with the help of bagginsbill i always tryed to make the lighting better. i did. but something was still not right.

i think i know now what it was. lights in poser are coming from a point. they are not big objects. but the rays or light is coming from a point. in reality almost no lights are like that. its almost always a big surface. and i think this is what my problems were .

i dont think that the specular looks better. but the blinn node has a problem that its very bright in the middle. like its coming from a point. it is.

so thats why i always had problems when i wanted lighting like from a window or something similar.  the specular node is not always better but IMO it looks more like its coming from a big surface.

what do you think?

Could you show us some rendered examples to denote the difference between the two methods.  This is rather intriguing and I would like to observe more developing discussion and examples on the subject.

i posted two pics.

Your first problem is you are using the poser default lights.  The second "problem" is if you have a light at 100% it is supposed to be bright.  The third problem is those are previews and not an object in a rendered scene; your render settings might also be giving you some grief.  The final problem is there are values on the mat node to control how the lighting models work and you need to tweak them via trial and error.

Anyways, unless we can see your node set up I don't think we can help much.

I wonder if combining the two types of specular using a blender node with some kind of control plugged into the blending value is an option. You'd have to find a way of balancing the effects and strengths together.
Just thinking off the top of my head.

i tryed to combine them together. didnt look the best.

using the blender node? hmmm very interesting.

Quote - Your first problem is you are using the poser default lights.  The second "problem" is if you have a light at 100% it is supposed to be bright.  The third problem is those are previews and not an object in a rendered scene; your render settings might also be giving you some grief.  The final problem is there are values on the mat node to control how the lighting models work and you need to tweak them via trial and error.

Anyways, unless we can see your node set up I don't think we can help much.

1. default lights? what ahs this to do with the specular settings?
2. i think intensity will not change the shape of the specular.
3. previews are not 100% how it will look in the render. but they are still pretty good for specular IMO.

until poser 8 comes out, try pj's (or somebody's) idea, which may simulate the fx of an area lite: an array of spots with narrow angle, nearly contiguous to each other, equidistant from plane of illum. object, and pointed at object (as a group, not individually) by pointing them at something very far behind obj.  one could also try an area lite using a posersurface with GI activated, but users seem unwilling to try GI in poser until the next version.

Quote - > Quote - Your first problem is you are using the poser default lights.  The second "problem" is if you have a light at 100% it is supposed to be bright.  The third problem is those are previews and not an object in a rendered scene; your render settings might also be giving you some grief.  The final problem is there are values on the mat node to control how the lighting models work and you need to tweak them via trial and error.

Anyways, unless we can see your node set up I don't think we can help much.

1. default lights? what ahs this to do with the specular settings?
2. i think intensity will not change the shape of the specular.
3. previews are not 100% how it will look in the render. but they are still pretty good for specular IMO.

1.  The default lights, much like the rest of poser's default settings are sub par.  Likewise bad lights to begin with will product bad results.  So if you used the default lighting nodes of course they won't always look like what you are after.
2.  It will change how much light is reflect back and the overall size of the area that shows the highlights.
3.  Still, a preview is not a final item under real render conditions nor does it show your set up.

1. you said default lights. not default lighting node. so i agree with you now.
2. if the light intensity is lower then the specular will be lower. but it will nto change the shape of the specular.
3. in the preview you an see how the specular shape will look IMO.

But by playing with the node settings to bring the two effects closer together in some respects, the real differences between them become much more apparent.

On the left is Specular, on the right is Blinn.

There is one infinite light (left, behind camera) and one point light (centre, beyond the spheres). I used the Front camera.

I'm sure bagginsbill has mentioned these differences in the dim and distant past, perhaps as long as a couple of months ago. :O)

default settings? who was talking about default settigns? 

I was. In my post I wrote "default settings". You read it there.
I never said that's what you were talking about.

where is bagginsbill? :) 

Really busy with Poser 8.

touche he he :) 

Looks like you're on own for awhile, ice-boy.

it looks i am he he :)

I don't have time to try experiments, but here's a suggestion.

Use both a Specular node and a Blinn node.

Use an Edge_Blend to blend between them, with the Specular connected to the middle part and the Blinn connected to the edge part. Try various settings of the falloff and see what happens.

I suspect that may look strange, though, because it will probably make the specular node effect asymmetrical.

These nodes are just simple wrappers around low-level RSL constructs. The thing that was not promoted to Poser Nodes was the lighting loop. If we had a lightling loop node that called the things connected to it multiple times, once for each light, and added them together, then I could make any kind of specular I wanted, and also a cheap SSS. Damn it.

Maybe you can add a lighting loop suggestion for the Poser 8 team if they are still taking ideas.

Mmmphhh can't talk - I'm bound and gagged as it were. Otherwise I'd be happy to discuss the discussion. All I can say is I wouldn't count on something like that making it in P8.

thanks BB. i will try

Quote - Mmmphhh can't talk - I'm bound and gagged as it were. .

Plus in other threads you have said repeatedly you have been biting your tongue a lot.

A.) Even if not required to communicate here, I hope you still have a tongue left when P8 is released for personal reasons.
B.) Bound and gagged...reading between the lines it would appear an elaborate leather shader might come as part of the P8 package.

Just don't beat yourself up to much BB. We all appreciate your effort to bring all of us a better product. Thank you very much.

maybe the blinn node doesnt work with GC? because it was made before GC was added to poser.

Nodes don't care about GC - nothing is changed.

The node does a calculation and produces a color which is just 3 numbers.

GC happens at the end when all these numbers are assembled into a final picture color.

aha ok. thanks

i have a tricky question. it has something to do with scripting.

lets say i have 3 balls in the scene. all of them have the blinn specular node. lets say one of them has the eccentricity 0.2 the other 0,4 and the third 0.6. so different size.

could we use a script to change all of the blinn nodes at the same times? to change the eccentricity +2 or +3 and -2 and -3. so could we make every blinn node in the scene smaller or bigger. but not with the same settings. only add a number or take a number.

you know what i mean? 

Please, could you show a material room picture or two? Some of us are less knowledgeable about into where nodes should be properly plugged. I, for one, am a very visual learner, and the pictures that people show of the material room are vey instructive to me.

Thanks :)

lmk

Into which channel(s) on the root node should the blinn node be plugged?

Thanks,

lmk

The answer is yes, it can be done.

Now who will do it? I don't have time. ;-) Sorry.

ohhhh nice.

now i can make a wide specular for the clouds or a window. then if i have a candle or a littel spoitlight i can make the specular smaller.

 If you still need it tomorrow, I think I can write something quick and dirty for your Blinn nodes. Just tell me that you still need it. 

I still have to add AO to the GC wacros for Latexluv... hopefully I get this done this WE too.

ohhhh thanks.  but you dont need to rush.

bantha and bagginsbill

can you help me now with the script about the blinn ? 

in real life liths are not always the same size. some are bigger and some are not. a window is a bigger light source then a spot light. so of course the specular highlight will be bigger with a window then a spot light. in poser we can not control how big a light is.

with a script and a software like photoshop we can fake it and change the size of the specular.

see the difference? now it looks like the right light is smaller.

now lets go back in poser. on the front light i made the specular black. so when i render it out i dont get the specular from the front light.

now i turn of the whole back light. i make the front light black for diffue and white for specular. so when i render it out i will only get the specular from the  front light. i also open a python script . with the script we will make every blinn smaller or bigger.

now all we have to do is go in photoshop and combine the two renders together. the specular render goes on top of the diffuse render and the blending mode is set to ''screen''.

the difference

the scripts are from **markschum
www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php

**

bigger specular

forum request from renderosity

change Blinn node eccentricity

markschum at renderosity october 2009

import poser
valchg = 0.1   #  %  amount to change existing value as decimal 0.1 is 10 %
scn = poser.Scene()
figs = scn.Figures()
for fig in figs:
    mats = fig.Materials()
    for mat in mats:
        print mat.Name()
        tree = mat.ShaderTree()
        nods = tree.Nodes()
        for nod in nods:
            if nod.Type() == poser.kNodeTypeCodeBLINN:
                e = nod.Input(1).Value()
                nv = e +valchg        
                nod.Input(1).SetFloat(nv)
        tree.UpdatePreview()
acts = scn.Actors()
for act in acts:
    if act.IsProp():
        mats = act.Materials()
        for mat in mats:
            print mat.Name()
            tree = mat.ShaderTree()
            nods = tree.Nodes()
            for nod in nods:
                if nod.Type() == poser.kNodeTypeCodeBLINN:
                    e = nod.Input(1).Value()
                    nv = e +valchg        
                    nod.Input(1).SetFloat(nv)
            tree.UpdatePreview()

print "Done"

smaller specular

forum request from renderosity

change Blinn node eccentricity

markschum at renderosity october 2009

import poser
valchg = -0.1   #  %  amount to change existing value as decimal 0.1 is 10 %
scn = poser.Scene()
figs = scn.Figures()
for fig in figs:
    mats = fig.Materials()
    for mat in mats:
        print mat.Name()
        tree = mat.ShaderTree()
        nods = tree.Nodes()
        for nod in nods:
            if nod.Type() == poser.kNodeTypeCodeBLINN:
                e = nod.Input(1).Value()
                nv = e +valchg             # nv = e + valchg for direct change       
                nod.Input(1).SetFloat(nv)
        tree.UpdatePreview()
acts = scn.Actors()
for act in acts:
    if act.IsProp():
        mats = act.Materials()
        for mat in mats:
            print mat.Name()
            tree = mat.ShaderTree()
            nods = tree.Nodes()
            for nod in nods:
                if nod.Type() == poser.kNodeTypeCodeBLINN:
                    e = nod.Input(1).Value()
                    nv = e +valchg      # nv = e + valchg for direct change  
                    nod.Input(1).SetFloat(nv)
            tree.UpdatePreview()

print "Done"